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  • Locked thread
Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer
I was dumb and sat up all night writing an effortpost about Soviet cameras. That was pretty dumb but then I posted it on my Tumblr (which is also dumb) and that meant that people couldn't really discuss anything or share their thoughts and suggestions. Which was the dumbest thing ever. So, I'm going to repost most of it here and that way, everyone can chip in. Ask questions, share your stories of Communist Gold, post photos and laugh as we spend very small amounts of money on shockingly primitive camera gear.

Until fairly recently, I had one camera body, my trusty Canon 70D DSLR. It was an upgrade from a much older 350D and I was well set up for the usual camera gearnerd progression path of incrementally better bodies and a ballooning collection of glass. Recently though, my selection of cameras has expanded dramatically. Right now, I could grab any one of 11 different cameras sitting on shelves in my apartment. Almost all of these are enthusiast or ‘prosumer’ level machines and most of them cost me less than $50.

Let’s start with a bit of history and an overview of the Soviet camera industry. Before WWII, the camera industry in the USSR was not well-developed. Mostly the factories producing cameras made very primitive view cameras in field or press camera formats. Here is my Fotokor 1 from 1931.



Compared to the output of German and American camera producers of the time, it was way behind the technology curve. The Soviets looked at the new 35mm Leica cameras and figured that they could do the same. So they did. By literally copying the design exactly. Well, almost exactly. It turns out that getting largely unskilled peasants to assemble precision optics in an orphanage (really!) doesn’t work as well as the highly-trained German workforce in their lovely, modern factories could manage. So the designs were modified over time to allow for the much looser tolerances and much less complex mechanicals. The first Soviet 35mm camera was the FED, which was made in Kharkiv in 1934 and was the first of many that were straight copies of Western equipment (in this case, the Leica II).

The end of WWII put a real shot in the arm of the Soviet camera industry. A lot of German industry was in the East of the country and all of that was now Soviet controlled. The USSR gained access to all kinds of designs and patents as well as engineers, tools and manufacturing facilities. A lot of these were shipped off to the main centres of optical production in the USSR, the big camera factories at Krasnogorsk, Leningrad, Kharkiv and Kyiv all benefited from this captured tech. The Carl Zeiss facility in Jena, East Germany especially provided very advanced camera and lens technologies that were swiftly packed up and sent to Arsenalna and KMZ for local production.

It’s important to note that Soviet brands aren’t necessarily the products of different factories. Nor are cameras of the same brand necessarily made by the same company. The KMZ factory near to Moscow for example, produced cameras with the Zorki, Zenit and Krasnogorsk brand names. But some Zenits were also made at the Vibrator factory in Leningrad and at the FED factory in Kharkiv. It’s possible to tell where a camera or lens was made because factories had their own symbol that was applied regardless of the brand-name. These two Mir lenses for example were each made in different factories. The one on the left is a 45mm f/3.5 lens for a Kiev medium format camera and was made at the Arsenalna factory in Kyiv. The one on the right is a 37mm f/2.8 lens for the m42 mount and was made at the Vologda factory in NW Russia. In both cases the factory mark can be seen at the 12 o’clock position of the lens.



So, after the war, the Soviet photography enthusiast had a surprisingly wide range of options available. Copies of the Leica II rangefinder were being produced by FED and Zorki - the two cameras were identical apart from branding at first but later designs diverged. In Kyiv, the Arsenalna factory was making copies of the Contax rangefinder as well as medium-format cameras copied from the Hasselblad 1600, and the GOMZ factory in Leningrad (which had previously been known as VOOMP and would later be called LOMO) was making copies of the Voigtländer Brillant TLR and pseudo-TLR cameras under the Lubitel brand name.

While the Soviet industry relied heavily on copied Western designs at first, they certainly made their own innovations and later models deviated significantly from the original. The KMZ factory took one of their Zorki rangefinders and stuck a prism on top, a mirror in the lightbox and moved the lens mount forwards to allow for enough clearance from the mirror to make it into a 35mm SLR. That camera was the original Zenit which spawned an incredibly successful range of well-regarded SLRs.

Body Talk

The main 35mm brands and the most commonly encountered are FED, Zorki, Kiev and Zenit.

FED cameras were made in an orphanage in Kharkiv for the most part except for a time during the war when the city was under German control and production moved to Krasnogorsk and a site in Siberia. The factory was set up specifically to copy the Leica II rangefinder and rangefinders were their main product until camera production stopped in 1997. Incidentally, the name FED is from the initials of Felix E Dzerzhinsky, the founder of the NKVD (the People’s Commissariat for Internal Affairs, later to become the KGB). Think for a moment about that visual. The guy who created the NKVD put orphans to work in a factory making copied Nazi cameras. That's the kind of thing that Dickens would think up then go 'Nah, they'll never buy that' and start again. Most of their cameras used the Leica 39mm mount and usually shipped with either Industar or Jupiter lenses.


My 1974 FED 3 with an Industar 52mm f/2.8 lens.


My 1981 FED 5c from around 1979. Industar 55mm f/2.8 lens.

Zorkis were produced at the KMZ factory at Krasnogorsk near to Moscow. Just as with FED, the brand started out producing copies of the Leica II and was associated primarily with rangefinders until production ended in 1978. The product line was much closer in general layout to the original Leica that spawned it when compared to the evolution of the FED.


My 1968 Zorki 4 with an Industar 50mm f/3.5 lens.

The Zorki was such a good copy of the Leica that it’s often used as the basis for fakes. This ‘Luftwaffe Leica’ is actually a Zorki with a gold-coloured top plate and lens cap.



Kiev is far better known for their medium format cameras but the Arsenalna factory also produced rangefinders and SLRs as well as 16mm subminiature cameras, plus lenses for 35mm and medium format cameras under the Arsat, Volna and Mir brand names. The Kiev rangefinders were all derivatives of the Zeiss-Ikon Contax and the SLRs came from outer space. I don’t own a 35mm Kiev but here’s a Kiev 10 from 1965. Look at this thing!



I’ve seen several of these but the metal fan shutter blades (this is the only 35mm SLR with a fan shutter in the world), are very prone to breaking and finding one in working order is rare.

Finally Zenit. These are probably the most common Soviet 35mm cameras. Millions were produced and many were exported too. The day I brought my Zenit-E home with me, I showed it to my concierge and he said “Oh, I’ve got one of those too!” They are everywhere. They were made in the KMZ factory along with the Zorkis and originally they used the same Leica 39mm lens mount. The Zenit E, introduced in 1965 used the m42 mount and this became the standard after that point. The last 39mm Zenit was the 3M which was produced until 1970. I have two Zenit Es and it is far and away my favourite Soviet 35mm camera. It’s a real joy to use and the Helios lens that was standard on many models is a really high-quality piece.


My 1978 Zenit-E with Helios 44-2 58mm f/2 lens.

Not 35mm Stuff and Oddballs

Probably the most well-known Soviet cameras are the medium format Kievs, the 60 and the 88. These are still very popular today because they allow an entry point to medium format photography at a fraction of the price of a Hasselblad or Mamiya body. The Kiev 88 is a copy of the 1948 Hasselblad and the Kiev 60 is based on the layout of the Pentacon Six but is quite different internally. Both were still in production until the Arsenalna factory closed in 2008.


My Kiev 88. This one is rebuilt from new stock by Arax Foto. Arsat 80mm f/2.8 lens.

After the Kievs, the best known medium format Soviet cameras are probably the Lubitel TLRs. These were made at the GOMZ factory in Leningrad. The factory was later renamed LOMO (Leningrad Optical-Mechanical Union) and this is why low-fi hipster stuff is called Lomography. The cameras were originally direct copies of the Voigtländer Brillant and didn’t evolve very much from there. They were produced in huge numbers and show up regularly in flea-markets and vintage stores. Finding a good one will be hard because they were not well made even by Soviet camera standards. The bakelite casing of the earlier ones is prone to breaking and the metal parts on all models were not well protected against corrosion. Later versions included a lever and mask to switch between 6x6 and 6x4.5 frame sizes and that was about the limit of the innovation. Lubitel means “hobbyist” and these were intended as low-end, easy to use cameras. They aren’t especially easy to use however. The 120 film isn’t as user-friendly as 35mm cartridges and the focusing glass isn’t as convenient as a rangefinder window. In addition, everything has to be done manually, advancing the film doesn’t cock the shutter (or vice-versa) and setting the aperture and shutter speed is very fiddly.


I hope you like tiny control levers.

A stereo version of the Lubitel was made called the Sputnik. It was produced in large numbers in the 1950s and 60s and shows up regularly in markets. The same problems exist with the regular Lubitel however, it is prone to corrosion and the bakelite shatters easily. I’ve looked at around half a dozen or so and not seen one that was in workable condition. Also, while accepting that Soviet retro-photography is a bit gimmicky already, Soviet retro stereo-photography is super-gimmicky.


Have a word with yourself. Seriously. Even I don’t have one of these.

Kievs and Lubitels weren’t the only game in town for medium format enthusiasts. Factories in Leningrad and Krasnogorsk made large and medium format cameras of all types. The Fotokor camera I showed earlier is one such, and production of folding bellows cameras continued well after the war at the KMZ factory using the Moskva (Moscow) brand name. Mine is a Moskva 5 and can switch between 6x6 and 6x9 formats.


My 1958 Moskva 5. Industar 105mm f/3.5 lens.

The Arsenalna factory also produced subminiature cameras from 1959 until around 1990. The first Kiev Vega was a silver coloured, all metal camera that originally used the Minolta 16mm cassette then the Vega 2 and the Kiev 30 diverged from the original more and more until the cassette was no longer compatible with the Minolta 110 standard, instead you had to spool film into the cartridge yourself before loading it into the camera. Because nothing says user-friendly like having to cut 35mm film to size and then fumble film and tape into a tiny plastic case in total darkness.


My Kiev 30. I’m never going to shoot this thing. Also, yes that is a flash-sync socket on the top.

So Why Should I Care?

Here’s the thing about Soviet cameras. They are cheap, really, really cheap compared to contemporary Japanese or European cameras. The most expensive camera in my collection is the Kiev 88 which I bought new from a company that rebuilds and upgrades the unsold factory stock. The cheapest one that I paid for (some were gifts) was about $5 and that was for a working but tatty Zenit that I bought for spare parts. Mostly the 35mm cameras cost me about $25-$40 each. I have never paid more than $40 for a lens.

The cameras are mechanically very simple, which means that a brave soul with a set of jewellers screwdrivers and a lens wrench can probably fix any problems short of complete structural failure. It should mean that they are less prone to breaking but that’s actually the opposite of true as we’ll discuss later.

Despite the low cost, there is some seriously good kit available. Especially in lenses. The Helios 44-2 lenses in particular have a cult following because they are based on the Carl-Zeiss Biotar system. This has the well-known side effect of producing swirly bokeh.


black cat 1of5 by LeadyGonzales, on Flickr

Jupiter lenses for the M39 mount are also well regarded amongst vintage glass buffs and Arsat or Mir lenses are great medium format options. Some companies even offer Soviet medium format lenses with Canon, Nikon, Micro 4/3rds etc tilt-shift mounts to produce cut-price TS lenses for modern bodies.

Adapters to use M42 or M39 lenses on modern cameras exist for a few dollars each, they are just mechanical adapters with no optical elements. Similar adapters exist to let you use older Kiev lenses on your Pentacon-6 or Hasselblad mount medium format camera. And let me tell you the prices for Arsat lenses are a lot friendlier than for Hasselblad glass.



You can see my test rolls from 35mm cameras in this Flickr album.

The Downsides

Even on pro-level Soviet stuff, the quality control was notoriously poor. Sitting in a damp attic for 30 years won’t have improved it any either. A lot of the Soviet gear I look at is practically useless. Quite often I see misaligned gears that have stripped themselves, seized controls or lens elements that rattle audibly when you try and focus. Light sealing is often patchy even on cameras in very good condition. Even when they were brand new, many cameras just plain didn’t work out of the box.

There are many fairly hefty design flaws that don’t get corrected from model to model. Most Soviet cameras can be broken in a fairly terminal manner if you try to change the shutter speed when the shutter isn’t cocked for example. Also, I own about 8 lenses for m39 and m42 mount cameras and every goddamn one of them has a different filter thread size.

Almost nothing is automated. Even by the standards of their time, the Soviet cameras were generally a long way behind the curve on technology. On many cameras cocking the shutter and winding the film on are separate actions. Quite a few have no automatic film counters and none that I know of have automatic winders. Self-timers are clockwork even on newer bodies and so are slower shutter speeds. Most cameras that have integrated lightmeters at all, have uncoupled lightmeters. That means you have to set the lightmeter and then transfer the settings to the camera manually. Or you would if the lightmeter worked. Most of them won’t any more because they are selenium based and the selenium degrades after about 10-15 years. When I shoot with mine, I tend to use my DSLR to meter the scene or just guess from the ‘sunny-16' rule. On the plus side, this all means you’ll be saving on batteries.

Buying
I’m very lucky because I live in a place where this stuff is plentiful, I can browse flea-markets, the used rack at camera stores and OLX (Russian eBay) for bargains. Usually I can check it out thoroughly before parting with money and many of the people I buy from will give me a good deal because they know me. Given the quality issues mentioned above, it’s really important that you have the opportunity to return anything you buy that isn’t working. Some of the stuff is cheap enough that you might not care too much, but still it’s easy to end up with a collection of paperweights rather than working camera gear. If you’re buying by internet, make sure that you are dealing with someone you trust to honour a returns policy and that you can see the exact thing you are buying in any photos. Incidentally, you can usually verify the date of Soviet equipment from the serial number. Commonly, the serial number was 9 or 10 digits with the first two being the date of manufacture. It’s not a universal rule and sometimes manufacturers changed their serial numbering schemes at intervals but if it looks like it could be the case, then it probably is.

If you are after medium format cameras and equipment, I personally recommend Arax Foto. This company is one of a few that bought up all the unsold stock of the Arsenalna factory when it closed and rebuilt the better-made examples for a more consistent level of quality. In addition Arax installs a number of upgrades such as a mirror lock-up system, titanium shutters to replace the cloth originals and flocked interiors. They also rebuild Arsat lenses and multicoat the elements. I bought my Kiev 88 from there and I’ve been very happy with the camera and the service from the owner. Note that although the Kiev 88 is based on the Hasselblad, parts aren’t interchangeable between the two. So there’s no digital back that will fit it and film magazines aren’t compatible either.

A lot of Soviet camera gear did get exported so it’s not unusual to see more common stuff like Lubitels or Zenits in antique stores or thrift shops in countries outside the former USSR. Sometimes brand names were changed for export versions but usually these will still have the Soviet factory logos that will match the original name.

If you can buy directly in-person then take more than the usual amount of care in inspecting stuff before you buy. You’ll want to actuate everything several times to check that it moves smoothly. You’ll want to take the lens off and see what state the shutter is in and you’ll want to fire it a few times on a slow or bulb setting to see that it’s properly aligned. Lightmeters probably won’t work or will be way out of calibration. There’s not much to be done about that, maybe you feel brave enough to take your camera apart and try to fix it. Maybe you’ll just do what I do and forget that it exists at all. If you are a member of the Something Awful forums then this good-looking and extremely reliable poster will be happy to obtain and ship photo gear to you.

Enjoy your new obsession. It really is worth it.

Tell me about your Soviet gear. Or ask me about mine. Or ask me to buy some for you. Or whatever, I'm not your boss.

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BANME.sh
Jan 23, 2008

What is this??
Are you some kind of hypnotist??
Grimey Drawer
I just bought a 44-4 Helios on eBay for my spotmatic but haven't had a chance to use it yet. I also bought an industar 50 3.5 but it never arrived so I got that one refunded. It was only $5 usd though. The helios is such a cheap and fun lens, everyone should own one and adapt it to their system of choice (except Nikon :mad:)

Applesnots
Oct 22, 2010

MERRY YOBMAS

I dont do much with old manual cameras anymore but I am a total dork over old Soviet tech. Good thread. Thanks.

SMERSH Mouth
Jun 25, 2005

I've been looking at Zenits. Some of the early ones are really very nice looking IMO. E.g.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Collectible-Photo-Camera-Zenit-3-Film-Camera-Helios-44-2-58-Lens-/182064653831

Others, especially those from the 80's, are... I don't even know.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/ZENIT-412-Russian-SLR-Camera-MC-Zenitar-M2S-/252284218446

(Posting from eBay because it's where I'm looking. I don't get referral kickbacks or anything)

I've been taking apart my Kiev 4 to see what I could do about fixing the light meter. What I've found out is that I would probably have to buy another complete camera with a working light meter to cannibalize if I want to replace the parts, so I guess there's not much hope. Maybe I could get it to work with a calculator solar cell or something and calibrate it. Either way, I'll post some pictures of it later.

Interesting that another poster mentioned not receiving a lens they ordered. I placed an order with Hartblei for another kiev-60 (my arax met a sad fate) almost a month ago, and besides an email saying they were processing my order I have heard nothing. I'm hoping it will show up on my doorstep in the next week, but I'm beginning to wonder. Similar situation with the FED 2 I ordered off ebay a couple of weeks ago. That one I got a tracking number for, and the seller sent me a YouTube video showing the camera in action. I confirmed that I wanted to buy it, but since then the tracking number has never been recognized by the Ukrainian postal service website.

Ordering stuff from Eastern Europe is certainly a crapshoot. I've never had to get refunds via PayPal before, and I hope this doesn't end up being the first time.

Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer

SMERSH Mouth posted:

I've been looking at Zenits. Some of the early ones are really very nice looking IMO. E.g.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Collectible-Photo-Camera-Zenit-3-Film-Camera-Helios-44-2-58-Lens-/182064653831

Others, especially those from the 80's, are... I don't even know.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/ZENIT-412-Russian-SLR-Camera-MC-Zenitar-M2S-/252284218446

(Posting from eBay because it's where I'm looking. I don't get referral kickbacks or anything)

I've been taking apart my Kiev 4 to see what I could do about fixing the light meter. What I've found out is that I would probably have to buy another complete camera with a working light meter to cannibalize if I want to replace the parts, so I guess there's not much hope. Maybe I could get it to work with a calculator solar cell or something and calibrate it. Either way, I'll post some pictures of it later.

Interesting that another poster mentioned not receiving a lens they ordered. I placed an order with Hartblei for another kiev-60 (my arax met a sad fate) almost a month ago, and besides an email saying they were processing my order I have heard nothing. I'm hoping it will show up on my doorstep in the next week, but I'm beginning to wonder. Similar situation with the FED 2 I ordered off ebay a couple of weeks ago. That one I got a tracking number for, and the seller sent me a YouTube video showing the camera in action. I confirmed that I wanted to buy it, but since then the tracking number has never been recognized by the Ukrainian postal service website.

Ordering stuff from Eastern Europe is certainly a crapshoot. I've never had to get refunds via PayPal before, and I hope this doesn't end up being the first time.
I'm probably going to get myself more Zenits if I stay here much longer. They are really nice cameras if you can find one that works and I'd love a Zenit 3 or 4. Mostly the ones I see here are Zenit-Es with a lot of 11s and 12s too. I have seen a few of those 412s for sale but they are basically a Zenit 19 in a plastic shell as I understand it, also post-Soviet Russian cameras tend to be even worse than Soviet era ones as far as quality control goes.

I found a good guide to replacing selenium lightmeters with a solar cell on this site. You need to scroll down to the Zenit Repair Project in the left menu because this guy loves frames and a deeplink to the actual page just redirects back to his homepage. The chances of finding a replacement or donor with a working lightmeter are low.

I've never dealt with Hartblei before but, if they are anything like Arax then they build to order so it might be a week or so before your camera is ready to ship and then it has to navigate the Ukrainian postal system. My experience of sending stuff out of here to the US is that it takes about 3 weeks for it to arrive. Packages coming in from the US commonly takes 2 months or more.

bellows lugosi
Aug 9, 2003

Bumping with a low-effort post: I have a Fed Micron half frame and it's legitimately one of the best point & shoots I've ever owned.

Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer

ansel autisms posted:

Bumping with a low-effort post: I have a Fed Micron half frame and it's legitimately one of the best point & shoots I've ever owned.

Does the lightmeter work? If not, how is the fully automatic exposure managing without it?

SMERSH Mouth
Jun 25, 2005

How is FED pronounced in the motherland? Like Cliven Bundy ranting about the "fed's", like Baron Harkonnen addresses his dear nephew "Feyd" (like "fade"), or (and I don't have a reference for this one) "fee ed"

I really need to learn how to read the international phonetic alphabet if I'm going to be such a shut-in reading about things on Wikipedia.

Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer

SMERSH Mouth posted:

How is FED pronounced in the motherland? Like Cliven Bundy ranting about the "fed's", like Baron Harkonnen addresses his dear nephew "Feyd" (like "fade"), or (and I don't have a reference for this one) "fee ed"

I really need to learn how to read the international phonetic alphabet if I'm going to be such a shut-in reading about things on Wikipedia.

Fedd. It's the initials of Felix Edmundovich Dzerzhinsky which in Russian are written as ФЭД. Russian is (almost) completely phonetic in spelling so fuh-ehh-duh makes FED.

infrared35
Jan 13, 2005

Plaster Town Cop
A buddy of mine was touring the former Soviet republics right after the Cold War and picked me up a Kiev 35mm rangefinder at a market in Tbilisi. The thing is in surprisingly good condition and seems very solidly built. The glass seems nice, but I could never get the film winding mechanism to work predictably. I'd have frames with huge gaps between them and frames that would overlap, and no way to predict when it would do what. I haven't shot with it in almost twenty years; it just sits on a shelf with the rest of my small camera collection.

In the early 2000s I picked up a Kiev 88 to shoot medium format on a budget and got two rolls through it before the shutter broke and I couldn't afford to fix it.

I can take some pictures of my rangefinder if anyone likes.

bellows lugosi
Aug 9, 2003

Helen Highwater posted:

Does the lightmeter work? If not, how is the fully automatic exposure managing without it?

Seems fully functioning, I've shot slides with it and they came out great.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

My dad has a couple of soviet cameras from back in the day. One's a Zenith and the other is some sort of Lubitel or something that looks like it, it's been years since I last saw it. I remember shooting with the Zenith a bit when I was a kid, shooting fully manually was pretty fun even though I had a very basic understanding of how the exposure is supposed to work. I was particularly fond of the self-timer buzz when activated.

Unfortunately the cameras are all stuck in some storage somewhere so I haven't been able to get them, otherwise I'd be all over that stuff. How's the film/development situation nowadays?

Hollow Talk
Feb 2, 2014

mobby_6kl posted:

My dad has a couple of soviet cameras from back in the day. One's a Zenith and the other is some sort of Lubitel or something that looks like it, it's been years since I last saw it. I remember shooting with the Zenith a bit when I was a kid, shooting fully manually was pretty fun even though I had a very basic understanding of how the exposure is supposed to work. I was particularly fond of the self-timer buzz when activated.

Unfortunately the cameras are all stuck in some storage somewhere so I haven't been able to get them, otherwise I'd be all over that stuff. How's the film/development situation nowadays?

If you don't particularly care about quality and developing yourself, you can still get (35mm) colour negatives developed quickly and (comparatively) cheaply in pharmacies etc. Black & white is getting more difficult, since fewer and fewer places are able to develop them, so they will usually send them to a laboratory somewhere (there are also a few that can be developed with the colour chemicals/process, though they are not quite as good as "proper" b&w films -- Ilford makes one that is alright, though). My girlfriend's father started sending his b&w negatives to a lab in California directly, because it has become marginally cheaper than having somebody local deal with it (who would also only send it off either way). I have no idea what the situation is like for anything other than 35mm, but I presume it only gets worse there.

Pham Nuwen
Oct 30, 2010



Hollow Talk posted:

If you don't particularly care about quality and developing yourself, you can still get (35mm) colour negatives developed quickly and (comparatively) cheaply in pharmacies etc. Black & white is getting more difficult, since fewer and fewer places are able to develop them, so they will usually send them to a laboratory somewhere (there are also a few that can be developed with the colour chemicals/process, though they are not quite as good as "proper" b&w films -- Ilford makes one that is alright, though). My girlfriend's father started sending his b&w negatives to a lab in California directly, because it has become marginally cheaper than having somebody local deal with it (who would also only send it off either way). I have no idea what the situation is like for anything other than 35mm, but I presume it only gets worse there.

Develop your own B&W, you're just throwing money away if you send them off. You should be able to set yourself up with all the equipment & chems you need plus some film for under $100.

There's at least a few places here in town that develop C-41 in-house, both 35mm and 120. If you don't have any local shops that do it, Citizen's Photo in Portland OR does a good job for pretty cheap.

Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer

mobby_6kl posted:

My dad has a couple of soviet cameras from back in the day. One's a Zenith and the other is some sort of Lubitel or something that looks like it, it's been years since I last saw it. I remember shooting with the Zenith a bit when I was a kid, shooting fully manually was pretty fun even though I had a very basic understanding of how the exposure is supposed to work. I was particularly fond of the self-timer buzz when activated.

Unfortunately the cameras are all stuck in some storage somewhere so I haven't been able to get them, otherwise I'd be all over that stuff. How's the film/development situation nowadays?

All of the camera stores here that sell film will also develop it - 35mm, 120 and sheet film in both colour and black & white. One place takes a week, the other main place in town takes 3 days but I suspect that the first place is just sending a dude over to the second one with a courier bag every day.

Regarding the self-timer buzz, almost all Soviet cameras are battery-free. The slow exposures are also regulated by clockwork so you get the same buzzing sound on anything slower than 1/2s.

Helen Highwater fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Apr 21, 2016

Hollow Talk
Feb 2, 2014

Pham Nuwen posted:

Develop your own B&W, you're just throwing money away if you send them off. You should be able to set yourself up with all the equipment & chems you need plus some film for under $100.

There's at least a few places here in town that develop C-41 in-house, both 35mm and 120. If you don't have any local shops that do it, Citizen's Photo in Portland OR does a good job for pretty cheap.

Sure, as soon as a I have a bathroom big enough to do developing in. :rolleyes: Until then, it's either colour film or the Ilford XP2.

Pham Nuwen
Oct 30, 2010



Hollow Talk posted:

Sure, as soon as a I have a bathroom big enough to do developing in. :rolleyes: Until then, it's either colour film or the Ilford XP2.

Pictured: the incredibly spacious bathroom in which I develop my film



I load the film onto the reels using a darkbag in my living room, then bring the tank in here for dev. Put the toilet seat down and there's plenty of room to set your jugs of chemicals. I set the tank on that little shelf above the sink when the developer's in. Graduated cylinders get set down wherever there's room.

Printing, now that takes place in the little spare room next to the bathroom, because it needs more space (my enlarger is particularly massive), but development needs hardly any room at all.

MrBlandAverage
Jul 2, 2003

GNNAAAARRRR

Hollow Talk posted:

Sure, as soon as a I have a bathroom big enough to do developing in. :rolleyes: Until then, it's either colour film or the Ilford XP2.

You don't need a bathroom to do film developing :rolleyes:

Wild EEPROM
Jul 29, 2011


oh, my, god. Becky, look at her bitrate.
You only need a sink and maybe a single square foot of space to develop b&w. It's comically easy.

BANME.sh
Jan 23, 2008

What is this??
Are you some kind of hypnotist??
Grimey Drawer
I do it in my kitchen and load the film in the laundry room which has no windows.

voodoorootbeer
Nov 8, 2004

We may have years, we may have hours, but sooner or later we push up flowers.

infrared35 posted:

A buddy of mine was touring the former Soviet republics right after the Cold War and picked me up a Kiev 35mm rangefinder at a market in Tbilisi. The thing is in surprisingly good condition and seems very solidly built. The glass seems nice, but I could never get the film winding mechanism to work predictably. I'd have frames with huge gaps between them and frames that would overlap, and no way to predict when it would do what. I haven't shot with it in almost twenty years; it just sits on a shelf with the rest of my small camera collection.

In the early 2000s I picked up a Kiev 88 to shoot medium format on a budget and got two rolls through it before the shutter broke and I couldn't afford to fix it.

I can take some pictures of my rangefinder if anyone likes.

Yes, pictures indeed. Also, whatup?

ape
Jul 20, 2009
I've got some old soviet and former GDR stuff as well. They made a lot of great stuff, especially considering how cheap they are now.


FED and Zorki rangefinders. The collapsible lens is handy for making them fit in a coat pocket.



Having no mirror means they were able to do some wacky lens designs with the lens extending into the body, like this Jupiter 12. It's a copy of the pre-ww2 Zeiss Biogon.



Horizont. It has the lens mounted on a rotating turret, with curved film plane behind it. Similar to a Widelux, but about 1/5 as expensive. The pics are around twice as wide as normal 35mm. The viewfinder has an integrated bubble level.




Here's some East German stuff. A Praktica FX with a waist-level finder and its medium format big brother the Pentacon Six (formerly called the Praktisix).




ape fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Apr 23, 2016

DJExile
Jun 28, 2007


whoa that Horizont is wild

Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer
I picked up two new cameras today. One is a present for a friend, a really beautiful Zorki (original model) from 1952. Came with the leather case, original box and 'passport' (which is basically a list of everything in the box, serial numbers, date of purchase etc). Works like a charm and features the pull-out Industar-22 50mm f/3.5 lens. Basically it's the original Soviet Leica II copy. I was amazed at how smooth everything was on this. Lens was very slightly marked but I don't think it will affect the pictures at all. I cleaned it up and it's a lovely, lovely thing to play with. Not bad for $60.


1952 Zorki by Iain Compton, on Flickr

The other one is a shelf-sitter for now. I'll try working on it later and it may end up becoming a parts source. It's a Kiev 10 35mm SLR from 1973 and it's in pretty bad shape. It's obviously been dropped at some point, the aperture selector wheel (on the camera body) doesn't engage with the lens and the fan-shutter needs to be realigned.

It's a beastly machine though, it's very solid feeling in my hands, weighs around a kilo and looks like something from Barbarella. Physically it's about the same size as my 70D (if you ignore the handgrip bulge) but maybe 3-4cm longer.



It's an automatic camera that doesn't need batteries. If you set the aperture wheel to A, then it's basically a shutter priority camera. The selenium lightmeter provides metering in the viewfinder as well as modifying the aperture. It uses special lenses with a mount that's not compatible with any other camera system. Mine has a Helios-81 50mm f/2 lens attached. A decently wide range of lenses were available but the camera couldn't use any of the more popular m42 or m39 mount optics. This was actually the worlds' first automatic SLR, and for its time, it was cutting edge.



Despite the fact that cloth or titanium curtain shutters worked just fine on every other camera in the world, the Arsenalna engineers decided to put a metal fan shutter in the 10. It's inevitably the Achilles' heel of the model as it's super-complex and easy to break. Mine works but the fan blades need to be adjusted as there's a big gap after the shutter closes. Everything else, including the selenium meter seems to work however.

DJExile
Jun 28, 2007


drat that Kiev10 is enormous, that rules.

Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer

DJExile posted:

drat that Kiev10 is enormous, that rules.

It's huge. Here are some comparison shots.


L-R: Zenit-E, Canon 70D, Kiev 10.



DJExile
Jun 28, 2007


holy hell, you aren't kidding :stare:

big scary monsters
Sep 2, 2011

-~Skullwave~-

ape posted:

Here's some East German stuff. A Praktica FX with a waist-level finder and its medium format big brother the Pentacon Six (formerly called the Praktisix).



I rock a Pentacon Six most of the time, and I like it a lot. Film loading can be a little finicky which leads to spacing issues but otherwise it's a sweet camera and the Zeiss aus Jena glass made for it is really nice stuff. That lens is the 180mm f2.8 and it is a beautiful thing, although it does weigh roughly half a tonne. Actually so does the camera itself - weight is probably its main disadvantage, however it is also my go to mountaineering camera because both body and lenses will withstand rather ungentle treatment no bother. I've bashed mine against rocks, had it in the snow, dropped it while scrambling, got it covered in sand, and it just keeps on going shot after shot.

Also the Helios lenses are cool, I got a couple on eBay for my ME Super and one came with a free Zenit attached to it. Have to admit I've never actually tried using the camera though.

big scary monsters fucked around with this message at 23:14 on May 3, 2016

ape
Jul 20, 2009
Yeah, its really well built. I got a kiev-60 prism and adapter to use but it makes the weight even worse. I prefer the WLF for carrying it around.

I had the spacing issue on my first roll cause I didn't follow the instructions on loading it properly. Since then I've tensioned it to where the sprocket makes little holes in the rebate and so far it hasn't happened again.

Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer
I figured I'd always use the prism on my 88 because of the TTL metering, but I've found that the wlf is just much more handy to use and makes for a nicer shooting experience. The fact that it weighs about a tenth of the prism is a bonus.

The Claptain
May 11, 2014

Grimey Drawer

big scary monsters posted:

I rock a Pentacon Six most of the time, and I like it a lot. Film loading can be a little finicky which leads to spacing issues but otherwise it's a sweet camera and the Zeiss aus Jena glass made for it is really nice stuff. That lens is the 180mm f2.8 and it is a beautiful thing, although it does weigh roughly half a tonne. Actually so does the camera itself - weight is probably its main disadvantage, however it is also my go to mountaineering camera because both body and lenses will withstand rather ungentle treatment no bother. I've bashed mine against rocks, had it in the snow, dropped it while scrambling, got it covered in sand, and it just keeps on going shot after shot.

Also the Helios lenses are cool, I got a couple on eBay for my ME Super and one came with a free Zenit attached to it. Have to admit I've never actually tried using the camera though.

As another P6 owner I have nothing to add to this, except, despite its weight, it is still one of the lightest 6x6 systems (http://www.pentaconsix.com/TheCameras.htm, scroll towards the end). While the weight is not inconsiderable, I find that P6 with 80mm Biometar lens is not that much (if at all) heavier than my Canon 30D with 24-105 L lens.

I was thinking of getting Kiev 60 metering prism, but I do not mind carrying an external meter (btw, I use this meter, which despite being ancient selenium meter, is still spot on). And I too prefer WLF, which probably has to do with my TTL prism not workin, and both TTL and regular prisms being pretty dark and not covering whole frame.

I'll now go and take some pictures of all the eastern bloc stuff I have.

Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer
Found on OLX (Russian eBay) for ~$30. Talked the guy down to $20 because he wanted to haggle even though I was entirely fine with giving him the full price.


1969 Kiev 10. Helios-81 50mm f/2 automatic lens. by Iain Compton, on Flickr

Unlike the one I bought a few weeks ago, this one is in perfect condition. It meters, the automatic lens mechanism works, the fan shutter is properly aligned and it's still in the box with all of its accessories. There's a super ugly ever-ready case, a nice, all metal-cable-release, an adapter to use m39 lenses, rear cap for the lens, 1/4-3/8"tripod adapter and an OC12 filter for when you want your space-age, avant-garde camera to take black and white pictures.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

I'll upload a pic when I've got a free computer, but I just got a Smena 8M in what appears to be good condition with a nearly perfect LOMO case in the mail.

Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer

chitoryu12 posted:

I'll upload a pic when I've got a free computer, but I just got a Smena 8M in what appears to be good condition with a nearly perfect LOMO case in the mail.

I was given one of those yesterday. Looks like fun but I doubt I'll ever use mine. It doesn't have a regular film spool, you feed the film into an empty cartridge and it basically works like 120 film where the spool (cartridge in this case) from the last roll becomes the take-up spool (cartridge) for the next roll. As film doesn't come in re-usable cartridges any more, I'm not sure how to deal with that. There's no rewinder on the camera either.

I went to the flea markets today to get some stuff to ship to Goons and ended up with three new cameras. One was a lovely, and beat-up FED-2 for $5 that works but looks tatty. The only thing mechanically wrong with it is the timer mechanism doesn't work. I can see where the spring has popped out of the casing inside so that might be a weekend fixer-upper project.

I did however score this amazing piece of work.

1970 KMZ Horizont. Panoramic 35mm camera. by Iain Compton, on Flickr

It's a panoramic camera. Each shot takes two 35mm frames. The film is loaded over a curved track and the lens is in a rotating drum. It's a 28mm lens pre-focused to infinity - there's no viewfinder, rangefinder or prism to frame or focus with. The lens stops down from f/2.8 to f/16 and your choice of shutter speeds is 1/125. 1/60 or 1/30. Mine was made in 1970 at the KMZ factory, the home of Zenit and Zorki. I'm definitely going to try it out when I'm in Slovakia next week. I can't wait to climb to the top of the Sv Alzbety Dom in Kosice and see what the view is like from up there.

The other camera I got was a boxed and as-new Kiev 60 with all the accessories - filters, macro rings, wlf, ttl prism, carrying case and so forth. Unfortunately it's not a good example of the breed and serves as a good illustration of the fact that even brand new cameras often didn't work right out of the box. In this case, the shutter mechanism doesn't always engage properly when cocking. There's also fungus inside the Volna-3 80mm f/2.8 lens. I can probably fix the shutter and I have an identical lens for my Kiev 88 but I asked Arax for a quote to fix them both and, if it's less than about $100 I'll do that rather than risk loving it up myself.

1991 Kiev 60. Volna-3 80mm f/2.8 lens. by Iain Compton, on Flickr

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Helen Highwater posted:

I was given one of those yesterday. Looks like fun but I doubt I'll ever use mine. It doesn't have a regular film spool, you feed the film into an empty cartridge and it basically works like 120 film where the spool (cartridge in this case) from the last roll becomes the take-up spool (cartridge) for the next roll. As film doesn't come in re-usable cartridges any more, I'm not sure how to deal with that. There's no rewinder on the camera either.

I could just take the film to Colonial Photo & Hobby and ask them to return the cartridge. They remove the film from its cartridge or spool in a darkbox and load it into a big light-tight cartridge that actually goes into the machine, so I can drop off the film and still walk out with the take-up cartridge.

DJExile
Jun 28, 2007


Helen Highwater posted:

It's a panoramic camera. Each shot takes two 35mm frames. The film is loaded over a curved track and the lens is in a rotating drum. It's a 28mm lens pre-focused to infinity - there's no viewfinder, rangefinder or prism to frame or focus with. The lens stops down from f/2.8 to f/16 and your choice of shutter speeds is 1/125. 1/60 or 1/30. Mine was made in 1970 at the KMZ factory, the home of Zenit and Zorki. I'm definitely going to try it out when I'm in Slovakia next week. I can't wait to climb to the top of the Sv Alzbety Dom in Kosice and see what the view is like from up there.

oh my god I love this

Helen Highwater
Feb 19, 2014

And furthermore
Grimey Drawer

DJExile posted:

oh my god I love this

It's pretty rad. I've been playing with the mechanism constantly since I got it. The 'curtain' is a vertical slit at the back of the drum that has a variable width depending on the shutter speed. The rotational speed of the drum is constant regardless of settings.

DJExile
Jun 28, 2007


Helen Highwater posted:

It's pretty rad. I've been playing with the mechanism constantly since I got it. The 'curtain' is a vertical slit at the back of the drum that has a variable width depending on the shutter speed. The rotational speed of the drum is constant regardless of settings.

that's amazing and sounds wonderfully over-engineered

Pham Nuwen
Oct 30, 2010



DJExile posted:

that's amazing and sounds wonderfully over-engineered

actually sounds simpler to me than trying to vary the drum speed.

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SMERSH Mouth
Jun 25, 2005

OK so here's a completely idiotic question. Do conventional (horizontal, cloth, focal plane) shutter curtains move at variable speeds? After spending way to long watching the shutter action of my old kiev-60, trying to figure out what to do about its shutter capping at 1/1000, I'd want to say that the curtains always move at a constant (very fast, near instant) rate, and it's only the timing of the second curtain's release that causes variation in exposure time.

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