QUILTBAG-The fate of fabulous folks in foreign fields.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > QUILTBAG-The fate of fabulous folks in foreign fields.

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Megaspel posted:

I think the bathroom shenanigans is an attack on LGBT by a notorious anti-LGBT group, it gives them power and reputation, and also says to anyone watching that this is something people in charge do and think is right. Not only that, but American politics heavily influence English politics anyway, last thing we want is some local bigots getting inspired.

I suspect it's just a passing fad in the right wing, the current acceptable targets to hate and stir up poo poo over now that gay rights are no longer acceptable targets in the mainstream.

# ¿ Apr 23, 2016 20:12

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# ¿ May 1, 2024 15:59

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

BigRed0427 posted:

Source please? Also, I love that Trans rights is such a big issue that the right is willing to throw big business under the bus just to preserve the gender binary.

Big business funds the Republican party, but social conservatives vote for them.

# ¿ May 12, 2016 18:16

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Guavanaut posted:

And that also plays into exactly what groups like ISIS want; scared, angry, marginalized Muslims.

Indeed, they've been explicit about this. ISIS wants crackdowns against Muslims and wants a full-scale Western military assault against them.

People, please don't give ISIS what they want.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2016 22:46

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Tatum Girlparts posted:

to be fair last I checked both of them 100% were in the camp of 'these rules are loving stupid'

Also, Orlando's lifted that ban on donations. Florida's LGBT community understandably has been eager to donate blood and the folks in Orlando decided to remove the ban for them.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2016 22:50

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Nostalgia4Infinity posted:

Well it was certainly a better outcome than the witch hunts that came before. My dad (career Air Force) has told me stories about how in the 80's he took part in investigations where they would interrogate and threaten with all sorts of fun things including dishonorable discharges to people who they suspected of being gay to get them to confess and name names.

I've heard similar stories from my uncle (career Navy): it was seen as imperfect to say the least, but it was actually a step up and more importantly officially recognized that gay people do indeed exist.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2016 19:45

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Tatum Girlparts posted:

It's almost as if up until very recently gay rights were a constant struggle to even get weak, half-assed, reforms to fix absolutely horrific abuses of basic human dignity or something.

It's shocking just how dramatically that's changed in recent years. My uncle's a submarine guy, and he said he'd never served on a boat where people gave a poo poo. He said subs are a place where things like that don't stay secret and in practice no one gave a gently caress.

Might have just been what he saw, though, or maybe submarines are truly a different environment from the rest of the military.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2016 20:12

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Mr. Nice! posted:

The navy has always been a different sort of place. Every sailor has known gay sailors throughout all time. Admiral Mike Mullen was part of the force that finally got rid of DADT and forced the services to be open. From the start of his time as chairman of the joint chiefs he pushed for repeal. He talked about gay sailors he served with in vietnam and that no one gave a gently caress then or should now.

I knew a ton of gay sailors, both men and women. The only time it ever was an issue was because of a rank issue never anything else. No one cared. The only time it was an issue was when an chief was loving a seaman (high rank to low rank) underway pretty openly. It was on an all male ship. The rank thing was the only problem. The chief ended up losing his anchors and being forced to retire. The other guy was just transferred to a new command.

Ah, didn't know how much truth there was to that being a general Navy thing rather than specifically a submarine thing. My uncle always said submariners are a weird breed in the Navy, but that might be him just telling stories.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2016 23:18

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Tatum Girlparts posted:

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/baybuzz/lgbt-pride-flag-raised-after-orlando-shooting-unbearable-for-christian/2282099

Remember, even a few days after we get mass murdered, we need to remember that our flag is a very divisive and mean thing to put in public and really it's our fault if someone is 'uncomfortable' with it.

Hillsborough County is filled with and run by retired, wealthy, elderly white people so this doesn't surprise me.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2016 21:08

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

iospace posted:

Oh yeah, I know, but right now millennials are the "Big Prize" according to every pundit who has an opinion on the voting blocs this year. If you can swing them over to your side /and/ get them to vote, you win. The problem is right now they're waffling, because A. Bernie IS THE BEST, and B. ~~neo-nazis~~ "alt-right", so from a political move, promoting college seems to be the answer, but who the gently caress knows right now. Most disadvantaged poor people are usually assumed to be voting D anyway, unless you're white.

The bigger problem is that an awful lot of millennials are deeply disillusioned with politics in general. I'm a millennial and I'm voting for Hillary, but there are profound institutional and systemic problems with the American government and no president is capable of fixing them. Rightly or wrongly, Hillary is seen as a deeply establishment candidate and a lot of millennials hate the establishment more than they care for any particular ideology, leading to the popularity of perceived outsiders like Trump, Sanders, Stein, and Johnson with millennials.

For good and for ill, the blunt message of "poo poo in Washington DC is hosed, guys" is one that resonates very strongly with the millennial generation.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2016 18:48

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

computer parts posted:

How strange, people said the same thing about Boomers in the 70s.

Not strange at all and millennials will most likely drift further into establishment voting blocs as they get older like the generations before them. Right now a lot of millennials are still naive enough to think an outside can change how the country is run, or so disillusioned they don't vote.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2016 21:43

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

spotlessd posted:

You're so incredibly full of poo poo starting with the first sentence of your post. You're just a liberal. Come to terms with that now so we can move on to correcting this idiotic strawman. Oh heavens I was gonna be a leftist but now I'm not so sure! Please. Unless you're a graduate of the OwlFancier Academy of Uh Let's Just Call It Idiosyncratic Marxism you don't have a loving clue what you're even disagreeing with. You would if you read my posts but you blatantly didn't.

Please take your threadshitting somewhere else.

# ¿ Sep 25, 2016 01:53

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

RagnarokAngel posted:

Well even using explicit combat positions, the IDF has had women in equal roles as men (including Israel' mandatory military service) since 2000, though similarly they had been near the front since the beginning.

It also cannot be the only one, but I admit it's a subject I'm not very informed on.

And Russia famously had all-women units in combat roles in WW2, like the Night Witches.

# ¿ Oct 8, 2016 13:13

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

A Pale Horse posted:

Trump has been the most LGBT positive republican candidate to date. I would understand this panic if Slime Goblin Ted Cruz has been the candidate but I really don't think Trump has any animus towards the LGBT community, and Vice President is the most toothless position in American politics. I have no doubt that Trump doesn't want to be bothered with the every day minutia of governance but I'm thinking he's going to hand that off more to his personal team of goblins headed by probably Steve Bannon, who is also a huge turd, but not an explicitly anti LGBT one. I have no doubt he'll appoint judges bad for LGBT causes but I think that's as far as Trumps anti-LGBT work goes. Don't forget he's also got "gay traitor" Peter Thiel (who actually did a lot for LGBT causes before everyone started shrieking "traitor" in his face) buzzing in his ear and comes from the New York elite which is piled high with homosexuals. Any republican would have been bad, and Trump is a monster, he's just not a particularly anti-LGBT one so the histrionics probably aren't warranted.

There will be a lot of alt right type trolls crowing about how they're all going to send us to the fabulous gas chambers for a few months though.

It's not Trump you should be afraid of, it's Pence. Trump has never given a poo poo about anything that does not personally affect him. Mike Pence, not so much.

quote:

�Pence is no Uncle Joe.His record as governor indicates that he is willing to completely undermine the core values of a free country in order to impose his own vision of theocratic control.

While Donald Trump is a bumbling political idiot, Mike Pence is actively against the people and possibilities that we need to help America to have a strong future. His career has been built on hateful exclusion, not intelligent inclusion.

Here are some things that every voter should know about Mike Pence:

- Science and invention helped build America, but Mike Pence is 100% anti-science. He chooses not to accept the preponderance of evidence that supports anthropomorphic climate change, and he thinks schools should be required to teach Christian �creationism� mythology alongside evolution in science classrooms.

- Mike Pence is anti-environment. As governor, he has vetoed every piece of environmental regulation that has crossed his desk. He doesn�t want the EPA to regulate greenhouse gases, and he does want to open up pretty much every part of our country to oil and coal companies. No more wildlands under Pence. He is one of those irresponsible extremists who think that God gave us the world so we could just use it up, and when it is all used up the second coming will occur. There is no Biblical basis for this belief.

- Females make up more than half of the American population, but Mike Pence is anti-woman. He has said the Disney movie �Mulan,� which was based on a centuries old Chinese poem, was the work of a �mischievous liberal� trying to groom young children to accept women in combat. �Despite her delicate features and voice, Disney expects us to believe that Mulan�s ingenuity and courage were enough to carry her to military success on an equal basis,� he wrote on his radio show�s website.

- He obsessively pursues a personal vendetta to take Title X funding away from Planned Parenthood because Planned Parenthood provides abortion services. Title X money CANNOT be used for abortions. Abortions are paid for by the recipient or through private, tagged donations. Taking away Title X will not impact abortion services, but it would leave thousands of women without access to cancer screenings or birth control.

- Speaking of birth control, Mike Pence once again revealed his historical ignorance in saying that condoms are �modern� and �liberal.� He thinks all women should be pregnant unless they can�t afford a baby, in which case they should abstain from sex, even if they are married. That�s right: sex is only for procreation in PenceWorld. If you can�t afford the diapers, then hubby should be sleeping on the couch.

- Mike Pence is also anti-gay, to the point of denial. He doesn�t want the government to pay for cancer screenings, but he does want the government to pay for abusive �conversion therapy� programs that systematically undermine the victim�s self-esteem, and then indoctrinate them into robotic gender-appropriate behaviors. He has signed into law a bill that allows discrimination against LGTBQ customers based on religious belief.

- As governor of Indiana, Mike Pence was personally responsible for an outbreak of AIDS when he refused to allow clean needle exchanges for drug addicts. Instead, he asked people to pray for the addicts.

- Mike Pence is racist. He thinks there is �too much talk� about institutional racism in law enforcement because �police officers are human beings.� His solution is unity through �faith.� The Indiana governor has tried to prevent Syrian refugees from settling in his state because the �pose a threat to safety of residents.� Pence argued that his policy was based on fear, not race, so it wasn�t discriminatory. A Federal Appeals Court dismissed his racist arguments on October 3, 2016.

- A Federal Court also had to block his bizarre anti-abortion law that required burial or cremation for fetuses, whether miscarried or aborted, no matter how far along the pregnancy had progressed.

- Mike Pence is pro-birth, but not pro-life. He once funneled $3.5M dollars from Temporary Assistance to Needy Families into programs that counsel against abortion. He wants those women to have those babies, but he doesn�t care if the kids starve or live on the streets afterward.

- Mike Pence has refused to comply with federal guidelines aimed at reducing prison rape.

When you add it all together, you can see that the most dangerous part of the Trump-Pence ticket is �that calculating quiet man who will be leading the charge from behind. Mike Pence is basically against anyone who is not white, conservative, Christian, and male.

When Mike Pence was a young lawyer on the rise, he challenged a longtime Democratic congressman for a seat in a Republican-leaning Indiana district. He seemed to have it in the bag until voters were stunned to learn that he had been using political donations to pay personal expenses including the mortgage on his house, his credit card bill, groceries, golf tournament fees, and car payments for his wife.�

# ¿ Nov 10, 2016 13:23

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Baka-nin posted:

So yeah, looks like Pence is becoming quite prominent in the new administration and will likely surround the new president with like minded friends. Not good.

Trump's never been shy about this: Trump wants to Make America Great Again, he'll let Pence worry about trivial details like domestic policy. It's one of the things I've always stressed to friends and family worrying about Trump, that the cheeto elemental isn't the scary part of the ticket for women and minorities.

# ¿ Nov 17, 2016 02:57

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Coffee And Pie posted:

*busts down door where an slightly feminine looking cis man is peeing*

Urine big trouble!

Funny thing, the people who care about bathroom bills don't give a poo poo who uses men's bathrooms. Transmen just aren't a thing to the vast majority of anti-transgender advocates.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2017 13:21

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

I think it comes down to an unfortunate fact: queer people can be lovely people, too.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2017 04:07

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

cis autodrag posted:

http://www.vocativ.com/culture/lgbt/transgender-suicide/

41% of transgender people have attempted suicide. Arming trans people just converts those attempts into successes. It's a terrible idea. The only way to protect the trans community is to get people to stop being bystanders to violence against minorities.

On the other hand, historically the best way to get gun control laws passed in the United States is to arm minorities, so...

# ¿ Mar 9, 2017 17:06

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Easy Salmon Recipe posted:

A study being performed at a small university in the US indicates that there is a severe decline in sexual activity among homosexual males.

The sample size is very small, though.

Sexual activity among younger people is declining in general and has been for decades.

# ¿ May 5, 2017 03:03

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Maybe keep this stuff in the appropriate thread. While horrifying, I don't see what this particular hobby horse has to do with LGBT issues beyond just being more ultra-right wing garbage.

# ¿ May 24, 2017 23:38

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

I'll support police marching in Pride events when the police protect the LGBT community.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2017 22:01

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

I'm not being flippant that I think police should only march in Pride parades if they protect the LGBT community. By and large, they don't, so why the gently caress should the LGBT community support them or indicate that they're welcome?

# ¿ Jun 13, 2017 14:36

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

I don't have a problem with LGBT cops marching in pride parades out of uniform or in uniform acting as security. Heck, I'm fine with local police forces that do have a record of protecting the LGBT community marching in uniform in pride parades. But many if not most don't have that record, and I feel that it is inappropriate for organizations with a history of bullying and worse and generally failing to do their jobs to the LGBT community to have an official presence marching in support of pride.

# ¿ Jun 14, 2017 04:29

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

there wolf posted:

In honor of the anniversary of the Pulse shooting, I present the dumbest take. The Pulse shooting wasn't about gays, and Orlando making it about gays is driving down Disney's attendance! Have I mentioned the Ark Encounter?

The Orlando Sentinel is, shall we say, not known for the quality or objectivity of their reporting.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2017 02:56

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

CommieGIR posted:

"Sure it could cause harm. It hasn't yet, and its totally not constitutional"

C'mon, that seems like a cop out.

In a vacuum, I could understand it - I think the reasoning is "just because it might lead to someone getting hurt doesn't mean that it will," which in isolation I think is a fair enough line of thought.

But it's loving Mississippi.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2017 04:53

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Hollismason posted:

The LGBT and Jewish community are forever intertwined together because of one of the greatest atrocities committed by man. It was supporters of the Jewish people who not only helped Jews escape the Nazis but targeted homosexuals as well. We as a community have a shared trauma with the Jewish people. To not recognize that and to say that you can't fly the Jewish Star of David is not only anti semitic , but insulting to the thousands of homosexuals who died alongside the Jewish people in the Holocaust.

It's loving bullshit and absofuckinglutely outrageous that someone using the Jewish Star of David on a Rainbow Flag would be asked to take that down.

Also if you read the LGB thread in GBS, according to a couple of people who were there, everyone at that march who was using a star of david on a rainbow flag to express being gay and jewish was thrown out, not just the one pro-Israel person.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2017 14:37

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

landgrabber posted:

it started as them identifying (correctly, i personally feel), that "it's 2017" isn't a good argument point for anything, since liberals/SJWs (one of which I am) tend to say it a lot, now they rebut like a child with "BECAUSE iT'S CURRENT YEAR"

I also see it a lot as "Come on, it's 2017, homophobia and racism are over, you won, stop getting worked up about [insert racist or homophobic issue here]!"

# ¿ Jun 28, 2017 00:03

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Thalantos posted:

I asked a close acquaintance of mine whose on Atlanta pride committee, she said they moved it to October because it's just too hot right now, and attendance slipped in the past

Pride events in Florida are typically scheduled for winter, and for the same reason. Too drat hot and it rains almost every day between May and September. The town I grew up in had Pride in February.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2017 17:26

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

The SecDef is also out of the country right now and it seems pretty clear that this is all from the White House, not the Pentagon.

Wonder if the Pentagon's going to fight back on this.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2017 18:24

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

AlexJade posted:

I can't imagine the head of the joint chiefs of staff is very happy right now considering his pro-LGBT views.

Also, it seems to just be Trump tweeting about it. Wouldn't be surprised if the military's leadership decides yeah no this isn't happening.

A couple of my relatives who serve in the military (and calm down, Senju, they serve in parts of the military that put them at zero risk of being told to gun down poor people) assured the rest of our family after the election that orders can't be issued over twitter and the military community was dubious whether Trump would be competent enough to make and carry through any substantial decisions regarding the military.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2017 23:37

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

rkajdi posted:

This could be useful to the military issue. It's from someone who was in during DADT, and all the bullshit that happened when someone got caught up with that: https://twitter.com/SaundraMitchell/status/890219554705735681

In short, even if you're the biggest marxoteen to ever marxoteen and hate the military for being the imperialist war machine, what's going to happen to trans people in the military is going to be ugly. They're going to get Less Than Honorable discharges, which not only fucks up your ability to get any of the services and benefits we expect when someone says they served, and they get a big red mark that every employer sees that might as well say FELON. And because there was already orders in place to support transitioning people, the Trumpies know exactly who to drum out of the service. It would be like repealing DADT and then three months later switching tracks giving general discharges to everyone who came out.

Worst part is this is whiplashy as poo poo, and will get a bunch of backlash from the upper staff. The military is change-averse IME (no service, but 17 years as a DoD civilian), but the thing they are even more than change-averse is chaos-averse. Once you've set a path, you don't change on a whim. It fucks with trying to actually plan 10, 15, 20 years into the future and applies to this and all other large scale policy initiatives.

I also agree that repealing DADT didn't help much with gay acceptance because it happened so late. But integration did wonders for racial equality because it was on the leading edge. Trans acceptance in the military would be more like racial equality because it's on the leading edge instead of trailing behind. Yeah, you get smart-assed comments at the moment, but nothing creates empathy quite like shared struggle. That's half the reason why the bigots are fighting this. If they lose here, full acceptance is pushed left on the timeline, to the point they may have to accept it in their lifetimes.

This kind of thing is why I expect that the military will fight the issue. Would hardly be the first time Trump's announced a brave new world and the establishment has hold him to shut up while they get on with the real world.

As I understand it, the military's leadership does not like Trump in general. He's volatile, indecisive, and does not present the kind of clear vision of America's role in the world and how the military will be employed that the military likes to see in civilian leadership.

# ¿ Jul 27, 2017 01:14

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Fortunately, given that the military is the country's largest employer of trans people, Trump's current press secretary said that this is all Trump tweeting and there's no actual plan in place to remove trans people from the military nor has Trump talked with the Secretary of Defense or other senior military leaders about implementing this.

Fingers crossed the establishment will fight Trump off.

# ¿ Jul 27, 2017 14:12

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

RagnarokAngel posted:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/27/politics/trump-military-transgender-ban-joint-chiefs/index.html

US Joint Chiefs blindsided by Trump's transgender ban

How does one get to be so bad at things?

By being incompetent and assuming that "I'm the president!" equals "My will be done without question!" Trump wants to be president, not to be the president.

The onset of dementia does not help.

# ¿ Jul 27, 2017 20:07

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Liquid Communism posted:

I expect that's part of why the Joint Chiefs' official opinion on the matter is "gently caress You, a Tweet is not a legal order."

Also helps that Trump lied about talking to anyone at the Pentagon about banning transgender people from the military (he hadn't) and apparently has not actually made any moves towards actually trying to force the military to ban transgender people.

Trump having the attention spam of a gnat is for once working out in the LGBT community's favor.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2017 02:56

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Quorum posted:

In this case, as in so many before, it's going to prove harder to roll back protections and remove rights than I think the administration fully understands. (I'd say "than Trump understands" but he's basically a senile racist grandpa randomly firing lovely neurons at this point.) Once people serve alongside out trans people, they build ties of empathy and understanding that aren't so easy to sever. I think if the administration wants to hurt trans people they're more than capable of doing it, but their regressive fifties status quo has already taken some damage.

Military leadership is also highly likely to resist this move. The White House and the Pentagon do not want the same things, and it'll be interesting to see if the Pentagon throws its weight into dragging its heels.

# ¿ Aug 5, 2017 20:06

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

GreyjoyBastard posted:

If and when the brass decides to stone wall they'll be subtler about it but with a similar result.

And they'll say that after a couple of years of sending the paperwork back to the White House and insisting they fill it out properly.

# ¿ Aug 6, 2017 05:00

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

rkajdi posted:

Didn't the top brass testify to Congress on the repeal of DADT on the basis that enough of the linguists were gay that them getting randomly booted out was hurting readiness? I get it was self-serving, but the brass did stand up to Congress and got concessions for LGB service members from them.

They did. From what I've heard from serving family members, our military leadership intensely dislikes Trump to begin with for being erratic, volatile, and having no clear foreign policy or vision for the future. The military likes it when they have a clear understanding of what to expect from the president and what the president expects from them. Trump is... not that.

# ¿ Aug 6, 2017 14:37

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# ¿ May 1, 2024 15:59

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Thalantos posted:

Wait were the gayest city in the country?

I don't know about the country, but certainly in the South. Orlando was a close second, which is part of why the Pulse shooting was so horrifying.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2017 15:26

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > QUILTBAG-The fate of fabulous folks in foreign fields.