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Bobo the Red posted:Arthur Dayne died trying to stop someone from seeing his dying sister. Also, to prevent anyone from murdering Rhaegar's heir. I mean, Ned wouldn't have done so regardless, but Dayne didn't know that. Robert clearly would have without question. Alhazred posted:And he didn't stab the mad king when he burned Eddard's father and brother because then he would actually risk something by doing the right thing. I feel like there's a difference between two Northern lords and 500,000 random people. 500,000 people seems like a place where someone might draw a line where previously they hadn't.
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Aug 27, 2016 00:21
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Xealot posted:Also, to prevent anyone from murdering Rhaegar's heir. 500,000 people and his father's head. I think it was more ordering Tywin's death that forced his hand more than anything.
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Aug 27, 2016 00:39
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tooterfish posted:Not technically. If you don't recover from the ceremony, you're not the king. Probably lots of brain damage though. skasion posted:The thing is, in both cases Jaime and the Hound's revolt against social convention is portrayed as insane and destructive to themselves and others. It's self-righteous nihilism fueled by murder. "Haha I killed a whole bunch of people society says I probably shouldn't have, this makes me morally superior to the sheeple who stood by while somebody else killed some people society says they probably shouldn't have". This is not a super hot take on how to behave. OTOH, I don't think we're supposed to see Jaime's act in that context as a negative one. I always felt that the narrative was asking us to think about how insane it was that most of the characters we though of as good would consider what he did to be *worse* than killing King Hitler before he could kill everyone. So much so that I imagined that Brienne's arc in the book was leading up to a similar choice that she was going to have to make, thus sort of legitimizing Jaime's choice. Sadly, Martin died before finishing another book in the year 2032.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:08
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We're not supposed to see Jaime as a wholly negative or positive figure. His act to kill Aerys saves thousands of people from dying, but it's also an act of self-interest. He goes on to gently caress his sister a whole lot and throw an innocent child out a window. His alienation from the morals of his society gives him a great perspective on its hypocrisy, but also blinds him to his own badness and selfishness.
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Aug 27, 2016 03:50
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Alhazred posted:And he didn't stab the mad king when he burned Eddard's father and brother because then he would actually risk something by doing the right thing. Pretty sure a bunch of people wanted to punish him for what he did. There was certainly risk. Regardless, he was the youngest Kingsguard. He had seen the least of the Mad King's evil. He acted to stop it, none of the "honorable" ones ever did. They just enabled the rapes and the murders for decades for the sake of their honor.
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Aug 27, 2016 04:18
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skasion posted:We're not supposed to see Jaime as a wholly negative or positive figure. His act to kill Aerys saves thousands of people from dying, but it's also an act of self-interest. He goes on to gently caress his sister a whole lot and throw an innocent child out a window. His alienation from the morals of his society gives him a great perspective on its hypocrisy, but also blinds him to his own badness and selfishness. Probably the best part of Jamie is that he is not blind to his badness and selfishness. He will straight up tell you he's bad and selfish, especially if he knows it will annoy you. Duty in Game of Thrones is about more than what's "just."
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Aug 27, 2016 04:26
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skasion posted:The whole concept of the kingsguard as moral exemplars and perfect knights is meant to evoke this kind of moral problem: is it better to unquestioningly serve the guy you swore to serve even if he's a horrible bastard, or better to betray your word and your honor, taking advantage of his trust, to murder the guy you serve because he's a horrible bastard? Except that in reality, as a dilemma, it's actually pretty vacuous, because "but I swore an oath!/ had orders" is simply a variant on the Nuremberg defense. So we have a functioning solution to it already. This makes GRRM's mulling via Barristan pretty pointless.
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Aug 27, 2016 07:10
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Jaime is HBO character incarnate.
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Aug 27, 2016 08:04
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NESguerilla posted:Jaime is HBO character incarnate. Jamie: "What the gently caress did I do?"
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Aug 27, 2016 08:55
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Bobo the Red posted:Pretty sure a bunch of people wanted to punish him for what he did. There was certainly risk. Jaime knew that his dad, the most powerful man in Westeros, was at the gate. There wasn't any risk of anyone punishing Jaime.
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Aug 27, 2016 10:21
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A reminder that HBO wanted this show to go basically forever. It's D&D who run the show and go 'hey maybe 73 episodes is more than enough for us!  '
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Aug 27, 2016 18:02
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Good. Networks running poo poo into the ground is the worst.
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Aug 27, 2016 18:48
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Lycus posted:Good. Networks running poo poo into the ground is the worst. You can never run tits and dragons into the ground. I will watch them forever.
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Aug 27, 2016 19:09
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Yeah, and blowing up half the cast in a single episode is surely the creative direction the show needed.
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Aug 27, 2016 19:19
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Blowing up half the cast and killing one by proxy made the Iron Throne relevant to the overall narrative again, which is something I didn't actually see coming.
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Aug 27, 2016 19:33
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Apoplexy posted:half the cast What will this show be without tremendously important characters like Kevan Lannister, Nervous Noble #4, and Sneering Sparrow #9? Three main characters there alone.
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Aug 27, 2016 19:42
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Lycus posted:What will this show be without tremendously important characters like Kevan Lannister, Nervous Noble #4, and Sneering Sparrow #9? Three main characters there alone. Everyone in KL of note except Cersei, Jaime, Gregor, and Qyburn is dead.
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Aug 27, 2016 19:50
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In other words, the important characters are still alive and a couple mid-tier characters and a few minor characters are dead. Half the cast.
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Aug 27, 2016 19:54
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Alhazred posted:Jaime knew that his dad, the most powerful man in Westeros, was at the gate. There wasn't any risk of anyone punishing Jaime.
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Aug 27, 2016 19:58
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Killing MARGAERY TYRELL, THE HIGH SPARROW, LORAS TYRELL, MACE TYRELL, KEVAN LANNISTER, LANCEL LANNISTER, and GRAND MAESTER PYCELLE all at once was a cute move, but a lovely one when you consider how much each was built up only to be blown up en masse without any real story resolution for most of them.
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Aug 27, 2016 20:16
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They were all side characters in Cersei's storyline. Murdering them was a part of her and her storyline's development. Maybe it'll look like half the cast if I use all caps. Lycus fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Aug 27, 2016 |
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Aug 27, 2016 20:19
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Apoplexy posted:Killing MARGAERY TYRELL, THE HIGH SPARROW, LORAS TYRELL, MACE TYRELL, KEVAN LANNISTER, LANCEL LANNISTER, and GRAND MAESTER PYCELLE all at once was a cute move, but a lovely one when you consider how much each was built up only to be blown up en masse without any real story resolution for most of them. I think the high sparrow literally getting blown up by his own hubris is pretty great, personally. Margaery seeing through it but still dying though 
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Aug 27, 2016 20:21
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Apoplexy posted:Killing MARGAERY TYRELL, THE HIGH SPARROW, LORAS TYRELL, MACE TYRELL, KEVAN LANNISTER, LANCEL LANNISTER, and GRAND MAESTER PYCELLE all at once was a cute move, but a lovely one when you consider how much each was built up only to be blown up en masse without any real story resolution for most of them.
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Aug 27, 2016 20:33
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Apoplexy posted:Yeah, and blowing up half the cast in a single episode is surely the creative direction the show needed.
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Aug 27, 2016 20:41
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Apoplexy posted:Killing MARGAERY TYRELL, THE HIGH SPARROW, LORAS TYRELL, MACE TYRELL, KEVAN LANNISTER, LANCEL LANNISTER, and GRAND MAESTER PYCELLE all at once was a cute move, but a lovely one when you consider how much each was built up only to be blown up en masse without any real story resolution for most of them. I have my doubts that Cersei will last to the final season. We're rapidly shifting to the "zombies vs dragons" plot and there's very little she can contribute to in that regard. Probably she'll be a climactic death interspersed with the Wall falling or something like that.
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Aug 27, 2016 20:48
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Apoplexy posted:Killing MARGAERY TYRELL, THE HIGH SPARROW, LORAS TYRELL, MACE TYRELL, KEVAN LANNISTER, LANCEL LANNISTER, and GRAND MAESTER PYCELLE all at once was a cute move, but a lovely one when you consider how much each was built up only to be blown up en masse without any real story resolution for most of them. At this point in the series you can't be surprised that major characters will die randomly.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:22
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If every major character gets neat closure before they die it wouldn't have had any impact when cersei loving nukes them because their stories would be over. The fact that cersei got to nuke them right in the middle of their scheming and plots and narratives is what makes it so awesome
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Aug 27, 2016 21:55
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Zzulu posted:If every major character gets neat closure before they die it wouldn't have had any impact when cersei loving nukes them because their stories would be over. The fact that cersei got to nuke them right in the middle of their scheming and plots and narratives is what makes it so awesome Always bet on black. 
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Aug 27, 2016 22:03
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The destruction of the Sept put hatewatchers in a very difficult position. Their task would've been easier of it had been another "bad pussy" instead, but you go to war with the army you have, not the one you want.
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Aug 27, 2016 23:08
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Lycus posted:The destruction of the Sept put hatewatchers in a very difficult position. Their task would've been easier of it had been another "bad pussy" instead, but you go to war with the army you have, not the one you want. What? It just killed off the best characters to make a Mary Sue more powerful for a while.
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Aug 27, 2016 23:09
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Cersei is not a Mary Sue.
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Aug 27, 2016 23:45
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steinrokkan posted:What? It just killed off the best characters to make a Mary Sue more powerful for a while. It's true, I honestly don't know if the show is worth my time without Kevan Lannister or the 20 minutes of screen time each season that Pycelle brings. The only real loss in that explosion was Margaery, and I don't know how else her story could've ended except with her killing Cersei or dying at her hand.
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Aug 28, 2016 00:09
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Lancel was the best character in the show. This show is going such poo poo without him. He never found the breastplate stretcher. Lycus fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Aug 28, 2016 |
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Aug 28, 2016 00:53
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Lycus posted:Lancel was the best character in the show. This show is going such poo poo without him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFdj7wPf2XI
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Aug 28, 2016 01:05
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ShakeZula posted:The only real loss in that explosion was Margaery, and I don't know how else her story could've ended except with her killing Cersei or dying at her hand.
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Aug 28, 2016 01:41
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Why is every strong female character called a Mary Sue now? Did that start with Force Awakens?
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Aug 28, 2016 04:25
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LividLiquid posted:Why is every strong female character called a Mary Sue now? Did that start with Force Awakens? It was one of the most-complained about recent ones, at least, but far from the first. Though that one's also an especially ironic one because Luke Skywalker was an actual Mary Sue and most of the complaints about Rey apply to him just as much if not more.
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Aug 28, 2016 05:01
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I think it started as soon as the term became widely known
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Aug 28, 2016 05:06
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Grand Meister Pycelle was completely useless, and for that I love him. "Treason is treason." Finer words were never spoken.
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Aug 28, 2016 05:55
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tooterfish posted:Haha. Probably. There's a "casual" and "hardcore" mode to the the baptism. Theon goes through the former when he comes home in Season 2. Euron underwent the hardcore version in Season 6. Also the Drowned God Priesthood all know CPR (no, really), which of course comes across as magical/miraculous in the setting and explains why the ritual is widely survivable.
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Aug 29, 2016 01:04
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