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Khisanth Magus posted:Welcome to video game development? Not every company does that, not like this.
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Feb 8, 2018 22:18
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THE BAR posted:Not every company does that, not like this. Is there any strategy franchise that had years of expansions with new races and features, and then came out with a completely new base game that had all of those races.
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Feb 8, 2018 22:20
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Khisanth Magus posted:Is there any strategy franchise that had years of expansions with new races and features, and then came out with a completely new base game that had all of those races. Armada 2 is doing that
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Feb 8, 2018 22:22
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The issue was not the number of initial factions, the game just sucked.
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Feb 8, 2018 22:23
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Khisanth Magus posted:Is there any strategy franchise that had years of expansions with new races and features, and then came out with a completely new base game that had all of those races. Speaking strictly of features, I can't recall a Paradox sequel that has regressed in any way.
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Feb 8, 2018 22:23
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Safety Factor posted:The issue was not the number of initial factions, the game just sucked. I was excited as hell for this game and I played maybe three missions and never went back. I'm a 40k lunatic and if you can't keep me on board, you hosed the game up.
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Feb 8, 2018 22:56
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It's really weird to me that Relic went from Dawn of War 1 (amazingly innovative for its time) through Company of Heroes 1 (one of the best small scale RTS games I've ever played with a top notch campaign to boot) and then proceeded to make a shitter Comapny of Heroes for DoW2, and then CoH2 which was like a more different shitter CoH1, and then this thing which from everything I've seen looks like the most boring drat RTS I've ever seen.
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Feb 8, 2018 23:26
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There is nothing egregiously bad about DoW III it just feels bland and like it's from a different era.
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Feb 9, 2018 00:35
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Popete posted:There is nothing egregiously bad about DoW III it just feels bland and like it's from a different era. Maybe that is why I like this game, because I rather liked the classic rts era.
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Feb 9, 2018 00:38
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I liked it at the time but I've definitely grown to prefer either the scale of something like supreme commander, or the detail of something like CoH1. Though hell I still enjoy DoW1.
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Feb 9, 2018 00:40
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Popete posted:There is nothing egregiously bad about DoW III it just feels bland and like it's from a different era. The visual mess it turns into even in middle sized battles is definitely egregiously bad. Way too many simultaneous flashy effects.
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Feb 9, 2018 01:37
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Popete posted:There is nothing egregiously bad about DoW III it just feels bland and like it's from a different era. Yeah I think with more work it could be good but well here we are.
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Feb 9, 2018 01:38
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Senjuro posted:The visual mess it turns into even in middle sized battles is definitely egregiously bad. Way too many simultaneous flashy effects. Flashy, but with little real impact. 
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Feb 9, 2018 02:02
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OwlFancier posted:It's really weird to me that Relic went from Dawn of War 1 (amazingly innovative for its time) through Company of Heroes 1 (one of the best small scale RTS games I've ever played with a top notch campaign to boot) and then proceeded to make a shitter Comapny of Heroes for DoW2, and then CoH2 which was like a more different shitter CoH1, and then this thing which from everything I've seen looks like the most boring drat RTS I've ever seen. If only they had gone whole hog into making an RTS all the way, or a DotA clone all the wayy, it probably would have been fine but instead they half baked both and welp The CoH1 downgrade to CoH2 was also amazing I agree. CoH1 was one my most played games and my favorite RTS of all time. Then they made CoH2 which was just a worse version of CoH1, it still is baffling to me. Captain Beans fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 02:03
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What really bothered me about this game was the base building stuff, it felt like it was just shoved in so they could say it was there
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Feb 9, 2018 02:09
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Not surprised. Like an earlier poster said, I'm a sucker for DoW and WH40k and I was greatly disappointed in the game. I just played the Last Stand not too long ago and it still holds up but nothing in DoW3 holds my attention for very long. I've said it time and time again but the "spirit" of DoW was traded for "shiny" to the game's detriment. I hope this doesn't kill the DoW franchise but I'm afraid it did.
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Feb 9, 2018 02:13
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Senjuro posted:The visual mess it turns into even in middle sized battles is definitely egregiously bad. Way too many simultaneous flashy effects. I agree, the worst part of the game for me was it just didn't feel very 40k. Big battles looked like a disco laser show and you couldn't really tell what was going on. Corpses didn't linger so you didn't get that feeling of massive Carnage. It lacked personality.
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Feb 9, 2018 02:50
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Captain Beans posted:If only they had gone whole hog into making an RTS all the way, or a DotA clone all the wayy, it probably would have been fine but instead they half baked both and welp Define how this was a DotA clone
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Feb 9, 2018 02:51
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Dawn of War II's big draw is that despite its many imperfections, it provides a lot of strong audio-visual feedback, with units that pop visually, interact with the environment and each other convincingly, and say ridiculous lines constantly (though I give it 5/10 on the "WITNESS YOUR DOOM" scale). The units are also visually on-point with tabletop models in a really careful way. Dawn of War III... It's just very difficult to tell what's going on, the terrain is flat, the melee combat is unconvincing at best, and so on. As a game it's about as convincing as your average free-to-play moba, but with worse art direction and UI. The voice acting is good but it takes a little more. The experience is bland and the sense of immersion is not there. Popete summed it up, it has no personality. It felt like they were trying to move past the Dow II/COH 2 UI aesthetic and feel, and royally hosed it up. I don't think it made any real attempt to "please fans of both earlier games." As far as balance, I wasn't interested enough to figure out how Relic, who have never made a well-balanced game ever and rarely come close, had hosed it up this time. E: I have like 700 hours in COH2, which is a deeply flawed game in a lot of ways, but it has personality and provides an experience, and that counts for a lot. Name Change fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Feb 9, 2018 |
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Feb 9, 2018 02:52
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DoW2 had Unit veterancy Dynamic cover (as opposed to strange bubbles that were impenetrable to random units for no clear reason) Space Marines that had not yet forgotten how to move and shoot. Physics These were good things and it's not clear why they chose to scrap this instrad of build on this solid foundation.
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Feb 9, 2018 03:40
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HOW THE gently caress DID THEY NOT RELEASE LAST STAND THE SECOND?! Seriously, the core game play is already setup for Last Stand style play. Add in something new, like each player controlling 3 elites (you can mix and match across race) and you have yourself a winner of a game.
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Feb 9, 2018 04:43
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Stanley Pain posted:HOW THE gently caress DID THEY NOT RELEASE LAST STAND THE SECOND?! They basically hoovered up all the fun parts of the first two games and then painted over the poo poo that was left over. It's so characterless, I don't even know how you manage to make 40k boring. Dumb, I get. Obnoxious, I get. But boring? Come on son.
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Feb 9, 2018 04:46
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Dear GW please give the DoW IP to the guys making Iron Harvest.
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Feb 9, 2018 04:55
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Psycho Landlord posted:To be fair, the modding scene fixed a lot of the issues Soulstorm has. So if you ever get a hankering for DoW1 goodness and just want to throw a bunch of crazy mods in a pot and have giant fuckin battles, Soulstorm's actually the best platform to do it with. Is there a good Soulstorm mod with an executable so I don't have to gently caress about? I know the AI Mod is OK.
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Feb 9, 2018 04:58
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I going to echo what others have said regarding the audio and visuals lacking a certain flair. The gameplay part is where the game really failed for me. The game has this meatgrinder aspect to it where the hero units and vehicles can annihilate entire squads. Requiring you to constantly micromanage your forces or face heavy losses. It felt like a chore to constantly put units in and out of a truck in order to fight effectively. Most of the micromanagement felt like pointless busywork added purely for its own sake. You can't even auto-reinforce squads when they're near buildings, you have to mash R.
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Feb 9, 2018 05:19
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JBP posted:I was excited as hell for this game and I played maybe three missions and never went back. I'm a 40k lunatic and if you can't keep me on board, you hosed the game up. Same. refunded the game. Mordja posted:Flashy, but with little real impact. Button, awesome, even.
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Feb 9, 2018 05:48
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Hav posted:Same. refunded the game. I actually felt guilty because I had it bought for me as a gift because I was so pumped. It was hard telling my gf it was a lovely game and by association she was a lovely person for buying it for me.
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Feb 9, 2018 06:11
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Everything in DoW III just felt like such a step backward. It’s like they took out all the tactical and strategic depth that DoW II had like dynamic cover, high ground advantage, tweaking squads to respond to certain threats and instead settled on Micromangement hell like Starcraft 1 because e-sports. It made for a bland bloby RTS that felt like something released in the late 90s
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Feb 9, 2018 06:39
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Comrayn posted:It rules that this game died because a bunch of idiots on message boards thought it was something it wasn’t. If it had a moderately successful launch I think they could have improved it but as is it’s just mediocre. All of the wrong lessons will be learned. The game died because every single part of it was a step back from every RTS game relic has ever made (not to mention any of the Dawn of War games) and because they doubled down on focusing on a target demographic (PvP, esports) that they knew was a absolutely tiny fraction of their player base. As for the lessons that will be learned: "Copy Blizzard more, double down on esports", because that is the standard response by any publishers of RTS games (and at this point, there are no good RTS developers left at Relic - and even if there were, the current relic has absolutely no clout and is simply going to do what SEGA tells them to do). Dawn of War 3 is the perfect example of what happens when a publisher that tries to force the market into liking their game instead of making a game that their market likes gets married to a developer that doesn't actually know how to make a game in the genre. Pure clusterfuck. I especially love the unapologetic "it's not us, it's you" passive aggressiveness of their farewell DoW 3 blog entry. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 01:31
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DatonKallandor posted:The game died because every single part of it was a step back from every RTS game relic has ever made (not to mention any of the Dawn of War games) and because they doubled down on focusing on a target demographic (PvP, esports) that they knew was a absolutely tiny fraction of their player base. As for the lessons that will be learned: "Copy Blizzard more, double down on esports", because that is the standard response by any publishers of RTS games (and at this point, there are no good RTS developers left at Relic - and even if there were, the current relic has absolutely no clout and is simply going to do what SEGA tells them to do). This is a lot of words that ultimately says nothing at all
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Feb 10, 2018 04:58
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Comrayn posted:This is a lot of words that ultimately says nothing at all Well its certainly saying more than your "lol stupid people don't know what this game wanted to be so it's their fault it failed" rhetoric
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Feb 10, 2018 07:27
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Comrayn posted:This is a lot of words that ultimately says nothing at all But enough about your post history dont even fink about it posted:Is there a good Soulstorm mod with an executable so I don't have to gently caress about? I know the AI Mod is OK. I think Ultimate Apocalypse is an exe install? Even if it's not, there's enough modding tutorials for DoW games to fill the Library of Congress, and it's usually just drag and drop in the data folder so I can't imagine you'd have difficulty with any of the popular ones. Psycho Landlord fucked around with this message at 11:56 on Feb 10, 2018 |
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Feb 10, 2018 10:59
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dont even fink about it posted:Is there a good Soulstorm mod with an executable so I don't have to gently caress about? I know the AI Mod is OK. The Soulstorm Bugfix mod if you're after a significantly cleaned-up vanilla experience - it incorporates the AI mod too. I recommend afterwards installing the two addon mods too (not that I have a vested interest in recommending those...)
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Feb 11, 2018 06:38
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It's a shame. I enjoyed it while I could find games within 5 or so minutes. It unfortunately seems to have met the fate every strategy game release in the past few years have met. Pretty much every multiplayer RTS community dies within 2 - 6 months of the game release, and by dies I mean concurrent players drop dramatically until games are difficult to find, which then feeds the loop. This happens to games that most people even consider good. My favorite in the last while was Grey Goo, but the playerbase for that disappeared so fast it never recovered. The more populated RTS's seem to be all the oldies, and CoH2 (for some reason, though CoH1 is doing quite fine). Makes me wonder if nostalgia plays a large role in it. DoW 3 definitely had some issues but I don't think it really died any faster than every other RTS that gets released nowadays. In fact I'd say it's surprising how long it actually did last.
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Feb 11, 2018 07:36
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Yeah I just don't understand the fascination with trying to cultivate an e-sports video game. So many games and so many man hours have been dumped chasing that dragon and I still don't understand why, or what they would get out of it.
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Feb 11, 2018 07:49
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I think it's because the narrative is that Blizzard = E-Sports, and Blizzard makes loads of money. Nevermind that does two things aren't really connected. I mean jesus if you wanna see what it looks like when a company really genuinely invests in it's multiplayer community (and not just the token buy-your-way-into-this-years-e-sports-event that almost everyone does), look at Command and Conquer 3. They had KANE doing segments for them. Pre and post-match analysis by developers. Great production values. So much money down the drain. If that kind of investment doesn't build a big multiplayer community for one of the biggest names in RTS, it just isn't going to happen.
DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Feb 11, 2018 |
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Feb 11, 2018 12:35
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DatonKallandor posted:I think it's because the narrative is that Blizzard = E-Sports, and Blizzard makes loads of money. Nevermind that does two things aren't really connected. I mean jesus if you wanna see what it looks like when a company really genuinely invests in it's multiplayer community (and not just the token buy-your-way-into-this-years-e-sports-event that almost everyone does), look at Command and Conquer 3. They had KANE doing segments for them. Pre and post-match analysis by developers. Great production values. So much money down the drain. If that kind of investment doesn't build a big multiplayer community for one of the biggest names in RTS, it just isn't going to happen. Blizzard doesn't even really equate esports anymore. The StarCraft 2 scene is pretty dead, although there is still a small brood war scene in Korea. Valve is the biggest esports name these days with dota2 and CSGO, and then it's all smaller companies with mobas. There just doesn't seem to be an esports scene for traditional RTS games.
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Feb 11, 2018 20:39
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There's no RTS esports scene because there's no RTS that supports a sizable casual playerbase which would be interested in watching pros play that game. All of the big name esports games like LoL, DotA, Hearthstone, and CSGO are games with massive casual playerbases of engaged fans who want to see what it's like when people much better than them at the game play. Esports don't function like real life sports, typically people want to be able to play the games they watch and don't usually watch games they never play. Most people looking to play games aren't looking to spin as many plates in their game as a traditional RTS demands, which means that RTS communities die quickly because they don't get new blood. When fuckin' Starcraft 2 can't maintain an audience without going free to play, you know the market for traditional RTS games is dead, or has at least shrunken to a very tiny niche. DoW3 didn't make the plate spinning welcoming or attractive to new players in any way. The game has a giant micro burden insofar as AoE abilities are so prevalent and lethal that a single lapse in micro involves the death of your entire army, while also having enough macro burden that you can't just focus on your army all the time. It managed to be less forgiving for new players than both DoW1(morale break ranged resist + retreat speed meant that mistakes could happen without instant loss) and DoW2(small squad number count and no macro game meant that the player's attention was focused on their army at all times, retreat button allowed small tactical mistakes without loss) in an era where that's not really appealing to most players anymore.
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Feb 11, 2018 21:03
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Khisanth Magus posted:Define how this was a DotA clone Okay so, you don't seem to get it: They tried to appeal to both the moba and starcraft 2 crowd at the same time, not really going far enough for either to find anything of value in this game while at the same time alienating all the old time fans of the series. Its not that they tried to make a DotA Clone, its that they made it look like one from initial impressions, and that is what soured everything almost immediately.
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Feb 11, 2018 22:46
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Gejnor posted:Okay so, you don't seem to get it: They tried to appeal to both the moba and starcraft 2 crowd at the same time, not really going far enough for either to find anything of value in this game while at the same time alienating all the old time fans of the series. Actually they were very obviously, to me at least, aiming towards more vanilla wc3. Which DotA was admittedly a mod of but the gameplay has no real similarities beyond the most barebones comparisons. Or you could say they we're aiming for something that was kind of a hybrid of DoW1 and 2: powerful commanders from 1 with the micro abilities on the commanders and units from 2. The only real problem is that people at the studio mentioned Moba a couple times, probably to try and attract players in that very lucrative market even if their game had no more than a passing resemblance to one. People latched on to that word and went ballistic, with lots of people who never even played it dismissing it as a DotA clone. The game was doomed due to bad word of mouth that it was a "DotA clone" and "ruined DoW by making it into a Moba" by people who dismissed it without playing it.
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Feb 12, 2018 06:12
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