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Oblivion4568238 posted:Man, that's what everyone hated so much? The gyrowing looks real easy to fly compared to helicopters in Toy Commander, it looks like the kind of thing I would have picked up immediately and enjoyed. Really, this whole LP so far makes me want to get the game, I'm not seeing anything half as bad as what I've heard from the people who didn't like it. I get the impression that the complaints about the gyrowing weren't so much for its controls as for it not being the Arwing. You play Starfox to fly around in a cool ship and blow poo poo up, not to hover slowly in a glorified helicopter and hack computers.
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May 26, 2016 22:03
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I get the impression that the complaints about the gyrowing weren't so much for its controls as for it not being the Arwing. You play Starfox to fly around in a cool ship and blow poo poo up, not to hover slowly in a glorified helicopter and hack computers. The controls were the general complaint for Star Fox Zero, but as the next level will show, this is 100% the case.
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May 26, 2016 22:26
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So far I'm getting the impression that the developer's idea here was to basically clone Star Fox 64 with a few extra gimmicks like the new vehicle, which seems to slow down this level because it takes time introducing it in an area with no enemies. This is still pretty early in the game, though.
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May 26, 2016 22:41
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It's a shame they never considered doing anything like making a Descent: Freespace style game. I like the aesthetic and the arcadey-ness of SF64, and it's one of the games that really shaped my childhood and my love of sci fi. Now I like to dogfight in Elite: Dangerous and read Peter Watts, and the thrill of that stretches all the way back to teaching Star Wolf who the best goddamn pilots in the galaxy were.
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May 26, 2016 22:51
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What the heck was with that one second of Muzak when the Gigarilla was chucking containers everywhere? Also, during the briefing scenes, Fox looks like he's bopping his head to an internal tune.
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May 27, 2016 06:42
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what if they gyrowing were instead the hydrowing and you stealthed through water levels I understand why people dislike the change in pace but I don't mind it at all and think the gyrowing controls really well AND wish there were more levels for it to mess around in
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May 28, 2016 06:10
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Maple Leaf posted:Area Three Wait, they captured a secret weapon, and they're holding it on a civillian colony!? I'm thinking that Corneria might deserve to lose this war.
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May 28, 2016 15:59
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Maybe Andross' army was about to deploy the weapon then when the Cornerians captured it and just didn't have time to move it before the recapture attempt.
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May 28, 2016 17:39
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My assumption was that Andross deployed it onto Area Three, but Corneria managed to disable and reprogram it there and you're preventing him from extracting it. Don't worry about it.
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May 28, 2016 17:56
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Nah general pepper is really a war criminal that hides superweapons behind civilians and pays star fox their blood money to defend his tyrannical regime.
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May 28, 2016 18:14
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Ah yes, the 'Gundam federation' method of concealing super weapons. What's the worst that could happen? I was okay with the walker mode goofy as it was, but I gotta say the gyro copter is really not doing it for me. I wonder if Starfox as a series suffers a bit from the expectations we have for playtime these days. The Arwing segments are great and always have been, but making a rail shooter last until it hits the right value:money ratio in a $60 game is tricky. So you get attempts to expand the gameplay with new vehicles, mission types, etc., and they're hit or miss. Mostly miss based on the reviews, but it's still fun to watch at least. Looking forward to the rest.
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May 28, 2016 19:24
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Rangpur posted:Ah yes, the 'Gundam federation' method of concealing super weapons. What's the worst that could happen? Well how else are you supposed to get some idiot kid to fall into the cockpit and lead your forces to victory? Train them? Foolishness!
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May 28, 2016 19:28
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Rangpur posted:making a rail shooter last until it hits the right value:money ratio in a $60 game is tricky. Star Fox 64 is literally perfect in that sense, though. Why do it differently when you are literally remaking the perfect example?
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May 28, 2016 22:21
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May as well crosspost from the Games thread, I just picked up SF0 and did the walker training mission. Using the right stick to rotate for the platforming medal collection had me repeatedly rolling off as I accidentally double-tap. Is there some trick to make that mistake less often, or just getting used to it? Same for flying around while targeting locked like the first boss; it's taking some getting used to and I just want to make sure I'm not missing a trick to make it easier.
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May 28, 2016 23:58
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Bruceski posted:May as well crosspost from the Games thread, I just picked up SF0 and did the walker training mission. Using the right stick to rotate for the platforming medal collection had me repeatedly rolling off as I accidentally double-tap. Is there some trick to make that mistake less often, or just getting used to it? You just have to get used to the walker being weird like that. What I hate is that unless you're holding ZL, the left stick also turns (and walks forward) instead of strafe like it should. On bosses that force target lock, you can still used the cockpit view for lining things up. Either look down or use - to switch the cockpit view onto the TV
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May 29, 2016 04:56
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Zoness Episode 4: Run 1 "Don't worry about it."
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May 30, 2016 19:26
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I'm suddenly very glad I didn't buy this game.
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May 30, 2016 19:54
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I think the only reason you can't use the Arwing in this stage is because jet fighters can't stop fuel beams.
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May 30, 2016 19:57
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To be fair, Zoness was the worst stage in Starfox 64 too. Wasted so many lives trying to get mission accomplished on that level as a kid.
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May 30, 2016 19:59
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nth Term posted:To be fair, Zoness was the worst stage in Starfox 64 too. Really? I don't remember ever having too much trouble with those searchlights way back when (Solar was far worse, in my opinion). Zoness was actually one of my favorites because there was so much stuff to kill. ...This new version doesn't make me a happy camper. 
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May 30, 2016 20:06
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Yeah 64-Zoness was one of my favorites too. This... is not a great translation of the gimmick.
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May 30, 2016 20:17
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I got all excited when I saw Zoness because that was probably my favorite from the original game. And then I watched the video. The frequent robot hacking nonsense was fine. The dodging the searchlights was fine. The flying a helicopter type thing instead of a jet fighter type thing was fine. Removing all the enemies from a shooty game was NOT fine. Plus, visually it went from the 3ds versions super pretty aquatic trash pit to a military base that looks awfully close to a sewer level.
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May 30, 2016 21:02
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Kat's spot gave me some trouble because I didn't know you could hang your robot buddy, so I was looking for some place toe extend a platform. And yoiu can pick up bombs? I blew them up from afar so I never got that tip.
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May 30, 2016 21:12
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So in the "related videos" bar on Youtube, this popped up for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSVbhZY40BA&t=4s All in all it seemed like a pretty good review, considering what we've seen so far.
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May 30, 2016 21:49
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This is not a good level.
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May 30, 2016 22:32
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This does not look like a good game.
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May 31, 2016 00:25
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Honestly, I actually had a bunch of fun with this level. I kinda wish that you got more Gyrocopter levels or training missions or something. It's by far the slowest, but I never was much of a fan of the original Zoness stage from 64 (it was an alright stage, I just liked other stages a lot more), and the whole take on this is pretty neat in general. Though, granted, there's a bonus level version of this stage that's a lot more fast and fun since you gotta speedrun this level with the arwing
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May 31, 2016 01:15
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Zoness in Lylat Wars was fine, this was fine too, the idea that not being a shooty level automatically makes it bad is petty and stifles any attempt to try anything new. When I went into the teleporter at the end of the last level I got excited at the prospect of having to do at least one full level without the arwing because it was the unknown, and the whole thing was playing out like a part-one cliffhanger of a TV show. Realising I had to do a stealth mission felt like a really cool interpretation of the searchlights hook from Lylat Wars; the whole game has a "greatest hits" vibe to it in terms of level concepts, locations, and characters on both sides, so I wanted to see Zoness again, but with everything else being reimagined, why would I want literally the exact same level when it was perfect in Lylat Wars? I want the sense of "familiar, but new" when I start a new level, and I got that. What real complaints about the level were there? The length? 20 minutes is barely any amount of time at all and it only felt noticeable in the video because Maple Leaf kept trying to call back to it while trying really hard to say "this isn't fun or good". Olive Branch said something about everything looking the same or people not being able to keep track of how far they are into the level, which was reaching in both instances. Great Fox being there at the end? They destroyed the enemy's presence on the planet, and if you're going to bring that up, you might as well criticise every level for having the Great Fox anywhere because it doesn't just shoot down at all the enemies. I mean yes: it's a significant change of pace compared to most of the game, I can understand why people wouldn't like it, and you don't have to like it if you don't like it, fine, but it's disingenuous to act like everything is wrong with the level and that it has no substantive redeeming qualities. I didn't have a problem embracing what was going on.
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May 31, 2016 01:23
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The problem with Zoness isn't that it's not fun or good, because it's actually both of those things. The problem is that it's not Star Fox. Star Fox is a rail shooter game where you jump in a jet, shoot a bomb, and wipe out thirty or forty bad guys in one will-placed blast, and then, in Zero's fourth level, you're suddenly doing a stealth mission where you're encouraged to not do exactly that. One of the appeals of Star Fox as a series, at least imo, is how high-adrenaline the game always is: in 64, you fought off an alien invasion! Now you're flying through an asteroid belt! Now you're on the sun! A stealth mission doesn't really jive with that, and the levels are always relatively short and never overstay their welcome, so suddenly playing through one that's twenty minutes long is also wildly off-base. Like I said in the video, far be it from me for telling Platinum Games that they can't do or try anything new and that Zero has to be exactly like 64, but it's okay to say that the gyrowing was a swing at attempting to shake the formula up, and it was a miss. The gyrowing would be a great vehicle in a game not called Star Fox. E: I mean, I know your argument is that we shouldn't complain about it because it's new and different and stifles creativity, but the disconnect between what we've been doing, what we expected, and what we got, is just so jarring. Going from Rail Shooter to Stealth Mission is one of the biggest leaps in genre I can think of. Like, imagine if you're playing Splinter Cell, and about an hour into the game, you race go-karts for a mission. I think OB's complaint about the Great Fox wasn't why it's there, but how it's there, but he'd know better than I would. Look, even the best games often try something new and it doesn't always work out. A lot of people consider Ocarina of Time a masterpiece, but nobody can stand the Water Temple. Star Fox Zero is still an amazing game, and Zoness just happens to be a wart. Maple Leaf fucked around with this message at 03:21 on May 31, 2016 |
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May 31, 2016 03:07
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There is nothing good about Zoness in Star Fox Zero. It is a helicopter stealth mission in the midst of a rail shooter. It features an annoying side-companion to be deployed every two or three minutes in order to be the level. Zoness is a shitpile. It's terrible level of game design shoved in a game which largely succeeds off its middling game design. There's really no defense for Zoness, it's slow, cold garbage.
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May 31, 2016 03:26
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frozentreasure posted:Zoness in Lylat Wars was fine, this was fine too, the idea that not being a shooty level automatically makes it bad is petty and stifles any attempt to try anything new. When I went into the teleporter at the end of the last level I got excited at the prospect of having to do at least one full level without the arwing because it was the unknown, and the whole thing was playing out like a part-one cliffhanger of a TV show. Realising I had to do a stealth mission felt like a really cool interpretation of the searchlights hook from Lylat Wars; the whole game has a "greatest hits" vibe to it in terms of level concepts, locations, and characters on both sides, so I wanted to see Zoness again, but with everything else being reimagined, why would I want literally the exact same level when it was perfect in Lylat Wars? I want the sense of "familiar, but new" when I start a new level, and I got that. It's not a change of pace, it's a complete loss of pace. There really wasn't much gameplay there at all. There was exactly one searchlight dodge that was remotely tense, and what else was there? Looking for enviromental takedowns on one of the rare enemies? Parking next to stoplights and turning them off and on again? The whole leve is the gyrocopter slowly moving forward and pushing buttons to progress. It's like they wanted an exploration based level, but they made it a sewer level and the only things to explore were boring holes that had no substance. 20min isn't too bad for a level, but it is when it's 20 minutes of nothing hapening. e: Maple Leaf posted:Like I said in the video, far be it from me for telling Platinum Games that they can't do or try anything new and that Zero has to be exactly like 64, but it's okay to say that the gyrowing was a swing at attempting to shake the formula up, and it was a miss. The gyrowing would be a great vehicle in a game not called Star Fox. I dunno, I think it could work as a craft for some sort of defense mission in free range mode like the pyramid bases in 64. something where being able to hover in place and turn on a dime would be useful utility for obliterating dots. FoolyCharged fucked around with this message at 03:33 on May 31, 2016 |
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May 31, 2016 03:27
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Zoness reminds me a lot of the on-foot levels from Star Fox Assault in that they're both slow and sprawling and more about exploring. But those latter work better and I like them better (I like Assault, nerds) because they give you tons of enemies to shoot, and I think Zoness here would be more palatable if, yeah, there were points for you to score. The environmental stuff is neat but there isn't very much of it; I think this level suffers from being baaasically the only gyrowing level so all of the proof-of-concept stuff gets thrown in here. And I think the hacking mechanic especially is kinda half-baked. And Kat's inclusion feels very much like a SF64 checkbox. Rogue Squadron Battle for Naboo has a stealth mission where you hijack a gunboat in a river level and it also works way better even though it's a slow change of pace also Kamiya's internet persona is hilarious and I'm pretty sure he's not being 100% sincere when he tells people to gently caress off on twitter more like 95%
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May 31, 2016 04:14
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Maple Leaf posted:A lot of people consider Ocarina of Time a masterpiece, but nobody can stand the Water Temple. Ahem.
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May 31, 2016 04:54
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frozentreasure posted:Ahem. Anybody who likes the Water Temple, much like anybody who likes this level, are about as worthwhile in a conversation about Zelda's strengths/weaknesses as a Dave Matthews Band fan is worthwhile in a conversation about modern rock. You might hold an opinion that others detest, but that doesn't make your minority viewpoint legitimate, it just means you like an objectively lovely thing that only serves to bring down what it is attached to, with zero drawbacks to deleting it from existence. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 31, 2016 05:38
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thecluckmeme posted:Anybody who likes the Water Temple, much like anybody who likes this level, are about as worthwhile in a conversation about Zelda's strengths/weaknesses as a Dave Matthews Band fan is worthwhile in a conversation about modern rock. You might hold an opinion that others detest, but that doesn't make your minority viewpoint legitimate, it just means you like an objectively lovely thing that only serves to bring down what it is attached to, with zero drawbacks to deleting it from existence. I'm sure you can have many meaningful conversations by refusing to engage with anyone who does not already agree with you.
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May 31, 2016 05:58
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Maple Leaf posted:I think OB's complaint about the Great Fox wasn't why it's there, but how it's there, but he'd know better than I would.
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May 31, 2016 06:03
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thecluckmeme posted:Anybody who likes the Water Temple, much like anybody who likes this level, are about as worthwhile in a conversation about Zelda's strengths/weaknesses as a Dave Matthews Band fan is worthwhile in a conversation about modern rock. You might hold an opinion that others detest, but that doesn't make your minority viewpoint legitimate, it just means you like an objectively lovely thing that only serves to bring down what it is attached to, with zero drawbacks to deleting it from existence. The Water Temple is fine, it's the equipment UI that it forces you to constantly dive in and out of that sucks; an issue that was entirely remedied in the 3DS version.
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May 31, 2016 06:11
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Bruceski posted:I'm sure you can have many meaningful conversations by refusing to engage with anyone who does not already agree with you. I'm willing to defend, and talk about defending, some real stupid poo poo in video games, but trying to seriously argue that the water temple or zoness are good things is outright stupid. Nothing is gained by having them included, the game is outright better by just removing them with nothing to replace them. They're pacing failures, implementation failures, and actively detrimental to the replay-value of the game. Zoness is the point that I put this game down for a couple days, and the major reason why I'm probably not going to play it again. Motto posted:The Water Temple is fine, it's the equipment UI that it forces you to constantly dive in and out of that sucks; an issue that was entirely remedied in the 3DS version. The 3DS version takes maybe a nail or two out of the coffin, but the water dungeon's major failing isn't the constant re-equipping of the iron boots, it's the newcomer's constant fiddling with water levels. It absolutely destroys the dungeon pacing in an otherwise well-paced game, and even as a person who's played the game several times, it takes way longer with a magnitude more backtracking than any other dungeon in the game. It's just not good. bawk fucked around with this message at 06:16 on May 31, 2016 |
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May 31, 2016 06:12
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That reminded me of the sewer level from "Shadow of the Empire"
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May 31, 2016 06:14
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thecluckmeme posted:Anybody who likes the Water Temple, much like anybody who likes this level, are about as worthwhile in a conversation about Zelda's strengths/weaknesses as a Dave Matthews Band fan is worthwhile in a conversation about modern rock. You might hold an opinion that others detest, but that doesn't make your minority viewpoint legitimate, it just means you like an objectively lovely thing that only serves to bring down what it is attached to, with zero drawbacks to deleting it from existence. thecluckmeme posted:I'm willing to defend, and talk about defending, some real stupid poo poo in video games, but trying to seriously argue that the water temple or zoness are good things is outright stupid. Nothing is gained by having them included, the game is outright better by just removing them with nothing to replace them. They're pacing failures, implementation failures, and actively detrimental to the replay-value of the game. Zoness is the point that I put this game down for a couple days, and the major reason why I'm probably not going to play it again. on the other hand, nobody's going to care about your opinions when you sound like a jackass e: it's kind of late to edit this but I just mean you're approaching Star Wars prequel levels of hostility in your distaste for these things Looper fucked around with this message at 08:33 on May 31, 2016 |
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May 31, 2016 06:27
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