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I don't know about dark ages, but timing your civics to turncount in civ5 is pretty advanced play, and doesn't reflect on game design or otherwise general enjoyability.
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Dec 2, 2017 08:02
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Aside: yes saving civis, and that was terrible since all the early civics where hot trash and so saving the policies was the right play. Terrible terrible design. Ontopic: Slingshot plays require good familiarity with the game, in addition to 4X "killer instincts" that genre veterans develop. When people in this thread are bitching about the things various civ titles do outstandingly poorly, it's not in-depth balance, but rather stuff like insane AI behavior, broken barbarians, poor this, poor that. If the dark/golden age mechanic allows for intelligent slingshot play, that's fine! Let the player feel smart as he catapults past the AI. As long as the casual, or first impression play of dark ages is fine. That's the stuff of just building stuff that seems relevant, having simple goals, and exploring new mechanics for the first time. The first playthrough is what makes sure that there is an experience playerbase who wants to come back for more. Nobody cares about balance in Civ:BE because it's a bad game from the get-go, while people still complain about Civ5's tradition tree being OP. It's a good sign.
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Dec 2, 2017 09:27
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I don't think there's a lot of overlap of those two player bases, care to explain the reference?
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Dec 6, 2017 12:44
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A good post about civ5's civs and the nature of boring/good, and no doubt the more mechanically interesting ones are better designed, but I think the Celt and Etheopia get a shout out for their super boring +1 faith mechanic being absolute douchebags to deal with. If someone has a pantheon before turn6, it's Boudicea hiding in the woods, with Hale in second place, making every other civ have to scrounge 30+ faith for their lovely pantheon belief. It'd be better if they had more interesting mechanics for sure, but this is probably the best-case scenario of a numerical bonus having game-shaking effects (early. and then they become irrelevant -_-)
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Dec 6, 2017 23:31
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Civ6 is now on humble monthly for like fifteen bucks and I'm so tempted, but I've been following this thread since release and I have a sinking feeling that it's still poo poo, and I'll need to wait another 2-3 years until a "Complete" edition arrives before it's playable/good value/worth my time. 
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Jan 7, 2018 08:51
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Yea, I played a lot of Civ5 (17 bucks, full edition, what value!) and I'm playing Endless Legend a lot recently, so the itch is mildly scratched. Endless Space2 etc.
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Jan 7, 2018 13:22
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Yea, it's hard to discern the validity of griping in this thread since it's all second hand, compared to being able to talk about Civ5 with a grain of salt since I know how to play on Deity. My worry is that I'll buy Civ6, play one game to understand the mechanics, and go into my second game armed with the knowledge that "The AI cannot take a walled city, ever" and start rolling Deity wins while only having to defend myself from religion. That, and the AI is spastic? At last in civ5 it was consistent; the AI will murder you for being weak, and hate you for being strong. Consistency!
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Jan 8, 2018 00:30
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I don't think modders have the level of code penetration
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Jan 8, 2018 11:12
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I challenge the notion that Venice is worse than a default race! Apparently a lot of people got their first deity/(etc) win with Venice, as it really really shoehorns you into playing 'optimally', whether you like it or not.
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Jan 16, 2018 09:04
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Roland Jones posted:(I discovered it reloading an earlier turn and moving a unit another way) How is that not cheating?
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Jan 22, 2018 14:53
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According to some in this thread, the correct course of action was to sit there and continually turn the other cheek, doing no worse than pillaging tiles from Egypt. How else are you supposed to make him like you?
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Jan 23, 2018 00:54
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You ally yourself with schmucks, not world powers. Same as Civ5.
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Jan 23, 2018 15:09
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I've been watching this thread since pre-release, and bought civ6 in the humble monthly for cheap. I waited so long due to all the nay-saying in this thread, but it's been so long that I kinda went into it with starry eyes and excitement. I have a little notepad full of musings and first impressions that I might organize and post later, but I'll just say this: I normally binge 8+ hours when I get a new 4X, no matter how good or bad. It's been two weeks now, and I'm not even halfway through my first Civ6 game. Every time I try to build something small (builder etc) and see that its approximately two tech eras away before finishing, I just give a sad sigh and exit to desktop.
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Feb 7, 2018 16:12
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The Human Crouton posted:I got an emergency where Montezuma took Delhi, and nobody except me accepted the emergency, including Gandhi, who owned the taken city and was already at war with Monty. Upon accepting the Emergency, Gandhi denounced me for warmongering. Gandhi ended up taking the city back himself, and I used my 2600 gold to buy infinite war-carts and destroy Montezuma. I then turned on, and destroyed Gandhi for denouncing me. The expansion we deserve for patronizing this game.
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Feb 10, 2018 16:00
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MarquiseMindfang posted:They keep putting the deluxe edition on sale and never the individual DLCs, which is feeling kind of like a gigantic gently caress you to people who only bought the base game. If I didn't have the game already the DLC Civs would be just £10 more than the base game, for all of them, but as it is my choices are £31 for all the DLCs or £34 for the entire deluxe edition including a base game I don't need. I'd hoped they'd put a bundle out with the DLCs+expac, but no apparently not. What the actual gently caress Firaxis. It's called smart business practices. People who own the base game will either not like it and and stop playing, or like it and are a shoe-in for additional gouging. "Season passes" are sold as pre-ordering, not usually as a break for stingy cunts. The game is going to have to be very old (or selling quite poorly) before you see a "Gold" or "GOTY" edition that's literally everything bundled together for twenty bucks. Don't buy the base game if you're ever looking for value.
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Feb 10, 2018 17:10
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edit; removed Endless Legend Derail. So, help a newbie out who's only just bought this game: What the hell am I doing wrong that all my cities seem like huge shitholes that take a million years to get make anything? I've been settling next to resources, but I think this is the wrong priority and maybe I should be trying to settle near chop-able things instead? I'm not going to bother finishing my first game as Trajan; Industrial districts just unlocked and I cried to see how long it would take to build one in my capital, much less new settlements. Serephina fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Feb 15, 2018 |
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Feb 15, 2018 11:28
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I played two games of Beyond Earth, and I felt that it was painfully obvious (to me, imo!) that they'd just grabbed the Civ5 AI and dropped it in with as close to zero adjustments as possible. The poor opponents have no goddamn idea how to to basic 4X infrastructure/snowball stuff, absolutely NEVER specialize in any of the 3 thematic traits (I forget their names now), and I suspect it had something to do with not being able to navigate the tech web. Like, in Civ5, you could pick a random tech every time you where prompted, and still chug along through the ages fair enough. But the AI in BE just wallows along in the stone ages for aeons. BE was all eye candy and marketing about ideaologies. It's barely even a game however, as the AI has no goddamn idea how to play with board & rules it has been presented with.
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Feb 18, 2018 16:35
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Civ5 talk: What are your social policies currently? That plays a big part in how easy some victory conditions are.
So, a sidetrack on why food is God and Tradition is OP. Food begets more food, and there is effectively no max pop on your cities. Population is good (even if it's working a lovely 2-3 yield tile) because 1 pop = 1 science. Science is God because for military fights in 1UPT, quality > quantity, so having units be a tech level up, live longer, and get levels will result in an infinitely stronger military for a much lower production. Science obviously also begets more science and food. But 1 pop = 1 unhappiness, so there's the rub. Unless you have Tradition, which gives your capital -50% unhappiness, which is by and far the most efficient way of getting population (and hence, science) up without blowing all your production on happiness buildings. This is all a huge aside, and is only presented as a concept for idle musings for when you ask yourself "I wonder what infrastructure I should be caring about?" when nothing else is pressing. I wouldn't worry about not having gone Tradition etc, this is all very 'optimal' and doesn't matter for anything other than multiplayer and Deity. Pick liberty or Piety and go hog wild. edit: patronage != tradition, it was late at night, forgive me Serephina fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Feb 28, 2018 |
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Feb 27, 2018 02:02
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Value-for-money there's no comparison. I don't have Rise&Fall, and I prefer Civ5 anways, so I can't really comment about objective comparisons.
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Mar 1, 2018 05:09
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Careful now. Civ6 might be a trash fire, but the XCOM series has been hitting it out of the park. Sure, they aren't patching anything ever, but at least the game you paid for is there and done well. I cannot possibly imagine trying to play Stellaris again.
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Mar 11, 2018 03:04
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markus_cz posted:My wet dream is a city builder applied to the scale of planets, asteroids, star systems. Oh man I played exactly that a few years ago. It's a very old game, DOS-era but with gfx (so like, the first X-com). You're setting up civilization for mankind in a new solar system, so you explore planets, find good spots for a city, build the city up vertically, have the cities (one per planet/moon) specialize a bit and send their surpluses to each other, either via manual shuttling early game, or a huge fuckoff mass-driver lategame. Eventually the precurser race that was dormant wakes up and you suddenly have to deal with Crisis' everywhere such as the local flora eating the cities alive, of a doomsday device aimed at the sun. I really wish I could remember the name of it, it was very dated but had held up well for being 20 years old.
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Mar 12, 2018 14:30
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Oh yea, it was also realtime (?) and the planet exploration/scavenging segments where very reminiscent of Star Control 2's lander gameplay. Its one of those beautiful old games that didn't have a genre to fit into, so it just did whatever seemed cool. It's gonna annoy me for ages now, what on earth WAS it called?
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Mar 12, 2018 15:03
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Tyrel Lohr posted:I'm pretty sure you're talking about Alien Legacy. Boom! Ty. One quick search on steam shows no hits... second search on google shows it playable in-browser with DL links as abandonware? I hope mentioning this isn't all Filez. So yea, play it if you want city building on a solar system scale.
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Mar 13, 2018 12:28
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That is amazing and potentially game-changing, literally. I remember something almost identical happened in Diablo2; a community called the LurkerLounge was poking about on why the AoE hit-detection seemed so bloody wonky. It seemed that at random times an aoe-check ability (anyhing from fireballs to DoT auras) would suddenly hit something comically far away. So they did extensive in-game testing. They got a player Paladin many points in a Frost-slowing aura, and set him hostile to other players. The paladin sat idle, while other players whould carefully toe around seeing where the edge of the aura would start/stop to slow, and drop a tiny pile of gold at the spot. It eventually traced out a shape, and thanks to the aura being quite large (several screens worth), it was clear what the shape was; a star. Instead of a circle as you'd expect. The Star's "points" where at a 45 degree offset from the game's internal grid, and asymptotically extended towards infinity. The star's closest points actually matched the printed in-game distance in meters. After a lot of brainstorming on why the bizarre shape, one guy casually walked in and pointed it out: when calculating a circle, you use the formula r^2 = (y^2 + x^2) (assuming centered on zero). However, if you typo the plus into a minus, ie r^2 = (x^2 - y^2), it traces a star... The game's hit detection for EVERY loving AOE DISTANCE CHECK was hosed due to a high school level error. This had been in for years and years and the odd behavior (if not it's cause) was well known. It was quietly fixed in the next patch, with no credit to the LurkerLounge. Which, this is where things get really funny, was a huge mistake since the bug had been in since literally the first build, and it totally hosed all sorts of game balance to have everyone (and -thing's) AoE nerfed hard, roughly by half empirically. Rather than quickly go trough and just incrase the AoE for everything (now with correct hit-calcs), Blizzard just reintroduced to the bug quietly in the next patch. The End.
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Mar 14, 2018 09:58
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I guess the point of that story is that this is more-than-plausibly the issue, and sure as gently caress StraitWhiteShark will get zero credit for it.
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Mar 14, 2018 09:59
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Is it safe to found a religion in another's holy city, after capturing it? Is this even a good idea? The idea is to be a cheap rear end and have only one less city to convert.
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Mar 17, 2018 04:54
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Update: using another dude's Holy city to found my own will not only flip the city itself, but also flipped half of the remaining old religion (conquered) cities to my new religion? (in addition to a few of my own founded cities across the continent). I have no idea on the mechanics of that. edit: vv Awesome, thanks. I didn't quite see the pattern, but that makes sense. There's a few niggly details here and there that I wish had more thorough explanations, this was just one of them I guess. Serephina fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Mar 17, 2018 |
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Mar 17, 2018 07:56
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Tip from a noob who's 3/4 through my second game, after my first was a disaster. The difference? Ignored food, Industry is King, and I made sure to rush Industrial sectors quick smart. Sometime around Medieval I snowballed out of the pack despite not really knowing what I was doing. I suppose if you want to put some effort into it, be aware that industrial and entertainment (assuming you even make the latter) districts have higher tier buildings that affect cities within 6 hexes. But you can't stack them (anymore) so it's not sometime to min-max as you can kind of wing it after the fact.
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Mar 19, 2018 15:01
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Roland Jones posted:The AI plays significantly better than they do.
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Mar 20, 2018 11:18
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chaosapiant posted:I've also decided that Civ V has the best game narrator/voice over. I like the novelty of Leonard Nimoy and Sean Bean, but the other dude's delivery sounded like an old sage who'd actually studied and chronicled the rise and fall of civilizations. This hot take is so incontestable it's actually cold hard cement.
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Mar 21, 2018 02:44
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It's not even some obscure pro-strat, getting early slingers/archers. There is a tech boost right there, asking for 3 archers.
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Mar 21, 2018 10:38
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They're fixing the YEILD bug.
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Mar 21, 2018 23:16
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Is it more or less of a shitshow that Civ6's combat? I'm talking single player here.
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Mar 22, 2018 06:08
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:I didn't play the game for very long and I'm sure there's some redeeming features to it, but it might be the worst strategy gameplay I've ever experienced. You input commands as if you control units directly (I.E. use offensive abilities on this enemy, or use a support ability in this area), but it's up to the whims of the AI whether your units will do as they're told. Combat is slow as hell, and the semi-automation doesn't actually do anything to speed it up. I think there's also some kind of reinforcement system, which lets you pull in units from way off, so there's always a chance of getting hosed over because the enemy had loads of units somewhere deep in the FoW. Sorry I was being facetious, I've played the everloving crap out of EL and I love it. It's main fault is that the AI isn't competitive, with a host of other small grumbles. It's still a great game imo! I'd actually mis-read StraightWhiteShark's post as "Endless Space 2" which I'd completely agree is a bit odd. But EL? The combat is fine. It's very reminiscent of AoW. You can always insta-combat, or turn the speed up to 4x and semi-automate it and have it be done in 15s. Which is fine for a game about extremely expensive stacks. It's actually completely unfair to compare the two; units in EL have like 6 different stats and interact exotically; Civ units have 2 stats and just bump into each other. Different games, apples and oranges.
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Mar 22, 2018 08:07
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If your units are running off being weird in EL, it's because you've given them an order they're not able to follow, ie attack something outside of their move range. So after the order failure, they check their behavior, aggro/defensive/hold pos, and the default is aggro, so they wander over and hit whatever they can. Paying close attention to initiative order and not letting the melee units run ahead willy nilly will generally result in units following your commands pin-point. You can queue move&attack with ctl. You can have the AI play for you, but it's dumb, and you can quick-combat if you vastly outnumber them. I play at 4x combat speed, just to speed things up since the animations are pretty, but slow. The tactical combat is fine, functional, and probably a lot more tense in multiplayer. EL has been built around it, it's part of the game and it's appeal. If people think it's too much effort, and rather would have combat be a more abstracted function of a 4X's empire's industrial power, with straightforward number-bumping to keep things simple, that's fine also. Civ has it, I like civ, there's nothing wrong with it (AI issues aside). I'm sorry for this derail, back to civ6 talk.
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Mar 22, 2018 14:29
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So, I was a very late adopter since I had a hunch that release-day Civ would be a mess, so I got it in the Humble Bundle a small while ago and did a playthrough, documenting all of my first impressions as they arose. My first run was as Rome, planted near a desert with fertile food tiles. I thought this was fine, so I played it out, not knowing that food-sans-production is useless. I gave up around when I saw how long it was going to take to build an industrial district. My second game was as Germany, and it planted me one tile away from having 3 stone resoures in my starting 8 tiles. So yea, different games.Civ6 impressions posted:Game is hard to read the terrain; "Ugly", but not aesthetically There where a few along the lines of "WHERE IS X??" that I deleted when I found what I was looking for. In retrospect, I shouldn't have deleted them since it showed some UI issues.
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Mar 24, 2018 12:14
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Spying is fiddly as gently caress, I would not call it well implemented.
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Mar 28, 2018 02:32
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Civ6 expansion: We've added more content! No, it's not working as intended, why do you ask?
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Mar 30, 2018 01:33
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After finishing my second run-through on, errr, two notches above prince (?), I've got to say that I've lost any desire to keep playing VI. (You can skip this) I decided to be a bit more pacifist, chose China and spammed some early wonders then mass expanded, avoiding conflict. Germany ate a city state and forward-expanded, I held off some AI aggression, then allied with Russia and we took those two cities off of Germany. Russia kept one, and I liberated the City state - The entire reason I went to war. Germany would denounce me for the rest of the game as a warmonger, despite him having just done worse and all I did was liberate. Alllll through the game, starting from the classical era. I never touched him again. Spain, who DoW'd me before, got two cities taken off of him an era or two later since Russia was getting antsy. Spain also hated me for the rest of the game, but that's 100% ok. During all of this Russia ate two of my city states that I was surizan of. The game doesn't allow me to ask him to stop, and I can't DoW him since he's an ally/friend. loving game. I eventually Broke friendship with Russia, built a huge Great Wall, and ate his army defensively during the Industrial era. He had about 12-15 cities, I took two lovely forward ones, one of which was the one he took off of Germany so long ago, and he immediately sued for peace, giving up literally 10+ cities, EVERYTHING but his capital. Fwiw I was nowhere near the rest of his cities, and they where all walled so it was going to take ages. We literally swapped places in score, for no good reason. I gave the newly-captured German city back to Germany, he said thanks then denounced me again for being a warmonger. Maybe If I had liberated instead of giving it back? Anyways, thanks for nothing. Meanwhile, on the other continent, Greece and Australia are at each other's throats. I'm ALLIED with both, but they don't blink an eye for 4+ eras as I'm allied with their mortal foe. Civ5 literally did this better. Game ended with me hitting end turn a lot as I got my otherwise-peaceful cultural victory. (You can tune back in now) So yea, there's a lot of systems in CivVI, some are amazing like districts, others need polish like espionage etc, but none of that really matters at all. Civ is a game of you v your opponents, the AI playing a foil to the Player, giving them competition and interactions, so it's not just a solitaire run to the space race. The AI being so bad, and not just being "bad at civ" (something we've been used to for a few civ entries now), but actually completely pointless to interact with, ruins the game. You could create a small mod where the only diplomatic state allowed is War, and the game would barely change. i don't know what more to say
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Apr 7, 2018 03:13
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Pewdiepie posted:YOu can just click past the tech quotes. I can't believe nobody else has brought up how the goddamn tech quotes repeat themselves twice. First when you get a new turn, the voiceover starts, and then it RESETS when you finally click down to the tech popup itself. It drove me nuts, how the hell hasn't anyone else complained about this?
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Apr 9, 2018 02:38
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