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Popular Thug Drink posted:the sims was pitched as a virtual dollhouse, so i'd make the pedantic distinction of calling it a video toy rather than a video game - there's no narrative or even metaphor to critique, it's nothing more than a sandbox for people to derive amusement from on their own terms Further pedantry, I don't think that's enough to distinguish toy from game. Tetris doesn't have a narrative or metaphor either--what does anything that happens in Tetris mean? But it's obviously a game: the player takes actions that affect the game state and there are developer-defined win and loss conditions.
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May 27, 2016 21:02
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Popular Thug Drink posted:tetris has an explicit goal, to last as long as possible while following the rules of tetris. the sims doesn't have any explicit goal, you get some simulated people to lord over and generally dick around with. i dont think there's a significant distinction between toy and game when it comes to entertainment value, i'm just trying to differentiate between a board game like monopoly and something like a pile of legos, or crayons + paper where it's really just a tool for pretending Yeah that's my point, you didn't mention goal before.
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May 28, 2016 02:03
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Wales Grey posted:VNs, especially kinetic novels, aren't games, they're glorified choose-your-own-adventure novels. Oh boy, now are we going to retread the IF community's "choice games aren't games" arguments from the 90s? 
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May 30, 2016 07:30
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Dr. Stab posted:That interaction is part of the framework in which the film is presented and not the film itself. This. Saying "all home video releases are interactive because menus" is akin to saying "all books are interactive because you can chop them up and rearrange the pages  " Yes, you can, but that's an artifact of the way the thing is produced in its physical medium. It's external to the thing itself.Internaut! posted:
To some degree it might be social signalling, flattering their audience by positively comparing popular thing to famous examples from other media. It's not necessarily that they're highbrow consumers of refined art so much as it flatters them to think they are. Plus, as mentioned about fandoms, it's easier to write this way, praising popular things with fan-based audiences, than the opposite.
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May 31, 2016 15:18
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Flip Yr Wig posted:A preset victory condition that results in some kind of game-ending screen seems like a poor necessary component of a game. Sandbox sims like SimCity or Paradox games have predefined rules for interacting with the world, limits on what can and cannot be done, and clear (if often obtuse) feedback mechanisms that tell the player what effect their interactions have made on the world. The victory condition is decided on by the player within the context of those rules, and almost all of those games lead a player toward choosing certain types of goals over others (ie, make this particularly enticing number bigger). The victory condition is an emergent property of the game and how the player approaches it, rather than a clear ending point, but it's still there. Sandbox games like Lego or Erector Sets have predefined rules for interacting with the world, physical limits on what can and cannot be built, and clear feedback mechanisms that tell the player what effect their interactions have made on the world. The victory condition is decided on by the player within the context of those rules, and almost all of those games lead a player toward choosing certain types of goals over others (ie, make this particularly enticing structure bigger). The victory condition is an emergent property of the game and how the player approaches it, rather than a clear ending point, but it's still there. Ipso facto toys do not exist.
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Jun 3, 2016 18:22
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