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Number of fans is not really a good benchmark because two larger ones can be just as effective at lower RPM. The high-end models with 3 fans usually also come with a huge heatsink that frequently doesn't fit into SFF cases. On the other hand, tiny coolers with 3 fans might still be annoyingly loud if built poorly.
orcane fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Feb 15, 2020 |
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Feb 15, 2020 14:25
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| # ¿ May 16, 2024 00:24 |
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What's the point of using version numbering if you reset the numbers even retroactively every new release  USB 3.0 / 3.1 / 3.2 for the different Gbps variants would have been absolutely fine and clear so I guess that would have been too easy.
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Feb 23, 2020 17:55
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Tab8715 posted:I hit the trigger earlier, Reality posted:Corsair vengeance LPX works if you use the stock blackridge fan or NF-A9x14. You’ll have to import ultra low profile ram for a 120mm fan. Canna Happy posted:I don't think you're going to be able to fit a fan under a sfx-l psu in the dan. I'd personally go with an sfx unit. An SFX-L PSU leaves no room for HDD/SSD/fan underneath the PSU, although in my experience a fan there doesn't really do much even with a smaller SFX unit because it will have a ton of cables in the way of airflow. You will not have much room for cable management with the SFX-L PSU either, so the custom cables are probably "required" (good luck!). A fan under the mainboard mostly helps with airflow over the VRM/RAM I think. I only have a V2 so it has room if I bend the 3M riser harder, but no mounting holes and I wasn't going to disassemble everything again to try. IIRC most cooler tests in the A4 have shown that CPU coolers blowing onto the CPU/mainboard are better than configurations where the cooler was trying to exhaust air. If you add a fan shroud (3d print, cardboard, etc.) it gets even better because that avoids recycling warm air from inside the case. And if you're still not happy with temperatures at that point, removing the I/O shield will let air exhaust more easily.
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Feb 27, 2020 17:40
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Tab8715 posted:drat it. The current SFX PSUs like the Corsair SF series are inaudible over the CPU / GPU fans under load, and should mostly stay quiet while the PC is idle because the fan doesn't have to run in the first place, so a 120mm fan wouldn't help at all. The SF 600 Platinum should be plenty and you get sleeved cables with it, which are a bit too long for the A4 but the SFX PSU leaves room to hide them. You could still use custom cables if you can source them later.
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Feb 28, 2020 09:31
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There was an optional window panel during one of the earlier releases of the case, but the thermals were significantly worse with it. Not sure if it's still being made. Are you using a blower cooler GPU? Those always have terrible acoustics under load.
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Mar 3, 2020 08:17
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Have you worked out which fans are loud enough to be annoying you? If it's the GPU or PSU, don't expect a real improvement. I recently switched my A4 CPU fan (the single 92mm/15mm fan that came with the NH-L9a-AM4) to a quieter fan curve in the BIOS and the computer is virtually silent until the GPU fans turn on.
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Mar 18, 2020 03:47
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Llamadeus posted:The airflow also seems pretty bad:
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Mar 18, 2020 22:44
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The guy in the YouTube video did that and only got reasonable temperatures when he also removed the bottom shell I think. German testers said the pretty tops also completely choke radiators, requiring the perforated top cover (ruining part of the look) and another German website tried air cooling and said the 80mm fan is completely inadequate but using the perforated top cover with a 120mm fan venting out of the top works fine for the CPU. So the stylish tempered glass or wood panels on top are completely unsuitable for cooling the CPU and the bottom design is terrible for GPU cooling in general. I guess you could cool low power stuff in there if you don't like the look of or think computers shouldn't be as small as an Asrock DeskMini (with eg. a Ryzen APU).
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Mar 19, 2020 18:58
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The creator of the case even says that the fan below the mainboard will not help cooling the CPU but that it can help with RAM/VRM temps. I'm not surprised the spot below the PSU didn't help either, because that was my experience too. I used Noctua's NF-A9x14 (slightly higher static pressure, obviously lower airflow than the NF-A12x15) in my Dan on two different CPUs and they always ran virtually silent at like 1100 rpm in idle, that's normal for low profile coolers in this case. The DAN's 50 mm clearance is just not enough room for heatsinks to dissipate a lot of heat, so fans will have to run at high RPM unless you're using low-power CPUs or "notebook" settings, like a very low long-term TDP. That's just the nature of these tiny SFF boxes: Small/silent/powerful, pick two  That said, if you're not happy with the mainboard's BIOS- or software utility for fan speeds, I think people use Argus Monitor to customize fan curves nowadays.
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Apr 9, 2020 09:15
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VulgarandStupid posted:Get the Asetek 92mm CLC and be done with it.
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Apr 9, 2020 10:39
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Tab8715 posted:How much would using a radiator for cooling help with noise levels? orcane posted:The exact same 92mm fan cooling the radiator isn't going to spin much slower, if at all.  Since the fan is focused on just cooling heat from the CPU in the radiator, it can probably run a wee bit slower. On the other hand there will also be pump noise and now you don't have airflow around the CPU socket (VRM, RAM, possibly NVMe) so that 92mm fan below the mainboard has to stay and run too. That's specifically for the DAN A4 in default setups. There's an optional bracket to fit a 120mm AIO (requires an SFX PSU, not SFX-L, and a short ITX GPU) that would be slightly better I guess. Also, some people jury-rigged the case to fit even larger AIOs but then you're looking at extensive modding of the case and attaching stuff externally (eg. the PSU or radiator).
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Apr 10, 2020 10:39
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Realistically that's the only way if a Noctua NF-A12x15 is supposedly too loud. A 120mm tower cooler (eg.) (requires an even bigger case tho) or a 240mm radiator is simply going to handle modern CPUs better and as long as you use sensible BIOS settings for the CPU they will not need their fans at 100% speed. Although I built several computers with the DAN A4 by now and it's usually the GPU that determines how loud the computer gets - with the CPU you simply tweak the fan curve and TDP/OC settings so the NF-A9x14 can keep it reasonably cool. Even at 2500 rpm the fan is not "jet engine" loud but a lot of 2-slot GPUs actually are.
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Apr 10, 2020 20:13
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Even if there is something wonky with the thermal sensors or CPU, I can already tell you that a 92mm low profile fan will not cool a 65W CPU (even delidded) at 1200 rpm under load. Maybe if you drastically cut the CPU's TDP to Ultrabook levels. The NF-A9x14 is great for what it achieves but a 92 mm low profile fan is still tiny and there's a reason the one they sell with the NH-L9a/i coolers goes up to 2500 rpm (regular A9x14 PWM goes up to 2200). 1000-1200 rpm is the speed at which my DAN A4 with Ryzen 2700X idles. It's hardly perceptible at this rpm in my setup so either your fan/mainboard are reporting wrong speeds or your setup introduces a ton of air turbulence. If the two bottom fans don't do anything for CPU temps a third one on top won't either BTW. Before delidding I would start from scratch, check rpm and noise with only the Black Ridge heatsink + 120mm fan, with the bottom fans disabled and with a fan shroud around the Black Ridge (easy to build with cardboard eg.) so the CPU cooler can't recycle warm air from inside the case. orcane fucked around with this message at 10:51 on Apr 11, 2020 |
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Apr 11, 2020 10:42
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The quoted ~20°C temperature drop is usually just "normal" delidding as in, replace toothpaste with something like Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut, then reattaching the heat spreader. But that's load numbers, not idle (eg. stress testing with Prime95 or w/e). If you need direct die cooling to handle a 65W CPU there's still something wrong though.
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Apr 17, 2020 22:33
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That fan speed and temp seems normal for Prime95, considering you're not using liquid metal between die and heat spreader. What are your BIOS settings regarding TDP, multicore enhancements and AVX offset (unless you ran Prime with AVX off)?
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Apr 18, 2020 00:29
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Yeah it's still 20 degrees below throttling so that's not even "super" high. The "65W" i7-8700 will draw almost 150 W (ie. only a little bit less than the "95W" i7-8700k) with AVX if you let it. It's pretty neat that we're running these things with low profile coolers at all 
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Apr 18, 2020 16:56
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Comedy option: Thermolab/Cooltek LP53 (optional: zip-tie quieter fan to it). It's probably more expensive than a NH-L9i though It's a really good copper heatsink, though.
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Apr 29, 2020 23:30
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Scientist Al Gore posted:I wonder if any of the new Z490 Intel boards are compatible with low profile heatsinks, the new VRM heat sinks are huge. It will be harder for coolers like the Alpenföhn Black Ridge whose footprint is larger than the clearance zone and parts of the cooler overlap VRM setups or the PCI-e slot.
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May 1, 2020 09:58
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I think if a 140mm fan was feasible in that case Dan would have tried it for his HSLP-48 project (which was sold off to EKL who made the Black Ridge, because the original boutique / Kickstarter version wouldn't have been economically viable).
orcane fucked around with this message at 21:23 on May 1, 2020 |
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May 1, 2020 21:15
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It's not that crazy, considering some people remove their I/O shields in order to let warm air escape more easily. You ccould try to MacGyver a tiny fan in there to help 
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May 3, 2020 22:33
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They're using a fan but it's apparently not blowing out the back: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/ROG-STRIX-Z490-I-GAMING/overview/ Asrock uses two fans on their TB3 version but, same deal as Asus (no room for rear exhaust): https://www.asrock.com/MB/Intel/Z490%20Phantom%20Gaming-ITXTB3/index.asp Maybe MSI? It has holes at least https://www.anandtech.com/show/15723/the-intel-z490-motherboard-overview/40
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May 4, 2020 09:12
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Coredump posted:Wish there were more cases that copied the Corsair One lay out. Pretty much a vertical sandwich case with a big exhaust fan at the top to draw air thru side mounted radiators. If other manufacturers were going to copy the idea make it wide enough to put fans on the side radiators instead of relying solely on the big top fan as Corsair does.
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May 4, 2020 16:12
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The Dan C4 will apparently grow a little bit more in order to take 3-slot GPUs (in the classic layout). The redesigned version is interesting to me again, a small tower cooler and a thicker GPU should allow quieter operation than the A4's tiny top-down coolers and 2-slot GPUs which are often the cheapest loudest SKUs of recent high-end cards (I wrote about the original design in the past, it was noticeably larger but still had size/cooling restrictions closer to the A4). It mostly looks like this right now:  The first draft was mostly aimed at watercooling and supported a 240mm radiator at the bottom + a 2-slot GPU in sandwich mode. I hope he can finish it this year.
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May 5, 2020 11:15
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Sandwich mode still exists: and you can flip the entire case so the radiator is on top: 
orcane fucked around with this message at 18:56 on May 5, 2020 |
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May 5, 2020 18:44
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It can already be put there? And the objective isn't to stay as small as possible anymore. The original iteration of the case was like that but you were seriously limited in hardware choice and Dan said it was horrible to build the computer, when he tried it in his prototype. The case is more about SFF but with flexibility now (it first got about 10 mm wider to accomodate GPUs in a normal layout and now 6mm bigger to also fit 3-slot GPUs). You can use decent air coolers or watercooling and fat (cooler/quieter) GPUs without losing CPU cooler or radiator clearance. I like it because GPUs aren't getting smaller and people can do fine air-cooled builds in the case if they want, too.
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May 6, 2020 00:41
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Scientist Al Gore posted:It can be but then you have extra wasted space! I will admit though assembling the Dan A4 was not easy. The tolerances are quite extreme. And it was worse than the A4, apparently.
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May 6, 2020 09:24
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Intel even has a white paper on it https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/docs/io/universal-serial-bus/usb3-frequency-interference-paper.html
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Jul 2, 2020 20:02
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Honestly, if upgradeability with entirely unknown future parts is your main concern, don't buy a specialized case like the N1 that doesn't let you freely pick or replace the PSU and cooler/AIO. Although the 650 W PSU will probably not become a problem, since you're not doing extreme overclocking in that case (and can't run 2 GPUs and ten HDDs to begin with).
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Jul 10, 2020 09:34
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Repasting would only help if it eliminates something that went wrong completely (eg. people who forgot to remove the plastic sheet under the cooler) but if you applied your paste properly I'd expect like a 5°C difference, not almost 20.Warmachine posted:A bit of cursory searching suggests 50-55C is normal idle, which is loving bonkers to me on Team Blue but if I recall what I watched last night correctly AMD's chips "target" the 60-65C area with PB2. The T_die of my 2700X (which is roughly as warm as a 3600) is usually in the area of 35-45°C when it's just sitting there and that's in a Dan A4 (no case airflow) with a Noctua NH-L9a (way smaller than the stock cooler) on Windows Balanced. I have a long-term power limit of 95W set, but that affects boost clocks, not idle clocks/temperatures.
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Jul 25, 2020 22:28
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The case is large enough so it doesn't restrict the size of your GPU and coolers much, and it can use a "normal" setup with front to rear/top airflow, so a top-down cooler isn't strictly necessary . The smaller cases often don't have actual airflow or room for tower coolers, so they use top-down coolers to pull in air from the outside and - preferably - cool the mainboard's VRM and RAM. The Ryzen stock cooler should work fine in terms of cooling, but it's somewhat loud at higher RPM (ie. when it's not idle). Personally I would actually put the NH-U12A in it but the cooler is expensive (and overkill), so I can see why you wouldn't want to .
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Aug 10, 2020 08:52
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If it works like the 3600X the TDP difference is in default behaviour, if you set the limits accordingly in the BIOS you can probably make them draw equal amounts of power (but the 3600XT might be very slightly faster/more efficient there). It's not really worth $80 in cases where you can run them at their "auto-OC" boost clocks all day long and even less so in SFF cases where you may or may not want to limit their long term power consumption somewhat. Also people said the case just about fits the NH-U12A with a height of 158 mm despite of the official clearance saying 155 mm max. The Hyper 212 is 159 mm though so  Oh also the B550 chipset was officially released in mid June so yeah. For a 3600 you could technically also use a B450 mainboard (with a minor risk of getting one that needs a BIOS update), but B550 (and some X570) boards can have faster LAN and WLAN. The rest of the updated specs don't matter much in SFF PCs. orcane fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Aug 10, 2020 |
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Aug 10, 2020 14:50
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I looked at that board for a hypothetical refresh of my Dan A4 build, it's cool unless you need the SATA ports in which case the angled connectors are a huge headache in the very small cases.
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Oct 12, 2020 17:16
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Duck and Cover posted:Question time do you think it's possible to fit a 157.5mm cpu cooler in an nr200p with the glass on? https://www.scytheus.com/mugen-5-argb-plus Cooler master says no 153mm . Hardwarecanuck says 158 to 159. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMP3-881X5o Apparently the offsets are also like 6mm and maybe I could get the extra mm needed by going with smaller ones? Source: Pre-release thread by someone from CM
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Oct 23, 2020 09:13
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Zero VGS posted:They did it, the absolute mad lads... 
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Dec 9, 2020 15:36
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To be honest the spinning rust drive in any SFF case is way worse than a few cables and mismatched colors
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Dec 13, 2020 23:36
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ephori posted:I have the following right now in a Dan A4: Canna Happy posted:B550/x570 and a 5600x would most likely be my pick for an a4. You could 3d print a fan bracket and a duct for your c7 and put a noctua on it or maybe use a noctua L9 and a duct. Water cooling options in a Dan are really limited, your only option is the 645lt from what I recall. For water, the 645LT is the only option beyond sticking custom loops and larger radiators outside the case (some people do crazy things in the name of their SFF gods ), it's not really better than a properly set up air cooler in the case IIRC.In terms of air coolers the Noctua L9a-AM4 is a good option that doesn't require much tinkering - the only thing you should put on it is a custom fan duct (3d print or cardboard) to avoid recycling hot air. If VRM/RAM temperatures are a concern you can stick a 120x15 mm fan on it with a custom adapter, on the L9i that didn't help but the L9a heatsink is larger so you get 1-2 degrees and some more air on the mainboard. There are a few ways to customize / optimize the CPU side by combining silent fans of your choice with different coolers' heatsinks. Like reusing the C7 with a better fan (you can find 3d printable adapters on Thingiverse eg.) like eg. a Noctua A9x14, or stick one of those under the Alpenföhn Black Ridge or on top of the Thermalright AXP-90R full copper version. The main problem with noise in the A4 is running CPUs unlocked / auto-overclocked (I'd recommend setting a long term TDP limit of like 90 W, the CPU will still boost but not constantly), fan curves that make the fans ramp up and down all the time (very noticeable with Ryzens' boost behaviour) and having intake fans too close to the vented panels. If you're using (or planning to use) a fan underneath the mainboard you should make it push out the air at the bottom for that reason. How is the EVGA RTX 3080 fitting and working for you? I always imagined it must be sort of loud in that case, but I was thinking about trying to get one for my A4 eventually.
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Dec 30, 2020 01:35
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Arzachel posted:It also doesn't have bios flashback which is probably the bigger issue.
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Mar 3, 2021 10:59
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Are you running these CPUs unlocked (ie. unlimited TDP) or WTF?
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Apr 4, 2021 13:07
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buglord posted:Not sure how easy it is with AMD CPUs but some undervolting and power limiting in the bios has done wonders for me on Intel.  behind a "do you want to enable overclocking, if your computer explodes that's on you okay?" prompt) but it's not hard at all, yeah.
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Apr 4, 2021 19:37
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Technically the NH-U12A is better and bigger but just a few posts ago people were complaining it was too hot/loud which is utterly to me, I guess it won't help if you run a dysfunctional case fan setup?
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Apr 5, 2021 19:20
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