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Canna Happy posted:Rip dual slot gpu cases. Dan scrapped the original ideas for the A4-H20/C4-SFX, Lian Li is making a version of those drafts as the A4-H20 now and it has room for 2.7-slot GPUs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3S5y_uaFKQ&t=12s His C4-SFX redesign is closer in size to the Ncase M1 or NR200 now and takes up to 3-slot GPUs:  The A4 will get side panels that add some room for thicker GPUs (and CPU coolers), and he considers making the next revision wider to allow for 2.5 slot GPUs at least:   It's clear that "make case that only works with 5-10 specific GPU models of the latest generation" is not viable anymore.
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Apr 13, 2021 17:49
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Kunabomber posted:It's not viable because you can't choose what GPU SKU you get anymore, you just take whatever they have in stock if you're lucky.
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Apr 14, 2021 18:45
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Paul MaudDib posted:I assume 3090 also doesn't do too well since there's probably no airflow over the backplate/VRAM chips? The main problem is the RTX 3000 FE through-fans are trapping hot air behind the card, people got significantly better temps by removing the plastic sheet between mainboard and GPU, and adding a few mm with taller standoffs. But that only works if you're not using every last mm to fit the GPU in the first place.
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May 15, 2021 08:24
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Yeah a bottom fan should help with that (also a bunch of 3rd party coolers have cutouts in the backplate for the last fan to blow through, similar problem as the FE).
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May 15, 2021 09:11
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Still waiting on having money again then I'll throw a Quadro RTX A5000 and a Ryzen 5900X (or 6800/6900 by then) into a Dan A4. The current (and rumoured future) GPU generation has not been kind to <10l SFF cases.
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Dec 21, 2021 12:38
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ijyt posted:I was hitting 80C with mine in an NR200 and using an NH-U12A :/ 
orcane fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Dec 23, 2021 |
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Dec 23, 2021 17:53
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SFF fans will pay a premium for ITX boards, and people who think they need 50 phase VRMs like world record OCers will buy $500+ ATX boards. The mATX board comes with an air of "doesn't try hard enough" so manufacturers probably think they can't sell mATX boards for those $500. While technically mATX would be sufficient for most users ever since multi-GPU setups died, there's a chicken/egg problem where at least in the past, mATX was for budget mainboards so enthusiasts didn't buy them so there was no incentive to make high-end mATX boards. And yeah if you can make a case slightly bigger and put a full ATX board in there, why bother. Just buy the $200 ITX board.
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Jan 8, 2022 11:10
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I don't think that's an issue, it's not trying to compete with size minimized boutique cases. And yeah the former Dan A4 H2O was still trying to be as small as possible, somewhere you have to decide whether you want to size up and allow the next bigger tier of coolers or radiators, or not.
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Feb 10, 2022 11:24
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The United States posted:So Lian Li is manufacturing DAN A4 cases now? IIRC the A4-H2O is similar to the original C4-SFX concept, before Dan redesigned that one to be slightly larger in order to be more generally useful. I guess there was enough demand for the old version for Lian Li to pick it up. It's also much cheaper than the C4 (mostly due to using lots of steel where Dan mostly uses aluminium). E: Added quote because new page. orcane fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Mar 5, 2022 |
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Mar 5, 2022 00:07
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This will be great for the upcoming 600W GPU setups 
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Mar 31, 2022 08:16
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Gigabyte has a DDR4 version of the Aorus Z690I Ultra, the ITX mainboard they recalled over PCIe 4.0 issues
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May 31, 2022 19:32
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I can never decide which part of that name is more ridiculous, Lian Li calling the brand "Sunny Side Up Design" or the case being the "Meshlicious".
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Jun 3, 2022 23:52
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Both of them are rumoured to push voltage beyond reason to have the longer dick in benchmarks. You should still be able to take one of these insane cards and undervolt/underclock them just fine, but you're going to be paying "SUPER GAMER OC+++" prices for it anyway. Or just buy the workstation cards because those actually aren't built for "+50% power draw, +5% performance" applications. Sucks their prices make scalpers look generous
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Jun 22, 2022 20:02
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That's pretty cool, the GPU shenanigans since 2020 made me get off the tiny SFF case train and I dislike AIOs anyway. Big fan of putting a baby head cooler and (mostly) any modern GPU into a smallish case though.
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Jul 1, 2022 10:28
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The Mushroom S already supports ATX boards.
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Aug 29, 2022 10:08
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It all depends on the "quality" requirement which is completely arbitrary, but just off the top of my head:
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Sep 9, 2022 14:55
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I just really want the C4-SFX to come out already because the A4 is neat but not big enough for today's GPUs and CPUs. I mean, it runs them and it's not losing much performance, but I know I DO lose performance by restricting PPT and I would like to be able to pick from more than three GPUs per type.
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Sep 13, 2022 23:38
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Just put a "RTX™ 6000 Ada Generation" in your SFF computer Which apparently inherited the insane naming scheme of the old Titan cards, makes sense as a workstation GPU I guess?
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Sep 23, 2022 00:01
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 Asus wants almost €400 for the Asus ROG Strix B650E-I Gaming WIFI, and MSI wants $240 for the MSI MPG B650I Edge WIFI so that's going to be close to €300. This is hilarious.
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Oct 4, 2022 23:51
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https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/dan-c4-sfx.12329/page-123#post-271666 The Dan C4-SFX will be 14.7 liters instead of the previously planned 13.37 ( ), looking at the compatibility list of currently announced RTX 4080/4090 and RX 7900 cards this makes sense and the larger dimensions probably aren't very noticeable unless you put the smaller version right next to the large one (which you can't). E: I think 2023 is realistic, but fair: It was already supposed to be out "soon" in 2020
orcane fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Dec 16, 2022 |
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Dec 15, 2022 13:30
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While the trend for GPU sizes has been going in the opposite direction for three refresh generations now, this case is even more aimed at putting the fastest hardware into an ITX box than eg. the A4 or A4-H2O. He already makes cases where you can only fit 2-slot FEs and approximately three basic AIB models per card. That's also not an exaggeration, the compatibility list for RX 7900 partner cards in the small version of the C4 lists exactly two models. For RTX 4090 partner cards it's zero. He probably wants to avoid the situation of the Dan A4 and RTX 3080 cards, where the compatibility list included FE cards and EVGA XC3 models (which they never really made/sold) and nothing else. It's not safe to bet on the slower cards ending up being significantly smaller, with the possible exception of reference models. And while FE cards might be almost sensible, their availability is limited (in quantity but especially location, they're not sold in every country) and the alternative partner cards all tend to be (way) larger. For AMD cards the problem is similar, the AMD RX 7900 cards are small (but also somewhat limited by that "tiny" cooler, and also not available everwhere and only in small numbers) while all the partner cards are gigantic. So the 4090 might be ridiculous but the case creator can't really aim for the "average" 4070 or RX 7800 cards which are not out yet, without losing yet another few months. And the lesson from the RTX 2000 and the RTX 3000/RX 6000 generations is that especially the third party vendors will often move their oversized coolers down the stack longer than they need to, in order to save on tooling cost and so they can pump another 20% power through the card for bars that are 5% longer.
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Dec 17, 2022 11:40
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IIRC (from reading people using the 3080 FE cards in the A4), they work fine after removing the plastic foil and using standoffs for the riser.
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Dec 17, 2022 16:12
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It depends a lot on what you're planning to do, and you have to keep the restrictions in mind. You can't run modern CPUs fully unlocked with these tiny coolers (and using a 92mm AIO won't really change that) but for eg. gaming where you might be GPU bound or have a 2-3 threads maxed out that's alright. If your use case is having the case sit next to you on the desk while you do rendering or other productivity, I would definitely get a bigger case with a proper tower cooler or big radiator. Even with limited TDP and undervolting, the fans will quickly have to spin up to their maximum RPM, which isn't remotely quiet with 92mm fans, and you probably don't want them to do this constantly. As one of the people who run this 5800X3D+NH-L9a combo, I have 90W PPT set for mine for a start. In the Dan A4 with TDP limits in the 80-90W range all CPUs I used will approach their respective throttling t_max in stress tests and stay there long term while sitting at base clocks, but without actual thermal throttling. That's obviously going to stay under the maximum performance you'd get out of the CPU with "real" coolers in a big case (one of the reasons I'm planning to move it to a bigger case is so I can use eg. a D12L). I have yet to mess with curve optimizer, that might help a bit more. My fan curve in UEFI is set to run at 30% RPM (nearly silent with that fan) up to reaching 45°C. It ramps up to 70% RPM (which is audible but not bad) until hitting 80°C, when it will max the RPM and become very noticeable, but I still wouldn't call it "loud". It's not an annoying volume level to me, but that's a living room PC sitting next to the TV. My conclusion would be different if I was doing productivity tasks all day with a 92mm fan doing 2500 RPM right next to me. Temps are "fine" but they could be better. In Windows the PC idles in the 40-50°C range, like all Ryzen it's very happy to rev up for even the tiniest background tasks like search indexer turning on, and then it can temporaily spike to the 50s or low 60s and slowly drop back down. Installs and updates can make it run up to the low 80s for the duration. Stress tests on all cores (like Prime or Cinebench) will eat up the entire PPT and run up to the max. temp as described above. For games it really depends: I usually run with a 60 fps limit at 1080p. Modern games utilizing many cores will reach higher temps (in the 80s), the somewhat older games I play, or 3DMark, will frequently hit the max. boost clock as needed and stay in the 70-80°C range. If the game is GPU bound or runs into the FPS limiter, the fan noise at 70% RPM is alright. E: My next modification was going to be that new be quiet! Pure Rock LP but with a Noctua fan, but I don't expect much and most of the PC will move into a bigger case at some point this year (Dan C4, if it really comes out ), so it's not a priority. I had a LP53 with a Noctua fan on the Core i7 and I wish there was a version of that heatsink for AM4.E2: Edits since I finally used the machine again and could check some numbers. orcane fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jan 7, 2023 |
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Jan 6, 2023 23:37
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Oh hey the Dan C4-SFX is finally launching next week.https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/dan-c4-sfx.12329/page-143#post-276198 posted:The case will be available through our partner stores. European customers are able to buy from Caseking. International customers can order from OverclockerUK or ComputerOrbit.
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May 12, 2023 10:54
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Oh phew CaseKing still has them in stock 
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May 16, 2023 21:12
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unimportantguy posted:I am weirdly enchanted by the Fractal Terra and am heavily considering building a new PC in it to replace my 8 year old gaming PC. I've also been assuming for a while that my next computer would have a 7800X3D and whatever 7700/7800/whatever midrange GPU AMD manages to put out eventually. Is this a sane idea, or am I inviting horrible temperatures and/or performance? Can the X3D work well with a low-profile cooler or is that too much of a compromise? The X3D CPUs don't use that much power but the cache stack (especially on the single chiplet 6 or 8 core CPUs) adds to heat density issues which will be worse with a low profile cooler. You will generally have to accept higher temps, and mess with curve optimizer and power limits if the heat or noise gets too high. If you absolutely need the last % of performance you definitely want a bigger case. In games it's no big deal, you sacrifice like 5% performance with sensible power limits. But if you're rendering or doing anything else asking for full performance for as long as possible, the hit will be significant. I run a 5800X3D in a Dan A4, with my settings it can boost up to max clocks for a few seconds and that's usually all games are asking for. Stuff like Cinebench will quickly make all cores/threads fall back to the base clocks instead, and stay there for the duration (this also runs the 92 mm CPU fan at 100%, which is pretty bad). The Terra allows you to use up to 77 mm height for a CPU cooler which will fit the better top-down air coolers (Black Ridge with 120 x 25 mm fan on top, Noctua NH-L12S, Big Shuriken 3 etc.), but for their maximum performance you're still limited to 2 or 2.2 slot GPUs. This is still the better compromise than scaling down the CPU side to even lower profile coolers, but in my experience (with the Dan A4 and cards in the RDNA 2/RTX 2000/RTX 3000 generations) it opts you out of some desirable medium tier "OC" models. Overall, people have been building flagship CPUs + RTX 3000/4000 FEs in the Dan A4 just fine(TM) so I'm going to assume doing a bit less in a slightly bigger/more flexible Fractal Terra will work okay, but consider your use case and your tolerance for fan noise. orcane fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Jun 3, 2023 |
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Jun 3, 2023 22:17
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ughhhh posted:What's your gpu tho? Since the terra seems to dictate the size of CPU cooler by the size of your GPU. I don't think there are any 2 slot GPUs this generation (except for those 4060s )
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Jun 4, 2023 11:20
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Yeah if your plan is using modern CPUs unlimited or even overclocked, abandon the idea of getting a sandwich case. Coolers in the range of a Noctua L12S are decent but still not amazing at cooling those CPUs (definitely weaker than the D12L) and it will limit you to 2-slot cards again. Using it as a "Dan A4 with better CPU cooling" is a viable option but that doesn't help if you already have a 2.5+ slot GPU you want to stick in there.
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Jun 12, 2023 12:52
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IMO all the (originally announced) AM5 ITX boards suck, and the prices are absurd. But yeah that's the exact same selection we have in Switzerland 
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Jun 12, 2023 13:49
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At least AM4 boards still exist here in case mine breaks before the next generation AM5 chipsets/CPUs launch Really curious what Gigabyte is doing, not selling their B650 board here.
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Jun 12, 2023 14:22
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The collaboration project sold as the Lian-Li A4 H2O, which fits a 240mm radiator on top: https://lian-li.com/product/a4h2o/ E: That case is basically the production version of the original C4-SFX idea: 
orcane fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Jun 13, 2023 |
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Jun 13, 2023 12:23
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quote:Update: He obviously underestimated the demand and the first production run is basically sold out now (I think CaseKing still has some in black) so that sucks if you didn't buy one since orders opened a month ago. On the other hand they're still boutique cases in fairly limited numbers and gaps in availability should have been expected. Regarding the new version, he says he doesn't want to risk suppliers sitting on unsold V1 cases while the V2 is teased/sold, which happened with the earlier versions of the A4. The V2 will use the same layout and is roughly the same size so I don't really agree with "effectively a different case": quote:- same layout as the v1 
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Jun 15, 2023 16:15
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As a user of a Dan A4 for TV gaming,  Fractal Terra will be fine. A modern Ryzen with 65W eco mode or manual TDP limits, so even a tiny CPU cooler with a 3-slot card is fine (but personally I'd recommend using a not-much-more-than-2-slot GPU and a higher CPU cooler but YMMV).
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Jun 15, 2023 18:59
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Sadly there's no B550 ITX board that does all the things at once, some have dumb fans, some have barely accessible CMOS headers, some have USB-C headers and others don't etc. The Gigabyte had the things I wanted and I never had issues with my B450 and B550 Gigabyte ITX boards, but I heard horror stories about their support too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5xcVF04B_M I'd probably get the Asrock phantom gaming nowadays. Or the basic B550m if you don't need fancy features, and you shouldn't be overclocking Ryzens anyway.
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Nov 26, 2023 02:19
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so I guess the flat packing and new design for the C4 are pushed back to a later revision, and the V2 will mostly be an optimized, slightly larger V1 so it can have mATX support also the I/O panel moves to where it should have been in the first place IMO (front/bottom) and gains USB-A and 3.5 mm jacks (good for my Gigabyte B550 I which lacks an internal USB-C header) https://old.reddit.com/r/sffpc/comments/1accu6e/dan_c4sfx_v2_update/
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Jan 29, 2024 11:14
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Why is that unsurprising? After watching that yesterday I'm glad the next C4-SFX version is not flatpacked yet, I absolutely do not want to deal with IKEA style PC cases.
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Feb 13, 2024 17:16
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I mean in some way it's not that different than the endless M1 revisions? Apparently the one Steve tested already doesn't exist anymore as a thing you can buy. There will be more runs of the C4 and you can get them used  And yeah almost all the criticism in that video is about the infinite screws you have to handle, how terrible the manual was, how the flexibility is nice but mechanically it's a pain to do etc. Also the case is very expensive.
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Feb 13, 2024 18:19
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The Dan Cases collaboration (atm) is the A4-H2O (should be available?), with a larger mATX "A3" rumoured to be announced at their event tomorrow. Like that's the entire point, having a manufacturer mass-produce certain cases so they're not $250 bucks and constantly sold out (for the A4 and C4, Dan designed them and ordered runs of x units from Lian Li and as far as I can tell he will do this again for the C4-SFX V2). I don't know. I was frequently checking Lian Li cases for builds in the early 2000s and never bought one because they weren't particularly better than the cheaper "mass-market stamped sheet metal" cases with better availability. Outside the Ssupd cases they have several cases now that don't seem bad at all, unless they're bad because mass market E: Oh I see. Pointless elitism, yay.
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Feb 15, 2024 00:43
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You probably get more out of spending the CAD 160 (or less?) on a good USB DAC but someone else or audio threads here will have more specific advice.
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Mar 26, 2024 22:19
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Arzachel posted:That's pretty niche, isn't it? I'm sure we'll get cases that make use of it after a while but right now I can't think of any off-hand. Max CPU cooler height Terra? 
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Apr 23, 2024 21:03
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