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The concept of "gamer" doesn't even exist in my language or culture and is really loving moronic If you play a lot of games congratulations you have a hobby
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May 23, 2016 17:35
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Pound_Coin posted:I wouldn't. I prefer the term book enthusiast
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May 23, 2016 17:52
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I thought 'gamer' was just shorthand for gaming enthusiast or someone who likes playing games. Is there a whole world out there I'm missing?
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May 23, 2016 20:35
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Pound_Coin posted:I wouldn't. There have been times and places where "book readers" were shunned or much worse. I think a lot of the argument about who is a gamer stems from the fact that "gamers" used to be shunned to a certain extent, and many embraced this ostracism. But now that gaming is as mainstream as books or movies, that identity is gone. Imagine if for some reason a huge number of cycling enthusiasts moved to the Netherlands and were dismayed that their identity wasn't a thing any more, and started a movement about how they're the real cyclists.
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May 23, 2016 21:12
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eSports Chaebol posted:There have been times and places where "book readers" were shunned or much worse. I think a lot of the argument about who is a gamer stems from the fact that "gamers" used to be shunned to a certain extent, and many embraced this ostracism. But now that gaming is as mainstream as books or movies, that identity is gone. I think thats pretty much it.
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May 23, 2016 21:55
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Nevermind.
Focacciasaurus_Rex fucked around with this message at 11:34 on May 29, 2016 |
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May 24, 2016 19:57
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Starshark posted:I thought 'gamer' was just shorthand for gaming enthusiast or someone who likes playing games. Is there a whole world out there I'm missing? There's a whole kind of weird and lame "gamer culture" thing which is hilariously and transparently commercial, and also full of amazingly toxic chauvinism. Basically you don't want to call yourself a gamer because people might think you spend your time buying anime bodypillows and writing 20k words about how feminists are worse than hitler.
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May 24, 2016 21:04
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OwlFancier posted:There's a whole kind of weird and lame "gamer culture" thing which is hilariously and transparently commercial, and also full of amazingly toxic chauvinism. pretty much. I guess i would be a "gamer" since its a major hobby of mine and i care about parts of it. but its not my sole "identity" or whatever. and your and idiot if you do make it your sole focus. I do think their is line between "casual" and "hardcore" but it doesnt matter or mean anything, and i dont get why people care. I also think people trying to push gaming as some magical pretentious art form and get mad when all games arnt puzzle games or psudo intellectual crap like sunset. and that violent games like doom shouldn't exist because "the violence is troubling and problematic" or that a game doesn't 100% agree with their politics is "pernicious and right wing" are loving pretentious clowns . But at the same time sending death threats to someone over calmly pointing out issues with some games that super dumb and creepy toward women is also stupid and lovely. As i said in other threads. My GF's ex was one of these people. a living internet nerd stereotype. apparently he spent all day ranting about sarkiasiaan and how women were all evil whores. he was also brony and abusive and almost 40. so yeah, your statement isnt wrong in some cases.
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May 24, 2016 21:31
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eSports Chaebol posted:There have been times and places where "book readers" were shunned or much worse. I think a lot of the argument about who is a gamer stems from the fact that "gamers" used to be shunned to a certain extent, and many embraced this ostracism. But now that gaming is as mainstream as books or movies, that identity is gone. So what happened to all those shunned book readers? Did they just go quietly into the night?
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May 24, 2016 21:52
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Dapper_Swindler posted:pretty much. I guess i would be a "gamer" since its a major hobby of mine and i care about parts of it. but its not my sole "identity" or whatever. and your and idiot if you do make it your sole focus. I do think their is line between "casual" and "hardcore" but it doesnt matter or mean anything, and i dont get why people care. I feel similarly. I play a lot of games but, I don't build my identity around it because that seems weird. I just like them and think they're fun. Also even if I did want to define my identity through it I really wouldn't want to be lumped in with a lot of the other people who do.
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May 24, 2016 22:29
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sex idiot posted:What does "gamer" mean to you, is it just someone who plays video games? or is there more to it than that? Within the context of "people who play games", a "gamer" is a "person who regularly plays games that are not sport recreationally". There is no meaningful distinctuon between a "gamer" and a "casual gamer", but there is a difference between a "gamer" and a "hardcore gamer". A "hardcore gamer" is someone who has made playing games that are not sport a significant part of their personal identity, as opposed to a recreational activity. There isn't really any difference between hardcore and regular gamers in terms of skill or game preference, but hardcore gamers are more willing to play and accept games that are more hostile to the player. I've differentiated between games and sport because there is a meaningful distinction between the two: sport is games played in an organized, official, and officiated manner. To illustrate: playing chess is a game; participating in a FIDE sponsored/officiated tournament is sport.
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May 24, 2016 23:15
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I also think people trying to push gaming as some magical pretentious art form and get mad when all games arnt puzzle games or psudo intellectual crap like sunset. and that violent games like doom shouldn't exist because "the violence is troubling and problematic" or that a game doesn't 100% agree with their politics is "pernicious and right wing" are loving pretentious clowns . Anyone who thinks Doom can't be art is a mental midget and a philistine with no appreciation for aesthetics, design esoterie, performance, or sport. Wales Grey fucked around with this message at 23:23 on May 24, 2016 |
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May 24, 2016 23:21
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Wales Grey posted:Anyone who thinks Doom can't be art is a mental midget and a philistine with no appreciation for aesthetics, design esoterie, performance, or sport. I think it can be art. just because something has spectacle or is all spectacle doesnt mean it cant be art. DOOM can be art, wolfenstien can be art, bioshock can be art. it's what the john machintosh of the world should learn before they bitch about it watching e3 http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/06/15/doom-gameplay-trailer-violence_n_7585538.html talking about lovely treatment/image/representation of woman/minorities is one thing and for the most part admirable , but if you start whining and "critiquing" about violence and gore and conflict in video games, get hosed. OwlFancier posted:I feel similarly. I play a lot of games but, I don't build my identity around it because that seems weird. I just like them and think they're fun. Also even if I did want to define my identity through it I really wouldn't want to be lumped in with a lot of the other people who do. yeah. I would identify myself as me. an individual. I am more a politics/history person then "gamer".
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May 25, 2016 00:29
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Freakazoid_ posted:So what happened to all those shunned book readers? Did they just go quietly into the night? I was thinking of Martha Corey of Salem, who while real and really killed for being a witch wasn't actually accused of reading non-Bible books as in The Crucible. Maybe I was wrong and there never was a period of general criticism of reading, as opposed to criticism of particular things such as Newgate novels.
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May 25, 2016 01:35
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I think it can be art. just because something has spectacle or is all spectacle doesnt mean it cant be art. DOOM can be art, wolfenstien can be art, bioshock can be art. it's what the john machintosh of the world should learn before they bitch about it watching e3 http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/06/15/doom-gameplay-trailer-violence_n_7585538.html talking about lovely treatment/image/representation of woman/minorities is one thing and for the most part admirable , but if you start whining and "critiquing" about violence and gore and conflict in video games, get hosed. Exactly! But I'm not sure if there's ever been a critique of "explicit violence and gore in video games" that's been done for its own sake. "Does pretend violence in And that question is less interesting to me than its cousin, "What role does the violence of Doom 4 serve in establishing the narrative, atmosphere, design, gameplay, and spectacle of that game?". E: I'd also like to say that as far as I know, games explicitly about and dedicated to explicit, bloody violence and gore tend to be either tongue-in-cheek (Carmageddon), horror stories (Manhunt), or critcal failures by all measures (Hatred). There's a fine line between satirical entertainment, and edgelordey trash in every medium. Video games are no different. Wales Grey fucked around with this message at 01:57 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 01:49
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Wales Grey posted:Exactly! But I'm not sure if there's ever been a critique of "explicit violence and gore in video games" that's been done for its own sake. "Does pretend violence in I think a few try, but it always comes off as weird moralizing, honestly the whole DOOM "scandal" kinda turned me off of femfreq in general. I like the general goal they have, but they come off as too sex negative and they tend to cheery pick sometimes, and i think their reviews are kinda lovely. but i dont think they are some great evil or some dumb poo poo. i am just glad they tossed out john macintosh, that guy is a whiny prick and represents everything i hate on the left. https://twitter.com/radicalbytes/status/329432068780081153 https://twitter.com/radicalbytes/status/540596478717095937 https://twitter.com/radicalbytes/status/610298878089244672 
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May 25, 2016 02:20
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I haven't played the new doom but from what I've seen it's... pretty heavily satire. Like, it looks like satire of classic videogames almost while at the same time sort of being one. You're a nameless dude who appears and murders demons in hilariously ridiculous ways and the game actually has some kind of backstory to justify that, but it's so patently after-the-fact that I don't see how else to take it.
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May 25, 2016 03:19
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OwlFancier posted:I haven't played the new doom but from what I've seen it's... pretty heavily satire. Like, it looks like satire of classic videogames almost while at the same time sort of being one. You're a nameless dude who appears and murders demons in hilariously ridiculous ways and the game actually has some kind of backstory to justify that, but it's so patently after-the-fact that I don't see how else to take it. its basicaly old doom remade in 2016 with the graphics and tigntness of today. it has a story thats actualy sorta interesting but its in the backround and isnt consequential, its the best single player shooter i have played in years. honestly. get it.
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May 25, 2016 03:24
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I'm probably going to as it does look super good but, like, I don't get how someone can presumably be familiar with classic doom and games in general (as a person reviewing videogames) and not understand the joke.
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May 25, 2016 03:30
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I'd say that the whole "too much violence in the media argument probably relates to a general feeling that stigmatizing sex while celebrating killing people and fetishizing revenge might not be healthy, and is more of a critique of puritanical cultures than anything. It's a discussion worth having, but it's very difficult to in this world of one liners and memes. Twitter and similar social communication platforms kind of puts any arguments not condensed to pithy one liners or image macros at a disadvantage, so that's a problem. That said, given the most 'mature' discussion about sexuality nerds seem to be able to handle is loud arguments about which waifu is best to have on your custom printed body pillow, I think we can safely assume these people desperately need to go out and get laid. Or to be pandered to less. Either way, the current sex level is clearly not working. (Did I really just type that last sentence?  )OwlFancier posted:I'm probably going to as it does look super good but, like, I don't get how someone can presumably be familiar with classic doom and games in general (as a person reviewing videogames) and not understand the joke. At the very least, it can be assumed the people at the office are well aware of the doom comic.  There are worse entertainment benchmarks than 'so stupid it's kind of funny'. If you fail, at least you get the violent spectacle and game play value. ... I just realized that a lot of video games are at the same level as exploitation B-movies. 
Focacciasaurus_Rex fucked around with this message at 03:57 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 03:55
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That's why it's great, I feel like I'm watching a wonderful B movie while I'm playing it. It's great in the sense that Army of Darkness is great. Also yes, like the third line quotes the doom comic. I definitely need to get the game at some point.
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May 25, 2016 03:58
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OwlFancier posted:I haven't played the new doom but from what I've seen it's... pretty heavily satire. Like, it looks like satire of classic videogames almost while at the same time sort of being one. You're a nameless dude who appears and murders demons in hilariously ridiculous ways and the game actually has some kind of backstory to justify that, but it's so patently after-the-fact that I don't see how else to take it. The developers correctly realized that the players really don't care about the story and made the character people are playing (Doomguy) just not give a gently caress as well. Its actually pretty clever with some of the small touch they add in the intro level about this whole background story going on and nope, the playercharacter is just here to kill demons. OwlFancier posted:I'm probably going to as it does look super good but, like, I don't get how someone can presumably be familiar with classic doom and games in general (as a person reviewing videogames) and not understand the joke. Have you SEEN how bad professional video games reviews are at games?
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May 25, 2016 03:59
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BexGu posted:Have you SEEN how bad professional video games reviews are at games? How many xbox achievement points does a video game reviewer need to be ethical? Edit: Being knowledgeable about games is all well and good in a reviewer, but it's also important to get the viewpoint of someone who is new to games or the genre too. Elitism is kind of an issue in the gamer community. You get snobs in any community, but video games have it magnified because skill is a much bigger factor than books or films. That, or the reviewer might have just been struggling with the controls for other reasons. Reviewers sometimes just get inadequate playtime before the review is rushed out the door. 
Focacciasaurus_Rex fucked around with this message at 04:21 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 04:01
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BexGu posted:Have you SEEN how bad professional video games reviews are at games? My literal grandmother could play games better than that 
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May 25, 2016 04:02
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Focacciasaurus_Rex posted:
nah that part isn't a mystery, it was the same controls as every other fps game ever released on consoles
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May 25, 2016 04:34
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BexGu posted:Have you SEEN how bad professional video games reviews are at games? Focacciasaurus_Rex posted:Being knowledgeable about games is all well and good in a reviewer, but it's also important to get the viewpoint of someone who is new to games or the genre too. Elitism is kind of an issue in the gamer community. You get snobs in any community, but video games have it magnified because skill is a much bigger factor than books or films.
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May 25, 2016 05:39
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Buca di Bepis posted:nah that part isn't a mystery, it was the same controls as every other fps game ever released on consoles  I still maintain that it's okay for some people to be bad or new at video games, including some reviewers.  Wales Grey posted:To be fair, this basically what it looks like when I play any FPS with a controller. I don't think it can, nor should it necessarily be the case. I agree that part of that process is involved with learning to like video games, and that is why "new" or "bad" players shouldn't be judged. Because to do so is to forget that every player started off bad. Difficulty settings are great for this, if you just want people to be able to beat your game even if they're not the greatest, but that bumps up into the elitism again. Focacciasaurus_Rex fucked around with this message at 05:58 on May 25, 2016 |
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May 25, 2016 05:45
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Let's ask GOP strategist Rick Wilson how he defines "gamer"
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May 25, 2016 07:07
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To actually add something, the reaction against the new DOOM specifically stems from missing the wider context of that particular franchise. As people have said, id themselves released that absurd Doom Comic 20 years ago, which makes fun of the inherent stupidity of their games. In a way, ridiculously enough, I guess DOOM is closer to what I would define as art precisely because it successfully makes a statement about its own empty ultra violence while still remaining a very competent title within the genre. It's also why Doom 3, or that godawful Doom movie, was forgettable.
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May 25, 2016 15:04
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Nosfereefer posted:To actually add something, the reaction against the new DOOM specifically stems from missing the wider context of that particular franchise. As people have said, id themselves released that absurd Doom Comic 20 years ago, which makes fun of the inherent stupidity of their games. In a way, ridiculously enough, I guess DOOM is closer to what I would define as art precisely because it successfully makes a statement about its own empty ultra violence while still remaining a very competent title within the genre. It's also why Doom 3, or that godawful Doom movie, was forgettable. I think its more, most of the critics have never ever played that stuff. most of them went back to gaming to preach various causes and make it "grow up and become repectible art" not because they love the hobby. most of them hadnt played it since they were kids, then games like gone home and other indie games brought them back. now they are annoyed that most games arnt like gone home or its lovely clones, everyones gone to rapture and sunset . when they saw a bunch of fanboys cheering the return of the doom slayer. they showed the contempt they always held. they mostly play puzzle stuff or walking sims because they view that as art.
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May 25, 2016 16:16
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Freakazoid_ posted:So what happened to all those shunned book readers? Did they just go quietly into the night? We all hang out in Book Barn Please come visit
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May 25, 2016 16:33
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:We all hang out in Book Barn i second this. its great place, please visit.
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May 25, 2016 17:55
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A person who considers their video game habit a hobby.
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May 25, 2016 18:00
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CasualTR posted:A person who considers their video game habit a hobby. pretty much.
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May 25, 2016 20:13
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I enjoy playing games and do so often, but the term "gamer" is completely lost on me. If you're so immersed in a single hobby that you define yourself by it, you should probably take a step back and give yourself a break from said hobby.
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May 25, 2016 20:20
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What I gather from this thread and other similar discussions is that a gamer is someone who spends thousands of hours playing video games and then posts on SA to proclaim that they're not a gamer.
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May 25, 2016 21:39
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eSports Chaebol posted:I was thinking of Martha Corey of Salem, who while real and really killed for being a witch wasn't actually accused of reading non-Bible books as in The Crucible. Maybe I was wrong and there never was a period of general criticism of reading, as opposed to criticism of particular things such as Newgate novels. Do you know of any other consumer cultures that underwent drastic change? I'm fishing for comparisons. Although I don't really think of gaming as a whole being one culture. Hieronymous Alloy posted:We all hang out in Book Barn You say that, but I don't want to disturb the locals with my choices in normie literature.
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May 25, 2016 22:40
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computer parts posted:Gamers are people who self-identify as gamers. Those who self identify typically have characteristics X, Y, and Z. Some of those are not positive characteristics.
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May 26, 2016 05:50
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Freakazoid_ posted:Do you know of any other consumer cultures that underwent drastic change? I'm fishing for comparisons. Although I don't really think of gaming as a whole being one culture. I think I've been conflating moral panic with cultural acceptance. Theater is probably the best example of the latter overcoming the former, but obviously that far predates consumer culture. I suppose comic books are the easiest comparison: they're still generally panned as not real literature, but there is much more acceptance that they can be meaningful, and obviously are no longer associated with the notion of some sinister homosexual and/or Communist agenda. Perhaps anime is a better example because it highlights the dichotomy between consuming a particular form of media being a label and not. In Japan, "anime" simply refers to animation, e.g. Tom and Jerry is an American anime, and the perceived distinction in seriousness between anime and live action per se is not as great as in America. Yet in America, there are plenty of fans of Japanese anime who watch all sorts of it without any real interest in live action Japanese film and television. There is a whole otaku (another loanword with a different meaning in English than in Japanese!) subculture that is more substantial than the simple fact that people consume a particular kind of media. This is I think the same thing as people who self-identity as "gamers"--that everyone is gaming now makes it a precarious label. How wonderful now that gaming is mainstream, that gamers are no longer all depicted as basement-dwelling nerds! But wait--if it is mainstream now, and it means that popular, attractive people bear the title of gamer, then we the actual basement-dwelling nerds are excluded now not only from the mainstream, but from our own subculture! In a sense, erasure of a label can be worse than ostracism of the labelled.
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May 27, 2016 00:03
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I prefer the term book enthusiast Bibliophile.
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