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bman in 2288
Apr 21, 2010

George posted:

I just don't think it was funny.

No sweat, he said he's gonna tone it down, anyway.

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Wayne
Oct 18, 2014

He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself
Hey guys, glad to finally get in on one of your LPs near the start. Can't pass up a Souls game. :D

I'd be down for the occasional "nice" invasion, you know, dropping a Stone of Ephemeral Eyes first and not spamming grass and everything. Might even do something Sleeping Dogs-themed, too.

As far as advice goes, I'd let Travis know that Faith is pretty bad in Demon's Souls; there aren't a whole lot of miracles and while they do tend to be useful, they cost a lot of MP and you also need Int for that. So much like being a paladin in D&D, going Str + Fth in this game sets your "needed stats" to "most of them." :sweatdrop: So I wouldn't feel bad about grinding a bit for a few extra levels and/or buying lots of spices to make up for that if you feel the need.

BigTUnit1
Jul 10, 2012

George posted:

I just don't think it was funny.

And you are absolutely justified in that opinion!
I am the first to admit I am not always funny

If this is anything like my other attempts at live commentary at Souls/Borne games, I think I'll probably be too focused on not dying to yuck

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

RareAcumen posted:

Ha! Good question!

...

Moonlight Cannon.

Ahem

ThornBrain
Jan 25, 2011

Hi. I forgot your name. Whatever.
My... point is...
Hi. Your head's on fire.


Or a drake, we don't really care what it's called. Also pokey slime boss, then we finally level up and upgrade some of our weapons.

KeiraWalker
Sep 5, 2011

Me? Don't worry about me...
Grimey Drawer
Heh. I remember later in Boletarian Palace, a lot of the enemies drop high level healing grass. I wound up carrying so many of them that grass alone was comprising a goodly chunk of my inventory weight limit.

frozentreasure
Nov 13, 2012

~
I hope you're going to explain to Travis the difference between equip burden and item burden before too much longer. That's an important one.

And yes, when the Phalanx is without any Hoplites to hide behind, she just backs away into the corner. It's quite sad.

IronSaber
Feb 24, 2009

:roboluv: oh yes oh god yes form the head FORM THE HEAD unghhhh...:fap:
So next time, are we gonna see some Jolly Cooperation? :dance:

Highwang
Nov 7, 2013

No Pineapple?
No Thank You!

IronSaber posted:

So next time, are we gonna see some Jolly Cooperation? :dance:

Yep. Once you get those stones, online is active. Which means co-op and dicklord-ery can happen.

ThornBrain
Jan 25, 2011

Hi. I forgot your name. Whatever.
My... point is...
Hi. Your head's on fire.

frozentreasure posted:

I hope you're going to explain to Travis the difference between equip burden and item burden before too much longer. That's an important one.

I did either between recordings or in an earlier part.

ThornBrain
Jan 25, 2011

Hi. I forgot your name. Whatever.
My... point is...
Hi. Your head's on fire.
Travis and I recorded some more the other day, so while we wait for his footage to make its way through his slow internet to MediaFire, y'all should check out the new Demon's Souls run from SDGQ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlyhZdqrUIA

ThornBrain
Jan 25, 2011

Hi. I forgot your name. Whatever.
My... point is...
Hi. Your head's on fire.


We jump ahead to 4-1 so we can go Fight Club on some skeletons. They used to be intimidating.

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011

:frogsiren:
I still say out of the entire Souls series that Demon's Souls has the best Skeletons.

bman in 2288
Apr 21, 2010
That coop looks incredibly fun. I'm jealous.

ThornBrain
Jan 25, 2011

Hi. I forgot your name. Whatever.
My... point is...
Hi. Your head's on fire.


Travis and I take on our respective Adjudicators, while in the middle Travis gets invaded by a surprisingly helpful stranger.

Highwang
Nov 7, 2013

No Pineapple?
No Thank You!
Yeah I'm not sure if DaS phantoms can do so, but in DeS it wasn't uncommon to have a friendly BP. The community was hilariously helpful for this game.

Appreciate Patches(!?) helping you out.

IronSaber
Feb 24, 2009

:roboluv: oh yes oh god yes form the head FORM THE HEAD unghhhh...:fap:
I wonder if this particular BP was someone who has been monitoring this LP.

bman in 2288
Apr 21, 2010
Unlikely, considering that I'm sure they record well before putting the videos up. But on the other hand, maybe he recognized the name.

frozentreasure
Nov 13, 2012

~
Okay, here's the deal with crystal lizards. Unless Dark Souls 3 does something similar, it's the worst form of them across the Souls games. Each crystal lizard will spawn a limited number of times. Initially, that number is one for every lizard. For each boss in that world that you kill, that number increases by one. For each lizard that either dies or escapes, the number decreases by one. So since you had already killed the Adjudicator, you got another shot at the one near Sparkly. The real issue is that there are some materials that only drop from lizards, and are necessary for high-level upgrades (and killing them isn't even a guarantee to get the materials, since it's still a drop table), but lizards have a tendency to spawn near cliffs, and run in that exact direction (really, they see you, turn around and then run; if you shoot them with an arrow before they notice you, you can make them run straight towards you). Even worse, if you kill them, you still need to collect the loot, unlike in Dark Souls 1, so if they fall off the cliff in death, that's still the items gone.

It's a really frustrating system and I wish they hadn't partially reverted to it in Dark Souls 2.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






Dark Souls 3's crystal lizards are pretty forgiving. They have a short vision radius, can be stunlocked if you start hitting them, instantly give you their loot upon death (such that you don't even need to pick it off their corpses), respawn upon quitting/reloading, and will even give you their stuff if they die by falling off a cliff.

It almost makes up for the game's horrendous combination of upgrade gating and increased upgrade costs that effectively require you to grab all the materials you can get.

Highwang
Nov 7, 2013

No Pineapple?
No Thank You!

NGDBSS posted:

Dark Souls 3's crystal lizards are pretty forgiving. They have a short vision radius, can be stunlocked if you start hitting them, instantly give you their loot upon death (such that you don't even need to pick it off their corpses), respawn upon quitting/reloading, and will even give you their stuff if they die by falling off a cliff.

It almost makes up for the game's horrendous combination of upgrade gating and increased upgrade costs that effectively require you to grab all the materials you can get.

Christ, the progress restriction on weapons is so awful in 3. I miss being able to scam myself into a +7-10 weapon early on.

Didn't DaS2 do that as well?

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






Highwang posted:

Christ, the progress restriction on weapons is so awful in 3. I miss being able to scam myself into a +7-10 weapon early on.

Didn't DaS2 do that as well?
Nah, DS2 gave you upgrade materials at a quick pace. You could buy your way up to +6 for a golf bag of weapons after a third of the way through the base game, or push at least one weapon to +10 with about the same level of progress. Dark Souls 1 and 2 were content to give you a bunch of cool toys to play with in the beginning phase of the game, and then would tell you to go nuts. And they were, for the most part, still balanced if you did so. (Sorcery in Dark Souls 1 was an overpowered exception to this, of course.)

Or you could even seek out and beeline for the option in DS2 for not using a weapon at all, but what kind of crazy person would do that? (Spoilers are behind the link.)

My best guess is that DS3's weapon gating is designed to fit into the multiplayer matchmaking system, but even then there were better ways to do the latter that don't involve screwing around massively with the former. Despite its use of Soul Memory*, I otherwise like what DS2 did in this respect - scaling-independent gear was heavily limited compared to 1 and 3, and scaling was also (mostly) independent of gear level. The effect was that it was very difficult to "cheat the system" by employing gear way above your weight class, so if someone was doing some level of damage then they'd actually spent the time investing in appropriate levels.

*Nobody likes Soul Memory, and ironically DS2 could have gotten away with doing matchmaking based on level with less issue than other games in the series.

KeiraWalker
Sep 5, 2011

Me? Don't worry about me...
Grimey Drawer
The thing about DS3's weapon upgrade situation is that it is really, really goddamn close to Bloodborne in terms of progress restriction. So unfortunately, Bloodborne's visual aesthetics aren't the only thing DS3 borrowed from it.

frozentreasure
Nov 13, 2012

~

NGDBSS posted:

Nah, DS2 gave you upgrade materials at a quick pace.

I must have played a different Dark Souls 2, then. As I remember, if you don't know where you're going and what you're doing, especially in the base game, getting the materials to upgrade beyond +3 takes a significant amount of time, there are no limitless sources of titanite until you pass certain checkpoints, and you also don't get any non-standard weapons worth upgrading for awhile anyway, so the materials you do have get wasted on basic weapons. And then the game threw titanite slabs at you with wild abandon.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






frozentreasure posted:

I must have played a different Dark Souls 2, then. As I remember, if you don't know where you're going and what you're doing, especially in the base game, getting the materials to upgrade beyond +3 takes a significant amount of time, there are no limitless sources of titanite until you pass certain checkpoints, and you also don't get any non-standard weapons worth upgrading for awhile anyway, so the materials you do have get wasted on basic weapons. And then the game threw titanite slabs at you with wild abandon.
One thing was changed to make it easier to upgrade freely to +6, but even on the original game you could still do that thing after about a third of the game's content was through. Similarly, there are a number of non-standard weapons available very early in some not-so-hidden places, and in fact on my first playthrough I recall using one of them for much of the game.

Of course, if you do know what you're doing, you can get a +10 weapon about a sixth of the way through the game.

ThornBrain
Jan 25, 2011

Hi. I forgot your name. Whatever.
My... point is...
Hi. Your head's on fire.


People in Stonefang really want my ghosty coins.

KeiraWalker
Sep 5, 2011

Me? Don't worry about me...
Grimey Drawer
Stonefang is a real bastard if you haven't got that falchion from Shrine of Storms. It is pretty rich with upgrade materials though, so definitely recommended to visit it sooner rather than later. I forget though if you need to be carrying your materials with you in order for Ed to upgrade stuff, or if he'll just pull out of Thomas's storage box like Boldwin does.

Also for some reason I always thought the fat dudes were called Fat Ministers.

Dooky Dingo
Feb 17, 2011

Gym badge day is a VERY dangerous day!

KieranWalker posted:

Also for some reason I always thought the fat dudes were called Fat Ministers.

No, but now I really wish my forums name was "Chubby Vicar" :allears:

Nidoking
Jan 27, 2009

I fought the lava, and the lava won.
You can upgrade at either blacksmith with materials that Thomas is holding, so I recommend leaving the level every time you open a shortcut and depositing your upgrade materials - they're heavy and there's absolutely no reason to carry them anywhere.

The Sticky bow has higher range than the normal ones, which compensates for the decreased damage - more range means less drop-off in damage over distance.

Wayne
Oct 18, 2014

He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself
It also improves their Dex scaling, which is probably the bigger benefit in Demon's Souls (since it has both proportionate scaling and non-augmented scaling being really low). I just always used either the unique bow or a certain boss soul bow, though. :v:

KieranWalker posted:

Stonefang is a real bastard if you haven't got that falchion from Shrine of Storms.

The lizardmen are weak to thrust and magic, so it's pretty trivial to run through it as a Royal (since they start with a rapier) with Enchant Weapon from Grumpy Mage. It's usually my first stop, since I'm not manly enough to punch the skeletons to death in 4-1, heh.

So Thorn, if you mentioned it already I must've missed it; but now that I've got a working PS3 again I'd be up for funvading you guys. I take it you're going to wait until you get a black orb on-camera, though?

ThornBrain
Jan 25, 2011

Hi. I forgot your name. Whatever.
My... point is...
Hi. Your head's on fire.

Wayne posted:

So Thorn, if you mentioned it already I must've missed it; but now that I've got a working PS3 again I'd be up for funvading you guys. I take it you're going to wait until you get a black orb on-camera, though?

Nah I just need to actually remember to let people know when we're recording, since us getting together is so sporadic.

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011

:frogsiren:

NGDBSS posted:

Dark Souls 3's crystal lizards are pretty forgiving. They have a short vision radius, can be stunlocked if you start hitting them, instantly give you their loot upon death (such that you don't even need to pick it off their corpses), respawn upon quitting/reloading, and will even give you their stuff if they die by falling off a cliff.

It almost makes up for the game's horrendous combination of upgrade gating and increased upgrade costs that effectively require you to grab all the materials you can get.

The Walking Heads in Bloodborne are the same as well, those little dudes were very easy to kill for their supplies.

ditty bout my clitty
May 28, 2011

by FactsAreUseless
Fun Shoe

Dooky Dingo posted:

No, but now I really wish my forums name was "Chubby Vicar" :allears:

I wish mine was "champion grundy"

ThornBrain
Jan 25, 2011

Hi. I forgot your name. Whatever.
My... point is...
Hi. Your head's on fire.


We fight a giant spider. Because you should always expect the worst when you go mining.

Last of our backlog again, so heads up if we miss another week or two.

Nidoking
Jan 27, 2009

I fought the lava, and the lava won.
I don't think you're really meant to use the Kris Blade as a weapon - it's more for holding in one hand while firing spells from the other. The fact that you can also attack with it means about as much as the ability to hit enemies with the catalyst itself.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






Nidoking posted:

I don't think you're really meant to use the Kris Blade as a weapon - it's more for holding in one hand while firing spells from the other. The fact that you can also attack with it means about as much as the ability to hit enemies with the catalyst itself.
That likely has to do with the weapon's real-life reputation. Generally, "kris" or "keris" refers to a class of asymmetrical and often wave-bladed daggers from some of the islands of Southeast Asia, and from Java and Bali most especially*. And the keris was something of a more southerly analogue to the katana of Japan; while often not the weapon of first resort, it still had immense ceremonial and cultural meaning. A keris might be said to have magical powers, to house an animistic spirit, to be an heirloom, to be a token of history connecting the modern day to some legendary hero, or...to be used as a symbol of nationalism. (This last one occurred in Malaysia in 2005, though at least that event received an appropriate amount of internal criticism.) Given this, I can understand why a Japanese company implemented such a weapon as a mystical talisman; it's not too far off an outsider's perception of Japanese katana culture.

*The Philippines also have the related kalis, which is a longer variant of the keris more comparable to a sword than to a dagger.

Nidoking
Jan 27, 2009

I fought the lava, and the lava won.
Which is neat, but I was mainly referring to the nature of the passive ability it has. There are a lot of passive abilities in the game that have to do with actually using the weapon, like "drain HP/MP from enemies", and plenty that take effect simply by having the weapon equipped, like "regenerate HP/MP over time" or "increase defense against an element", while the weapon itself may or may not be useful for fighting. You can put one of those in your off-hand and use it for parrying or just two-hand the right-hand weapon to keep the effect without actually having to use the weapon with the ability. The Kris Blade specifically has a buff that only affects the use of spells, which requires you to have a catalyst in your other hand to take advantage of it, and comes with a corresponding debuff that's constant whether you're using spells or not. It seems like the intended use is to put it in your shield hand, and a different weapon along with a catalyst in your right hand. Switch equipment in both hands to cast spells, then switch back.

ThornBrain
Jan 25, 2011

Hi. I forgot your name. Whatever.
My... point is...
Hi. Your head's on fire.
Travis and I are recording some more, and we're about to attempt the Tower of Latria 3-1. We have one person who's going to attempt to invade us, but if you would like to yourself and have a character between +10 levels from 29, give us a jerkness, eh?

Wayne
Oct 18, 2014

He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself
Ah, that was fun (for jerks who don't respect PvP etiquette, anyway :razz: ). Guess who forgot Hyper Armor was a thing in this game? :sweatdrop: Glad I caught you, looks like you were almost done with the level. I'll keep trying on-and-off until you post you're done; don't want to send a PSN message and get it caught in your boss footage or something.

Edit: Looks like that's it, well, I'm glad we got any matches at all with how lousy the servers for this game are. Have fun guys and hopefully Tiffany can meet Wei again sometime. :D

Wayne fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Sep 9, 2016

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ThornBrain
Jan 25, 2011

Hi. I forgot your name. Whatever.
My... point is...
Hi. Your head's on fire.
Letting everyone know this LP is not dead. Travis and I have always had issues sharing large files due variously to internet connections, laptops that shut off internet connections to save power, and MediaFire being generally a twat regardless of internet connections. We're currently making our latest attempt to get his footage to me, but even if this one also fails, the LP will continue with just my footage for the time being.

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