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John Wick of Dogs posted:I think they should bring back the Borg in discovery series finale and have Saru defeat them by doing the entire Thriller music video shot for shot, complete with turn toward the camera at the end to show he's a Borg now, fade to black. Alex please log off and give Lower Decks two more seasons while you're there
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Apr 24, 2024 16:59
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I don't think the whole Dark Mirror of the federation is really the narrative thing of the borg. Star Trek already has that. The Borg are originally some big unknown meant to try and scare starfleet back into sector 001 by showing them that there are great and terrible things in the unknown. As if they didn't already know that.
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Apr 24, 2024 17:02
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The Dominion is "Mirror Federation".
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Apr 24, 2024 17:05
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Unless I am forgetting something, the only onscreen, as in, not subtextual or headcanon, Fed-Borg comparison comes from... Eddington.. so.. edit: i have not watched voyager and you cant make me Cookie Cutter fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Apr 24, 2024 |
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Apr 24, 2024 17:08
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Man if the midtreks had the budget these new shows have they could show some awesome borg on species 8472 pew pew fests. I'd watch a miniseries about that
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Apr 24, 2024 17:09
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You can have multiple dark mirrors that reflect different aspects. Like, you can't say the Scarecrow doesn't reflect Batman's use of fear because Two Face is already a reflection of his dual identity, that's silly
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Apr 24, 2024 17:44
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The Borg weren't the mirror federation so much as certain aspects of them taken to an extreme: they're the ultimate communists.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:08
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Cookie Cutter posted:Unless I am forgetting something, the only onscreen, as in, not subtextual or headcanon, Fed-Borg comparison comes from... Eddington.. so.. Anything Eddington says is wrong so that's a big nail in the coffin.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:16
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Surely the queen has at some point said "We're not so different you and I"
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Apr 24, 2024 18:19
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Once Half-Life was released they should have just given the Borg the scientist voice lines.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:39
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Seven trying to raise the rescued Borg children was much more cute than I remember.
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Apr 24, 2024 19:26
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The kids were okay but I feel it was a really wise decision to dump all but one when they did. That poo poo could’ve gotten real old
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Apr 24, 2024 19:38
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So are the Borg slave to some inherent directive that makes them evil? Or are they evil because 51% of the minds are evil?
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Apr 24, 2024 19:38
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Jimbone Tallshanks posted:So are the Borg slave to some inherent directive that makes them evil? Or are they evil because 51% of the minds are evil? If you have a competent writer, they aren't evil per say, but indifferent to your needs, individuality or culture over their hive decision to get something done. And if it is easiest to do by forcibly assimilating your entire civilization then that's the way it goes. I mean the Queen also could be shown as a figurehead like Locutus was, a personification of the hivemind instead of being a tyrannical despot. Better writing to "fix" the Borg would be to say that there are several hives that act autonomously, almost independently doing their mission that they don't even understand themselves. We just have been running into hives which A) have elected to have a permanent figurehead, a queen, and B) that queen has been given moderator rights to the unimatrix forums.
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Apr 24, 2024 19:45
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Jimbone Tallshanks posted:So are the Borg slave to some inherent directive that makes them evil? Or are they evil because 51% of the minds are evil? I mean the Borg aren’t going “hahaha yes destroy” they’re going “we want to perfect ourselves and also perfect those around us. Because you will appreciate it a lot more than your chaotic bullshit you got going on now” Not evil but…sociopathic? Edit: heck, Hugh was surprised to find out that humans didn’t even WANT to be assimilated Gutcruncher fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Apr 24, 2024 |
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Apr 24, 2024 19:49
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Gutcruncher posted:I mean the Borg aren’t going “hahaha yes destroy” Not until they assimilate the Captain Proton program anyways.
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Apr 24, 2024 20:02
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Jimbone Tallshanks posted:So are the Borg slave to some inherent directive that makes them evil? Or are they evil because 51% of the minds are evil? Why do you resist? We only wish to raise the quality of life for all species.
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Apr 24, 2024 20:24
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redshirt posted:lol the Borg were "ruined" as a concept on TNG, with Hue. The Borg were ruined the moment they decided to make them people with rubber crap glued to them and not freaky alien bugs, none of you are real Borg fans Do I win the scifi hipster war?
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Apr 24, 2024 21:18
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McSpanky posted:The Borg were ruined the moment they decided to make them people with rubber crap glued to them and not freaky alien bugs, none of you are real Borg fans So the real Borg are... Replicators from SG-1?
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Apr 24, 2024 21:22
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McSpanky posted:The Borg were ruined the moment they decided to make them people with rubber crap glued to them and not freaky alien bugs, none of you are real Borg fans Those insects were repurposed into being Iconian infiltrators in Star Trek Online, which between the end of ENT and start of Kelvin movies was the sole source of Paramount-overseen and sanctioned new material, so technically canon unless contradicted in the newer TV-shows. The STO ship designs and few other references turn up in PIC and DISCO so they sort-of follow this general idea. I am not certain if I am proud of the fact that I could write this without checking Memory Alpha and such.
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Apr 24, 2024 21:23
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Der Kyhe posted:If you have a competent writer, they aren't evil per say, but indifferent to your needs, individuality or culture over their hive decision to get something done. And if it is easiest to do by forcibly assimilating your entire civilization then that's the way it goes. Yeah for sure - but at the same time I don't think they ever wanted to take this route bc the the Borg are basically our biggest fears about robots, computers, and non-human sentient creatures thrown together, with a coating of insectoid behavior to make us especially uncomfortable But bugs have as much a right to exist as any other creature. Just bc they prize efficiency and communal living over the inefficiency of individuality doesn't make them evil. Even if they suddenly had the ability to crush humanity and replace us with themselves. In short, The Borg could be great but instead are portrayed as evil bc of the 90s sentiment of 90s Treks was fairly aligned with the liberal media messaging of the time - 'the truth is in the middle, extremes are always evil and liberal democracy is the ultimate good' StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Apr 24, 2024 |
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Apr 24, 2024 21:29
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McSpanky posted:The Borg were ruined the moment they decided to make them people with rubber crap glued to them and not freaky alien bugs, none of you are real Borg fans John Wick of Dogs posted:So the real Borg are... Replicators from SG-1? Neither of these things are a formless grey goo of nanomachines so clearly I'm the only right fan here.
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Apr 25, 2024 00:12
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John Wick of Dogs posted:I think they should bring back the Borg in discovery series finale and have Saru defeat them by doing the entire Thriller music video shot for shot, complete with turn toward the camera at the end to show he's a Borg now, fade to black. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4ApQrbhQp8
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Apr 25, 2024 00:34
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The previous novel continuity went with: a few individuals from a hivemind species (the Caeliar), who are made of programmable atoms, get stranded in the distant past with some NX-02 crewmen. The aliens all basically starve from being isolated from their society, until there's one left who absorbs the remains of the rest and continues to degenerate. That one then finally turns into the first nanoprobes, assimilates the last humans, makes them eat the least essential one, and puts them all to sleep to wait to be found. So there's a disembodied singular entity spread thin among every single Borg drone, it's female (I guess), it's gone insane with starvation for energy and companionship, and it doesn't remember anything other than that it used to be more perfect and is motivated to get back to that state. Picard and Ezri Dax and whoever run into the Caeliar, and they link back up with the invading Borg and instantly fix them all. Eh, I've had worse times with Star Trek novels.
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Apr 25, 2024 00:48
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Cookie Cutter posted:In fairness it is pretty hard to stick to the original concept of "massive invincible brick wall that cannot be reasoned with or beaten" We had a fantastic episode about finding all this out and running the gently caress away in the opposite direction, but if you want to keep the concept pure, what other stories can you really tell? You either run away or it wins... suggestions welcome By far the best thing they could have done with the Borg was leave them alone after Best of Both Worlds, or at the very least, the Hue episode. Back then it wasn't clear at all if their entire "civilization" was just that one cube ship or not, if you pack them in Kowloon Walled City style on that massive cube that's approaching a planet's worth of surface area. If you want to keep them interesting and just as terrifying, have them all be on that ship. You want to bring them back once or twice more, have some weirdo find some floating debris and start messing with it, maybe during a salvage operation at Wolf 359. If you want to make them reoccurring villains who are defeated over and over again in movies and multiple seasons of multiple TV shows while still keeping them scary and dangerous; don't, that's stupid. Creating a Borg Queen at all was a bad idea, but I can understand how it would be difficult to write for the Borg otherwise, and I'm sure that having on screen communication with a hallway would get tiresome. But I don't see why they had to make her so antithetical to the borg themselves. They're all about efficiency, and she's just a scenery chewing monster who stomps around her evil liar swearing that she'll get that blasted voyager next time like a Saturday Morning cartoon villain. She's petty and emotional and seems to be primarily motivated by spite. Edit: Another idea to keep the Borg interesting. They don't all live on one cube, but on a handful of cubes scattered throughout the galaxy. They all exist as nomadic parasites, harvesting whatever biological and technological distinctiveness they come across. As such each cube is wildly different in size and technology, based on what they've been able to collect and how long they've been around. Eventually once they reach a certain size they will cannibalize enough material from the main ship to build a second ship, but this is very rare. No one even knows exactly how many there are or where, so if you do manage to destroy one, you might not have to deal with anymore in your part of the galaxy for centuries, and even if you do, next time will be very different. counterfeitsaint fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Apr 25, 2024 |
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Apr 25, 2024 01:38
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It's Hugh
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Apr 25, 2024 01:40
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Dabir posted:It's Hugh Who, me?
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Apr 25, 2024 02:08
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Production posted:The previous novel continuity went with: a few individuals from a hivemind species (the Caeliar), who are made of programmable atoms, get stranded in the distant past with some NX-02 crewmen. The aliens all basically starve from being isolated from their society, until there's one left who absorbs the remains of the rest and continues to degenerate. That one then finally turns into the first nanoprobes, assimilates the last humans, makes them eat the least essential one, and puts them all to sleep to wait to be found. It sounds pretty dumb when you write it all out like that, but the author spun a good story with it.
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Apr 25, 2024 02:09
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Dabir posted:It's Hugh Yeah! It's us! ...Who are we? 
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Apr 25, 2024 02:20
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it sounds better than the books shatner ostensibly wrote about kirk defeating the borg. but well, star trek novels. somewhat adequate is as good as they get.
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Apr 25, 2024 02:34
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Kibayasu posted:Neither of these things are a formless grey goo of nanomachines so clearly I'm the only right fan here. You forget the Human Form replicators and what happens in SG-Atlantis. 
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Apr 25, 2024 02:48
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Jimbone Tallshanks posted:So are the Borg slave to some inherent directive that makes them evil? Or are they evil because 51% of the minds are evil? You are suffering. Your people are suffering. Hunger, disease, war, capitalism, cruelty, -isms, loneliness. Your children cry out for salvation. And we came. We will end your suffering. We will protect you. No one will ever hurt you again, we promise. How is that not the good guys? Oh they take away your freedom? Yeah, the fireman take away your freedom to be on fire too, but they are still the good guys.
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Apr 25, 2024 03:08
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Drink-Mix Man posted:It sounds pretty dumb when you write it all out like that, but the author spun a good story with it. It's definitely grown on me. The big leap of "the first drones were humans who would have been in the background of a particular Enterprise episode" is... they could have done something much more egregious, like time-traveling Picard somehow creates the Borg in the past. It still threatens to recontextualize the Borg interest in Earth, in ways I'm not sure they explore. I'd probably be cringing a little if they confirmed that the Borg know about and are looking for Earth from their very beginning, it would have too many implications for the first TNG Borg episodes. But I forget if they play that card. Maybe they go, "Hey, looks like we turned into those mysterious cyborgs the NX-01 ran into." But as far as the motivations of the Borg and what it implies about queens/individualism among the Borg, it's on par with how I feel about things like the Progenitor alien episode of TNG: I guess if they have to write an explanation for that, and they probably shouldn't, that makes as much sense as anything else I'd expect.
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Apr 25, 2024 03:16
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Facebook Aunt posted:You are suffering. Your people are suffering. Hunger, disease, war, capitalism, cruelty, -isms, loneliness. Your children cry out for salvation. And we came. We will end your suffering. We will protect you. No one will ever hurt you again, we promise. Alright you convinced me, where do I sign up to be borg-ified?
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Apr 25, 2024 03:42
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Outpost22 posted:Alright you convinced me, where do I sign up to be borg-ified? You can't.  It's just science fiction.
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Apr 25, 2024 03:46
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Facebook Aunt posted:How is that not the good guys? Oh they take away your freedom? Yeah, the fireman take away your freedom to be on fire too, but they are still the good guys. The gently caress he does! Ain't no gubment agent takin away muh freedoms. If he wants it, he can take my fire from my charred, dead hands! 
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Apr 25, 2024 03:50
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Watching season four of Discovery on a free trial of Paramount Plus, I don't know how you make Orions not look weird, but the show definitely didn't know how either.
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Apr 25, 2024 05:04
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https://va.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_om06vwGCuR1uvv5gh.mp4 Resistance is futile. We are going to take you to the groomer and get you a forever home.
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Apr 25, 2024 05:53
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Facebook Aunt posted:https://va.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_om06vwGCuR1uvv5gh.mp4 We are the Foster Fail
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Apr 25, 2024 06:24
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davidspackage posted:We are the Foster Fail Humans are a Vulcan foster fail. “We found these dirty hungry humans who could barely put a warp core together…we said we were just gonna give them some food and tech and hopefully some other species would take them in but they were so adorably illogical that we broke down and made a Federation with them.”
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Apr 25, 2024 06:48
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