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Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Blistex posted:

I saw 2 minutes of that a year ago while flipping channels. . . . it has not held up well at all.

reminder that b5 season budget was equal to one ST episode budget

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Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

JediTalentAgent posted:

What does a night shift matter in space on a vessel that is going from one world to another, all operating on different rotations, day-night cycles, etc.

It's not like you've got to get home from work early because your kid in a baseball game or you want to catch the latest episode of Federation Idol.

That should be a story, though: The entire night shift bridge made up of non-senior staff ends up having a major problem with an alien vessel and this crew of nobodies manages to solve a major crisis without waking the senior staff.

"No, listen, we make that call and the next thing you know you've got Janeway up here. You know who else is going to be here? Paris, Kim, Chakotay, Tuvok, all of 'em! Even Neelix will squirm his way up here. Then we're looking at a shooting war because they're all always fuckin' it up. Let's just handle this like we mostly do: Off the record!"

like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4ApQrbhQp8

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
the funny thing about robert beltran is that he kept coming up with more and more grandiose things for chakotay to do, in the hope that he'd get fired

pretty sure the seven of nine/chakotay relationship was one of those things, which is why it just sort of came out of nowhere

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Automatic Slim posted:

That's right. You won't hate yourself for watching it but you'll feel like you could've done something more interesting with your life instead using all those hours to watch a show that's too bland to be terrible.



Voyager died as it lived. Another wasted opportunity. You spend 7 sessions waiting for these people to get home but they never show what they do after they get home. DS9 had a great scene on its finale that did that. MASH did too. It's like the writers had a bunch of great ideas for this show but decided to do the exact opposite of every one instead.

voyager's a strange show

what was it, the producers told all the human cast members to be as flat as possible so the aliens had more of a time to shine? all sorts of weird things have come out all these years later

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

papa_november posted:

even better is that the amiga 4000 video toaster/sgi indigo/sun ultrasparc/dec alpha that all the effects assets were kept on got tossed out and will likely never be recovered so we're pretty much stuck with that for all eternity

on the flipside the 50-pin scsi hard drive containing all the ds9 sfx assets got found but apparently not much will be done with them anytime soon because every man, woman and child in the western hemisphere did not buy a copy of the tng blurays

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

i dunno how much effort those old assets would have ultimately saved, though. i mean, can you just take old video toaster files and stick them in modern software and click "set resolution to 1920x1080" and render?


honestly even if TNG blurays had done mindblowingly good and even if the digital assets were fully preserved, there's still a really good chance Warner Bros wouldn't have been bothered to lift a finger. not only was B5 never as popular, but WB in general never seemed to like B5 all that much. there was some really weird and nasty corporate politics going on with WB and the "PTEN" unit that B5 belonged to.

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

also i'd wonder at how well the B5 film got catalogued and archived. Paramount was pretty good about saving all the film from TNG and even that project had trouble tracking down the right film segments sometimes. it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Warner Bros accidentally discarded literally threw the film into a bonfire.

That's basically what happened.

WB claims that the warehouse with all the B5 SFX footage 'burned down'. It's why the DVDs are all stretched whenever there's a CGI shot or a composite.

JMS had always intended, as far back as the 90s, to go back and have the CGI stuff rendered again in the future.

They lost enough CGI stuff that when they did The Lost Tales a few years ago, they actually had to contact fan CGI model sites and get their models and such. It seems like everything is basically gone and WB had no wish to really care about it.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

rocket_man38 posted:

Why is it every other federation starship is incompetent or run by jackasses? Even in voyager, equinox had captain evil, and the prometheus got hijacked. Ds9 had that evil admiral in charge of the lakota, and that ship transporting Dukat got ambushed and blown up. TNG has too many to mention.

I don't know, I think Equinox was actually pretty decent.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

happyhippy posted:

Of the whole TOS crew, I like Walter the best.
I wonder if he liked Babyon 5 or TOS the most.

I remember interviews with him saying how great Bester was to play as a character (and, really, you can tell how much he enjoys being that magnificent bastard in every episode he's in), particularly because everyone always knew him as NUCLEAR WESSELS Chekov kind of stuff.

So, probably B5.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

The General posted:

I dunno. Season 5 lacks the goodness of seasons prior and they completely ruin Lennier in like the third last episode or something.

Yeah, Season 5 is a bit rough. You've got the poor telepath arc (but it gives great Bester episodes, so...) but the Centauri arc through to the end of the season is incredible. B5's final episode is the best of any series I've seen.

Hector Beerlioz posted:

Bester was a cool character, I should finish b5.

You really should!

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Hector Beerlioz posted:

Was Harlan Ellison the only person who worked on trek to work on b5

Depends on what you mean. A lot of actors did - G'Kar, Lyta, General Hague, Bester...

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

shadow puppet of a posted:

If you told me that Bill Mumy pissed someone power off and they wanted to kill every shot of him having a fan club coming out of the show, I'd believe it.

That turn was so rushed and poorly done.

Not really?

Lennier's been resenting Sheridan since like Season 3 - and he even joins the Rangers early in Season 5 in the hopes that Delenn will turn around and love him instead (I think he even literally says 'So I'll be worthy of your eyes' or something like that).

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

The General posted:

It just feels wrong. Like lennier doesn't, shouldn't have that kind of thought process. I believe he'd serve delenn till he died (like he'd move on with his life if she died first), but to actively kill a friend. No, it's weird and doesn't belong. Maybe like a moment of maybe. I dunno, it's just not right for the character.

He didn't actively try to kill Sheridan.

He just didn't help him.

I think it's a great little scene. Lennier has a tiny moment of weakness - maybe not even fifteen seconds - but it's enough to drat him. He even goes back to try and help Sheridan, but he's already made his way out. It's a very tragic flaw that surfaces for just a tiny amount of time but makes all the difference - it's very fitting to what B5 does with that sort of thing. It's a romantic, melodramatic fall from grace - Lennier, the guy who is the perfect obedient devoted servant, fails once. And it's the one failure that destroys him.

Lennier's whole thing is that he talks about how pure of heart Minbari are and how service has to come from a pure belief (I want to say he basically soapboxes at Marcus about this) - but his service never did. Morden even predicted he'd betray the Rangers. In an earlier season - again, with Marcus, I think - he goes on about how pure and good his love for Delenn is. He was always a bit obsessive and could never accept that she'd never love him like he loved her. He'd be derided as a Nice Guy if B5 came out in recent years.

Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Jun 20, 2016

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

The General posted:

The problem is JMS is a goon lord and doesn't see anything wrong with it. Or the weird future Marcus cloning Ivanova and stranding them on a planet to live out happily ever after thing.

Haha, yeah, he's definitely got some weird ideas about 'true love'. I was actually just about to edit my post to mention this - that Marcus story is utterly loving bizarre.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

What the gently caress :stare:

Yep, in the far future of B5's post-series timeline, Marcus is restored to life, brought out of his cryogenic suspension. With everyone he knows dead and awake in a world that's thousands of years removed from his own, he ends up bringing Ivanova back to life.

I think he has one of her hairs on his coat or something.

Anyways, an Ivanova clone is created and Marcus ends up stranding himself and her on some empty world while giving her some bogus story like "Our White Star was damaged and we had to crash on this planet. The rest of the crew were killed but we just need to wait for Sheridan to find us."

Which will never happen.

It's one of the worst things in the B5 franchise. It's just scummy and weird and repulsive.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
if you don't like space captain tron then you can get the gently caress out

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Neddy Seagoon posted:

They really had no idea what they were doing past New Caprica. Iirc, the Final Five were supposedly chosen by tossing darts at a wall.

Essentially, yes. For some of them, like Tyrol, it works.

For some of them, like Ellen and Saul, it's mind numbingly weird and creates all sorts of continuity problems.

For others, like Anders and Tory, it's 'lol who cares' and 'lol this would have had more impact if it was Billy' respectively.

I guess one out of five isn't too bad?

BSG had no plans past New Caprica and then the writer's strike torpedoed their original, grittier plan. Everything just kind of... ended. It wasn't a bad ending by any means but it was just... an ending. Things finished in a way that was acceptable but slightly disappointing.

That, and a lot of people were pissed that they talked about angels and God and poo poo.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Tighclops posted:

I got the impression that BSG's ending was the first inkling a lot of people had that angels and God and poo poo are typically unsatisfying answers to any questions

Maybe, but it was consistent throughout the show. Six says she's an angel as far back as the miniseries.

The problem is Battlestar removed any sense of ambiguity as the series went on. Was Baltar crazy? Did he have a chip in his head? Was he seeing an actual angel? Up until the end, the show kept things ambiguous. Much like Roslin's visions - was she actually a prophet, or was she just high on anti-cancer drugs?

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

What was the original plan?

Zarek wins the coup and the Galactica. Adama and co. are stranded on the rebel Baseship. With Zarek's incompetent leadership, the Cylons attack and wipe out the civilian fleet in its entirety. Adama leads a suicide mission on the Colony because everyone is loving dead. Galactica crash lands on Earth. Ellen Tigh is on the side of the Cylons. Some other stuff.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Gammatron 64 posted:

So, immediately after getting out of Star Trek Beyond and enjoying the hell out of it... I see the teaser for CBS' new show, Star Trek: Discovery. And showrunner Bryan Fuller says that Voyager is his favorite series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqm9HSYbf0o

Welp. That might have been the fastest buzzkill I've ever had.

I have a headache. I need to lie down.

holy poo poo that looks bad

terrible starship design, generic music, terrible SFX, weak CGI...

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

holy poo poo, is that the skeevy lawyer guy from the wire?

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

The Endbringer posted:

that ep with the betazoid murderer was cool because he's the guy who played the stuttering loony in one flew over the cuckoos nest and that guy in lord of the rings who corrupts the king of gondor

Big Mean Jerk posted:

And the serial killer in the X-Files

and a serial killer on babylon 5

hmmmmmm

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
"Computer, is there any way to generate a nude Tayne?"

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Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

OH gently caress






I'm okay

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