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twoday
May 4, 2005



C-SPAM Times best-selling author
I'm a historian in the Netherlands. I'm often in the archives at the Hague looking at old documents, and the national genealogy center is right next door. So if anyone needs some info from there, hit me up.

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twoday
May 4, 2005



C-SPAM Times best-selling author

Snapchat A Titty posted:

I'd like to take you up on that offer :)

I'm supposed to be a descendant of Gabriel Milan (~1631–89), who was governor of the Danish West Indies. All known descendants are through his son Carl Friderich Milan (died Copenhagen 1738). Danish historians agree that C.F. was born circa 1676, likely in Amsterdam, to Gabriel Milan & his second wife Juliana Regina von Breitenbach. It is known that Gabriel Milan's first wife died 1675 at the latest, and that Juliana Regina von Breitenbach was a widow. It is not known when they married.

I have discovered a baptism in the Evangelisch Luthers doopregisters for Amsterdam:



Note that the register is slightly odd: It's divided into years, and each year is divided into letters. For each year & letter, the baptisms are listed chronologically by first initial of the named child. However, the Carel Vreederijck entry is on a loose scrap of paper, affixed with a needle (visible above/below "Regina") on the page where the letter C begins for the year 1676. It is not from the same hand as the other writings in the register.

I believe that this is the baptismal record of the man who dies in Copenhagen 1738. If so, Carl Friderich/Carel Vreederijck is not the son of Milan, but of Juliana Regina and her first husband, and he assumed the name Milan (or was simply called that) after his step-father.

So, that leaves some questions:

1. When/where did Milan's first wife die? Her full name is unknown, but her surname is said to have been "de Castro", and she was the daughter of Benjamin Musaphia (Sephardi Jews often carried several names). I have tried looking at the Portugees Israëlitsch records that were available at genver.nl. I can't get them to work right now, but as I recall there was a lacuna covering the years around 1675.

2. Where is the original baptismal record for Carel Vreederijck van Barlebendt junior? Was he born outside of Amsterdam, and the scrap of paper only later supplied to the priest there? Or was his entry skipped by accident and the scrap inserted as a correction?

3. When/where did Carel Vreederick van Barlebendt senior die? And who was he? I have been unable to locate any useful variants on the van Barlebendt surname. There seem to be a lot of von Breitenbach/van Breedenbachs all over the Germanic areas.

4. When/where did Milan and von Breitenbach marry? It is known that Milan was in Amsterdam in 1676, in Utrecht in the winter of 1678 (staying with Baron Jacob de Petersen), and that he arrived in Copenhagen in July of 1678. It is presumed that von Breitenbach accompanied him to Copenhagen. They are known to have been married by 1679.

5. What were their denominations? Danish historians believe that Juliana Regina von Breitenbach was Dutch reformed. Milan is supposed to have converted to (or reaffirmed) protestantism on January 1, 1682 in Hamburg. Was he until then part of the Jewish community like his father-in-law Musaphia presumably was, or was he catholic like some other conversos? And how does all that fit with the supposed Lutheran protestant baptism of Carel Vreederijck?

Any comments & suggestions welcome! :)

Ok, sorry for the late reply.

The loose scrap of paper is interesting. Here is my guess:

A lot of these registers were big books, left open somewhere, with new information filled in whenever it arrived. This was usually chronological only. But the book you described is both chronological and alphabetical, so it could have been a copy compiled sometime later, when they already had all the names of the kids who were born, and these were copied in chronological/alphabetical order. Now, for some reason this entry was left out in the new compilation and had to be reinserted later on a scrap of paper. My guess is the scribe who did the copying and alphabetizing simply overlooked it, and this was only noticed later, and it was added in (which is why it's in a different hand). I highly doubt the child was born outside of Amsterdam if there is no mention of it here.

As for the other stuff, those questions are a bit too time consuming for me to answer right now. What I can do is poke around in the genealogy database in The Hague next time I'm there. They have files organized by family name and people who help you sort through this sort of stuff. So I'll keep it in mind. I have no idea when I'll be back in The Hague though, so please don't expect a quick response.

Edit: Maybe there is something useful in the Amsterdam city archive so too, let's see when I have more time to help you with this.

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