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I don't think they had the booklets in Sweden, they had a much more effective system in Husforhörslängder that are effectively yearly censuses all through the 1800s. Also most of these booklets have been destroyed because who would save them? Also the law was in effect while our population grew from 1.2 to 2.5 million people over 60 years, something like that, so there has been a million of them probably. I do have a transcript of the 1830s traveler's booklet due to the fraud case, and it has the older woman's data: "Jane Doe, born ..., parents are ... and ..., baptized ..., confirmed ... , vaccined ... , etc". So the booklet was issued to the older woman, but also it had been edited (hence the fraud case). Btw: From ~1875 we had booklets for foreigners working in Denmark. Mostly Swedes, but lots of Poles and Germans working in southern Denmark. I think the cooler thing is that before 1875 there were pretty much no laws at all regarding immigration. As long as you weren't obviously not a lutheran (Jews were ok in Copenhagen, Huegenots in Fredericia, etc, but otherwise you had to be lutheran), you could pretty much just arrive with a piece of paper and go like "yeah, my lord in Germany or wherever, he said I could travel so that's what I'm doing. Can I hang out here?" Here's a Russian "passport" from the 1830s I think (not my family so I didn't make sure to take a good photo):  And a Danish "passport" from 1781:  PS: The Danish one makes sure to mention that he's traveling from a city that is not befouled by disease neither man or beast
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Apr 15, 2017 04:51
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They're called "opholdsbog". They functioned pretty much identically with Skudsmaalsbøger (for tyende = servants) and Vandrebøger (for håndværkere = craftsmen). Probably not many have been saved, as many probably threw theirs away when they were no longer needed. Here's an example of one: http://www.emu.dk/sites/default/files/20.%20Opholdsbog%20for%20J%F6ns%20Knutsson%20-%20originalt%20dokument.pdf Originally, the church registers were used to keep track of persons moving about, but as part of the same 1875 system of laws, this was done in tyendeprotokoller by the sognefoged. Some of these protocols can be found in the national archives, some are in local archives, and some sognefoged-archives have been folded into kommunal-archives. http://wiki.dis-danmark.dk/index.php/Tyendeprotokol Note this is for the kingdom, there will probably be differences in the Schleswig-Holstein areas.
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Apr 19, 2017 21:58
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Maybe the personregistre are useful? http://wiki.dis-danmark.dk/index.php/Standesamt https://www.sa.dk/ao-soegesider/da/collection/theme/5 Or the lægdsruller (see latter link)
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Apr 20, 2017 10:43
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Sounds intense! If there exist like reports and such in the military archives, you should definitely try and check them out! Just spent 5 hrs today + 5 hrs last weekend scanning a binder full of all sorts of documents that my maternal grandparents saved throughout their lives. Letters from family & friends, real estate deeds, insurance claims, community stuff, newspaper clippings, certificates, what-have-you. Luckily my parents saved all papers that looked "interesting" when they were going through & cleaning up the estate. I had no idea there was so much! Like: A 1960 schedule between grandma and 6 others from the town, for a communally owned washing machine, who gets to have it which days... A list of expenses for a family celebration in 1915... Smallpox vaccination certificates from the 1800s... An undated draft of a sermon that my great grandfather probably held in the 1920s or 30s... A letter from June 1945 where my grandfather's brother describes his travails being suspected of espionage... Haven't had time to really read anything yet, just noticed things while scanning 
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May 6, 2017 16:50
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It's super easy to get caught up in the excitement of long and notable ancestry lines when you start out. I know I was less than critical in the early days of my research and I've had to correct some mistakes later on. Luckily none too embarassing. The biggest problem is copying other research wholesale without verifying every link yourself. Danish genealogist J.C.L. Lengnick wrote in the 1840s: "One would do well in seeing what is given only as a guideline, and thereby examine the sources." Many members of the society I'm in have completely sworn off collaborative sites because they make it too hard to fix the mistakes that keep getting added again & again. E: someone literally just started a thread on that forum about "what's the longest you've come back" and he links to Odin on geni.com lol https://www.geni.com/people/Odin/6000000001169221592 Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 07:33 on May 31, 2017 |
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May 31, 2017 07:27
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The interesting thing to me is being able to prove it. As far as I know, Icelandic genealogies have pretty much been documented as much as they can for the entire population. This is of course only possible because of their geographical isolation. So in theory it should be possible to document yourself as a relative of Leif Erickson if you have ancestors in that area/period. I don't remember if he had kids or you'll be like a 2nd cousin 20th removed, though. See also the app that tells young Icelanders if they're too much cousins so they know whether to date or not. I think I read about a Jewish app like that too at some point? But yeah in general, the ancestral & descendant lineages of European royalty and nobility have been pretty exhaustively documented, and if you can connect to them somewhere, you get a ton of ancestors for free. It's not that interesting to me though, I prefer the digging into sources that I might be the first to discover. I usually just put a note "this guy was a son of [noble person] whose ancestry can be traced back to [progenitor], see [source]" and stop there. Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Jun 1, 2017 |
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Jun 1, 2017 18:21
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Naming conventions don't change the advantage significantly in my experience. It's just a different way of searching. Instead of knowing the father's surname, you know his given name. You still have to figure out which of the possibly several men with that name are the correct one. It's only really annoying when say a register of 1700s probates is sorted by last name & you have to go all the way through looking at first names to find potential fathers. E: also bourgeouis/noble names and bynames were inherited even when we still used patronymics, so like a dude called Rasmus Pedersen Brown would probably be the son of Peder [_____son] Brown... But also depending on time/place, the byname stuck by the farm closer than it stuck by the blood, so Rasmus Brown could have married the daughter of some unknown Brown and gotten the name that way. I guess the main lesson is to read up on naming conventions where you're researching, it'll save you a lot of trouble. Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Jun 2, 2017 |
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Jun 1, 2017 21:14
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Oh dang, yeah Rufnamen (which of their multiple first names they use in daily life) are super important in German genealogy. Copenhagen almost got really bad about it too, especially in the latter half of the 1800s, but it blew over thank god. They got pretty creative though: - Agda Maximiliana Eugenia Carla Larsen (born 1881) - Martin Peter Christian Theodor Ferdinand Larsen (born 1866) - Vilhelmine Adolphine Sophie Marie Lindberg (born 1853) - Angelica Napoline Florentine Francisca Larsen (born 1843) - Poul Henning Harald Heimburger Lindberg (born 1895) - Elvira Frederikke Emilie Johanne Axcine Philipsen (born 1879) like, come on, you're killing the poor children with those names Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 09:24 on Jun 2, 2017 |
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Jun 2, 2017 09:20
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At some point the govt literally said "4 given names + 1 surname is the limit", i forgot when
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Jun 2, 2017 09:21
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i forgot to mention some more weird first given names: - Alfa Anna Kirstine Olsen (born 1899) - Omega Adelaide Constance Anna Amalie Larsen (born 1905) They aren't related at all
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Jun 2, 2017 09:26
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That sounds pretty progressive actually! In the 20th century I've seen English women keep their maiden name as a middle name, then adding on surnames from men she married and survived.. For instance, a woman born Helen Annandale, who married a Burdett and then he dies and she marries a Ross. Sometimes she would be called Helen Annandale Burdett Ross... Not sure how official that is, though. Also I don't have lines that cross into the 19th century, but I'm definitely interested in hearing more
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Jun 2, 2017 10:22
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Tbh It surprises me that yall can "identify" religion like from names like that. I mean I'm only recently beginning to notice certain name combinations that are more common in say north mainland Denmark as compared to south island Denmark. German names anywhere I'd only be able to say "south of here" p much I guess it's kindof the same in a way -- you all probably have a ton of various English type ancestors, and I have a ton of various small Danish village ancestors :p Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Jun 6, 2017 |
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Jun 6, 2017 06:27
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Dang that makes a lotta sense also in here we were all the same religioin anyway so the naming after ancestors was more inportant than kings & saints i guess..
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Jun 6, 2017 15:56
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Finished transcribing ~80 headcounts for so-called "extra taxes" levied in my hometown 1610–58. Usually there was only 1 or 2 extra tax per year, but sometimes up to 5   It's pretty much necessary to check and compare every single list, cause they appear to be based on who could pay for that given tax. Sometimes only the manor and the mill (top two short sections respectively) were taxed, sometimes only the fishermen (long bottom section). I guess those who couldn't pay would pay later, but I'm not sure where that would be written or if anything like that is even preserved. I've seen some royal remissions of owed taxes but not nearly enough to account for the variations in the lists. They seem to generally be written in the same order each year, probably based on the cadasters. Though there are some strange inconsistensies still, sometimes the yearly cadasters list people who have obviously died/left and their house is lived in by someone else who pays taxes/yearly land fees in their own name. Anyway so far it's gotten my longest line back to a man who must have been born ~1588 at the latest as he is paying taxes at least from 1613. Not sure exactly what the law was then, but the 1683 law states age of majority as 25 for men (but they could start a family at 20 if permitted by parents), and it was afaik an update and codification of earlier practice. Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jun 15, 2017 |
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Jun 15, 2017 00:49
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Writing up a short piece on the known descendants of the first priest of my hometown (mentioned 1576, died 1585), using the stuff I've found in the land records. So far I have 3 generations (~1645), and some tenuous connections to other descendants. My hope is it will be possible to find a line that goes into the 1700s as it will likely then be possible to extend into current time.
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Jul 13, 2017 09:14
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Nice work Jaguars! Old maps like that really give a sense of where your ancestors lived and definitely help spice it up for sharing with relatives
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Jul 18, 2017 20:59
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Btw, I use LaTeX for typesetting my genealogical research & the genealogytree package is super neat!
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Jul 19, 2017 16:18
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Disclaimer: I haven't tried DNA-genealogy. I remember there used to be a project called HapMap but it looks like it's defunct? Anyway it seems like this wiki page is kept pretty up to date though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Y-chromosome_DNA_haplogroup I've been going through Danish royal missives from the 1700s to see if I can identify a potential grandson of the West Indies governor Gabriel Milan I mentioned earlier in the thread. According to an ecyclopedia of painters, there's an unidentified J. Milan who shows up for a ~15 year period that doesn't correlate with any of the known Milan sons. TFW you discover a possible lead that turns out to be huguenot Jacob Melan, a french tobacco planter from France who is totally unrelated to the governor Milan 
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Aug 4, 2017 22:10
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Pulling out one sentence:Owlkill posted:basically the locals just adapt to whatever the norms of the latest overlord are Yeah that is my understanding of medieval societies as well: The serfs, copyholders, etc, they were through generations "used to" their lords being changed around once in a while. They sowed & tilled their (usually leased) land and paid whatever to their superiors as long as they could, but aside from that they weren't really a part of society/politics. Just take it one day at a time, pay your "dues" and get on with your life. Of course sometimes it got bad, some lord would extract a too steep tax (usually cause the king did the same from him), and they'd revolt a little, but the system itself wasn't in question until much later.
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Aug 4, 2017 22:52
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MyHeritage has free access to their census searches this week: http://news.legacyfamilytree.com/legacy_news/2017/08/free-access-to-1-billion-records-this-week.html US, U.K. & Ireland, Canada, Sweden, Finland, Denmark
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Aug 16, 2017 13:21
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MyHeritage seems alright, but there's no way I'm paying a subscription for doing my genealogy research. Local files 4 lyf e: lol my genealogy folder is 110 gigabytes Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Aug 17, 2017 |
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Aug 17, 2017 18:02
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Yeah my stuff is backed up in the cloud too, I'd probably die if I lost my research.Bilirubin posted:Stormfronters confront their not so white DNA tests: http://www.businessinsider.com/white-nationalists-genetic-ancestry-tests-dont-like-results-2017-8 lmao
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Aug 18, 2017 06:14
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Re: bad ancestors, I mentioned on page 1 that I'm possibly a descendant of an early colonial governor, with all the slavery & inhumanity that entails. Aside from that guy, there's a number of smalltime crooks; mostly fisticuffs & forgeries & such. Then there's the married couple in Copenhagen who drunkenly beat the poo poo out of each other and their neighbors, servants, & apprentices; they show up in the police records about 20 times over a 10 year period. They eventually divorced but the husband died from tuberculosis before the proceedings could be finalized. The widow/divorcee later became a midwife on the island of Bornholm and was apparently not well-liked by the locals, as she complains to the police multiple times that two older women are practicing midwifery (the old women claim it is because the pregnant women don't like her).
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Aug 18, 2017 19:50
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drat, doesn't look like it's available here in Denmark Ah well, I don't think there's much there that I need to use anyway and also their data is probably really bad and wrong
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Aug 26, 2017 18:57
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I agree, that comparison makes pretty clear that it's "Butcher". Also, though it looks like it says he's from Russia, I wonder if he was in England during the April 1, 1901 census – perhaps that could clarify. It's available online at multiple places. Another option would be to look into the men listed below him in the original pic. They all should have the same occupation, might be sufficient to search the 1905/1910 US censuses & see if there's a majority of butchers under those names.
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Aug 30, 2017 04:14
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The B and u have become merged in the sloppy handwriting. It's def butcher imo. Tortilla Maker: he's a Retail Merchant German church records: http://archion.de (paysite)
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Aug 30, 2017 05:04
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Yeah, that's true. I'm personally waiting for the Schleswig-Holstein records (Norddeutschland). You can check which archives have signed up here: https://www.archion.de/de/archive-in-archion/ You can browse which specific church registers are currently available without signing up: https://www.archion.de/de/browse/ And finally you can follow progress here. They're putting online stuff from Landeskirchen Hanover & Norddeutschland currently: https://www.archion.de/de/news/neue-digitalisate/
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Aug 30, 2017 09:04
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I'm plugging holes (missing dates, names, etc) in a tree that I'm going to publish, but I keep finding more persons  Finally found the death records of a guy I had been looking for forever. His death recorded said he was divorced (all the census records had said he was unmarried, but of course that info was self-reported). So I go through a decade of marriage records and find the marriage, and it again said he was divorced. Fucker was twice divorced but pretended he never was married. He even had a kid. So now I have the names & birth data for his two ex wives, but ugh tracking down divorced/unmarried women in the mid 20th century is a pain in the rear end cause they're more likely to be renters who aren't listed at all in the major phone/address books of the time, and there are no publicly available census records or transcripts. I guess I'll have to go through another couple decades of marriage records to see if they remarry. 
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Sep 7, 2017 16:42
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Jaguars! posted:Are electoral rolls available in your country? They don't have as much information as censuses, but they generally contain a contact address and can provide a means of tracking someone's movements through the years. Nope  Since the ~1930s you'd automatically be registered to vote through the civil registration system (established nationally in 1968, but existed on a county basis before then). Those records still exist but are only publicly available if older than 75 years. I'd have to apply for a permit to personally search the records for these women (usually only given to descendants, which I am not). I guess there's an option to request their last known address if they lived past 1968. I might have to bite the bullet and pay for that (it's not a lot, but it feels like cheating hehe).
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Sep 8, 2017 06:08
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That's a very reasonable hypothesis imo, but where does Merinam enter the picture? fwiw, marinam is accusative feminine singular of marīnus (marine, adj), as in "videō ___ marinam" (I see the __ of the sea) – I think, anyway, I don't actually speak latin 
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Sep 9, 2017 07:09
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Also I've been cleaning up a thing I wrote earlier, it's looking pretty spiffy even if I do say so myself.   
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Sep 9, 2017 08:06
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Ah. I read that more as Merimar than Merinam but I'm not 100% on it. Also I'm out drinking port but I'll look closer tomorrow Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Sep 9, 2017 |
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Sep 9, 2017 15:02
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Habiendosrene presentado el estrangero Sa- muel Turill, originar(o?) de San Antonio de Bejar, y etc i think, but: de D(on) Juan Turill y de D(oña) Rebeca Marimar in
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Sep 10, 2017 12:26
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Thanks! I dunno, maybe... It's a lot of work so you'd have to make me an offer  Fwiw I use LaTeX with Memoir & microtype. Fonts are ebgaramond for the main text and the titles are a Fette Gotisch from somewhere online. I'm working on separating all my little tweaks out into a .sty file though so I can put it online somwhere for others to use.
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Sep 15, 2017 18:42
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Man, someone on geni.com has put up some really small low-res headshots of some of my direct ancestors that I don't have any photos of myself. I wrote her originally in 2014 asking for copies, and she told me she just moved and would get back to me when she'd settled in, but she hasn't I've checked back a couple of times since but I'm afraid she's blowing me off. At least I've saved the crappy small photos but God I wish I could get the full sized ones.
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Sep 17, 2017 20:08
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I feel like I've tried looking everywhere without any luck. Thanks, if you'll take a look that'd be awesome! I'll send a PM with some links, they're accessible for all I'm pretty sure.
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Sep 18, 2017 18:06
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Well she got back to me finally! It appears she got the photos from MyHeritage. She'll try and track down more precisely from whom she got them. I've also sent some messages to some other folks that appear to have many photos for other descendants of those people.
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Sep 21, 2017 14:48
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Well my great uncle died this tuesday, funeral is today. I've mentioned him a couple of times I think, he's been a big encouragement in my genealogical excursions. He had an excellent memory and a huge archive of photos and postcards and all kinds of stuff. I remember being at an event at the local archive where they were showing old photos and asking people to identify them, and he could name so many people and places even from before his own birth, "oh that's Peter the shoemaker's dad, the photo was taken in the back yard of the house on Harbour Street that was torn down in the 30s"... He was born June 8, 1919 and so got to be 98 years old. He still regularly rode his bike down to the beach for a swim in 2015, maybe even 2016. In the past year or so, he had a recurring pneumonia & was confined to a wheelchair and needed an oxygen thing. He was in good spirits, though, and went peacefully in his sleep. And a handsome man as well! Photo circa 1940: 
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Oct 6, 2017 08:34
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Yeah I don't think there was a lot more he could've asked for re life. The funeral was nice, if you can say that. And I'll second that, please ask your elders for as much as they remember before it's too late.
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Oct 6, 2017 19:21
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I've been looking for an ancestor in Alsace so I can say this: The territory has been contested between France & Germany for century but now theyre nations (literally) & lol at your ineffective youtube comments
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Oct 7, 2017 06:10
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