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I really wish we could have a headset with the comfort of the PSVR, the simplicity of the Rift, and the tracking of the Vive. After a few years of messing around with the DK1 and DK2, and being really impressed with Gear VR, I was hoping to buy a headset some time this year, but they all have tiny issues (and lacking content) that keep me from paying the price for one. I thought the PSVR might be the one I'd end up with, particularly if people got it working on PC (and you know that's coming eventually), but the potential tracking issues are really souring me on it until more impressions come out and there've been a few more firmware updates.
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Oct 14, 2016 09:04
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Blue Star posted:This poo poo needs to be said!!! So is there any reason you posted this in all of the VR-related threads you could find and why every single post on yours in this thread is just reiterating over and over how you're sure it's going to flop?
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Oct 17, 2016 07:32
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Blue Star posted:But is it merely cool or do you think VR has some greater utility to bring to the world? Why does it need to be more than that? Like, a shitload of technology has industrial uses (scientific, military, medical, etc), a large swath of consumers who're just going to use it for games and porn, and some people in the middle who don't need it but can find cool uses for it that weren't initially considered. "It doesn't immediately change the world" is not a terribly compelling argument because who the hell considers that the bar to clear? Even the iPhone and iPod took a couple years to really get rolling, we only got consumer VR products a few months ago. You've been trolling this thread for a while now insisting that nobody actually cares about this or is interested in it and it's all a big stupid nerdy thing, while showing repeatedly that you have only the vaguest sense of what it actually is. You've insisted that nobody's considered how to meaningfully translate games or other media into VR when that's all people involved in the tech have been doing for the past three years now and a ton of progress has actually been made on that front. There are demos out there. Try them. sethsez fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Oct 23, 2016 |
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Oct 23, 2016 12:30
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Stick100 posted:It's what they have (remember their headset only runs funky UWP/WinStore VR builds right now), but holy hell they should've paid 100k to have gotten Space Pirate trainer or anything better than that. I'm sure their looking at Business VR more than personal VR but yeah this looks like junk. They've been showing it off with Space Pirate Trainer, though. That's specifically one of the games that keeps getting brought up as something they have. And it does have a Guardian-esque system.
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Oct 5, 2017 18:01
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GlyphGryph posted:Nothing about it seems particularly appealing. It might be a good game, I just don't see any reason to believe it would be. Regardless of VR, if you like first person puzzle games I have no idea why you'd pass up The Talos Principle, it's one of the best games in the genre and reviewed extremely well with just about everyone.
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Oct 18, 2017 06:53
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GlyphGryph posted:See, I read stuff like this and give it another look... and then I rewatch the trailers and they make it look so loving incredibly stupid and dumb, and none of the reviews actually seem to mention anything remotely worthwhile about it, so I just end up coming away confused. It's mostly reminiscent of when people were raving about Fez, which also reviewed extremely well and was one of the most painfully lovely games I have ever played. (Maybe it got a lot better after the two hour mark, but that was as much as I could stomach) Well with criticisms such as "stupid" and "dumb" how could anyone possibly hope to argue?  It's got consistently outstanding puzzle design that frequently rewards noticing unusual solutions and a clever, well-written plot that manages to build a pretty compelling world and set of characters mostly out of inference, and the DLC takes that and runs with it with more complicated, interconnected puzzles and a plot that's primarily about a group of AIs attempting to understand humanity through an old corrupted dump of wikipedia, and all the misunderstandings and conflicting information that implies. It's funny, clever, and has a lot of memorable moments. But since you never really say what looks so lovely about it beyond "people say it's good but it looks like a poopie" it's kind of hard to respond, especially since you seem to like The Witness which is extremely similar (unlike Fez, which it has basically nothing in common with). So again, LASER BEAM DREAM posted:Has anyone tried the prescription lens inserts from WIDMOVR? I just ordered a set as they were the only ones on reddit with decent user reviews that I saw. I have some 3D printed lens inserts that appear pretty similar and it's been great for me. Not having to use my glasses in the Rift makes it actually enjoyable to use. sethsez fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Oct 18, 2017 |
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Oct 18, 2017 19:40
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CapnBry posted:Great, just picked it up! I guess I've gotten a little gunshy about VR titles when there's so many that are like an hour "experience" instead of a full game, and cost doesn't seem to be a good indicator. $40 for a full-length VR title? SOLD Yeah, it's a full game plus a large expansion that got ported to VR, not a game that was built from the ground up for VR that tries to cut its losses. There's a lot there and it's pretty much all great. Also, I do recommend reading all the text, especially in the DLC, as the excellent writing is one of the big draws.
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Oct 19, 2017 21:26
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Looking at headsets, I think the Vive's probably the better long-term option of the two. The Oculus is a solid device, but their plans indicate just complete headset iterations while Vive seems to be leaning towards an incremental Ship of Thesus process with the coming foveated lens inserts, wireless mount and headphone upgrades. It'll cost about the same to upgrade, but spaced out over time and you're not caught out with replacing the entire headset in one go and it's not hard to guess a standalone upgrade kit for just the display headset down the line. The Rift is getting the same wireless system and already has replaceable headphones with optional earbuds available. The Vive definitely has more potential for upgrades, though, I agree with that.
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Oct 31, 2017 23:15
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Lemming posted:I'm saying I think the cases where it's a step down are so rare (as in, ones where you specifically need the positional tracking and there are no tricks you can use that work sufficiently well) it'll be a non issue for most, so being inside out and not needing to bother with any other external setup will be worth it Eh, I'm not so sure. It basically neuters any game that relies on hand tracking for locomotion, and that's a decent-enough chunk that I don't see Oculus taking a step back with their Rift line. They've already got Go and Santa Cruz as alternative models for people willing to make sacrifices like that, so for the Rift I imagine they're going to wait until inside-out tracking provides an identical experience to what currently exists before jumping on it. Anything else would just create more confusion and compatibility issues, which is the last thing VR needs right now.
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Nov 13, 2017 21:37
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Lemming posted:You still get rotational tracking, so hand direction based locomotion will still work fine. With the wider fov you get from four cameras you'll still get positional tracking as well past your vision, up until you start putting your hand behind you. It'll work fine for that case. I'm not talking about locomotion based on your hand direction, I'm talking about games where you pull or launch yourself through the environments with your hands. Lone Echo is the most obvious one, but there's also plenty of climbing games out there, and then stuff like Windlands and such with unique movement mechanics. And I'm sure there's plenty of other examples I'm not even considering, because developers have had well over a year at this point to build their games with the expectation that hands are fully positionally tracked entirely divorced from the headset, and Oculus isn't going to walk that back in a direct follow-up to the Rift. They've got a store filled with software built on certain expectations, they don't have the luxury Microsoft does of starting from zero.
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Nov 13, 2017 21:56
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AgentF posted:Could you reliably tell me which direction is precisely "forward" on the thumbstick's circular area of movement? It's significantly easier to tell precisely which direction is up on a thumbstick before pressing it than it is with a touchpad, since the angle and resistance it provides differs based on the direction and since you can feel where its neutral setting is before you move with it. With a touchpad your choices are making the center of the pad neutral (making it difficult to know precisely where the center is without looking or developing muscle memory for it), making the point of initial touch neutral (making it harder to return to), or requiring clicking in the pad as confirmation (allowing the player to find precisely where they want to move before confirming it, but being a bit obnoxious ergonomically). Touchpads are definitely better than sticks for some things, particularly things like radial menus or anything involving scrolling or swiping (though I'd argue these aren't particularly vital functions in a format that also has hand tracking), and there's an argument to be made that they're better for looking around in an FPS than a second analog stick, which doesn't really apply to VR. But for directional movement they require more compromises.
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Jun 24, 2018 14:00
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AgentF posted:Because the trackpad is always in the same position, and because it has a slight curve in it, I always know precisely which part of the touchpad I am touching. It's certainly possible to learn, but the issue remains that you don't get any physical feedback about where you're touching the touchpad until you've already touched it, while an analog stick can be touched without anything happening. It's the same reason virtual buttons and sticks suck on phone games: when you don't get any feedback until you've already performed the action, there's more room for error, while sticks and buttons provide neutral states you can still feel and require further confirmation before they actually do anything. That neutral state of interaction makes a big difference for most people in being comfortable and accurate with most control methods, particularly when you can't just look down and see where your hands are relative to the controller to get your bearings.
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Jun 24, 2018 19:35
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AgentF posted:The answer to this is you lift your thumb off the trackpad. Instantly done. The point is that it's easier to predict which direction you're going to be pressing if you're always starting from a consistent neutral position. HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Lack of physical feedback. Sure. That's why joysticks in modern jets don't move. They still give physical feedback in the form of resistance.
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Jun 25, 2018 00:41
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:And the trackpad has haptic vibrations. Which doesn't actually address any of the issues because the complaint has never been "I can't tell that the trackpad is there."
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Jun 25, 2018 00:58
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:The complaint is there's no physical feedback. There is - haptic. Feedback exists. It is not nearly as good, as reliable or as intuitive as feedback from resistance when using the touchpad as a method of indirect directional control. It's great for swipes, mouse emulation, 1:1 movement, radial menus, etc, but we're not talking about those.
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Jun 25, 2018 01:11
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AgentF posted:Sorry, why are we trying to find the centre? Analog directional controls, whether they be a thumbstick or a pressure stick or a joystick or a touchpad, all function relative to a neutral center. Direction is based on the angle from the center, and speed is based on the distance (or pressure, in the case of a pressure stick) from the center. It's what the whole control method is oriented around, and is the primary thing that separates it from more direct control methods like mice (or touchpads when they're used for 1:1 mouse-like controls). Difficultly in locating the center translates directly into difficulty using the control method with any precision.
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Jun 25, 2018 19:39
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Lemming posted:Yeah but why not just VR, what is the advantage of being able to see the rest of your depressing office Because VR falls flat on its face the second you need to do any task at all that involves something not computer-related. You can't easily interact with a person in the same room, you can't refer to printed materials or other real-life references, it's going to be a bigger pain for anyone who isn't already a touch typist or times when you have to use a less-common key combination, it's far more limiting basically any time you need to get up and move since you can't do so in any kind of shared space without removing the headset, etc. Everything VR can do for business, AR can also do, and it can do it without isolating people. Immersion is fantastic for simulations, but it's meaningless for office work, so I can't think of a single reason why anyone would prefer VR for that purpose other than the fact that VR is in a more advanced state right now, but as it is neither of them are in a position to replace monitors currently, we're talking about a hypothetical future.
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Aug 12, 2018 04:42
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Also it doesn't do room-scale, so I'm surprised you're all for it yet still claim a seated experience isn't good enough to get people using VR. But... the entire point of Santa Cruz is that it's 6DoF hand-tracked stand-alone room-scale. Did you think it was just a higher-powered Go? 
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Aug 30, 2018 10:00
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I thought it just did the kinda-sorta-head-in-a-bubble thing rather than actual roomscale? No, that's the Lenovo Mirage Solo, which also only has a single 3DoF controller. The Santa Cruz is full room-scale with two controllers that appear to work about the same as the WMR ones, and an upgraded Guardian system (which Daydream doesn't have any version of yet, which is probably why the Mirage Solo locks you out of moving too far by default).
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Aug 30, 2018 10:58
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Fair enough. Makes sense it'd be a problem far more solvable with an integrated device. Yeah, GearVR and phone-based Daydream overheat because everything is crammed together far more than it needs to be for a VR headset because... they're phones. Things can be spread out and cooled far more efficiently when it doesn't need to be constructed to fit in your pocket, and overheating isn't an issue with any of the standalone headsets out so far.
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Sep 27, 2018 05:12
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Lemming posted:Yeah I did, fast notes: you could trip the tracking when your head turns fast you can make it break, the hands weren't perfect, but good lord the experience as a whole was not anything I was expecting and this thing is gonna be loving huge. Can't wait for release How was the tracking compared to WMR headsets, if you've used those?
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Sep 27, 2018 05:56
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Stick100 posted:I think I might have some headroom to increase the render target, I'll investigate that later. I'm using the fix foveated rendering (it's amazing) and 72hz mode. I tried your game out and I like the idea, but the implementation could use some more work. One thing I noticed right away was that you mirrored the environment right down the middle for the field. This wouldn't be an issue, except the "EXIT" and "HAPPY BASEBALL" signs on the left side of the field are all reversed. It doesn't make the best first impression. Starting / restarting a game also seems to reset the orientation, which is unexpected, disorienting and not really needed. There seems to be an issue with the texture filtering on the furthest stadium lights, where they're at JUST the right range to swap between detail levels as you move your head around with a big diagonal line. Since your position and environment are both set in stone, this shouldn't really be happening. You've got a big scoreboard with bulbs and then just overlaid standard text on top of it. It looks unfinished. The pitcher's animation reset seems pretty jarring, he warps a bit to the left before throwing. Again, since he's stationary and predictable it's harder to overlook. Finally, it just feels kind of empty. The flags are static, nobody's in the stadium, and the sky is a void. The looping ambient audio only draws attention to how empty everything is. Either commit to an empty stadium or find some way to fake a crowd. The actual batting game is fun, and I think it's worth it to keep working on it! Sorry if this came off mostly as negative, there's a good core idea here but it definitely needs another pass or two.
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Oct 6, 2018 10:04
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mutata posted:Question in general for the thread: What do you see as the promise of VR and VR experiences? Where do you see that falling short? I'm an environment artist for games, if you could communicate something to VR devs about what VR environments need or should be, what would you say? Coherency and consistency are more important than fidelity (beyond a certain baseline, anyway). You can't cheat some details in VR like you can in normal games, so find a reasonable level of fidelity to hit and stick to it for everything. Also, interaction is great, but make sure it stays consistent with the engine and control scheme you're using. If your throwing physics aren't the best, don't build a puzzle around it (looking at you, Call of the Starseed). The biggest issue I have in a lot of VR games is that they want everything to work "intuitively" but some combination of in-game physics, occasional required button presses and a lack of real-world tactility means that these tasks are often a matter of guessing what the game wants rather than doing what comes naturally. This is usually more true of games that involve interacting with a bunch of objects than ones that are focuses on only a couple object types, and it's especially a problem with game objects that are attached to other game objects or are otherwise limited in their movement in some capacity, because a player's hands will inevitably move in a way the item they're gripping cannot. The player is essentially a ghost, capable of moving through the environment and interacting with it but never physically affected by it. The more you work with this rather than against it, the better things tend to feel.
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Oct 9, 2018 18:57
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Lemming posted:Everything that is abstract that could be concrete is bad (press B to reload, instead of B to release a mag, then you grab a new one from your belt and jam it in to the gun). Maybe this is just me, but honestly I find both of these options unsatisfying for different reasons. Just pressing a button sucks, but grabbing a mag and slamming it into the gun feels hollow, and just emphasizes that I'm miming the actions with empty hands. In general I find making objects interact with each other in my hands is a good way to convince me that I'm not holding them, though I know this differs from person to person. My personal favorite solution to the whole reloading in VR issue is Robo Recall, which is goofy as hell but also feels satisfying and tactile without ever actually making you interact with things in a way that highlights their lack of real physical presence.
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Oct 9, 2018 19:26
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Lemming posted:I don't really agree with this. What's the limit here? When you're holding a gun, it's too light. When you shoot it, there's no recoil. Does this not make it feel "hollow," then? What's your line? Like I said, it's probably just me. Holding an object in my hand feels fine because I've got a controller there already, and haptics kinda make up for lacking recoil, but I find tasks that make you hold two items and combine them together to feel weirdly fiddly and empty because there's no real physical feedback for it and the tasks you're replicating would usually require more hand control than the boxing glove grips that VR gives you, as opposed to holding and firing a gun which is roughly analogous with how VR controllers work right now. Different strokes I guess.
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Oct 9, 2018 23:31
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WMR is a good bet if you're using VR primarily for sims, since the controller tracking issues don't matter there and the extra resolution makes a meaningful difference. If you're getting it for VR games in particular, though, a Rift is still the best option overall. Though between the Rift hardware, Oculus Home and SteamVR always managing to find new and exciting ways to annoy me, I can't wait for the Quest. I'll happily trade a shitload of graphical fidelity to not feel like I'm dealing with 3D acceleration in 1997 sometimes.
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Oct 15, 2018 21:17
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Nalin posted:Once done, congrats, you don't need to use a smartphone anymore. This isn't entirely true, since you'll need a phone if you ever need to do a factory reset or, for some reason, need to re-pair the controller or add a gamepad. And some of the more advanced settings for the device like power management (which was added recently) are only accessible through the app. It's incredibly obnoxious honestly, because the Go should be able to take care of all these things on its own. A phone app should be a convenience, not essential. It's not going to be an issue for the vast majority of their customers since most people have a phone that'll just work with the Oculus app (it ain't exactly a demanding one), but they're still selling it as a completely standalone device and as demonstrated here, for people who don't have easy access to a modern phone it's a tremendous pain in the rear end, and the packaging doesn't really go out of its way to make it known that a modern Android or iOS device is required (the text is there, but it's not exactly up front). Honestly, I really wouldn't recommend the Go to anyone who can't run the app. Its functionality has only expanded since the thing launched, and you're asking for annoyances as soon as anything goes wrong. sethsez fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Oct 17, 2018 |
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Oct 17, 2018 00:39
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Orange Sunshine posted:I tried watching a youtube video which compares 30 FPS 720P video to 60 FPS 720P video. I couldn't see the difference between them, while I clearly can on my computer. This means the Oculus Go isn't actually capable of displaying the video at 60 FPS. That's odd, it's definitely capable of displaying 60FPS Youtube videos normally in my experience.
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Oct 17, 2018 07:12
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Fuzz posted:I'm confused, why get a Go if you have a Rift already? Is it just for the actual "Go" aspect of it, or just being an enthusiast and getting everything, or what? Is there some specific thing the Go does that a regular Rift doesn't, other than the portability? In addition to everything Firgof said (I really can't overemphasize how nice it is to have something that just works wherever I take it with no tether or anything to set up), there's also something to be said for viewing media with a ~1440p RGB-stripe LCD rather than a ~1200p pentile OLED. It's a much sharper screen, and the optics are a significant step up as well. In general, the Go makes a lot more sense when you stop thinking about it as an incredibly limited Rift alternative and think of it more as a portable VR Apple TV.
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Oct 19, 2018 13:44
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It's entirely possible that the product he was developing couldn't be delivered for anything resembling a reasonable cost, so it got scrapped in favor of something that'll actually sell. Oculus has always been about making VR cheap and accessible, the most expensive product they ever launched was the Rift for $600 and that was pretty widely considered a mistake and got knocked down to $400 a year later, which is a price barrier they're probably not eager to cross again.
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Oct 22, 2018 19:47
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Lemming posted:Gen 2 needs rock solid eye tracking combined with foveated rendering, a higher res screen to take advantage of that, and higher FOV would be good. Without those things higher res alone isn't enough because no hardware will be able to drive it enough to take advantage of it. I'm guessing there's all sorts of other stuff that's being worked out (like the varifocal display) but that's pretty clearly $$$ and not in the near future. Sims absolutely need a higher resolution than what we can currently get, it affects playability in a real way, and this also goes for anything that has much reading. The best VR games are the ones that work with our current limitations, but those limitations are absolutely guiding development to some degree. That said... yeah, if the Quest winds up being as comfortable as the Go I'll probably never use my Rift again.
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Oct 22, 2018 20:26
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Lemming posted:My point is that we've already seen an increase in resolution with the Odyssey and Vive Pro, but it hasn't really been a significant step up. I find it hard to believe that something more expensive that isn't a bigger leap really has a place in the market right now. The bigger danger is that people just avoid buying what's available now because it's "old" and they want to wait for the next generation to hit. Sometimes iterating isn't about making a product meaningfully better, but about ensuring that the customer knows they're getting something that isn't going to be massively upstaged in a month or two. And really, the Rift could do just fine with the optics, screens and ergonomics of the Quest added in (and if the Quest can use those parts and come in at under $400, I don't see why a revised Rift couldn't, either). I find the Go a significantly nicer experience than the Rift solely because it actually fits my fat head, glasses included, without issue, and the optics don't glare every which way the second a hint of contrast appears. And a way to streamline the camera setup so it doesn't require multiple USB 3 ports on different controllers wouldn't hurt, either.
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Oct 22, 2018 21:29
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Some people are freaking the gently caress out over this being the end of Oculus in PC VR. I mean, Bethesda cancelled Doom 4 because it was going to suck but that doesn't mean we never got another Doom. It's entirely possible the Rift 2 that existed was just a dead end they couldn't manage to figure out.
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Oct 22, 2018 22:14
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NRVNQSR posted:His point is that they did not deny it. There's a massive difference between what they said - there will be a future PC headset with the Rift name - and what his article claims - that the current PC headset project that Iribe was spearheading, known externally variously as CV2 or Half Dome, has been cancelled. They could both be true. A follow-up to the Rift is going to be released, it just won't be a direct evolution of that particular prototype. This probably all comes down to the use of the term "Rift 2," which has significant connotations that may be leading people to the wrong conclusions.
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Oct 22, 2018 22:50
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Tom Guycot posted:Virtual Virtual Reality is a real stand out and worth it. The less said about it the better. I agree with all of these, and would also add: Thumper, which is virtually identical to every other version and is a very impressive achievement on the Go. Daedalus, sort of a first person puzzle platformer. Drop Dead, the best of the zombie shooters by a pretty fair margin, and a decent enough House of the Dead knockoff. BlazeRush, a really good top-down combat racer Cloudlands: VR Minigolf is basically what it says on the tin, and it has access to a bunch of user-created stages.
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Oct 26, 2018 17:43
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Orange Sunshine posted:It looks like the geniuses who designed the Oculus Go, in their mighty wisdom, decided that you shouldn't be able to type a credit card number into the Oculus go using its own controller, which means I have no way of buying apps from the Oculus store. I could go to any random website in the world and type a credit card number in using the controller, but of course not anything in the Oculus store. Certainly not, that would be crazy. With that said... sethsez posted:I really wouldn't recommend the Go to anyone who can't run the app. Its functionality has only expanded since the thing launched, and you're asking for annoyances as soon as anything goes wrong.
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Oct 30, 2018 08:26
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Orange Sunshine posted:I can't see well enough up close to want to use the internet on a 2 inch screen even back when my phone worked for such things. You might be pleasantly surprised to learn that phones have screens significantly larger than 2 inches this decade. And yeah, honestly a lot of devices now work on the assumption that you have a smartphone. You don't even need to use it as a phone, but a cheap Android device with a relatively recent version of the OS wouldn't be a bad thing to have just for things like this.
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Oct 30, 2018 09:20
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I'm not really sure there could be an affordable competitor to the Pimax without making major compromises, considering the displays and optics that would need to be used. And considering the kind of power needed to run it, I'm not sure affordability is a real concern at that level anyway. Right now PC VR's in a weird place, because we either need foveated rendering or a large increase in GPU power to make significantly higher resolutions possible and neither of those seem to be on their way any time soon, so we're mostly stuck with minor spec bumps and polishing what we have until a breakthrough happens.
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Oct 31, 2018 22:51
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Lemming posted:Yep. That's why you guys should be ALL IN ON THE QUEST TRAIN CHOO CHOO I'm there day one, I already use my Go more than my Rift as it is because it's just so much more comfortable and convenient.
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Oct 31, 2018 23:15
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Ciaphas posted:anyone putting up the $ for marketing to tell everyone that no really this is the one this time we swear? The success or failure of the Quest is going to depend on how much money Oculus puts into selling it. Ads, significant retail space, sponsored videos, events, the whole nine yards. They need to treat this thing like a drat console launch, not like a neat piece of tech. Facebook absolutely has the money to do this, but so far it's not looking too hot. There's time for them to turn things around, but... Neddy Seagoon posted:The ACTUAL problem is that Oculus dropping Rift 2.0 development basically tells everyone they're just not innovating anymore quote:Echo Arena's greatest strength is that it's free, so it's not exactly a unit-mover either (even if it is fun as hell). You need big 10+-hour campaign games to actually move a console. Fortnite VR would sell like crazy.
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Nov 1, 2018 06:17
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