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Inspector Gesicht posted:I thought Epona was too young to ride in Young Link's time or does this take place a year afterwards? The game has some implications that Link is a little older than he was as a kid in OoT, despite using the same model. It's vague about how long afterwards it is, but that's a possibility.
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Jun 4, 2016 20:45
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I love how this game does asset reuse. I played it directly after finishing Ocarina of Time, so the mix of familiar and new assets was kind of mindblowing to me, starting with the first time Link somersaulted while jumping and definitely continuing with the old OoT grass trying to run away. It makes you expect the same, then throws you off. Everything is similar but distinct. It feels very otherworldly, just as it should. I think the shadows may have gotten a bit darker, too.
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Jun 4, 2016 20:56
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I am ready for full childhood ruination.
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Jun 4, 2016 20:57
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Asset-reuse leads to good things like Majora's Mask and New Vegas. Asset-reuse-reuse leads to bad things like Gat out of Hell. Majora does the sequel-baggage thing well. Link loses most of the items he had in Ocarina, but he's much more experienced and confident despite his age, which is why he somersaults everywhere with a smirk. Compare Phantom Hourglass which pisses over all the hard-earned good-will from Wind Waker in the first five five minutes. Zelda gets kidnapped (again), Link loses all his stuff, he forgets how to wield a sword or even how to swim. They follow up the emotional epic of Wind Waker with a poo poo-story, poo poo-villain, poo poo-graphics and poo poo-controls. Inspector Gesicht fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jun 4, 2016 |
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Jun 4, 2016 21:05
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Asset-reuse leads to good things like Majora's Mask and New Vegas. Asset-reuse-reuse leads to bad things like Gat out of Hell. Gat out of Hell was a fun romp, and a lot more enjoyable overall than SR4. Also, Phantom Hourglass doesn't reuse all that much in the way of actual WindWaker assets. A much better example of actual asset reuse would be between Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks, and I'm pretty sure all Zelda game discussion is beholden to the spoiler policy, so I'm going to speak instead about a completely different example of asset Reuse. Crystal Chronicles was very obvious about reusing its assets- models, animations, etc.- from FF9 but did a hell of a lot with changing and revamping what it borrowed to make the game feel noticable different. I think Majora does the same too, which goes well with its "Same but Different" design sensibilities.
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Jun 4, 2016 21:36
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Don't forget the gimmicks. Also gently caress it tell me if these are spoilers: there is a piano version of the Clock Tower theme that is incredibly moving that you should hear for the first time towards the end of the next video. Also you're gonna get mooned.
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Jun 4, 2016 21:37
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This game can get hard in a lot of places so I commend your bravery in doing it blind. Good luck!
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Jun 4, 2016 21:42
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Inspector Gesicht posted:I thought Epona was too young to ride in Young Link's time or does this take place a year afterwards? I think it's supposed to be around 1-2 years later, at least. Link's using the same model as in OoT, but he's noticeably taller (compare child Link w/Hylian Shield in OoT to Link w/Hero's Shield in MM). Epona is also visibly larger than she was in OoT; her back came up to Link's chin in OoT, but in MM her back is level with the top of Link's head. Edit: One of the things MM does way better than OoT is the fairy helper. Navi was pretty much a non-entity in the plot beyond the opening cutscene. She's only there to give a voice to the game's help text. Tatl is actually a character in the story, and has a personality and character growth throughout the game. She and Link also actually interact with eachother occasionally (which lends Link some personality too). I've always loved that. KeiraWalker fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Jun 4, 2016 |
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Jun 4, 2016 21:55
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Artix posted:We're going to finish the Bomber's Notebook and pick up whatever heart pieces we stumble on out in the field. No promises with 100% or anything, because there's 52 goddamn pieces of heart and that's a lot of dumb minigames and poo poo. What about masks? I don't remember if they're all in the Bomber's Notebook. whitehelm fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Jun 4, 2016 |
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Jun 4, 2016 22:04
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Ryushikaze posted:Also, Phantom Hourglass doesn't reuse all that much in the way of actual WindWaker assets. A much better example of actual asset reuse would be between Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks, and I'm pretty sure all Zelda game discussion is beholden to the spoiler policy, so I'm going to speak instead about a completely different example of asset Reuse. By "sequel-baggage" I mean when a player character loses all their levels/items/upgrades between games. Link has this excuse because he's a different character in most titles while I don't know what Samus Aran's problem is, maybe she has gambling debts. Inspector Gesicht fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Jun 4, 2016 |
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Jun 4, 2016 22:10
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Inspector Gesicht posted:
quote:Artix posted: Nice. Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Jun 5, 2016 |
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Jun 4, 2016 22:41
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Okay, once again I want to reiterate: if it has not been seen or mentioned in an update, it is spoilers. This means music, locations, quests, collectibles, items, characters...everything. Its really not that hard, guys. Yes, I have gotten past the first cycle at least but like in OoT there will be a few people watching the thread who are also going in blind and I don't want to ruin things for them because this is a great game that deserves to be experienced on your own terms. The next time I lock this thread, it stays locked until the next update goes up on Tuesday. All I ask is for people to respect that I don't want to talk about things we haven't seen yet. I thought that wasn't much to ask but I forgot for a second that I'm dealing with goons. Feel free to prove me wrong.
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Jun 5, 2016 00:08
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I've actually kinda been looking forward to this LP after the OoT one turned out to be so interesting. I never finished Majora's Mask myself, though, I own both the original N64 version (gold cartridge, hell yeah!) as well as the 3DS remake. While the game is fantastic, and I like the mood of the game a lot I still didn't finish it. Man, I should get to that at some point. But right now I'm busy with different games. Godspeed. May SA finally manage to not have the blind LP thread locked due to spoilers for once... oh. I see. A terrible fate indeed.
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Jun 5, 2016 01:27
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I've been looking forward to this for a while now.  I'm like Artix, this is unashamedly my favorite Zelda game ever, so this is gonna be fun.
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Jun 5, 2016 01:29
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It's up! I'm glad this is finally underway!
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Jun 5, 2016 03:32
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Hopefully someone can have something to say on this before the thread gets locked after someone reveals Ganon's evil(er) twin is pregnant with [s]Tim Curry's[/d] Nigel Thorn-berry's illegitimate love child, but has anyone ever found any nice LoZ themed recipes online? "[a LoZ themed recipe] just seems like a cool idea is all." thechosenone fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Jun 5, 2016 |
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Jun 5, 2016 05:33
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Majora's Mask is still one of my favorite games ever, and the 3ds version basically reaffirmed that when I played it. I just love like, every character so much. I'm really looking forward to seeing your play-through of this. I never played the original fully blind tho, like, I bought a strategy guide and used that to play it 100% on my first go. I don't know if I had the attention span or patience then to find everything on my own.
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Jun 5, 2016 06:17
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I share Artix's enthusiasm for this game, it's pretty amazing. MM has some blatant flaws that likely stemmed from the short development time the team was given but it more than makes up for those flaws in aspects like the unique setting and atmosphere.Alpha3KV posted:The game has some implications that Link is a little older than he was as a kid in OoT, despite using the same model. It's close, but not exactly the same model though. 
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Jun 5, 2016 11:15
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You can really tell the game was handled differently than OOT. Right out the gate you've got much more evocative imagery, darker themes, and even the art direction feels more sinister. Not to say OOT didn't have its share, (Hello castle town as an adult, Kakariko Village's everything) but the opening does a decent job of setting the tone, I think.
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Jun 5, 2016 11:20
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thechosenone posted:Hopefully someone can have something to say on this before the thread gets locked after someone reveals Ganon's evil(er) twin is pregnant with [s]Tim Curry's[/d] Nigel Thorn-berry's illegitimate love child, but has anyone ever found any nice LoZ themed recipes online? I remember in the last thread someone found a rock sirloin recipe since I joked about wanting to try one or something when the OoT Gorons were complaining that they couldn't get any. I still haven't made it yet. 
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Jun 5, 2016 13:16
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Just how powerful was the N64 with the Expansion Pak compared to the PS1? I noticed in Majora over Ocarina that I never lost full-control of the camera.
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Jun 5, 2016 13:27
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Just how powerful was the N64 with the Expansion Pak compared to the PS1? I noticed in Majora over Ocarina that I never lost full-control of the camera. I think the N64 could push more polygons, but its main limitation--once it's got an expansion pack installed--is cartridge space. Even way back then, you could fit a hell of a lot more on two CDs than you could a single cartridge, unless that cartridge was ludicrously expensive. I remember reading, for example, that Rockman & Forte was the largest & most expensive SFC cartridge ever produced--although I can't find the source of that information presently (aside from photos of the cartridge's PCB, which is almost double the size of the board from a MMX1 cartridge). The end result is things like FMV video files and sound bytes being compressed to hell in order to fit them on a single cartridge, which leads to sub-optimal ports (see RE2's N64 port). The other problem is even if the N64 was technically capable of producing more sophisticated graphics than the PSone, its video output hardware is absolute garbage and you'd never be able to tell unless the console's been modified to output to HDMI or something (such modifications do exist and they've been demonstrated to dramatically increase the N64's visual fidelity). You can also compare Mega Man Legends, another game that had both PSone and N64 versions. The N64 version has better looking polygonals and overall looks smoother, but environmental texture detail and sound quality took a huge nose dive. Edit: I feel like I could expound upon the Legends thing a little more. Despite lower texture detail and sound quality, the N64 version has smoother polygons, better draw distance, much better texture mapping, and doesn't suffer from the PSone's lack of a z-buffer (the particular issue which makes 3D models on the PSone clip through themselves and eachother, and causes textures to warp all over the place when moving to/viewed from different angles). This article has more info on that last bit. KeiraWalker fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Jun 5, 2016 |
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Jun 5, 2016 14:31
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KieranWalker posted:The end result is things like FMV video files and sound bytes being compressed to hell in order to fit them on a single cartridge, which leads to sub-optimal ports (see RE2's N64 port). One of the big problems on the N64 was the 4 KB limit on texture size, leading to all kinds of horribly stretched and/or low quality textures.
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Jun 5, 2016 14:45
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Doc Morbid posted:The port of RE2 may have lower-quality FMVs and audio, but the fact it even exists and has all that content in the first place is a minor miracle in itself, as that's a two-CD game crammed onto a single 64 MB cartridge in its entirety. Most N64 ports of PSX games didn't even attempt to do FMV and just replaced the videos with slideshows, so RE2 was pretty special when it came out. Yeah, I was actually just reading a Gamasutra article on that port, which goes into that compression thing in a lot more detail. It's good reading along with the PSone z-buffer thing I added to my previous post.
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Jun 5, 2016 14:49
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The N64 in general was also better at flat out running games. With the expansion pack installed, it had 8 MB of RAM compared to the PS1's 2, a better processor, and a slightly better graphics processor. The PS1 could get away with a lot more because of the disc space (better textures, pre-rendered backgrounds, FMV, music) and a lot of that let it look better than it actually was, but once real gameplay started you were (usually) better off on the N64. There's a reason that until very late in its life-cycle, most of the best looking games used primarily pre-rendered backgrounds and only had the main character and NPCs/important objects actually be rendered (and you could pick them out from a mile away, see Resident Evil as an example).
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Jun 5, 2016 14:53
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Yay yay, it's happening! Didn't expect to get name-dropped like that. Don't worry, Fae! We believe in you. I've played through this game a few times but I don't think I've ever gotten 100%. The closest I came was on the 3DS remake.... which I still haven't finished due to getting distracted. I really should pick it back up and finish it. I was on the last dungeon, for chrissakes. Anyway, I really like this game! I liked it when I first played it, and my opinion of it has improved with time, and watching a couple LPs of it. The LPs especially gave me a greater appreciation for the game and now I think it is definitely better than Ocarina of Time. I will be following this with great interest!
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Jun 5, 2016 14:55
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Artix posted:The N64 in general was also better at flat out running games. With the expansion pack installed, it had 8 MB of RAM compared to the PS1's 2, a better processor, and a slightly better graphics processor. The PS1 could get away with a lot more because of the disc space (better textures, pre-rendered backgrounds, FMV, music) and a lot of that let it look better than it actually was, but once real gameplay started you were (usually) better off on the N64. There's a reason that until very late in its life-cycle, most of the best looking games used primarily pre-rendered backgrounds and only had the main character and NPCs/important objects actually be rendered (and you could pick them out from a mile away, see Resident Evil as an example). Yeah. The PSone was really not a graphical powerhouse by any stretch of the imagination. Where it actually excelled was making huge, impressively animated 2D sprite-based games like Symphony of the Night, but by then Sony wanted everything in 3D, and developers had to threaten Sony with developing software exclusively for Sega to actually get a non-3D game on the Playstation at all. The N64 had its share of flaws, but it was absolutely a more powerful console than the PSone by nearly every metric.
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Jun 5, 2016 14:58
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Makes me sad that I missed out on owning an n64 really, there are a lot of great games for it that I never got to play. Luckily my friends are willing to sit by and watch me catch up :p
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Jun 5, 2016 15:09
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Faerie Fortune posted:Makes me sad that I missed out on owning an n64 really, there are a lot of great games for it that I never got to play. Luckily my friends are willing to sit by and watch me catch up :p I do know a pretty good retro gaming outlet that sells refurbished games and hardware if you're ever in the market, although I don't know if they do shipping to the UK. Also, just for the sake of highlighting the differences between the N64 and the PSone, I wanted to link this comparison video of Mega Man Legends. Especially in the cutscenes, you can see how much smoother the N64 version looks and plays, despite the muddy textures and garbage sound quality.
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Jun 5, 2016 15:14
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So the points against the N64 where the lack of memory, lack of third-party support, awkward controller compared to the ps1 analog, and Nintendo's insistence on family-friendly ratings. I never hear much grief for the Gamecube, how did they shake that up?
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Jun 5, 2016 15:36
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KieranWalker posted:The N64 had its share of flaws, but it was absolutely a more powerful console than the PSone by nearly every metric. Inspector Gesicht posted:So the points against the N64 where the lack of memory, lack of third-party support, awkward controller compared to the ps1 analog, and Nintendo's insistence on family-friendly ratings. My favorite N64 flaw was that it had an extremely small texture buffer, only 8 KB or so IIRC, so if you wanted to have more than a handful of textures and not gouraud shaded polygons you had to stream textures through that tiny buffer on the fly as the scene was rendered. The wizards of this were (surprise surprise) Rare, who somehow managed to stream loads of textures (and in Conker even full speech clips) through the N64's hardware limitations. Unfortunately, they had problems with Donkey Kong 64. The game COULD have shipped and run without the N64 expansion pack, but an incredibly difficult to find memory leak in their code lead to frequent crashes, so they shipped with the expansion pack and forced the game to require it to get around that issue. My second favorite (read: most hated) flaw was how quickly the controller's joystick would wear out and result in a massive dead zone. Growing up, I went through 4 controllers because of how bad it was.
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Jun 5, 2016 15:44
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Inspector Gesicht posted:So the points against the N64 where the lack of memory, lack of third-party support, awkward controller compared to the ps1 analog, and Nintendo's insistence on family-friendly ratings. I never hear much grief for the Gamecube, how did they shake that up? Well for one thing the GameCube had excellent hardware for its time. It was comparable to the Xbox, and way better than ps2. It didn't have any glaring flaws like that crippling texture limitation mentioned above, or the storage limitations of cartridges. Still, I had an N64 and I loved it, while I never got around to getting a GameCube, so 
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Jun 5, 2016 16:04
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Aw yeah, time for The Best Zelda Game! I hope you have fun, because I really love this game. The Happy Mask Salesman being creepy and not having any transition time between his poses is 100% intentional and adds to the surreality of the game. Neurion posted:My second favorite (read: most hated) flaw was how quickly the controller's joystick would wear out and result in a massive dead zone. Growing up, I went through 4 controllers because of how bad it was. I still have a bunch of new sticks lying around in a box. I bought a bunch of them in bulk from a local shop that also dabbled in repairing consoles and replaced them myself whenever the stick wore down too much.
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Jun 5, 2016 16:11
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I think this was the first and only Zelda game I've 100%ed. It was just compelling enough to 100%.
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Jun 5, 2016 16:14
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Heck yeah this is gonna be good 
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Jun 5, 2016 16:49
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Aw hell yes, best Zelda ever. This game is probably the single most atmospheric game I've ever seen. It does more storytelling with scenery and setting alone than most games manage using all their assets.
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Jun 5, 2016 17:26
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Cart size vs CD size and the lack of third party support were both big factors because it basically gave Sony the entire JRPG market. Say what you will about Square Enix's current work, they loving killed it on the Playstation.
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Jun 5, 2016 18:44
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Cathode Raymond posted:Well for one thing the GameCube had excellent hardware for its time. It was comparable to the Xbox, and way better than ps2. It didn't have any glaring flaws like that crippling texture limitation mentioned above, or the storage limitations of cartridges. The gamecube had a better controller, so there's that.
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Jun 5, 2016 18:57
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Jobbo_Fett posted:The gamecube had Ftfy
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Jun 5, 2016 19:22
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The Gamecube controller seems to have extremely polarizing opinions for some reason. Any way it's nice to see MM finally happen. IMO MM has better level design and breadcrumbing than OoT so your two navi's shouldn't have to help much and you said you're fine with time pressure(which are greatly exaggerated imo) so there shouldn't be a lot of meandering/train wreck videos?
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Jun 5, 2016 19:34
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