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If you want battles to last longer, play on slow motion.  Really I don't see improving leadership to be reasonable at all. The point of leadership is that it makes victories significant. If you play well and rout a force, you should be able to kill lots of them with relatively little loss. If everything stands and fights, battles become attritional, and both sides take relatively equal losses. Winning a big battle just therefore lacks impact. Then you add on larger numbers of armies so that you are fighting more battles.... The end effect is to make stuff a pointless slog.
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Jun 16, 2016 11:40
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Third World Reggin posted:And when I say radious added higher leadership and people are not happy about that, I mean a swordsman in the empire went from 60 to 65 while a spearman of the empire went from 60 to 60. You were *just saying* that the Radious morale changes double or treble the length of battles (which implies they do even more than that to the amount of time units spend slugging it out at each other, and hence the amount of damage a winning army takes). Now you're arguing they don't make a difference? That doesn't seem terribly consistent. Fangz fucked around with this message at 12:04 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 12:00
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Gitro posted:In my experience trying to ignore the norscans results in eventually having at least one norscan stack chasing a horde of yours around to the exclusion of all else, which can result in a death spiral where you wind up not being quite strong enough to fight them but because you have to constantly run you're never able to replenish or recruit so you can never get strong enough to fight them etc. Also it's a huge pain in the rear end. Well, this is why I'm thinking to go down the coast instead of going into Nordland etc. Put the Empire between me and them. Doing some sacking of Kislev early does work, FWIW. Maybe not Kislev itself, but lots of the northern settlements are poorly defended, and can be pushed over quickly (especially as Sigvald, since you don't have to siege). Fangz fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Jun 16, 2016 |
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Jun 16, 2016 12:10
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Having the AP anti large is pretty huge when you are fighting a bunch of stuff. VC and their fast monsters especially.
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Jun 16, 2016 13:26
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Decus posted:That's an AI pattern factions spawn in with. There are avoid_player and anti_player behaviour modifiers designed to make certain factions go easy on the player at their starting position and others more likely to war them. If you turn off all of the avoid_player ones by changing their behavior profile to be the same as normal the game becomes harder and I imagine if you changed everything to have anti_player it'd be harder still. Huh, is this randomised, or preset?
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Jun 16, 2016 15:05
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Are you basically playing without pausing at all?
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Jun 16, 2016 16:12
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Can someone confirm to me how lords work for garrisons reinforcing armies in the field? Does the lord in the field act as the overall lord? I'm about to fight Kislev with the autoresolve bar all to the left and I am rather worried about this...
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Jun 16, 2016 18:05
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Deified Data posted:There's a decent, short guide in the OP of this thread if you want to take a look. Starting a second horde ASAP is really important if you want to beeline for the cooler units. Each horde has its own growth/surplus so the more hordes you have the more buildings you get and the more units you can recruit. Don't wait. The only downside is upkeep costs. I'm having some success having one horde run around sacking Kislev (right from the start) while the second goes West.
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Jun 16, 2016 18:37
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Arrgytehpirate posted:Sieges are so fun as VC. Just send Fluffy at the gate and have 4 stacks of Fellbats to wreck dudes on the way, and terrorgist if you have them. A single unit of terrorgist took 1 casualty and had over 300 kills last siege. You mean vargheists, surely. 'A single unit of terrorgheist took one casualty' is rather bad....
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Jun 17, 2016 12:25
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Important tip for Chaos: when you are done with Marauders, DELETE THAT BUILDING from your horde. It'll cut the cost of adding, say, the Chaos Warrior barracks from 4 pop to just 2. Indeed, if you have the money, always delete buildings you don't intend to ever use again. It's only turn 30 or so and I'm teching up to Chosen.
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Jun 17, 2016 12:59
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rockopete posted:You guys weren't kidding about Mannfred and the Varghulf. Kill the enemy lords, their army mashes mine due to numbers, and those two still standing and smashing away until the opposition finally disintegrates. Feels a bit cheap after coming from Empire and Dwarfs. I think it takes a few turns, yeah. Similarly you can exhaust the supply of raisable terrorgheists, say, but after a while there will be new ones.
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Jun 17, 2016 14:45
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Really? Orcs always seem to mop the floor with the poor dwarves across my playthroughs, and I have to mount an expedition to the badlands just to get them to take the pressure off.
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Jun 17, 2016 15:35
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terrorist ambulance posted:Does the "poor against armor " stat actually mean anything? Goblin archers still seem to wreck anything that doesn't have a shield whether it has armor or not, and dire wolf or hound rear charges still do well against even heavily armored troops. The text are just suggestions/hints on how to use the units. Poor against armour = low AP damage. Goblin archers do 10 dam (1 ap). That means vs anything with more than 20 armour they are just doing the base 1 dam per hit. Fangz fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Jun 17, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2016 16:46
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From that one Reddit thread, armour blocks between 50 and 100% its full value worth of non-AP damage per hit. I don't know how to explain goblin archers hammering a greatsword unit. Either there's a different mechanic for ranged damage, or maybe fatigue/morale is doing something? Edit: oh looks like that article has gone back on that.... Fangz fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Jun 17, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2016 17:03
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Rakthar posted:Then you are most. def waiting, sorry for your loss. The main chaos attack is at turn 100. What you call bad pacing is actually perfect pacing, with the idea being that new units become gradually available over the course of the game so that every twenty or thirty turns the player needs to make a decision about how/whether to integrate that new unit into his armies. If you got all your units at turn 20 you'd just be having the same finalised army composition for 90% of your campaign instead of the final 30%, and the result is that players will burn out fast. The cool units are cool *because* they are hard to get. Remember how in base Shogun 2 musketeers and mounted ranged were endgame units? Here mounted range is first tier and handgunners are barely mid tier! So suddenly these cool units you had to beg and scrape to get aren't cool any more. The fact that you're thinking 'oh man, it'll rock when I finally get my steam tanks' is the design working. Go get a mod if you don't like it. quote:Why does CA really love crappy events and bonuses so much more than neutral or good ones? Is this some dour English thing? The gods are always angry, there's some lovely migration. Is there a single like, straight buff event? Whuh? Those are positive events. Gods are angry is a growth buff. Great migration is a pretty significant cut to recruitment costs. (Yeah okay you pay about 20 public order in each city for these, but that's hardly a significant cost because you usually run a slight surplus in public order per turn, and there's no benefit to maxing it out.) The only truly negative events I can think of is the piracy one and the negative growth one, and they are pretty minor. There's also some entirely positive ones like the one that gives +2 recruitment experience for a few turns, or the one that lets you pick between a leadership buff and cheap recruitment, or the Say No to Strangers one that removes some corruption from every province. Fangz fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Jun 17, 2016 |
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Jun 17, 2016 19:11
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Rakthar posted:It's loving perfect the way it is, this CA masterpiece that took years to make Was it you that said you upgrade all your settlements to level 3, and only build one growth building per province even in Altdorf? Because I think I can see why your development is so slow. quote:Hey bro if you think that events that take 1500 and provide a bonus you don't need are a positive event, I don't think we're going to agree on the rest. There's this cool event where you can pay 1500 to improve the omens or not improve the omens. It's your choice, totally neutral event. Oh wait you didn't improve the omens, haha image of angry god for 5 turns, lmao. Which event is that? Under the dark moon's glare is indeed pay for leadership buff/or risk chance of bad thing (usually temporary public order loss, no big deal). Angry gods is pay to placate gods and get a buff, or say No and get a public order debuff/growth buff.
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Jun 17, 2016 20:10
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If you are really having trouble getting settlements to level 5, you could also capture or confederate an AI settlement that has this built up already. I doubt whatever difficulty debuff is slowing you down applies to the AI.
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Jun 17, 2016 20:29
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Have you tried Ambush stance.
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Jun 17, 2016 20:52
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Has anyone done an unit breakdown of the Chaos warriors, yet? I'm doing okay with marauders, chosen, forsaken and a bit of chaos spawn, but now I need to figure out what next to build. I can either go straight for giants, dragon ogres to unlock kholek, try out chaos knights, or go for hellcannons and pick up chariots along the way. Thoughts?
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Jun 18, 2016 14:46
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Yeah, my starting Hellcannon from Sigvald is pretty awesome. I wanna get more of them so my other armies can have that goodness, and also so they can hit walled towns in one turn so I can get a multi front offensive going.
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Jun 18, 2016 16:16
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ssmagus posted:How do you manual fire anyway? Push Insert.
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Jun 18, 2016 16:17
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Sieges are pretty satisfying as Chaos if you have a hellcannon to manually target. Empire is dead now, only Bretonnia is left. It's turn 50. Sallying out of Norseland into the heart of the Empire really works, though it's risky as hell.
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Jun 18, 2016 22:52
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Completed Hard mode Chaos long campaign, turn 85. Some thoughts: Okay, agent spam is pretty bad as Chaos. With other factions it's manageable, but as Chaos, the combination of being at war with everyone, and not having a dedicated assassin makes for a veritable herd of Captains etc assaulting your armies every single turn. The mod to turn off hostile agent actions is unfortunately pretty necessary if you want to play aggressively anyway. It's really not worth it to baby the norscans. I ultimately subjugated two tribes, bearsonlings and sarl in the West. Both were destroyed - both by the northern dwarves because I war-coordinated them to get them to help with Kislev. And you know what? This was not an issue at all. Indeed I'd say that the main thing with Sarl was that they annoyingly slowed down Varg's conquest of the North, (Varg won despite me sacking their cities and bribing Skraelings, go figure) after which the Varg helpfully took out Kislev and Ostermark and Ostland for me. Basically, view your allies/vassals as temporary replenishment pitstops, don't give a poo poo about their welfare. Hit the Empire early. It really does help. If the Empire is weak and other factions are strong, they can't confederate their way out of the problem. I had the good fortune to hit them just after confederating Stirland - the result: nobody particularly liked them and wouldn't help out when I burned down Altdorf, other than Middenheim which I had already hosed up. Fighting the Empire is easier, more fun, and more lucrative than fighting norscans. Keep moving. You can build up really fast as Chaos, but you are always on the verge of bankruptcy. Two stacks hanging around just out of attrition distance is a pretty strong force. You can do a leapfrog manoeuvre where you have the armies come together to attack a city, you sack and have the lead army continue moving just out of attrition range then encamp, while the second army encamps within the ZOC of the city so that they can raze it the next turn and move away using march stance. If your armies are depleted and you see something scary, you should move your armies next to each other and encamp to recruit more guys - the attrition isn't that bad. Don't worry too much about razed towns being resettled, unless Empire is doing the resettling. The biggest boon of the Chaos is that so much of their stuff takes only one turn, so you can recruit on the move. This does make me question whether some of the higher tier two turn units are worth it. A single turn of delay is costing me something like 6000 favour! When I could just flood my army with chosen and chaos spawn, it does make me wonder why I want knights. Good units: Dogs and marauder horsemen are both pretty great light cavalry. Yes, they will never fight anything 'real' in a fair fight, but so what? Use them to chase off their light cavalry, kill their artillery/archers, cycle charge enemies in the back, and most importantly utterly slaughter their fleeing units when you win a fight. Always have 3-6 of them in an army. If you push your light cavalry in from the flanks as your infantry come in, enemy archers will turn to face them, and the AI might even peel infantry away from the main body. This can be a big advantage. The forsaken/chaos spawn chain is pretty great. Forsaken are very strong damage dealer infantry that will happily eat swordsmen for lunch. They have the additional benefit of being somewhat faster than almost all infantry, so they can chase stuff down after a fight. Chaos spawn are basically unbreakable trolls. Both train in one turn so you can replace them freely. Oh, also that building chain lets you build sorcerers, giving you access to death magic and letting you block units? Hellcannons are lovely, as people have said. Great weapon variants of infantry are the way to go, IMHO. Yes you take more losses, especially from archers, but because you don't have archers of your own you should have a sizeable light cavalry advantage. Use that to eliminate their ranged units. (Note: doesn't work vs dwarves) If you take casualties just recruit new units. Have your heros do something every turn, spec your exalted heroes for exemplar/inspirational. With that and some recruitment skills on my Lord, I was making GBS threads out 6 rank 9 chosen each turn, and it only cost me 600 favour each! Fangz fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Jun 19, 2016 |
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Jun 19, 2016 05:04
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The Lone Badger posted:Is there any way to ask a faction to stop being at war with a third faction? I only seem to be able to ask them to break treaties, not sign treaties. The only way I can think of is to vassalise them, sorry.
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Jun 19, 2016 12:57
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KM Scorchio posted:So I've just started my first orc campaign and it's all cool except my waaaghs keep randomly dissipating even when they have plenty of fightiness and I don't get why. For example I'd just used one to occupy some smaller settlement, checked it and it had like 99 point on the bar. Clicked end turn then got a pop up saying the Waaagh was finished. Is there some mechanic I'm missing or is it a bug? Seen it happen a few times now. Did the original army fall below 17 (I think that's the right number) units?
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Jun 19, 2016 13:45
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Yeah replenishing lords and heroes is hard as Chaos, but I was pretty much crushing battles with my 16 units of Chosen anyway. It wasn't that big an issue. I rolled with the sorcerer lords generally, so their low hp didn't matter, though it did mean Sigvald took more of a back seat after Kislev. (Hilariously my late game was entirely Sigvald off on his own trying to complete his insanely hard quests, while my two sorcerers actually went off to win the game... Rather fitting I guess.) One thing that might help people that I found out late is that you can ally with the vampire counts or the orcs, and they will give you speedy replenishment on their soil. (Even with vampiric attrition. Encamp to avoid that.) The vampires will resettle or occupy imperial towns, which saves you the worry of Empire re-emerging. Empire minors that are hostile to Karl Franz will also do that but they will never ally with you. Otherwise, yeah, get out of Norsca the moment you stop having fun there. Don't try to build the unified crazy viking superstate. Chaos doesn't have to be a slog if you just focus on your objectives. Edit: A thought on replenishing lords: if you replace the Lord on an army, does this mean they return to the roster and get healed up? That might be worth trying. Fangz fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Jun 19, 2016 |
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Jun 19, 2016 14:55
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Okay, just checked. Lords sent to the roster using the replace Lord function heal to full, but it takes five turns before they can be used again. This can be much better than sitting and waiting for replenishment though.
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Jun 19, 2016 15:54
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Seems like it can be quite efficient to have a b-team Lord to swap in for Kholek and the others when they get hurt - you can also use this to train up a guy to have the horde growth skills the moment you create a horde, thus speeding up your development. Dang, wish I thought of this earlier. This might work for other factions as well.
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Jun 19, 2016 16:00
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SickZip posted:Hordes need a general massive change in the way they work. As is, it's just harder and more limiting then playing settled. Hordes are strategically nonviable. The AI is only kept afloat by free stacks and the player by broken tactical aspects they can exploit. Those sure are a lot of pronouncements.
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Jun 19, 2016 17:23
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Just ran the start of my Hard mode Chaos campaign again. Not attacking Baersonling's Camp seems like a very viable strategy. If you instead go through Kislev, attacking Volksgrad, Praag, then NW towards Fort Ostrosk, you can easily make friends with the Varg. All of those fights are pretty easy also. Sigvald seems like the best start - the hellcannon speeds up the whole process, and the +leadership vs humans is great. It's also worth looking through the Diplomacy scroll and noting which Empire minors have Imperial Distrust. Don't attack those - they won't join in war against you and won't confederate with the Empire. Instead they'll resettle all the imperial towns and stop Karl Franz from rebuilding. Similarly, it's probably a good idea to take out 'Underdog' factions early. Fangz fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Jun 19, 2016 |
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Jun 19, 2016 18:01
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ZearothK posted:I like that this rule means that if the final round is balanced then both players will have to use all five factions. Yeah, this actually adds a bit of fun to the game if the factions are imbalanced.
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Jun 19, 2016 18:12
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Shumagorath posted:The only thing about letting VCs get big as Chaos is that it makes moving through their turf really suck. I suppose the better strategy is to march through and encamp at the end while still on friendly land to reverse the attrition, because encamp-move is really tedious and you're still paying upkeep. Yeah, that works. You regain about 4 turns of attrition in one turn encamped. Just eat the attrition, unless you expect a fight immediately.
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Jun 19, 2016 18:52
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Kinda what I would suggest is to make for interesting skills is to add some trade-off skills. Like, big increase in weapon damage in return for a big decrease in defensive ability, or vice versa.
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Jun 19, 2016 19:31
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Deified Data posted:So as VC what do you guys do after taking out Templehof and Schwartzwafen? I feel like I'm in a delicate diplomatic situation and I want to piss off as few people as possible. I typically go fight some orcs at this point, building the corruption spreading building in Templehof to soften up my neighbours in the meantime.
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Jun 19, 2016 20:26
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You might want to look into the diplomatic screen before figuring out who to gently caress up. AI factions have random personalities/relationships so some are better to attack than others. For me hitting Ostermark was the right thing to do.
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Jun 19, 2016 20:29
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Deified Data posted:Okay, so that leads into my second question - if I want my neighbors to have rebellions I just raid in their land to spread corruption, then? Does corruption spread from proximity to my settlements? I wouldn't really raid, it does piss people off. If you could train wright kings you can deploy those instead. Corruption does spread by proximity but it spreads much better if you build the balefire chain of buildings. An uncorrupted province will not rebel every turn, don't be ridiculous.
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Jun 19, 2016 20:42
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Rakthar posted:A newly conquered, uncorrupted province will generate over -20 happiness a turn. The VH public order penalty is -8, lack of corruption is -13 iirc, taking over a settlement is-8, tax is 4, rebels clear 20, are you telling me that won't trigger a rebellion? Because it does. Oh sure, if you immediately remove the army that just took the province, don't build any buildings, have an army that somehow doesn't add corruption, continue to tax the province... It will rebel every turn != you can make it rebel every turn, which seems to be what you are actually talking about. Ilustforponydeath posted:Only so much that managing a dedicated raid group parked way out east sounds "desperately unfun and not at all the way I like to play this game", but ymmv Worth pointing out also it's far more profitable and fun to find new undamaged settlements to sack than repeatedly raid the same one. Paying 2000/turn (which you won't make, because sacking income quickly drops off) won't pay upkeep on that army. Fangz fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Jun 19, 2016 |
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Jun 19, 2016 20:51
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Rakthar posted:Yes, if you want it to rebel it can. If you move the army out of the province to go conquer something else, it will also rebel. Most of the cities I get are at level 1. Level 1 buildings can't build public order, only growth. So, I can have my army sit there 5-6 turns and babysit the province. Or I can have a 10 stack of skeletons with two agents just chain rip the rebels while taxing it, making money, and getting a level a turn. If it's a lovely level 1 settlement, you should just raze it and resettle.
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Jun 19, 2016 20:56
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Hencoe posted:So I just finished my long campaign as chaos and I'm wondering, is it actually possible to turn around and murder the rest of the old world? Or will factions reappear because magic. It is possible, it's just probably very boring.
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Jun 19, 2016 22:30
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The second tier LLs generally aren't too bad as a starting pick because you can get the faction leaders as well fairly quickly. If you start with Karl Franz though, Gelt is pretty disappointing when you finally unlock him. You really have to slowly build him up until he gets Final Transmutation. This magic mod sounds fun but I'm worried about how ruinously painful it'd make fighting the AI, if they have these powers as well. Fangz fucked around with this message at 12:05 on Jun 20, 2016 |
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Jun 20, 2016 12:02
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