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WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


terrorist ambulance posted:

What do you have to do to win heroic victories? I just won a fight as Mannfred against 3 full stacks of kislev troops. There was no visible yellow on the autoresolve bar. I cut off the reinforcing troops, killed them, rested, and then killed the main army. I lost ~500 troops, kislev lost ~2200. Each unit of wolves had like 300+ kills from eating runners. It was still a "decisive victory"

Then I win some base defence with a lovely garrison and whoops, heroic victory

I have a feeling it's some sort of weird army value based thing because I've won heroic victories on autoresolve which would imply that it's not autoresolve bar based.

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WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Is there a way to march faster in the mountains or tundra? Warring against the Dwarves as VC and it's obnoxious how slow my armies move through the mountains while they can tunnel through my troops to attack my home provinces.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Yvonmukluk posted:

Where's the button that lets you gift units to a spectator?

It's a small button by the unit portrait.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Vargs posted:

I dunno man. Taking a very low dps unit with terrible charge bonus and that's pretty bad in combat to be your flanker just because it has terror does not seem ideal. They're still moderately pricey too. I'm sure you can make it work, but I think you'd be better off with cav or some crypt horrors. Maybe a varghulf or a terrorgheist which also inflict terror. They may have issues in a straight up fight against anti-large, but wraiths have issues in a straight up fight against almost everything and get unbelievably owned by non-physical damage.

The thing with vargulf and to a lesser extent the terrorgheist is that they straight beat things with anti-large that they should lose to because cycle charging is amazing combined with free regen. The ai loves to spam slayers as the dwarves but my large monsters only army can still win without casualties easily because they couldn't close and force my units to stick in melee. When you bring those two units to compare to wraiths, it's just not really fair.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Wafflecopper posted:

It's not fair to compare one unit to others that fill a similar role because the others are better at it?

I don't think it's fair to compare anything to things as broken awesome as varghulf/terrogeist.

I don't think it's fair that any unit gets to do this to its counter (varghulf started with 0 exp, never fought with the lord):

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Dandywalken posted:

This is definitely a bit much. Wonder how big a factor regeneration is in those results.

Whole fight took around 20 minutes game time so it saved the varghulf a ton of health. The biggest factor was the enemy lord was using foe seeker and the aoe buff on the slayers. Each time you try to cycle charge them with the buff on the varghulf eats around 200 return damage.

Wafflecopper posted:

But ultimately, broken or not, you have a choice (assuming you have sufficient money) of which unit to use to fill the linebreaking flanker role in your army. In order to choose you have to compare the units which might fill that role. Fair has nothing to do with it unless you're playing some kind of self-imposed challenge rules.

Given a choice you would never use anything non varghulf or terrorgeist in your vampire count army. There's no reason to bring anything else because vamps have no ability to bring balanced armies. But given the tech constraints, I don't think it's really fair to compare them the same reason you can't empire knights to demigryph knights on a pure cost basis either.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Lightning strike is way less good than I thought it was. It seems like there's a hard cap on the number of units on the map at the same time, so anything above that is effectively wasted because the reinforcements trickle in one unit at a time when the previous one routs or is killed off.

Once you have a full stack that can take out 2 full stacks, any more numbers the enemy has are just free kills.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Is there anything interesting you can do tactically with garrison troops on the open field? It seems like they kinda suck and can't really deal any lasting damage no matter what you do due to piss poor leadership. I keep looking but it seems like there's no reason not to autoresolve those fights.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


natetimm posted:

Whats the best VC counter for poo poo like giants and Dragon Ogres?

Spirit leech snipe.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


How does the gift bonus work in diplomacy? It seems like a small gift gives +10 initially and drops off over time. Does that mean the only way to get rid of the massive -40 malus for being a great power is to save up a mountain of cash and give large gifts? My empire games always devolve into endless war where I can't even consolidate my conquests.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Fangz posted:

Try and make friends before being a great power. Alliances and fighting the right people count for a lot.

So what do people do? Just sit around on 2 provinces or something and make friends?

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Fangz posted:

I don't really understand why public order is such a problem for you guys. All the factors are almost 100% predictable, and you will usually build up a buffer of public order so it takes oddles of time before you need to act, and you can always do tax exemptions/move armies or agents around to deal with the issue. In terms of the confederation penalty, just don't confederate if any of your provinces is below -60 public order, or if you have a same-race faction at 50 or less relationship that you don't wanna fight.

There is a massive difficulty penalty to public order on higher difficulties. On top of that, it seems like every lord will eventually get Harsh (-1 global public order) on top of that, it's very easy where you can't go public order neutral until 2 public order buildings are done or one public order building with no tax. Then if you can't complete a province to use the +4 public order order, that's even worse.This puts you in an uncomfortable position where you need a big army to maintain order. If the chaos invasion happens or if some rear end in a top hat on the border declares war, guess what, your armies have to move and your provinces are at -8 or -10 very quickly.

This happened in my recent Empire game where my armies were too busy to go stomp the greenskins so I never got ghal maraz and a lot of new provinces could not get public order stabilized.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Ammanas posted:

If you haven't secured a province you haven't declared war on enough people :)

Joint wars happen and trade partners are often worth more than completed province.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Kitchner posted:

So I need some advice.

I've been playing on Very Hard as the Empire, and this is generally whats been going down:

1) Kill secessionists

2) Take Nuln and it's towns

3) take some middle stuff, leave northern guys as meat shield against vikings

4) Kill Archaeon the Ever Failure and his hoardes

5) Sort of kill VC

6) Get hosed by Viking Armageddon, Tilea, and every other fucker who is still lwft standing attacking me at once


The battles aren't beating me, I'm just getting outnumbered and attacked on all sides after Chaos dies, are there some tips and tricks that you need to do on Very Hard that you didn't need to do on Normal?

If you're in the late late game post chaos you should have an unstoppable doom stack of demigryphs and steam tanks that no AI army will be able to beat because they insist on building lower level units that don't accomplish anything. Just go start sacking the poo poo out of everything without taking losses and drain their treasuries dry. As long as you win battles you'll win the battle of attrition.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Archonex posted:

I get that formations are a big part of their use, but I guess my question is --- Why take steam tanks over artillery?

Steam tanks are incredibly self sufficient. Normal artillery is great if protected but kinda suck if out of position or if the enemy harasses them with fliers or cavalry. Steam tanks don't have that problem. They can drive anywhere on the battlefield with impunity to dish out damage.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


The Lone Badger posted:

How do you get there from Drakenhof without going through most of the Empire? Or do you abandon your starting province?

You can go through Stirland and Averheim to get to the Border Princes?

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Tilea is way in the South with Estalia, so I assumed you were conquering your way through not Spain.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Onmi posted:

2 Soldiers, 2 Spearmen with Shield and 2 Crossbowmen

Vs

4 Soldiers, 1 Spearmen with Shields, 1 Spearmen without shields 1 Lord.

Is this even possible? I've tried my defensive line, but I keep getting overwhelmed.

Assuming you're the garrison without the lord, yeah, I think you're pretty hosed if the Lord is even moderately leveled.

Best thing you can do is probably get your crossbows free and focus fire down a flank hoping to break the enemy units, but I'm pretty sure your melee won't last long enough, and you still need enough ammo to kite the lord to death.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


How are people building up their cities for Empire? It seems really hard to get all the good recruitment chains built up in your regions. Tons of cross chain requirements and capital only buildings. I never unlocked Reiksguard in a single province and didn't get steam tanks until halfway through the chaos invasion. It was basically spamming honest steel line infantry and felt very unsatisfying compared to playing Vampire Counts or Dwarves.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


John Charity Spring posted:

I've done an Empire campaign three times because they're easily my favourite. Every time, I've built Reikland pretty much the same way.

Altdorf:
Colleges of Magic
Engineer's Workshop
Armoury
Port
Clay chain (I like trade!)

Put the barracks in one of the minor settlements, and you can put a Reiksfort in a minor settlement too. This lets you train every troop type except the cavalry line in Reikland; if you go for a stable instead of the clay building in Altdorf, you can get all that in Reikland too.

The reason I've tended not to put stables in Reikland is that if you take Middenland, that province is ideal for cavalry training. Put stables in Middenheim, the Knights of the Panther chapterhouse in Carroburg, and a Reiksfort in the other settlement whose name I forget. Lots of high-rank cavalry of all kinds of train there, then. If you don't take Middenland early-ish, then you can still build up your new province (as long as it's not Marienburg) to be a cavalry production area. Nuln gives factionwide artillery bonuses but none for that specific province, so you have no reason to put your gunsmith/engineer's workshop in that city rather than Altdorf. The province Nuln is in - Wissenland - also has bonuses to swordsmen and greatswords so you can get some value out of having an armoury there for infantry, too, not just for cavalry. You won't get Middenland's experience bonuses but you can still train your demigryphs there.

If you do this you can get Steam Tanks by around turn 80-90, I think. And you can get Reiksguard to augment your foot troops and artillery pretty quickly.

I never felt like I had the leeway to build for recruitment only the way you suggest - I feel like I needed tap house and a shrine every province or my army just get tied up managing rebellions all the goddamn time. Then I need some weaving houses to actually make income.

My minors always look like: Garrison, Weaving House, Tap Room/Trade/Farm

How did you find holding Middleheim during the chaos invasion? I focused on taking the Bretonnian provinces so I could have a stable income base that was safe from Chaos. I feel like it's much easier defending the River Reik than anything to the north.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Fangz posted:

You'll (at least on Hard) never need a taproom *and* a shrine every province. You also really don't need a Garrison every minor settlement.



That's what a typical province looked like for me on Very Hard when Chaos hit. Public Order could've been neutral if I go beat up some Orcs I guess, but it's easier to make a Shrine.

I think Garrisons are worth it, having to rebuild a sacked/razed province is a massive money pit that is easily prevented. There are just not enough natural chokepoints and enemies love just running past you.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Fangz posted:

Is that a typical province? That's a really weird build.

Upgrade that income building, tear down that useless lvl 1 garrison for a province far away from anywhere hostile, and build a taproom. A taproom would give you +4 public order for a mere 1500 cash, while a shrine would cost you 4000 and take much longer to take effect on public order. Unless you're planning on waiting 11 turns and shelling out on a lvl 4 settlement, you'll have to tear something down for that Shrine anyway.

I think you're overafraid of sacking. Yeah, it costs stuff, but what are the chance of any given settlement being razed? A fully upgraded garrison is 6500 money. Supposing that sacking causes somehow 10000 money worth of damage (in my experience, a way overestimate), then you are assuming that every single settlement has a 65% chance of being sacked if you didn't garrison up. That just doesn't sound realistic at all. At the very least it's a way lower priority than getting those drat income buildings up.

Also, yeah, Reikland has an inherent decrease to corruption. Really has no need for a Shrine.

I am rebuilding the minor because I didn't build a garrison there originally and it got razed by the Varg who sneaked in through Marienburg. A single razed settlement easily costs over 10,000 worth of damage. Building a minor from lvl 0 to lvl 3 alone costs that much and that's not including lost growth, income, and the cost of other buildings. Building chains in this game cost a ton if you don't stack discounts.

The wall on the capital was a leftover from when I originally took it from the AI, I eventually tore it down to build a shrine when I had the income.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


The Lone Badger posted:

IMO...

Get the level 2 barracks for Crossbows ASAP. Swordsmen+crossbows will carry you a long way (with Honest Steel).
Getting a gunsmithy for mortars is good, but unless you plan to go all the way to level5 it's better to put it in a minor settlement.
Level 3 stables + smithy will let you get Empire Knights, which will be the hammer you've been needing to combine with your infantry. Put both these buildings in the province capital because...
Level 4 stables+smithy gets you Demigryph Knights, which kill everything.

Agreed. The only difference is that you might want to wait to upgrade the barracks till you get one from the minor (Heimgard?). The trade off is ~5 turns of research for 3500 gold.

Crossbows and mortars are the two things you want early. Crossbows to break flanks and kill outriders and mortars so you can instant siege down province capitals. You can sometimes capture free mortars from rebels, which is really nice.

Upgrade Honest Steel and Pistolkorps and your basic starting units will work all the way to end game.

Make sure you do the quest mission you get early on, it's an easy fight and you get a free wizard who will save you a lot of money if you manage him well.

The magic college kinda blows because Gelt and Wizards aren't that great, but I did it for the achievement. I imagine if you were playing optimally you would want the Shrine every time.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


frajaq posted:

Thanks, this will help a lot in my campaign

Be aware that the guide is extremely misleading.

Hero skills only give +% local region, not +% local province.

So at maxed out tier 3, that works out to (1000 gold mine + 500 settlement + 150 gallows * .15) or 247.5 gold (dark magic whatever) per hero. That's a neat profit but nothing massive or game breaking. Your starting banshee in particular has way better things to do than sit at home and amping your income slightly.

You'll only really rake in the dough when you have the tier 5s up (500 each) and you start lucking out with heroes that have the +5% income from all provinces trait.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


More like near unlimited healing is powerful - the zombies just buy time.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


Megasabin posted:

It seems like I have a lot of money at the start. So are you guys having a full second army stack before you even kill the secessionists?

That's too early, start your second stack when you're ready to go to war with your neighbors. Your starting money is quite a lot but it will evaporate when you start building things.

WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


So has it been established if Chaos can draw power from things that are purely in the warp themselves?

If Chaos drags everything into the Eye of Terror, will they become a sustaining shitstorm forever or will they die out eventually because there's no non warp demons giving them power?

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WarpedLichen
Aug 14, 2008


BadOptics posted:

In an attempt to pull this nose-diving 747 up, what does everyone do to counter air cav (i.e Empire/Brettonia)? Dwarfs/Empire I guess I would just bring their ranged infantry (or other air cav for Emps), but if I'm using beastmen/Chaos/VC what are the kind of units I need to bring? I'm guessing maybe Centaurs for beasties and the various knights for VC/Chaos?

I find that countering flying cav is basically an army positioning thing rather than a unit thing. If you don't leave units on the flank where fliers can get local superiority, it neuters their effectiveness heavily. One bad engagement where the fliers get stuck in longer than they want can cripple them easily. VC in particular can probably just spawn some zombies on the exit path to prevent them from taking flight again.

King Louen is a total shitwrecker though.

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