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Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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DiHK posted:

I haven't tried living trolls yet so this isn't first hand... But: because they regenerate wouldn't low morale be a feature? They run, regroup, regenerate, and come back?

Or is their morale so bad that it never recovers?

Or maybe greenskin armies don't last long enough for that to matter?

I'm betting it's the last one.

It's basically cycle charging, except the cycles are dictated by your unit breaking / rallying rather than when you actually need it to be somewhere.


Kimsemus posted:

Checkerboard with rifles -- your units are thick enough to brace most charges so spears can do work, and rifles pretty much melt their knights.

I'd be pretty dubious about checkerboarding with the Empire. Dwarven melee units are tough enough to bear the burden and their ranged units won't melt if some enemies slip through the gaps, but Empire infantry is of generally lower quality and their Handgunners will just die if you let cavalry hit them.

Voyager I fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Jun 8, 2016

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Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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Spirit Leech is the uncontested king of hero sniping and Fate of Bjuna slightly further down the tree loving murders elite units. Lore of Death is insanely good, especially stapled onto units that are already capable melee combatants in the first place.

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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Yukitsu posted:

^ It's not really a problem in campaign since the AI is less of a dick about flying casters that kill your general by flying in and out with their kill general spell, it's more a multiplayer issue.


I was afraid of that. Been noticing the Brettonian and Dwarven lack of "use ability on general" ability to kill it really fast really hampers their rosters, but at least Brettonians can pick apart a flyer general if your opponent takes one.

From what I gather multiplayer balance is basically a shitheap of a few wildly overpowered standouts dominating everything else, resulting in the meta of Death Lore & Demigryphs.

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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"Actually, no, I think Grimgor and friends want to hang out right in front of my gunline for a bit, then get charged."

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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Keep in mind that Manfred and the other Vampire Lords are insane by design. One of the defining strengths of the VC is that their characters are incredibly powerful. The general rebalance should make it such that Lore of Death is no longer head-and-shoulders the most powerful school of magic that can click delete on your general and best units, but even when that gets fixed the fact that Manny is a two-school Wizard who can kick rear end in melee and ride a dragon is entirely deliberate

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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madmac posted:

If they ever get around to releasing Wood Elves and/or Beastmen it could go a long way towards making Brettonia more interesting to play. They did say they were releasing the FLC race towards the end of the year, so it's not impossible that there will be one or more paid DLC factions added before Brettonia.

It's probably going to be this. The Brettonians have neighbors; they just haven't been implemented into the game yet.

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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Can't wait for the angry shitpost about Skaven breaking an NAP.

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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That sounds cute but I don't really feel compelled to go back to having a dozen functional reskins of the same unit.

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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Arcturas posted:

What's the best way to deal with light cavalry spam? In my empire campaign (now finished, thank god) the northern raiders constantly sent stacks with six plus units of throwing axe cavalry at me, and it is such a pain. I can't sent knights to charge them because they run away and have a second unit shoot my knights in the back. I can't ignore them or they chew up my artillery.

I eventually dealt by just sticking sacrificial spearman with shields on the back and flank of my army and ignoring their horrible casualties while crushing the line and then slowly chasing the cavalry until they gave up, but there has to be a better way. Pistoliers, but better used?

Even later on I just remembered to bring gunners or crossbows who dealt well with light missile cavalry, but that was usually easier because by that point there were only one or two units in each stack. (And I could justify camping the cavalry by my back line to deal with chaos Knights or whatever strong cavalry they tried to flank with)

Bring a few units of crossbows and set them up on the flanks of your army, screened by spearmen. They will loving own any light missile cav attempting shenanigans by your flanks.

Horseman spam is only troublesome for the factions who don't have easy access to good ranged troops.

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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wiegieman posted:

You're doing God's work Mazz, that watchtower mod looks great. I just want to keep the drat things from popping back up after I burn them.


Yeah, autoresolve really favors large numbers of heavy infantry. It underpowers every large monster, especially Fluffy who can solo early game armies alongside Manfred. Apparently CA think that the proper way to use a 1 model monster is as ablative armor for your infantry, when players know better.

This also makes the Vampire Counts prone to suicide against the player because they will roll in with giant stacks of pure chaff that look great in autoresolve and die uselessly to any real army when the battle is played out.

Also please stop checkerboarding pure melee lines. I was wrong about the Dwarves but that's specifically because Thunderer-heavy formations rely on powerful direct fire ranged units to do the bulk of their killing and it's worth compromising their melee line to provide them with avenues of fire. If you just want your trash melee units to screen for your real melee units just run a regular double line.

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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Aha holy poo poo Rakthar is now bitching about the AI flanking with cavalry. It just gets better every day.

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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Your deployment is probably going to change every battle based on the exact composition of your army (including the condition of various units if any have taken serious losses in recent fighting), your opponent and their composition, whether you are attacking or defending, and the layout of the terrain you are fighting on.

Also turn off/on your autocorrect.

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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Olive Branch posted:

How do shields work, exactly? I understand the concept that it totally negates 30-50% of incoming small arms fire (arrows and bullets?), but is that percentage a guarantee of blocked damage, or does each projectile roll a hidden dice to check if it is blocked or hits past the shield?

Also, could I screen an unshielded unit with a shielded one standing on the same space, so that an arrow that targets my fragile unit could be blocked, Roman tortoise-like, by a fellow shield-bearer? I am picturing a little goblin jumping to shield an arrow meant for an Orc Big 'Un, though the orc would probably just pick up the goblin itself to catch the arrow with its head...

For your first question, it's the latter. Each missile has a 30-50% chance of being negated entirely, with those that go through rolling against armor as normal.

For your second question, it would probably be a case of which model the game detects as being hit by the projectile, so in theory possibly but I'd be wary about how it played out in practice. It's possible that the greater density of troops from overlapping the two units would just result in more arrow hits overall, or that the Orcs are too much taller than the Goblins to have them block arrows for them. More typically, arrow-catchers get deployed in their own line in front of the real fighter (which also allows them to absorb charges from shock units).

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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Gejnor posted:

I still kinda hold onto normal Boar Boyz though, they are better against infantry (or permanently against dwarfs because they don't have big units) because of their shield, but if there is another factor in here im missing please point it out to me!

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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Onmi posted:

Okay I'm just stone useless with outriders. So I have two from when Bret's attacking one of my towns, I decided to use them on two opposite sides of the field and bounce the bret army back and forth. And I get a great attack of opportunity when the lord is all alone with the rest of the troops running after the other outrider. So I'm waiting, and waiting and waiting, and they Outriders just REFUSE TO SHOOT!

They wont shoot unless they're stationary, and they wont shoot when they're stationary before the lord runs them down and routs them. The gently caress is wrong with these units. I can keep playing cat and mouse all day but unless they put the HIT into the Hit and Run, they're worthless.

Outriders don't need to be stationary, but they can't shoot behind themselves, so they function more like mounted infantry than true skirmish cavalry. You can still do some pretty cool things with a unit of Handgunners that can safely position themselves for back shots and they're absolute murder running down routing foes because they can shoot while pursuing and their weapons will kill anything.

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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Arcsquad12 posted:

I'm just seriously annoyed that my cavalry sent to deal with the quarrelers took one volley while maneuvering and then rote completely off the field without losing a fifth of their number

Wolf Riders cost like 300. No poo poo they lose to basically anything that can fight back. Use them to chase off routers or generate morale penalties by rear-charging engaged units, but don't think of them as real combat units, especially against poo poo like Quarrelers.

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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Dandywalken posted:

Chaos Chosen buffs across the board. Were they really that underperforming? Arent they stat wise one of (if not the) best Heavy inf unit per model?

Yes, but they were also insanely expensive and came in a tiny unit size so they ended up underperforming regardless.

The best change, though:

quote:

Lords now no longer occasionally fall through the ladder and die after climbing to the top of it

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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pnutz posted:

side note, what are the pistoliers useful for? that tiny ranged damage per shot makes it seem like they're useless versus anyone better armoured than a zombie or savage orc

Unfortunately, you've cracked the code.

Also their melee stats are so poo poo they can't even charge archers like skirmish cavalry in older TW games.

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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Comrayn posted:

To get outriders do I need to have both required buildings in the same city, same province, or just anywhere at all? Wiki is not really filled out for all the dumb questions I have.

Provinces share upgrades and buildings such that you can essentially think of them as one big mega-city in terms of development. A few buildings come with faction-wide bonuses, and they will tend to state so explicitly in their tooltips.

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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Carcer posted:

My favorite Empire memory will be walking cavalry through some of my own troops and watching as the cavalry attacked and killed them.

Empire was kind of a low point for the series, to be fair, though that and Rome II have put me off buying TW titles at launch.

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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Smiling Knight posted:

Slightly more detailed answer: the absolute, most garbage phalanxes in the game were virtually unbeatable if attacked from the front. Infantry, even stuff like high tier legions, could never get through the pikes/spears to actually be close enough for the attack animations. High-tier cav could maybe, maybe use their mass to break through but would take horrific casualties.

IIRC they were also implemented in a way that let them keep their anti-cavalry bonuses even when charged from behind, so a unit of heavy cavalry executing a flawless rear charge against a phalanx would end up self-destructing to a magical retroactive about-face.

Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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They're all women.

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Voyager I
Jun 29, 2012

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ZearothK posted:

It happens a lot, to the point where I got the habit of vanguard deploying Centigors or Wild Riders in certain hiding spots because it is not unusual for people to put ranged cav there. It is also good practice when fighting Wood Elves to put melee units vanguard deployed in firing range of your own line to catch Glade Riders at the start.

Celtic mirrors in Atilla were prone to being hilarious clusterfucks because the entirety of both armies would have vanguard deployment.

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