My friend came out as a libertarian

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > General Bullshit > My friend came out as a libertarian

ManDingo: Jun 1, 2001

News flash if you take any ideology to the extreme you end with with a pretty hosed up system. There are good things we can take from libertarianism in the right quantities. One of those I think doesn't get enough of the spotlight is making the small business more accessible. I honestly feel empathy for the fast food employee struggling to get by. When you think about it though I'm pretty sure that guy probably could make a pretty good burger. I'd much rather eat one of those instead of what McD's is serving. I think it would be awesome to see him gather a few of his coworkers and set up a bbq next door. I just I hope I could get there to buy one before the government shuts him down.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2016 16:35

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 03:37

ManDingo: Jun 1, 2001

Roylicious posted:

Opposition to big government control is not strictly the domain of libertarianism. Libertarianism is just the dumb overreaction.

That's fine I have no attachment to the word. However I have to point out there is exactly one candidate in opposition of big government and he's calling himself a libertarian.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2016 18:59

ManDingo: Jun 1, 2001

Sure the big R republicans have been saying that for years but it never seems to happen.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2016 19:02

ManDingo: Jun 1, 2001

Yeah I'm from Wisconsin and now live in the Twin Cities. You'd be surprised how many people commute from Wisconsin to save several thousand dollars in taxes each year. I guess if you are a union person then yeah Walker is the antichrist. That system needed to be shaken up I'm not sure that was the way to do it however. Such is life in politics.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2016 19:13

ManDingo: Jun 1, 2001

Roylicious posted:

Look Walker is just as much of a political lying scumbag as anyone else. You think him being a libertarian changes anything?

Who is saying he's a libertarian?

Gary Johnson believes in a social safety net. Is he a socialist then?

# ¿ Jun 10, 2016 19:23

ManDingo: Jun 1, 2001

Sorry I was talking about Walker being a libertarian.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2016 19:26

ManDingo: Jun 1, 2001

Roylicious posted:

Dude wants to eliminate all taxation and replace it with a flat 23% sales tax that will absolutely buttfuck our economy have no doubt.

So how does lower taxation negatively affect the economy? Do you assume if it's not taken and funneled through some giant bureaucracy then people will bury it under a tree. Maybe they'll spend it on wants and needs.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2016 19:30

ManDingo: Jun 1, 2001

Roylicious posted:

And there's no way 23% is going to cut it anyway so either that needs to be higher (even worse for the economy) or you're talking about ending tons of programs and departments that society relies upon such as education and letting them go private.

So now high taxes are bad for the economy? Pretty sure there would be an allowance for necessities (food, doctor, shelter, transportation) up to a certain income threshold. That's even assuming he'll get everything he wants to the letter (he won't). I couldn't even tell you what it would do to me personally. I need to hand some dude with a calculator a stack of papers and $150 and he tells me what my effective rate is. But what I do know is making the system less complex and thus way harder to dodge would be an improvement.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2016 19:49

ManDingo: Jun 1, 2001

Roylicious posted:

So, basically, your argument is "I don't know specifics but what I do know is SOMETHING is wrong and he is promising to make things better in a different way than the others! I don't know how his policies would affect me or others in our daily lives, by god I just am sick of all this.'

Which is understandable but surely you realize that's kind of not based on anything solid? For all you know he is speaking a lot of eloquent pretty words with the full intention of not helping you out whatsoever. Look at the policies actually advocated and do some research for yourself as to how they would affect things. Otherwise you're just basing your beliefs on emotions.

Anything that is going to negatively impact aggregate demand is bad for the economy. This is basically any taxation of course but obviously you need to fund things like a judiciary, military, etc.

It's not just about 'high taxes,' it's about who is taxed at what rate and why. If you can't even tell me how his tax policies would affect your effective tax rate then how can you seriously be sitting there supporting them? For all you know you'll end up paying more in taxes and getting less back in benefits.

There would be, but think of it like this: nVidia produces a chip that costs $500 retail, based on their production costs and R&D costs and whatnot. If people have money to spend, they'll buy luxury goods like a new GPU. nVidia needs to make more chips to meet demand, they build more factories and provide more jobs which allows them to lower prices based on economies of scale which further stimulates demand for their product and so on.

If people can only afford necessities like food/doctor/clothes, they are going to buy less GPUs. nVidia might not sell enough units to justify opening new factories. They might even end up laying employees off if sales lag enough. That has a knock on effect as well, but a bad one.

Just look at the share prices of retail companies if you don't believe me. Even WalMart is starting to struggle because simply put people ain't got poo poo to spend on goods/services they don't absolutely need. So the solution is raise the effective tax rate on the average person so they can cut business taxes? That isn't going to save any companies and no one is going to invest in growth if there is no profit to be made. They'll just thank you for the tax cut and raise the stock dividend.

Well that settles it, full communism now.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2016 20:04

ManDingo: Jun 1, 2001

Roylicious posted:

So, in response to my pretty bog standard macro-econ points, you give me some emotional appeal and when I don't just accept it at face value you do this.

You're really doing yourself a disservice, it's not like I give a poo poo in the end and I'm gonna be doing alright either way. Dunno why you're so closed minded but that's usually an indicator that your beliefs aren't logically defensible so you turn to getting mad or making fun or hyperbole to sandbag the opposing side.

It's just too much dude. I had a reply half written before you made like 10 edits. My points were this:

Government doing less things which are patently bad would be a good thing. War on drugs, endless nation building, crony capitalism etc.

Simplifying the tax system is also a good thing.

I have no interest in talking about video card production or how poor people are hosed. Like I said if those people had access to the economy that wasn't illegal drugs life will be better for them. There's plenty of threads you can read in archives that go over supply side vs demand side you can read at your leisure. Also if spending was in any way correlated with improved education we'd have seen it by now.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2016 20:22

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 03:37

ManDingo: Jun 1, 2001

So what epic burns do you guys dish out when anyone mentions the great leap forward?

# ¿ Jun 10, 2016 20:43

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > General Bullshit > My friend came out as a libertarian