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is it all that it's cut up to be? smash that poll button folks
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Jun 9, 2016 14:52
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no poll voted 2
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Jun 9, 2016 14:52
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Skyl3lazer posted:no poll voted 2 uhh haha wow someone's blind
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Jun 9, 2016 14:53
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more like democrazy am i right
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Jun 9, 2016 15:15
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https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/740763914988867585
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Jun 9, 2016 15:24
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well the US is a pretty poo poo example of a truly democratic country.
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Jun 9, 2016 15:59
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Reason posted:well the US is a pretty poo poo example of a truly democratic country. what's a good one?
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Jun 9, 2016 16:31
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democracy's first album was the only good one, ancient greece
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Jun 9, 2016 16:35
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Reason posted:well the US is a pretty poo poo example of a truly democratic country. dictatorship of the ruling class isn't truly democratic in the least
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Jun 9, 2016 16:54
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i viewed the results with mild disinterest without voting, this seemed the demographically correct thing for me to do
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Jun 9, 2016 16:57
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Democracy is okay as long as you only let the right people vote.
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Jun 9, 2016 17:59
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smg77 posted:Democracy is okay as long as you only let the right people vote. This. So Much This.
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Jun 9, 2016 18:06
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The best democracy is probably Switzerland. However, it recently rejected mincome, therefore democracy is bad and counterrevolutionary.
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Jun 9, 2016 18:30
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I loudly complained about the poll and how none of the options are acceptable to my class or stature and then drew and x on my screen and complaind that my vote wasnt counted. FRAUD!
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Jun 9, 2016 18:37
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smg77 posted:Democracy is okay as long as you only let the right people vote. Totally agree. Whites and people with photo IDs only please.
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Jun 9, 2016 18:37
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:Totally agree. Whites and people with photo IDs only please. he said the right people, not the white people
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Jun 9, 2016 20:42
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Only members of the Wu Tang clan should be allowed to vote and Cappadonna doesn't count.
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Jun 9, 2016 21:03
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It's good, you want to know what you get without accountability look at china more democratic = better than
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Jun 10, 2016 05:15
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rudatron posted:It's good, you want to know what you get without accountability look at china i refuse to take this obvious bait
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Jun 10, 2016 06:07
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Kansas has elected Sam Brownback twice. I can no longer in good concince believe that a job as important as ensuring that all citizens get proper medical care, that children receive an adequate education and that people do not starve or freeze to death in their homes can be properly filled by the electorate. Maybe we can manage to vote on less important things like roads and what time on Sunday we can buy beer then expand it as/if we improve.
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Jun 10, 2016 06:12
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i agree with Anakin, a strong dictatorship is truly the best form of government, but only if the dictator agrees with everything that I believe and shares all my values.
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Jun 10, 2016 09:43
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I love democracy. I love the republic.
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Jun 10, 2016 10:19
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which actual democracy that exists in 2016 is the best one for showing off how good and cool democracy can be?
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Jun 10, 2016 11:54
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Earwicker posted:which actual democracy that exists in 2016 is the best one for showing off how good and cool democracy can be? I don't know, what do you think is cool? Switzerland probably has the most elements of direct democracy that I know of, and it's fairly responsive to the electorate as a result. It's a prosperous, safe country in the heart of Western Europe; it's also racist as poo poo and run by old people terrified of minarets (just like everywhere else). The various Scandinavian social democracies are pretty good, even though they're all  constitutional monarchies which doesn't really prevent you from being a democracy and there's an argument to be made that it channels weird nationalism away from the actual levers of power. The US shows that a democracy can achieve great power and wealth, and can even deal with things like civil wars without collapsing, but it's abstracted the actual decision-making away from the electorate a layer or two and has some structural problems endemic to the system. And I hear some nice-ish things about Tunisia, even though every other country that took part in the Arab Spring has gone to hell in a handbasket. Take your pick I guess.
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Jun 10, 2016 12:24
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Earwicker posted:which actual democracy that exists in 2016 is the best one for showing off how good and cool democracy can be? Serioustpost: None. Every nominally democratic nation has some form of ancestral division of powers and legislative parliamentarism with significant historical inertia - the core of our systems of government are built on hundred-years old ideas of democracy and legitimacy of rule through the popular vote. While the systems have been refined over the years (no longer need to own land, be male and non-black etc.), the central concept of a representative democracy has endured. The problem almost every nation faces is a direct consequence of this; democratic representatives are not - nor have they ever been - a true representation of the will of the people, which ostensibly is the only place the legitimacy of the entire state machinery is derived. And how could they be representative? They are vulnerable to peer pressure, personal and other financial pressure, normal psychological mechanisms associated with your "in-group" or the otherisation of voters and the general public (the nobility syndrome), political pressure and re-election and personal bias. And plain stupidity or lack of insight/training/experience or education. This system has generated an upper class of politicians, with their own set of morals and methods. They have a huge impact on our society as a whole, but they are largely unregulated (they are the regulators after all) and often times above the law and legal consequence. They also profit personally from this "career choice". This "career politician" is complete anathema to the ideal of a public servant, which is likely part of the reason why the people as a whole really really hate politicians of any sort. But what can you do? After all, the people in charge to change the system are the same ones who profit from it. I don't think there's been many well-published suggestions or political texts (books like Das Kapital and other manifestos) proposing complete systemic reform of democracy (though I could be wrong about this and I just missed the memo). I guess that's because democracy is sort of a sacred thing now, and any deviation from the tradition is automatically assumed to lead to fascism or worse. Don't know how true that is either. The famous quote from Churchill goes "The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter" or something to that effect, and it makes a good point. A democracy is only as good as the average voter. The later years of greater average intelligence and more education should make one hopeful in that respect, though the spreading of ideas through the internet in viral fashions has given every terrible idea and impulse a soapbox these days, eroding a lot of basic common sense and good that I assume existed in earlier public debate on issues. I'd like to see proposals to reform democracy to take into account the inherent weaknesses of the system, particulary the elimination of "career politicians". Not that I think that would happen without drat near a revolution. Now returning to your regularly scheduled shitposts, thanks for reading.
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Jun 10, 2016 12:27
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goku
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Jun 10, 2016 12:33
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Turn around the question, and ask what dictatorship is a good role model. People go way loving overboard over problems in US, there are problems sure, but compared to the rest of the world there's no comparison. The only countries that compete are also democratic. The problems that do exist are from a lack of democratic control, e.g.- the market screwing people and then buying off politicians.
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Jun 10, 2016 12:36
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Homework Explainer posted:dictatorship of the ruling class isn't truly democratic in the least
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Jun 10, 2016 12:38
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The great security against a gradual concentration of the several powers in the same department, consists in giving to those who administer each department the necessary constitutional means and personal motives to resist encroachments of the others. The provision for defense must in this, as in all other cases, be made commensurate to the danger of attack. Ambition must be made to counteract ambition. The interest of the man must be connected with the constitutional rights of the place. It may be a reflection on human nature, that such devices should be necessary to control the abuses of government. But what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were goku, no government would be necessary. If goku were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions.
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Jun 10, 2016 15:14
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if you've been weaned on a diet of liberal democracy all your life this will sound counter-intuitive but the single-party democracies of cuba, china, etc., paired with their systems of worker control and input probably result in more individual influence in daily life than any of the countries we consider the "freest." it's easy to call those places "dictatorships" and handwave away their constitutions, their systems of government, the whole apparatus of workers' power. it's a lot harder to examine these places as they are and analyze from that plane instead of "oogah boogah scary tyrantmen"
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Jun 10, 2016 18:19
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I thought you said you weren't taking the bait
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Jun 10, 2016 19:03
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i am but a man, given to folly and error like all others
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Jun 10, 2016 19:08
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the problem with democracy is that The People are awful
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Jun 10, 2016 19:38
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Homework Explainer posted:if you've been weaned on a diet of liberal democracy all your life this will sound counter-intuitive but the single-party democracies of cuba, china, etc., paired with their systems of worker control and input probably result in more individual influence in daily life than any of the countries we consider the "freest." nice meltdown 
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Jun 10, 2016 19:39
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PleasingFungus posted:the problem with democracy is that The People are awful Hold on, Nobody seconded this motion. I call for a vote to strike this statement from the charter. All in favor say aye and raise your Post-Badge in the air.
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Jun 10, 2016 19:52
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Is the alternative being ruled by benevolent tyrant Reinhard von Lohengramm?
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Jun 10, 2016 19:58
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The Vinja Ninja posted:Hold on, Nobody seconded this motion. I call for a vote to strike this statement from the charter. All in favor say aye and raise your Post-Badge in the air. *cups hands around mouth, repeats this verbatim to 'human microphone' it to the people standing slightly behind me, who repeat it to the cluster behind them, the whole process adding 30 minutes to any simple procedural action that could've taken 20 seconds with a proper P.A. system* This is what democracy looks like! This is what democracy looks like!
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Jun 10, 2016 22:18
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Trumps Baby Hands posted:*cups hands around mouth, repeats this verbatim to 'human microphone' it to the people standing slightly behind me, who repeat it to the cluster behind them, the whole process adding 30 minutes to any simple procedural action that could've taken 20 seconds with a proper P.A. system* lmbo
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Jun 10, 2016 22:21
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But for realsies Homework Explainer, you're being naive. The CCP has 0 input or accountability from workers, it's an oligarchy plain and simple. It rules through a campaign of suppression and fear, hides what's inconvenient. An example: The truth about how bad soil safety is in China is considered a state secret, even as it is suspected that 1/6 of Chinese farmland has excessive levels of heavy metals. The polluters are obvious, but none will face punishment, because they're tied to local officials. Protests are, naturally, out of the question, because it is China. Compare that with the reaction to flint, and you see the difference. Liberal democracies, as flawed as they are, are capable of adapting to crises. China can't, because any popular action is automatically interpreted as an existential threat to the CCP itself. It can't leave any opportunity for political change, and so cannot adapt. It will run off a loving cliff if that lets the system of bribes work one second longer.
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Jun 11, 2016 02:38
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| # ? May 6, 2024 07:52 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWdfRRtAs3o
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Jun 11, 2016 03:02
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