What is to be grown? (Agribusiness, Organic, Local Farming Discussion)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > What is to be grown? (Agribusiness, Organic, Local Farming Discussion)

twodot: Aug 7, 2005; You are objectively correct that this person is dumb and has said dumb things

ReidRansom posted:

My goto example on this is milk. Milk is some very chemically complex stuff, loads and loads of poo poo in there, and while it's trivial these days to make a cow make more milk, you can't necessarily make the cow make more of all of the things that go into that milk. Organic milk therefore is typically higher in these micronutrients and can indeed provide greater health benefits to the consumer should they not be getting those nutrients elsewhere. But that isn't to say that non-organic milk is bad. Organic is expensive, and I'd rather people have milk that isn't necessarily the best it can be than no milk at all.

What's an example of a micronutrient found in milk which your average American able to afford organic milk is unlikely to find elsewhere? Like iodized salt is good because even if people are unlikely to need it, it has basically no impact on production or price. If we're asserting organic milk is healthy because it complements the nutrition profile of Soylent drinkers, that seems pretty suspect.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2016 19:36

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 18:08

twodot: Aug 7, 2005; You are objectively correct that this person is dumb and has said dumb things

ReidRansom posted:

CLA in both milk and meat. Also found in some mushrooms.

Now, as wikipedia there says, the evidence for any benefit CLA in particular may have in humans is still a bit up in the air, but it has shown evidence of anti-cancer properties and weight reduction and some role in preventing early-onset puberty, all likely related to its anti-aromatase activity. And it is something the content of which has decreased in our foods with modern production.

You haven't addressed my question, because there isn't established maximum beneficial amount of CLA (even assuming it is beneficial whatsoever, which seems in dispute), and whether an ordinary meat or mushroom eater would hit that limit anyways. You said "can indeed provide greater health benefits", but what you appear to mean is "For people who have a specific deficiency, which hasn't actually been proven to exist, drinking organic milk can be good". Given modern diets, I think someone saying "Using iodized salt can provide greater health benefits" to be very disingenuous.

# ¿ Jun 10, 2016 20:18

twodot: Aug 7, 2005; You are objectively correct that this person is dumb and has said dumb things

ReidRansom posted:

That it is beneficial isn't in dispute.

I don't understand how to reconcile this with this:

ReidRansom posted:

the evidence for any benefit CLA in particular may have in humans is still a bit up in the air

quote:

Recommended intake is ~3d/day, which you can get from non-organic meat or milk, but you'll need to consume about 5x as much to do so.

Can you expand "d" as a unit for me? Is it grams? I'm not seeing any good sources, but to hit 3g I'm seeing rando websites say you would need to drink 17 glasses of milk or a kilo of meat to hit that. Who is offering this recommendation? From the data I can find, the conclusion of "CLA is good" is "take CLA supplements" not "drink organic milk".

twodot fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Jun 10, 2016

# ¿ Jun 10, 2016 20:42

twodot: Aug 7, 2005; You are objectively correct that this person is dumb and has said dumb things

ReidRansom posted:

But you could also get enough of it in your diet if you choose what you eat carefully. This is all I'm saying.

I don't think you've provided any evidence this is true, even presuming it's good. Like grass fed cows produce more CLA in their milk than other cows, that doesn't seem to be in dispute, but whether that amount matters seems very much in dispute, especially considering an inability to reproduce, in humans, benefits found in animals.
edit:

ReidRansom posted:

ee: and once again, this was only meant as an example of how organic sometimes isn't total bullshit. It is not meant to say you cannot get the same benefit from some other source.

It's not a benefit, if I'm getting the same benefit from some other source. Iodized milk wouldn't provide great health benefits, because people get plenty of iodine from other sources.

twodot fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Jun 10, 2016

# ¿ Jun 10, 2016 20:58

twodot: Aug 7, 2005; You are objectively correct that this person is dumb and has said dumb things

Organic is regulated in the US, it just doesn't regulate very useful things:
http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/usda/usdahome?navid=organic-agriculture

# ¿ Jun 13, 2016 18:39

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > What is to be grown? (Agribusiness, Organic, Local Farming Discussion)