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Yeah I wasn't a fan of this episode, I liked the ending (Number 2 should have seen a double-cross coming a mile away though) but Number 6 isn't as interesting if he's not being played by McGoohan. Have to echo PassTheRemote in saying the story got a bit too specific about things in places for my liking - the weird ambiguity about EVERYTHING is part of the appeal of the show to me.
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Sep 20, 2016 08:04
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I remember reading somewhere that this episode was supposed to be the blueprint for a possible second series, where Number 6 would have been sent on missions by the Village to the outside world every week. This sounds like an exceedingly terrible idea to me, though, so I'm not sure if that's exactly true. It's a shame the episode with the best name is actually one of the worst ones. It also leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth because the one week McGoohan is not on set they give Number 6 a love interest, which he had always openly and vehemently opposed (to the point of almost making a mockery of the one supposedly romantic scene - albeit a fake one - in The Chimes of Big Ben, for example), and spout a lot of unnecessary backstory while McGoohan had always refused to give out any straight answers. Honestly, if anything, Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling shows how important McGoohan was to The Prisoner and how not very good it probably would have been without him. On the other hand, we will later see what happens when there's no one to hold McGoohan back, of course, but that's quite another story. Forktoss fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Sep 20, 2016 |
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Sep 20, 2016 08:43
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Forktoss posted:It's a shame the episode with the best name is actually one of the worst ones.
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Sep 20, 2016 10:55
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remusclaw posted:Patrick McGoohan's "Unforgiven". read Shattered Visage after this is over
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Sep 20, 2016 19:53
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The problem with "Do Not Forsake Me..." is that without the Village parts that top and tail the episode, it could just be a generic episode of any ITC action series. It's the kind of standard global espionage plot that would fit perfectly well into the format of The Saint, The Persuaders, et al. but doesn't really work in The Prisoner because it doesn't fit thematically with the rest of the show. I think it's generally regarded as the weakest of the run because it has so little to with anything else and just has the smell of filler all over it. I suppose you could level similar criticisms at "The Girl Who Was Death", but at least that breaks the format of the show in an interesting way.
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Sep 20, 2016 21:12
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I'm certain I read that 'The Girl Who Was Death' was a rewritten Danger Man script. (I could easily see it as an unfilmed Avengers episode as much as an Avengers pisstake, but The Avengers wasn't an ITC show so they wouldn't have had access to its scripts.)
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Sep 20, 2016 22:22
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There isn't a lot to say about this terrible episode that doesn't match anything in the rest of the series. I think if I was producing The Prisoner and I had to do an episode without McGoohan except in existing footage, I'd make the episode about the Village breaking another person. Tell a different story in the Village.Payndz posted:I'm certain I read that 'The Girl Who Was Death' was a rewritten Danger Man script. (I could easily see it as an unfilmed Avengers episode as much as an Avengers pisstake, but The Avengers wasn't an ITC show so they wouldn't have had access to its scripts.) I've heard the same thing, but it would have to a really heavy rewrite. The mind changing machine and the machinations around that make up a significant portions of the episode. The fiancee who he vanished on for a year are also central. Unless they had a spare brain swapping script sitting around, I think it's unlikely that they did more than grab a few elements.
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Sep 21, 2016 01:24
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Random Stranger posted:I've heard the same thing, but it would have to a really heavy rewrite. The mind changing machine and the machinations around that make up a significant portions of the episode. The fiancee who he vanished on for a year are also central. Unless they had a spare brain swapping script sitting around, I think it's unlikely that they did more than grab a few elements.
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Sep 21, 2016 11:15
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Payndz posted:You're mixing up 'Do Not Forsake Me...' and 'The Girl Who Was Death'. 'Girl' is the antepenultimate episode filled with all-out Avengers-style wackiness and the thread hasn't reached it yet. Oh yeah, that's definitely a script for another series that got appropriated.
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Sep 21, 2016 13:34
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I just watched the first 2 episodes of The Good Place and I can't help but think that the set design was based off of The Village.
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Sep 22, 2016 20:39
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The Girl Who Was Death We are in the home stretch, folks. While this doesn't take place in The Village really, the tone still feels like a Prisoner episode and the overall silliness makes sense once you know the twist. Once again, McGoohan was still filming the other movie so they needed a plot where they could use his stunt double a lot, without a lot of dialogue. Is it weird that I want a pint glass that says "You Have Just Been Poisoned"? And here is how to make one: http://makezine.com/projects/you-have-just-been-poisoned/ That bar scene is one of the reasons I love this show. Most spy shows would just have him stick his finer down his throat or find some antidote but Number 6 does it with such class and unique variation with a hint of comedy. Why does he wear his mustache disguise (and dressed as Sherlock Holmes) in the Turkish bath but is just in a suit in the bar? quote:The Sherlock Holmes disguise in the boxing match and the funfair was not in the original script. It was changed to allow Frank Maher, Patrick McGoohan's stunt double, to play No 6 during McGoohan's absence from filming. That boxing match might be the only fight Number 6 loses in the whole show. This was originally written as a Danger Man episode and it feels like it and it is really shoehorned into the Prisoner. Although that also adds to the idea that Number 6 actually is the same character as he was in Secret Agent. I look at this episode as necessary backstory before the ending.
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Sep 26, 2016 16:01
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I'd listen to Number 6 read me bedtime stories
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Sep 26, 2016 22:42
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I got to hear McGoohan singing "Oh Danny Boy". Also, Mcgoohan talked some sass to a vinyl record. I'm guessing The Prisoner took longer than scheduled to film. I'm guessing that after The Prisoner should have been finished, McGoohan would shoot Ice Station Zebra. I always look at this as a terrified number 2 trying to find a way to get something out of The Prisoner without provoking his wrath. The events of Hammer into Anvil are starting to really undermine the Village. How will its masters retaliate? Can they tolerate The Prisoner being there? Is the information he holds worth the damage he is now causing? Tune in next week to find out...
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Sep 27, 2016 12:59
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wins.
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PassTheRemote posted:I'm guessing The Prisoner took longer than scheduled to film. I'm guessing that after The Prisoner should have been finished, McGoohan would shoot Ice Station Zebra. Yeah. What happened is after the show was planned, the network ordered an additional four episodes. Which is why we have this block of awkward episodes that don't really fit.
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Sep 27, 2016 13:25
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This is such a strange episode, yet I still think it's one of my favourite ones by far. It's just so strange, yet mesmerizing to me. I very much enjoyed the performance of everyone in this episode, and number 2 as a Napoleon type general is great. He's just such a twit. I don't think it's really a great episode to analyze though, cause it really does just feel like a filler episode, not that I dislike filler episodes. It's just a bit too simple and straightforward compared to the rest. The best bits by far in the episode though are the smug little things that No. 6 does throughout. Watching MacGoohan's face as he downs the final drink in the bar, knowing that he's accomplished what he needs to is just so satisfying. Seeing him mess with the potato mashers, and then knock out the guy who comes up to investigate is awesome too. Of course, none of it compares to the best scene/line in the whole episode, where No. 2 explains his whole plan. "The lighthouse itself is the Rocket! Ha!" No. 6 is always at his best when he is annoying the hell out of the No. 2 of the week.
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Sep 27, 2016 16:29
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The lengthy sequence of the Prisoner tracking the Girl who was Death through the pub, turkish baths, amusement park and abandoned town was great, things just got a little too silly once he got into the lighthouse. The very late, loose connection to the Village itself felt very much tacked on and it was just too obvious the episode was filler/a revised script from some other show. Agreed that the pub scene with him knocking back drink after drink to induce vomiting was great.
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Sep 30, 2016 10:54
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York_M_Chan posted:Episode 13 - Living In Harmony York_M_Chan posted:I just wanted Number 6 to walk into Number 2's office and say, "What the gently caress was the point of that?!" The Vosgian Beast posted:Until the end, I was hoping that the Kid would somehow turn out to be a stand-in for Rover. Jerusalem posted:I just didn't buy 8's sudden shift back into The Kid mode (was he pumped full of hallucinogenic drugs too? Jerusalem posted:I don't begrudge them experimentation at all (hell, the show is experimentation personified) but this did feel like it was mostly an excuse to throw in some unused script from another tv series and give McGoohan the chance to make a Western on ITV's dime, and the truly interesting stuff at the end is mostly there to justify the fact it was part of the series. York_M_Chan posted:Don’t Forsake Me, Oh My Darling PassTheRemote posted:The whole plot with The Prisoner's government trying to get Seltzma, only for the Village to get him is kind of pointless, and it makes it seem like the Village is not part of the West. Jerusalem posted:Number 6 isn't as interesting if he's not being played by McGoohan. Maelstache posted:It's the kind of standard global espionage plot that would fit perfectly well into the format of The Saint, The Persuaders, et al. but doesn't really work in The Prisoner because it doesn't fit thematically with the rest of the show. I think it's generally regarded as the weakest of the run because it has so little to with anything else and just has the smell of filler all over it. York_M_Chan posted:The Girl Who Was Death
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Oct 1, 2016 13:50
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Girl Who Was Death is hilarious. Whether it's got its origins in another series or not, it's so cartoonish and so far over the top that it comes right back around to working. Especially the ending of the episode makes it clear that its inclusion in the show is McGoohan commenting tacitly on how dumb/goofy spy shows are.
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Oct 1, 2016 13:54
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So I have a random question. Does the Lotus 7 (the version Number 6 would have had) have indicators/turn signals? I noticed that in the intro he signals turning with his hands. If it didn't, was that illegal or not in Britain in the 60s?
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Oct 1, 2016 15:40
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I liked TGWWD a lot more on repeat viewings, when I knew what to expect. Once the initial disappointment of another filler episode faded it was quite an enjoyable lighthearted episode, and a good lead in to the more intense final (Number)2 episodes. The ending raises questions about the kids presence in the Village up until now. I suppose since it's a filler it can get away with it though. I like the idea of Number 2 getting some kids shipped in just for his little scheme.
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Oct 1, 2016 16:50
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Tiggum posted:This was very obviously a filler episode recycled from an unused script for something else, and I can't imagine that the series as a whole wouldn't be improved by just skipping it. It stands deeply apart from the series, but on its own without the context of the The Prisoner, I kind of like The Girl Who Was Death. Not brilliant, but it was kind of fun in its own way.
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Oct 1, 2016 21:50
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I like the funhouse dungeon thing the episode has going on. Like a spy themed D&D adventure. It's ridiculous, and non essential, but had enough going on to make it a pretty fun watch. Much like the episode where 6 has a fiance and such, the story does the series some damage. It is better to assume that the story told was very embellished, as I think the Prisoner works better set in the real world, rather than in an absurd world where the worst kind of James Bond stories are fact.
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Oct 1, 2016 22:19
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SynchronizedCocks posted:I liked TGWWD a lot more on repeat viewings, when I knew what to expect. Once the initial disappointment of another filler episode faded it was quite an enjoyable lighthearted episode, and a good lead in to the more intense final (Number)2 episodes. There have to be some people who know too much but also have kids. Shipping their kids there with them would seem like a good move, given that they can both go "We have your children" AND "You and your family will be taken care of perfectly well if you just give us information".
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Oct 3, 2016 13:55
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Get Hyped. Today is the day I've been waiting for for a few months.
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Oct 3, 2016 15:17
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Episode 16 - Once Upon A Time The title, once again, seems to almost work better for the previous episode. "From the cradle to the grave" as Number 2 says later in the episode would have worked better. Buckle in folks! McKern is back!   But Rover is in his seat!  Seriously though, that opening scene is so ominous. You immediately know that something something is wrong. Even the Butler seems to want to answer to Rover and not Number 2. While all through the show, Number 6's door seems to operate under someone else's control, here it seems that 6 controls the door. I can't think of anything more haunting that Leo McKern sneaking into my bedroom and singing me nursery rhymes while I slept. I get the impression the Butler did not want to be locked up with these nuts for a week. I love how casually he clubs Number 6. In the bit where 2 is saying, "Kill boy, kill" and then says, "You still can't do it." - I think this is a massive clue into 6's history. The idea that he doesn't want to kill is repeated a lot through this episode. During the filming of this episode Leo McKern suffered either a nervous breakdown or a heart attack (reports differ). You can see why. This is one of the most intense episodes of Television ever. Doesn't 6 essentially express why he resigned? He has innocent blood on his hands (a car wreck while on a mission and in the war) and he wan't peace of mind. He says, "I do not wish to kill." That scene, with 6 locked in the apartment and McKern on the other side is, perhaps, my favorite scene in any Prisoner episode. What I love so much about this episode is that no one is really in control. 2 isn't really doing on of his "tricks" like in previous episodes - yes there is the light that seems to be reverting 6 into his past states but 2 don't have control of what is going to happen. Also, I realized watching this episode that 2 is served breakfast, then they eat lunch together, and finally 6 says he is hungry for supper. While a week is supposed to be passing, it is divide up as though it was a single day. They really mess with your sense of time in this episode. Watching this episode again I really noticed that it seemed more about pushing Number 6 to kill again rather than to find out why he resigned. As if Number 2 was actually an assassination target and Number 6 the unknowing assassin.
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Oct 3, 2016 16:13
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Degree Absolute is the title of this episode in a perfect world. Remember that this episode was produced right after The Chimes of Big Ben. Markstein did still have some pull. McKern had on his acting shoes for this one. I always love the fact when he is looking at the rear projection of The Prisoner at his home pacing. His uttances of "Why do you care" are so good. "Why do you care?" "You'll never know"  This was the worst thing for No. 2 to hear. After going back over the file, Degree Absolute is the only way. Think about it, the core provision the masters have always given is "He is too important, no permanent damage" . At this point, he is such a problem, that they approve a process that might kill him. Make no mistake, those two men entered the room, only one was going to leave alive. That's why No. 2 stated "I am a good man, I was a good man, but if you get him he'll be better and there's no other way, no other way". The series has hinted at this, but this is the biggest evidence that the masters want The Prisoner not as just a resident, but a weapon. Also, at this point, The Prisoner is a liability to the Village. He has caused so much damage and subversion, that his importance is becoming an albatross around the village's neck. No. 2's singing in The Prisoner's home shows how frazzled No. 2 is. He starts calm(Humpty Dumpty), but breaks down into fury(Jack and Jill), and then to a state of depression(Grand old duke of York). He does not want to have to do this, but he is left with no other hand to play. The room they are in had a very David Lynch quality to it. Everything tha tis done is symbolic, not literal to The Prisoner's life. They go back to childhood, because his history tells that his pattern of rebelliousness is something that has always been with him. No. 6 thinks that if he can remove it, he will be able to reform The Prisoner's personality. The whole thing in this room is breaking The Prisoner. It's not really about why he resigned, it's about pushing him to the breaking point. That's why No 2 ordered The Prisoner to kill him with his fencing saber. It's not about whether The Prisoner would or would not kill in his job, it was about breaking his will. The reason No. 2 was begging at the end is because he did not mind dying if it meant success, but him dying in vain would be far worse. TL;DR - I love this episode. The tension never let go throughout the episode. It is one of the best acted eps of television I have ever seen. It's also the lead in to the last episode, and hold onto your butts, cause you ain't ready for Fall Out. Edit - Also, the lone wolf belongs to the wilderness.
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Oct 3, 2016 17:49
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PassTheRemote posted:The room they are in had a very David Lynch quality to it. I feel like the room was the stage for some experimental theater. Which is what this episode essentially was. This is such a wonderfully intense episode and back to the great Prisoner after those contractual obligation episodes. Everything feels so hostile and confrontational in it and there isn't a moment to catch your breath. That weird tinkertoy set up always gets me on this episode. In a story built on weird set dressing, that's the bit that stands out to me. I think I'll have to save my comment on Number 2's death for next week given the content of that episode. And hey, Number 6 has won and is going to meet Number 1. Surely nothing can go wrong now!
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Oct 4, 2016 01:16
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Random Stranger posted:I feel like the room was the stage for some experimental theater. Which is what this episode essentially was. Number 1 was Rover the whole time
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Oct 4, 2016 04:23
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This episode certainly held my attention, but I'm not sure I'd call it good. It probably depends on what happens in the final episode.
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Oct 4, 2016 08:19
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Random Stranger posted:I feel like the room was the stage for some experimental theater. Which is what this episode essentially was.
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Oct 4, 2016 08:48
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I love that on Jan 28, 1968, a vast quantity of the British public turned on their televisions hoping to see Patrick McGoohan and Leo McKern do badass spy things and ended up watching what was effectively a piece of experimental theatre about the seven stages of life. Like, at this point I think the Prisoner was getting viewing figures on a par with, say, Lost or Breaking Bad or something.
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Oct 4, 2016 09:29
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Whybird posted:I love that on Jan 28, 1968, a vast quantity of the British public turned on their televisions hoping to see Patrick McGoohan and Leo McKern do badass spy things and ended up watching what was effectively a piece of experimental theatre about the seven stages of life. It does raise the question of what the British public were expecting with "Fall Out." I don't think a 21st century perspective is necessary to guess that this weird series was gonna end weird. Although - eh, I'll save it for Fall Out.
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Oct 5, 2016 16:46
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Tiggum posted:This episode certainly held my attention, but I'm not sure I'd call it good. It probably depends on what happens in the final episode. I definitely like this episode more on subsequent viewings. It is probably one of my favorites now, wherein I didn't particularly like it on my first go around. PassTheRemote posted:The room they are in had a very David Lynch quality to it. I completely agree. When the Butler is deadpan, shaking the rattle it feels like we are in The Red Room from Twin Peaks. (Which would be another great show to do an week-by-week rewatch of)
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Oct 5, 2016 16:51
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York_M_Chan posted:I definitely like this episode more on subsequent viewings. It is probably one of my favorites now, wherein I didn't particularly like it on my first go around. That would be a good idea, what with the new series coming out, though I suspect it would turn into a hatewatch for most of the latter half of the second season. Jai Guru Dave posted:It does raise the question of what the British public were expecting with "Fall Out." I don't think a 21st century perspective is necessary to guess that this weird series was gonna end weird. Although - eh, I'll save it for Fall Out. It ending with some evil double agent working for the Russians stepping out and saying "You see Number 6, I was Number 1 the whole time and I needed the codes to the supernukes" would honestly be more surprising than any weird twist they might throw out. It'd be like if Franz Kafka's the Metamorphosis ended with Gregor fighting an evil wizard to get his true form back.
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Oct 5, 2016 18:08
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The Vosgian Beast posted:That would be a good idea, what with the new series coming out, though I suspect it would turn into a hatewatch for most of the latter half of the second season. Maybe people could just skip from episode six of the second season to the second to last episode (I think it's episode six where the story line gets wrapped up). The Vosgian Beast posted:It'd be like if Franz Kafka's the Metamorphosis ended with Gregor fighting an evil wizard to get his true form back. I see that you've read Sony Picture's script for a Metamorphosis movie.
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Oct 5, 2016 18:30
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Well that was one hell of a return to form after the last couple of episodes. Absolutely loved it, particularly the experimental theater feeling it had - McKern and McGoohan worked so well against each other and McKern's intensity was fantastic, the way he slowly falls apart (from a not particularly solid start!) was portrayed so well, and in the end when he's on his knees in the spotlight begging that there is still time, still time.... goddamn that was good. I do love the sense that, as others have stated, by this point the Prisoner's anarchic nature has upset things in the village so much that even the higher-ups(higher-up?) have decided to start risking damage or death to him because they've finally realized they can't leave him alone to just do his own thing anymore. That early scene where he wanders up to some poor villager and starts spooking him by demanding numbers from him was a great example of that I thought, he's a horrible disorganizing element into the otherwise very ordered chaos of the Village. I also loved what emphasis Number 2 put on getting the Prisoner to say "6" only for him to finally just casually throw it out there before revealing he'd at some point figured out what was happening to him and had just been playing along. The point of labeling him had always been (or so I assume) part of the desire of the Village to break him down into slowly accepting small facets of their society and using those to gradually drag him deeper in. But the label only has meaning if he allows it to have meaning, if he decides that Number 6 is, after all, just a number, then it means nothing and saying it out loud is irrelevant. Watching the Village's best laid plans break on the back of the Prisoner is always fantastic to see and we really, really got it in this episode. I've heard a lot of things about the finale (thankfully very little in the way of details) so it remains to be seen if they can follow it up, but as a penultimate episode I thought this one (which should have been called Degree Absolute) was really remarkable. The Vosgian Beast posted:It'd be like if Franz Kafka's the Metamorphosis ended with Gregor fighting an evil wizard to get his true form back. Thanks for spoiling the ending, rear end in a top hat! 
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Oct 8, 2016 04:07
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Looks like I found this thread right before the end! The Prisoner is my all-time favorite TV show, although I haven't rewatched it in over a decade. I'll have to see if how many episodes I can cram in and what I think of them now. I recall not really liking Once Upon a Time the first time I saw it (although at that point I'd only seen about half of the series), but I now think it's way up there. Possibly even better than Fall Out. It's better acted at least, but that's not meant as a slight against the finale.
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Oct 9, 2016 00:07
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Jerusalem posted:
No words could possibly spoil Fall Out.
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Oct 9, 2016 00:28
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Hank Morgan posted:No words could possibly spoil Fall Out. Reminder to read Shattered Visage after we're done with Fall Out. It's the only way you'll save your sanity. 
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Oct 9, 2016 02:12
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Hank Morgan posted:No words could possibly spoil Fall Out. I had a dream last night that it was animated, and everyone was represented by their numbers moving around on a blue background
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Oct 9, 2016 16:09
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