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Who was the biggest war criminal of Killzone 2?
Rico
Sev
Visari
Blind Sally
Killzone 1
Crow, update PoP2008
View Results
 
  • Locked thread
Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Lazy Bear posted:

Maybe it's me, but bullpup rifles always seem like they'd be really awkward to handle. I mean, I understand the theoretical benefits, but... I dunno, magazine out front just looks more right.

Its not awkward at all, since you don't grip the magazine anyways.

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Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

nine-gear crow posted:

So we just recorded the alternate Single Player commentary for the first third of the game. So Missions 1 and 2 should be up either later tonight or tomorrow, so soon you too can experience the wonder that is "a solid minute of Jobbo and Argate belching before we start the video" :barf:

I regret nothing!

Cooked Auto
Aug 4, 2007

If you will not serve in combat, you will serve on the firing line!




Jobbo_Fett posted:

I regret nothing!

It certainly was something. That's for sure. :catstare:

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!
You should've used the burps as the censor beeps.

Sally
Jan 9, 2007


Don't post Small Dash!

Cooked Auto posted:

It certainly was something. That's for sure. :catstare:

'Twas a beautiful euphony of bodily functions.

Sally
Jan 9, 2007


Don't post Small Dash!

VolticSurge posted:

Mind explaining how? I never really payed too much attention to the story in those games. But I thought 3 at least had good gameplay?

My side-project where I rant about Resistance 3 is up, if you're still interested: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3782748

Sally
Jan 9, 2007


Don't post Small Dash!






Ahh, these two gentlemen of Helghan are beginning their dance. I don't have much to say about it just yet as I want to let it speak for itself--Ray Winstone and Malcolm McDowell are excellent at selling their parts. There's just a couple bits of neat blocking I want to point out. First, "Visari's Throne" here. Empty, for the moment, but it's clear from the speech we've seen him give that Admiral Orlock is interested in moving up in power. Now look where Chairman Stahl's hand it. Yeah. He's not just calling out Orlock to antagonize him, Stahl wants to seize power for himself, believes that the Helghast leadership should remain in the hands of a businessman rather than a military officer.



And if that wasn't clear enough, we get a shot of the two men standing with Visari's portrait looming between them. This shot is only seen for half a second, so it's not super obvious.



Back to our "heroes", this level has some weird pacing as crow points out in the video. We go from an on-rails turret section to on-foot to a sniper-section to a vehicle section to back on foot. It makes the level feel a bit frantic, which works given what's going on. I've grabbed this screenshot because it shows that even in the background chatter there's still this push-pull of Rico wanting to disobey orders to win the current fight and Narville's orders to hurry the gently caress up because he knows they're on a strict time limit. Again, both of them are right in their way. Defiance, whoever they are, die just as they refuse Rico's order to form up, but if they were to slow down any more, the ISA Cruisers will a) leave without them or b) die.



Then this happens. It's funny because Sev gives Rico, technically his superior officer, the order to move up Pvt. Gutmann and co. Rico giving the order to Sev to provide cover fire would've made more sense, but given what we know about their relationship, it's funny that Sev is still acting like the commanding officer. Anyways, I don't count this as a Guerrilla Games trying to make Rico more sympathetic moment because he's acting under Sev's orders AND because we never see Gutmann ever again. For all we know, Rico gets this man killed trying to move him up.

So it goes.



Here we meet our first ISA woman soldier, Jammer. Though Jammer appears to be a callsign, so I don't totally know what her role on the battlefield is--she's not a Shadow Marshall like, Luger, that's for sure. (Maybe she was originally assigned as an Intruder pilot?). Anyways, time for a bit of trivia. It's been known since Killzone 1 that the game has a serious problem with tokenism with both people of colour and women. Since Jammer has just been introduced, let's focus on her for a moment. Did you know that only the fifth woman to appear in this series? That's right, before her was General Vaughton's communications officer in Killzone 1, Luger, Evelyn Batton, and most recently, Hera Visari. If you thought, "drat, we're four games into this series, that's pretty bad," then hey, I agree. Jammer is also the third woman to actively take part in combat and is the first woman ISA soldier we've seen. I really thought Guerrilla should've taken a page from Starship Troopers, but this is what we've got.



Anyways, Rico tries to disobey orders--Narville catches him, but he makes sure to sent Intruders to pick up Jammer and her crew. For all the poo poo given to Naville, he cares about his people. Right now he's trying to save as many of them as possible, and speed is really of the essence here.



Seriously, 'cause the Cruisers are getting shot up by some serious anti-aircraft weaponry.



We even get a brief glimpse of General Mandaloniz, the man aboard the Cruiser Compulsion who has been yelling at Narville for the past while. Of course, Rico and Sev have no idea what's going on with the Compulsion and Mandaloniz, they only get a sense of urgency from Narville. Again, considering he's their superior officer, it's surprising the flak they give him. Of course, they see what they see and they act accordingly. I like that Guerrilla shows Mandaloniz talking to Narville, though, because it reminds the player that Narville isn't just giving orders at random. He has a superior officer of his own and there are things going on in the battlefield that he knows that Rico and Sev don't.



Moving on, we have our vehicle segment. crow is right, they do kinda look like walking coffins.



Aaaaand right afterwards we find out that the rescue Intruders were shot down. Narville looks genuinely distressed here. Let no one say he doesn't care for his people. However, I understand that he can't send anymore resources to help Jammer. He has literally run out of time. Furthermore, a bunch of people died trying to get to her. At this point, given their time is up, he'd just be sending more people to their death.

So of course, Rico volunteers to ignore orders and go save Jammer.



Perhaps somewhere deep down Rico knows it's a suicide mission. He has to realize that Sev can't actually get Narville to "wait". Rico is aggressive, he's rude, he's not the sharpest tool in the shed (what the gently caress is a Shakespeare?) but he's not stupid. When it comes to the battlefield, Rico is downright savvy. This right here, this line, this is a man who realizes he's made mistakes. Lots of mistakes. That line, "I gotta do this, man", is a man who desperately needs to do something good. A man who is beyond redemption trying to do something right. Yeah, Rico is disobeying orders here, but he sends away Sev. He knows he's probably not coming back, but he has to try. So he goes to try and save Jammer and her squad. It's not going to make up for all the pain and suffering Rico has done, but it shows that he's self-aware. It shows that he feels guilty. It shows that he wants to try and do the right thing.

So good for Rico. That one line, short, almost a throwaway line, speaks volumes about this character.



Anyways, Sev doesn't have long to dwell on it since the culmination of the Helghast military industrial complex begins to loom over him. The MAWLR is has caught up with the ISA Cruisers.



crow is mistaken in the video, the in-game audio confirms that at least one of the ISA Cruisers, the Arcturus, made it safely to orbit and presumably returned to Vekta. It's the Dauntless we see fall on Rico and Jammer. The Compulsion, again, is the one with General Mandaloniz and is seen falling to its death at the end of the cutscene.



And oh, Rico almost made it back.



So many mixed feelings at this point.



Yeah, Rico is trying to do something good, but at this point it almost feels like too little too late.



Like, seriously Rico, maybe you shouldn't have waited until the sky was literally falling on you. Better late than never, I suppose?



Pvt Gutmann and General Mandaloniz have such minor roles in the game that I don't think it's worth even making portraits for them. They're about as relevant as General Mandrake, if anyone remembers who that guy was. Anyways, one notable new character:



Jammer is a competent hand-to-hand fighter, marksman, and pilot. She's also quite skilled around computers and technology, Vektan and Helghan. Given her skills, she could very well have been a member of Alpha Squad. Instead, she's relegated to a minor token role in Killzone 3. At least she has more personality than Natko.

Apparently she was modeled after Eva Mendes.

Jammer will wind up being to Rico as Hooper is to Narville. Rico and Narville will wind up playing the roles of the Devil and Angel sitting on Sevchenko's shoulders and Jammer and Hooper wind up being the sidekick to both of them.




MAWLR

It's 280 metres tall.

Like, seriously.

MAWLR stands for Mounted Artillery Walker/Long Range. Somewhat contrived, but it makes for a cool acronym. It's basically a walking battleship. Anyways, its primary weapon is the massive arc cannon we saw blow the Dauntless into smithereens. It also has dozens of missile batteries and auto-cannons place all over its exterior, as well as machine guns and mortars. Literally. This thing can attack in all directions with its armaments. It's slow, yes, but literally covered in guns. Such is Stahl's madness.

They're also pretty mobile. It's Killzone canon that these things are able to scale vertical surfaces. True story.





More returning guns. The shotgun gets an optical scope this time, which may not make a whole lot of sense at first, but trust me, it's a good thing. In Killzone 2, it didn't have a scope and you couldn't aim down the sights. You had to hip-fire. It was fine--I guess. I didn't like it. But it was especially useless on Elite difficulty, which eliminated onscreen crosshairs. Without that, using the shotgun was an exercise in frustration. Since you couldn't aim down the sights, it was effectively useless. This optical sight means the gun is still useful on Elite difficulty. Also, it seems to fire faster. I dunno. Whatever it is about the Killzone 3 version of the shotgun, it's a lot better than the previous game and, for once, I kinda like using a shotgun in a mainline Killzone game.

The flamethrower is identical. If you enjoyed it in the previous game, you'll like it here. It is what it is.




Sevchenko vs. The MAWLR

Sally fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Oct 6, 2016

Sally
Jan 9, 2007


Don't post Small Dash!


Sadly, Jobbo and Jamie had too much faith in Blind Sally. I'm sorry I let you down. FoolyCharged had too much faith in nine-gear crow. I'm afraid the three of you have been eliminated from the death contest.

(It's still not too late if other people want to sign up. As long as you get in a guess before the next update, I'll count it.)

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!

Blind Sally posted:

he's not the smartest tool in the shed (what the gently caress is a Shakespeare?) but he's not stupid.

I would like to contest this, I have video evidence of the contrary

Sally
Jan 9, 2007


Don't post Small Dash!
damnit, that should say "sharpest tool in the shed". i can't even get that right D:

Cooked Auto
Aug 4, 2007

If you will not serve in combat, you will serve on the firing line!




My first impression for the vehicle part is pretty much "We played Modern Warfare 2" based on the radio chatter because it reminds me of the chatter from at least the beginning and end of the Washington sections of the game.
But to be fair, it works amazingly as a mood setter for both the beginning and the end where the desperation and panic just oozes out of it. So I'd say the succeeded very well on that.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013





Well in light of the co-op portion of the game coming to a close, I will try to get the alternate single player videos with Jobbo and Argate up later tonight as well.

Space Kablooey
May 6, 2009


I thought the death contest was for the entire game for some reason. Oh well.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!
I think it is, based on the blurb from the first post about it:

quote:

Basically, crow and I are going to play the game in about equal parts. Don't worry, the entire LP won't be co-op--we just wanted to show it off a bit in the beginning. For the most part, it'll be played straight through as single-player, though we're going to take turns on different levels.

I'm assuming how it'll work after the co-op vids are finished is that deaths while crow is playing count for him and likewise for blind sally.

Sally
Jan 9, 2007


Don't post Small Dash!
Yes! That is correct.

For example, I play the next stage, so I will be able to catch up with crow w/r/t deaths. crow will be playing the stage after that. Then back to me, then crow, etc.,etc., until the game ends. It also gives us a chance to view the game with different play styles. I tend to be more cavalier, rush into things, and use lots of hip firing. crow is more methodical in his approach, makes good use of cover, and tends to use the iron sights more often.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!
You will be able to get that much closer to my entirely accurate guess :getin:

Apep727
Jun 18, 2016
Just want to say, I love that one or two of the guys on the Helghast senate have the giant muttonchops/mustache look going on. I can't for the life of me remember what that's called, but I just love it. That, and the one guy with the oxygen-tank nose plug.

Also, who the heck was that one guy Stahl was making eyes at at the end of that cut scene? I assume he'll be important later.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013





Apep727 posted:

Just want to say, I love that one or two of the guys on the Helghast senate have the giant muttonchops/mustache look going on. I can't for the life of me remember what that's called, but I just love it. That, and the one guy with the oxygen-tank nose plug.

Also, who the heck was that one guy Stahl was making eyes at at the end of that cut scene? I assume he'll be important later.

Well, like I said in my section in the intro post, you can tell which senator favors which of our two claimants to the Helghan throne through their reactions to certain events. Senator "Combover John McCain" is in Stahl's camp (or Stahl's pocket, I should say, more on that later), while Senator "HitlerVape" as I've come to call him, is clearly Orlock's man. The rest of the Senate are easily swayed wildcards.

But good on you for catching that, it's gonna be important to an extent in the relative future.

Sally
Jan 9, 2007


Don't post Small Dash!
I was gonna start posting pictures of American Civil War soldiers and their facial hair, but some websites have already done that for me. Behold, what I assume to be the inspiration for the Helghast Senate: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2104419/The-greatest-beards-moustaches-Civil-War.html

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


Two things struck me in that little scene with the senate. First, let's get another look at these guys.


"Old men, running the world...a new age!"

To me, Jorhan Stahl, despite being well into his fifties, still comes off as the "young firebrand" with a head full of "dangerous ideas" when compared to these Nazi skeletors.

Secondly, his plan of promising the ISA troops "whatever" (cease fire, safe place to disembark), luring them all to one place, then killing them, is a little unsettling. While Orlock is looking at this situation as a battle to win, Stahl seems to be reading it in terms of an act of extermination. I might be reading way too much into it, but I'm getting the impression that Stahl is the sort of guy who thinks shooting down Red Cross planes is a sound tactical decision (and hilarious to watch as well).

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013





As promised (partly):


chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Blind Sally posted:


MAWLR

It's 280 metres tall.

Like, seriously.

MAWLR stands for Mounted Artillery Walker/Long Range. Somewhat contrived, but it makes for a cool acronym. It's basically a walking battleship. Anyways, its primary weapon is the massive arc cannon we saw blow the Dauntless into smithereens. It also has dozens of missile batteries and auto-cannons place all over its exterior, as well as machine guns and mortars. Literally. This thing can attack in all directions with its armaments. It's slow, yes, but literally covered in guns. Such is Stahl's madness.

They're also pretty mobile. It's Killzone canon that these things are able to scale vertical surfaces. True story.


Have the Helghast even heard of the square cube law?

That's nearly 28 times the size of the loving Ratte! 14 times the size of an AT-AT. More than twice as big as the Neo Zeong, which was a giant robot so big a smaller giant robot was the only way to pilot it, and that would fall apart instantly under Earth's gravity.

It's not even a one-off prototype! They are mass producing these stupid things! They are making hundreds of them, on their planet, where they already wiped out most of the ISA troops before the MAWLRs saw service, and I'm sorry, even with videogame logic, they are not going to be able to get them offworld. You are investing enough resources to... I can't even say all the better things you could do with that. But no. Build giant robots to mop up the last few ISA troops. Bra-vo.

I get that they're Space Nazis, but wow. I'd say someone was compensating for something, but not even Helghans have dicks that small.

Sally
Jan 9, 2007


Don't post Small Dash!
Such is Stahl's madness.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!
Go big or go home, man. And going home is sort of becoming an issue for the helghast at this point! Ergo, bigger-than-giant giant fuckoff war machine.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013





I stand by my assertion that Stahl is the Helghast Donald Trump :colbert::smugdon::colbert:

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Marshal Radisic posted:

Two things struck me in that little scene with the senate. First, let's get another look at these guys.


"Old men, running the world...a new age!"

To me, Jorhan Stahl, despite being well into his fifties, still comes off as the "young firebrand" with a head full of "dangerous ideas" when compared to these Nazi skeletors.

Secondly, his plan of promising the ISA troops "whatever" (cease fire, safe place to disembark), luring them all to one place, then killing them, is a little unsettling. While Orlock is looking at this situation as a battle to win, Stahl seems to be reading it in terms of an act of extermination. I might be reading way too much into it, but I'm getting the impression that Stahl is the sort of guy who thinks shooting down Red Cross planes is a sound tactical decision (and hilarious to watch as well).

Orlock sees the ISA as an adversary, and the campaign against them as a military endeavour.

Stahl looks at the ISA and sees bugs, only deserving death. Whatever Orlock's plans are, Stahl plans to go one step further. He doesn't see the war as one that will end with a side surrendering. He sees is as one side exterminating the other.

Sally
Jan 9, 2007


Don't post Small Dash!
Orlock is the leader the Helghast need. Stahl is the leader they deserve. :smith:

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Blind Sally posted:

Orlock is the leader the Helghast need. Stahl is the leader they deserve. :smith:

Stahl is the Joker, but does that mean Sev is the Batman?

Orlock is the Penguin, of course.

biosterous
Feb 23, 2013




Voting 23 for Sally and 37 for Crow, if that wasn't taken already.

(also I'm pretty sure I haven't voted, but if I already did then stick with the first one I guess?)

Sally
Jan 9, 2007


Don't post Small Dash!
nope, you haven't voted and that vote hasn't been taken! full vote list is in the OP. I've added your guess there.

VKing
Apr 22, 2008
So, why'd those cruisers not blow the hell out of that MAWLR?
Sure it's stupid huge as gently caress but it's not space cruiser huge. Where's all the firepower from the Killzone 2 intro gone? Was Templar the only person who knew how the guns worked? Job security reasons, perhaps?

Also, those loving Intruders. Who thought those was a good idea (both in-universe and out)?

SelenicMartian
Sep 14, 2013

Sometimes it's not the bomb that's retarded.

VKing posted:

Also, those loving Intruders. Who thought those was a good idea (both in-universe and out)?
They probably wanted to make something even less functional than the barges from Saving Private Ryan.

White Coke
May 29, 2015
So why don't anyone in the ISA need gas masks on Helgan? Or did the Helghast already clean up their atmosphere?

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

VKing posted:

So, why'd those cruisers not blow the hell out of that MAWLR?
Sure it's stupid huge as gently caress but it's not space cruiser huge. Where's all the firepower from the Killzone 2 intro gone? Was Templar the only person who knew how the guns worked? Job security reasons, perhaps?

Also, those loving Intruders. Who thought those was a good idea (both in-universe and out)?

What kind of weaponry do the cruisers even have, and could they put a dent in those MAWLRs? The way they are described in wikia(s) seem to indicate that its main weapon is the same as what powers the engines? It also states that it can go from combat operations in space to a support role in atmosphere.

I would imagine that, given its support role, it doesn't have much in the way of offensive firepower in that mode.

:shrug:


As for the intruders, those are just worse LCA (Landing Craft, Assault) ships. They aren't stepped in any way, and the railing provides little more than something to hold on to while your vessel performs all kinds of maneuvers.

And its not so much that LCAs and Intruders are both flimsy and vulnerable, but rather that the Intruder offers absolutely no protection to its crew or passengers whether its from the planet or its inhabitants.

VKing
Apr 22, 2008

SelenicMartian posted:

They probably wanted to make something even less functional than the barges from Saving Private Ryan.

Yea at least those couldn't do barrel rolls and loops.


Jobbo_Fett posted:

What kind of weaponry do the cruisers even have, and could they put a dent in those MAWLRs? The way they are described in wikia(s) seem to indicate that its main weapon is the same as what powers the engines? It also states that it can go from combat operations in space to a support role in atmosphere.

They have these giant batteries of high-g, space-battle range missiles, for one.
https://youtu.be/zGy6SEEXcJA?t=119
https://youtu.be/QbZwebZSfYI?t=223
Sure they might be out of missiles at this point, but it still feels absurd that they'd just sit there taking shots. No CIWS guns? No kinds of cannon, nothing that can mess up the lightning projector or its targeting systems or anything?

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

VKing posted:

Yea at least those couldn't do barrel rolls and loops.


They have these giant batteries of high-g, space-battle range missiles, for one.
https://youtu.be/zGy6SEEXcJA?t=119
https://youtu.be/QbZwebZSfYI?t=223
Sure they might be out of missiles at this point, but it still feels absurd that they'd just sit there taking shots. No CIWS guns? No kinds of cannon, nothing that can mess up the lightning projector or its targeting systems or anything?

If they are out of heavy munitions (Or whatever they need for the main weaponry) its doubtful that any secondary weapons would be able to accurately hit anything from the distances between the cruisers and the Helghast weapons.

I can't remember if its sometime in KZ2 or this game but the cruisers do have turrets in order to shoot down/fight back against enemy fighters/small vessels, but none of them are or would be of a large enough caliber to mess with those lightning projectors.

Apep727
Jun 18, 2016

nine-gear crow posted:

But good on you for catching that, it's gonna be important to an extent in the relative future.

I wouldn't exactly call it an impressive deduction. I mean, the camera lingered on the guy for a few seconds - way too long to just be "reaction from random senator."

RE: Orlock v. Stahl on tactics

I want to say that Orlock might be more in the mold of "officer and a gentleman" - there's a proper way to fight a war, and that's head-on, in the open, with both parties fully aware of the other. As much as he intends to wipe out the ISA, he wants to give them a chance to die with some dignity.

Stahl, on the other hand, is all about results. Doesn't matter what methods you use - lies, tricks, nuclear/chemical/bio-weapons - as long as it leads to victory, it's acceptable.

Orlock is the kind of guy who'd punch you in the face if you insult him at a bar; Stahl's the kind who'll follow you into the restroom and bash your head against the wall while your fly's down.

But this is all just based on what we've seen so far, so I could be totally wrong.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!

Apep727 posted:

I wouldn't exactly call it an impressive deduction. I mean, the camera lingered on the guy for a few seconds - way too long to just be "reaction from random senator."

RE: Orlock v. Stahl on tactics

I want to say that Orlock might be more in the mold of "officer and a gentleman" - there's a proper way to fight a war, and that's head-on, in the open, with both parties fully aware of the other. As much as he intends to wipe out the ISA, he wants to give them a chance to die with some dignity.

Stahl, on the other hand, is all about results. Doesn't matter what methods you use - lies, tricks, nuclear/chemical/bio-weapons - as long as it leads to victory, it's acceptable.

Orlock is the kind of guy who'd punch you in the face if you insult him at a bar; Stahl's the kind who'll follow you into the restroom and bash your head against the wall while your fly's down.

But this is all just based on what we've seen so far, so I could be totally wrong.

I get a similar read. They both want the extermination of the ISA in this current situation, but Orlock wants it done in a mostly conventional manner with overwhelming force, and absolutely no negotiation, which sends a certain public image message to everyone. Stahl overtly wants this song and dance over with, efficiently, who gives a poo poo what anyone thinks of it, let's be done and move on to the next stage. But at the same time, the shared smile with the one senator suggests to me that he is already on the next stage of his agenda, the specific handling of the current situation doesn't actually matter to him, and he knows Orlock isn't going to listen so goading Orlock into doubling down may actually be advantageous to whatever's being cooked up next.

Alavaria
Apr 3, 2009

Jobbo_Fett posted:

If they are out of heavy munitions (Or whatever they need for the main weaponry) its doubtful that any secondary weapons would be able to accurately hit anything from the distances between the cruisers and the Helghast weapons.

I can't remember if its sometime in KZ2 or this game but the cruisers do have turrets in order to shoot down/fight back against enemy fighters/small vessels, but none of them are or would be of a large enough caliber to mess with those lightning projectors.
It wouldn't surprise me if they had actually run dry, they seem to have all sorts of problems by this point in the war.

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FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

Alavaria posted:

It wouldn't surprise me if they had actually run dry, they seem to have all sorts of problems by this point in the war.

Like the fact that Rico is :airquote:On their side:airquote:?

  • Locked thread