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I am one of the people who bought this game on PS4 and hasn't beaten the first level. I blame having a huge backlog and having gotten stuck on Tamon's fist level in the original version.
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Feb 18, 2017 16:53
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Pollyanna posted:poo poo, actually, I can kinda see this. Eating the body of the alien, red water that fucks you up signifying its blood, the resurrection being a major component of the legend, the cross, the fish theming, the covert secrecy of the Hanudan religion, it does seem like a bit of a metaphor for the propagation of Catholicism in Japan and subsequent oppression/eradication. I don't know where stable time loops and being turned into bug monsters come into play here, but eh, close enough. The bug monsters don't see themselves/each other as monsters, only unconverted people do. Also the shibito exhibit traits commonly associated with western culture like greed and gluttony.
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Feb 18, 2017 17:00
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Blood Curse is amazing for its conservation and merger of characters. One character become an amalgam of Harumi, Yoriko, Tomoko, and Hisako, which is incredible.
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Feb 18, 2017 18:01
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The homuranagi is explicitly made from the stone of datatushi's ship, which makes it's ability to harm the alien god at least somewhat consistent. Two things I've still never understood after nerding out over this game for like a decade, though: -Why does the homuranagi get powered up by the shrines of the Hanuda families? Is there any relevance to the order of the candles? - What the even gently caress is the Uryen and does the sword/shield have some equation with the fire coming from the air/ground? Earlier someone mentioned that Shiro dies from using it because he's not immortal - except he sort of is, though, since EVERYONE in the alien dimension Hanuda is. Is it a Kajiro blood thing? If so, why didn't Shiro dose himself? I'm pretty sure the shrine thing is mostly 'because videogames' and to make it feel as if the true ending were earned by the player's efforts. The rest I legitimately can't guess but I have enough faith in the director that I hope there's a passing explanation.
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Feb 18, 2017 19:00
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That was a great wrap-up video. Thanks for the LP, SGF.
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Feb 18, 2017 19:01
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It all DID kind of make sense in the end! Even the thread title! Thanks for a great LP, SGF. This is one of those games that is both fascinating to me, and one I'd never actually play.
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Feb 18, 2017 19:05
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Adult Illiteracy posted:-Why does the homuranagi get powered up by the shrines of the Hanuda families? Is there any relevance to the order of the candles? I feel the most likely explanation for the shrines is that they are possibly Shinto/Buddhist shrines, and the Homuranagi is powered up by the native gods to defeat the alien invader god. I forget, were the shrines placed at the cardinal points of the village?
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Feb 18, 2017 19:09
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Flac posted:No you're thinking of the mummy with the stake in it. Miyako was the skeletal corpse looking woman bound to the wall who hands Shiro the uryen in the second objective for the same level the mummy's in. She's like that because she has Kajiro blood, meaning she's not a shibito but she's forced to be immortal in the alien god world, and being stuck to a wall for 27 years won't do favors for your appearance.  I got mixed up, my bad.
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Feb 18, 2017 19:36
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The fact that Siren eventually makes enough sense that you can write off the unexplained parts and inconsistencies as part of the vague unknowable cloud of horror while still getting a satisfying resolution to the mystery is astounding, considering how convoluted some of it is.
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Feb 18, 2017 19:38
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Night10194 posted:The fact that Siren eventually makes enough sense that you can write off the unexplained parts and inconsistencies as part of the vague unknowable cloud of horror while still getting a satisfying resolution to the mystery is astounding, considering how convoluted some of it is. Totally agreed. Honestly, at this point, the weirdest unexplained part is why in the world Kei decided to freeze a towel.
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Feb 18, 2017 19:45
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Thanks for the LP SGF, it was very 100%! I've watched many of your other LP's while waiting for the next episodes of this one, and they're all very good. Its a kind of special dedication and discipline to 100% this kind of game. Good work!
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Feb 18, 2017 20:17
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Pollyanna posted:So, I still don't understand some things. The dimension/reality/underworld/whatever that the village gets pulled into is just an endless sea of red, the village became an island. They became bug monsters to be more like their god, according to the director. Inferno was the paradise that the villagers believed Datatsushi would take them to when he came, presumably this is Datatsushi's home/personal pocket dimension. It's called The Inferno because haha it's more like hell than paradise. It's a bug alien, it can just do alternate dimension poo poo, don't question it. When you watch the cutscene of them eating it, the camera zooms to a top down perspective. The cross is the shape the alien god's body took while laying on the ground. Well, you can assume if failed for similar reasons to now, The Miyako from that time also didn't want to be sacrificed and did something like ours (when she was smashing the altar) to sabotage it. There's actually a short story that says she was in love with Akira's son and the 2 of them got help from a maid (actually Hisako who forgot her purpose). When the ceremony failed because 70's Miyako ran away they tried to get out of the village they realized they couldn't and panicked. 70's Miyako apparently didn't realize she was immune to being a shibito so the 2 of them trapped themselves in the clinic to avoid turning and hurting anyone (the chained up body that gives Shiro the Uryen, and the body with the stake through it). Ultimately it's just one of the many vague things in this game but the red water is either just poo poo that exists in this alternate dimension, or it's the obvious answer and it's Datatsushi's blood. It reacted badly to the sunlight because it was summoned imperfectly. Hisako didn't know Miyako had given Kyoya some of her blood. The point of the ceremonies is to return all the flesh they ate. Since some of that flesh was in Kyoya the summoning failed and he showed up as a weird ghost-thing instead of his real form that he takes in the Inferno. The Uryen statues I'm pretty sure are examples of those weird alien-esque clay idols archaeologists find in real-life Japan. Just like how no one in real-life knows what they were for, no one here knows either. The timeloop is actually a lot more clever if you're more familiar with japanese myths. They point out SEVERAL times in the game that the Mana religion incorporated local mythologies to avoid persecution. So when there was an archive about a silver-haired woman with a box floating down a river it's taken as just another one of those. And in fact there is a japanese story about that exact event. BUT SURPRISE, it's actually the one incorporated myth to actually be relevant. Adult Illiteracy posted:-Why does the homuranagi get powered up by the shrines of the Hanuda families? Is there any relevance to the order of the candles? The 4 faces on the shrines (ox, man, lion, eagle) are common symbols in Christianity and other religions. I assume they were incorporated into the Mana religion like a bunch of other poo poo was, but Reiko praying to them actually called some other spiritual being(s) from an Actual Not A Death Cult Religion. SloppyDoughnuts fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Feb 18, 2017 |
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Feb 18, 2017 20:27
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to me.
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So what exactly was a successful ritual supposed to produce? Because it seems like all the same stuff would've happened anyway once Datatsushi was resurrected.
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Feb 18, 2017 20:47
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Momomo posted:So what exactly was a successful ritual supposed to produce? Because it seems like all the same stuff would've happened anyway once Datatsushi was resurrected. A bigger better shrimp god that couldn't be killed by sunbeams and a student playing at narutos
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Feb 18, 2017 21:29
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One thing I really like is how Harumi's movie where she's standing in the wreckage of Hanuda is almost the perfect mirror of Tamon's movie where we see him as a child as the (presumably) sole survivor of the 1976 accident.Momomo posted:So what exactly was a successful ritual supposed to produce? Because it seems like all the same stuff would've happened anyway once Datatsushi was resurrected. The final perfect form of Datatsushi we see in the final fight was supposed to be what they got if the ritual succeeded. And presumably he would considered Hisako's debt repaid since she gave back her flesh to make up for her eating him way long ago. Probably stop the curse of the village (so no longer would they have to sacrifice a girl to him every generation, and he would take his pocket dimension and shibito and leave so the region would be free to be re-settled without any cults or risk of siren).
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Feb 18, 2017 21:54
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Shoeless posted:The final perfect form of Datatsushi we see in the final fight was supposed to be what they got if the ritual succeeded. And presumably he would considered Hisako's debt repaid since she gave back her flesh to make up for her eating him way long ago. Probably stop the curse of the village (so no longer would they have to sacrifice a girl to him every generation, and he would take his pocket dimension and shibito and leave so the region would be free to be re-settled without any cults or risk of siren). That doesn't really add up, though. Assuming the sacrifice is something that has happened a bunch of times already, wouldn't that imply that even a successful sacrifice doesn't lift the curse? Seems like Miyako somehow found the one way to screw shrimp god over by trapping him in a loop. Hisako's approach clearly wasn't doing the trick. And More fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Feb 18, 2017 |
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Feb 18, 2017 22:18
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And More posted:That doesn't really add up, though. Assuming the sacrifice is something that has happened a bunch of times already, wouldn't that imply that even a successful sacrifice doesn't lift the curse? Seems like Miyako somehow found the one way to screw shrimp god over by trapping him in a loop. Hisako's approach clearly wasn't doing the trick. This was the final one that they needed. IIRC Hisako says something to the effect of this being the last time, and remember how she burns up Miyako's sister, saying they don't need her now? That's cause Miyako being successfully sacrificed was supposed to be the last one (she didn't realize Kyoya had some of her blood at that point), so they didn't need her sister as a backup. Hisako was really hungry back then okay? She was eating for two, maybe went a little overboard with the space fish, so it took over a thousand years of generational sacrifices to finally pay Space God back. Plus you gotta account for interest. Space interest.
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Feb 18, 2017 22:20
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So what is the current state of Miyako anyway? Clearly she's dead but is her spirit trapped in the Inferno or is she haunting Kyoya through his blood?
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Feb 18, 2017 22:55
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Shoeless posted:The final perfect form of Datatsushi we see in the final fight was supposed to be what they got if the ritual succeeded. And presumably he would considered Hisako's debt repaid since she gave back her flesh to make up for her eating him way long ago. Probably stop the curse of the village (so no longer would they have to sacrifice a girl to him every generation, and he would take his pocket dimension and shibito and leave so the region would be free to be re-settled without any cults or risk of siren). Considering Hisako made a whole religion based around showing the Inferno as essentially heaven, it seems more like Datatsushi would've brought them all into the otherworld anyway. Kyoya and Akira's son messing things up might've ended up saving at least some people.
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Feb 18, 2017 23:06
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Awesome LP, SGF. Possibly your best work yet. This is a perfect example of why I watch LPs: I loved this game's visuals, atmosphere, and story, but I think I would have absolutely hated playing it. Also they made that big shrimp look delicious.
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Feb 18, 2017 23:16
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Thanks for the LP SGF, definitely an amazing piece of work on a game I'd never play myself, but which I'm happy not to have missed.
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Feb 18, 2017 23:39
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Momomo posted:Considering Hisako made a whole religion based around showing the Inferno as essentially heaven, it seems more like Datatsushi would've brought them all into the otherworld anyway. Kyoya and Akira's son messing things up might've ended up saving at least some people. Yeah, that's what I meant- all the villagers and everyone in Hanuda would have gotten taken away, but at least then the land would not longer be under Datatsushi's sway/curse and in the future, a new village could potentially be built there. It's a win for humanity overall, the Hanudans are still hosed. Or saved, depending on whether you think they're really enjoying be Shibito.
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Feb 18, 2017 23:56
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Kojiro posted:Harumi can sightjack though and she's 0% shibito? Though she's kinda psychic. Maybe it's just part of that dimension? Miyako and Harumi can sightjack because they have ESP; being psychic appears to be something they bonded over. For the rest, sightjacking is a part of the shibification process and being connected to the shibito hivemind - so in other words they were slowly turning all along. It's a nice creepy touch, the realization that this seemingly helpful gift you've gained is actually sign that you're hosed (unless you get a dose of Kajiro blood, that is).
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Feb 18, 2017 23:57
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Hisako was kind of the big winner here. Instead of dying horribly of starvation she instead got to kick around for like 700 years and instead of dying she has sweet timetravel powers for infinite continues. Sucks for everyone else, as is mostly the case with curses, but not passing on the fish turned into a pretty alright deal for her.
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Feb 19, 2017 00:09
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RoadCrewWorker posted:Hisako was kind of the big winner here. Instead of dying horribly of starvation she instead got to kick around for like 700 years and instead of dying she has sweet timetravel powers for infinite continues. Except she can never win, she's trapped in a time loop after all. The closest to a big winner is Harumi because she's the only one that gets to leave without dying.
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Feb 19, 2017 00:15
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Isn't Kyoya also part of some weird timeloop thingamajig? I remember there being a couple archive items and I think also the promotional website talking about an incident where a young man with a sword and rifle killed thirty-something people in Hanuda. I forgot if that was one of the many rumours surrounding the failed ritual or a separate incident but it'd be a very Siren-esque thing for Kyoya himself being the reason motivating himself to seek out Hanuda.
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Feb 19, 2017 00:15
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grandalt posted:The closest to a big winner is Harumi because she's the only one that gets to leave without dying. And she's (understandably) traumatized by all of this!
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Feb 19, 2017 00:21
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a cartoon duck posted:Isn't Kyoya also part of some weird timeloop thingamajig? I remember there being a couple archive items and I think also the promotional website talking about an incident where a young man with a sword and rifle killed thirty-something people in Hanuda. I forgot if that was one of the many rumours surrounding the failed ritual or a separate incident but it'd be a very Siren-esque thing for Kyoya himself being the reason motivating himself to seek out Hanuda. Yeah, I think it's implied that there's a lot more timeloopery going on. It even helps explain some of the more improbable scenarios and events -- we're seeing successful but unlikely decisions that made everything kind of work out in the end. I don't know how much of it is intended, but it's definitely explored more in Siren 2 and in Blood Curse.
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Feb 19, 2017 00:48
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grandalt posted:Except she can never win, she's trapped in a time loop after all. That entire timetravel mess is besides the point anyway - I'm not talking about the last 3 days in the game's red-ocean dimension: If i get to live for 700 years instead of dying horribly of starvation i'll take that fishmeal deal and happily ask for seconds. By comparison, Naoko's version of that "eternal youth" deal included basically drowning herself in red water, shibitofication and eating garbage on the street for a few hours until she got nuked by Kyoya. Sure, the ending of having your last big day ruined by a kid with a silly katana is a bit of a bummer, but that's really just a footnote in that context.
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Feb 19, 2017 01:05
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What I'm kind of confused by is why Hisako decided to spend her immortality trying to revive him by feeding her descendants to him instead of trying to find another way to lift the immortality curse, like trying to permakill Datatsushi.
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Feb 19, 2017 01:29
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Lareine posted:What I'm kind of confused by is why Hisako decided to spend her immortality trying to revive him by feeding her descendants to him instead of trying to find another way to lift the immortality curse, like trying to permakill Datatsushi. Same reason all those shibito decided to build the nest.
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Feb 19, 2017 02:21
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ZiegeDame posted:Same reason all those shibito decided to build the nest. A desire for self improvement through positive, constructive physical tasks with tangible results? I mean that's why I figure the shibito did it. They're such a good-spirited group of people.
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Feb 19, 2017 02:28
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Edit: Forgot to say, great LP SGF! That last video in particular looked like it was a LOT of work, and really well done. Thanks for everything! Also: can you blame the villagers for eating the space shrimp? He even has "sushi" right in his name; he was asking for it. a cartoon duck posted:Isn't Kyoya also part of some weird timeloop thingamajig? I remember there being a couple archive items and I think also the promotional website talking about an incident where a young man with a sword and rifle killed thirty-something people in Hanuda. I forgot if that was one of the many rumours surrounding the failed ritual or a separate incident but it'd be a very Siren-esque thing for Kyoya himself being the reason motivating himself to seek out Hanuda. flatluigi posted:Yeah, I think it's implied that there's a lot more timeloopery going on. It even helps explain some of the more improbable scenarios and events -- we're seeing successful but unlikely decisions that made everything kind of work out in the end. This is the impression I got as well; the archive item about a kid with a rifle and gun killing a bunch of people seemed like a pretty clear allusion to the ending. Also, Shiro kept saying things like "that's your role, isn't it? To burn it all" or whatever, implying that he already knew what Kyoya was going to do in the future, like it was "foretold"... or already happened. I'd say that all the stuff in the game was happening in a parallel dimension, where in the Shibitoverse it looked like Kyoya was killing a bunch of monster people, but in the real world he just slaughtered a bunch of villagers. In the past. Somehow. Except all the people sucked into the Shibitoverse apparently are written off as "killed in an earthquake", both with the current ritual and the 1976 one. Does anyone know where the Archive item about the kid killing a bunch of villagers was in the LP? I can't remember *when* that was supposed to have happened in the timeline. How did Kyoya get Harumi out of the Shibitoverse? It didn't seem like there was an "Exit" sign anywhere. But yeah, Harumi being the sole survivor of the "earthquake" really does seem to mirror Tamon's story. And Tamon seemed to have a pretty good idea of what was happening in the game, so you have to wonder if he went through a similar ordeal to Harumi. Can someone remind me why Akira had a picture with Tamon in it? Schwartzcough fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 04:22
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Thanks for the LP! I really enjoyed it. Regarding Harumi, I noticed that when she was sightjacking, she had a different animation than everyone else. All the other playable characters that sightjacked just stand with their arms slack, rocking back and forth. Harumi holds her hands up to her head and concentrates, and doesn't do the rocking back and forth thing. I am guessing it's meant to illustrate that Harumi is using some different kind of "technique" to sightjack (having "ESP" instead of being infected with red shrimp blood water.) And, yeah, the parallels to the 1976 massacre and Kyoya's Buster! time are pretty heavy.
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Feb 19, 2017 04:31
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Now that everything is done, can someone write up a summary-timeline of the plot? I gave up trying to keep track of the story halfway through
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Feb 19, 2017 04:37
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Now that everything is done, can someone write up a summary-timeline of the plot? Watch the last video, ya dingus. SGF sums everything up in the timeline.
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Feb 19, 2017 04:45
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XavierGenisi posted:Watch the last video, ya dingus. SGF sums everything up in the timeline. Yeah did you not even watch the last video? Thanks for the awesome LP, SGF. Given your love of older weirder games, I'd really like to see you do Silent Hill 1 sometime, but I'm pretty happy with anything you do.
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Feb 19, 2017 04:53
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Honestly, this whole game is basically Uzumaki. You have the people all getting specialist powers designed to serve the eldrich entity, like the builders, crawlers, spiders and flyers in this and the Whirlwind Kids destroying all the non-rowhouse builldings, and the masses of flesh that eventually joined the row-houses together in Uzumaki. You have the idea of the town being psychically told to build, the nest to protect the alien god and the rowhouses to complete the spiral. You also have the cyclical nature of the narrative, in this a literal time loop, and in Uzumaki it is a repeating pattern: The village gets resettled, rebuilt, the spiral madness spreads once more and the spiral city gets more flesh to crystalise and add to it's mass. Also the inability to leave/be rescued due to hostile environmental features.
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Feb 19, 2017 05:09
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Schwartzcough posted:How did Kyoya get Harumi out of the Shibitoverse? It didn't seem like there was an "Exit" sign anywhere. She was the only character in the game who hadn't been infected by the red water at any point. Presumably, that meant that the other world had little to no claim on her, so all she had to do to leave was just pick a direction and start walking.
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Feb 19, 2017 06:08
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Shoeless posted:A desire for self improvement through positive, constructive physical tasks with tangible results? I mean that's why I figure the shibito did it. They're such a good-spirited group of people. I actually thought, besides the interesting parallels to Christianity in Japan, that it was a mirror of certain types of parasites. There are some that infect other creatures and make them grow strange protrusions, act weird, let themselves get eaten, and I'm sure build weird structures. Some of us in this thread probably have some of them, since apparently there is one that comes with cat ownership leading to loving cats even more. So the original vector was Hisako and she was compelled to build and lure, and the parasite spread.
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