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Shirec posted:I actually thought, besides the interesting parallels to Christianity in Japan, that it was a mirror of certain types of parasites. There are some that infect other creatures and make them grow strange protrusions, act weird, let themselves get eaten, and I'm sure build weird structures. Some of us in this thread probably have some of them, since apparently there is one that comes with cat ownership leading to loving cats even more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuKjBIBBAL8
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Feb 19, 2017 06:50
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XavierGenisi posted:Watch the last video, ya dingus. SGF sums everything up in the timeline. Its two and a half hours, I got other things to do
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Feb 19, 2017 07:51
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Its two and a half hours, I got other things to do Then you don't deserve a summary either, imo.
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Feb 19, 2017 09:07
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So a while back I compiled a list of similarities between this game and the first Silent Hill, since Keiichiro Toyama directed both. I think it's fun to find look for reoccurring motifs in a person's work. It kind of gives you an idea of what makes them tick as a storyteller. Siren and Silent Hill are obviously very different, since one draws inspiration from Japanese folklore and the other from American horror, but there's a lot they share. The list contains some spoilers to Silent Hill but it's an almost 20-year-old game so no spoiler tags. Let me know if this is bad and I should add them. > A handful of outsiders and locals are trapped in a hosed up town/village in an otherworld of some kind. In Silent Hill the town is separated from the rest of the world by a massive bottomless pit, in Siren by the read sea. > A local cult is responsible for loving up said town/village > The cult performs a ritual involving virgin sacrifice (with fire!) > A spooky siren is featured prominently > Foggy daytime levels are contrasted by very dark night levels > Both feature little girls who are alienated from their peers by their psychic powers > A woman who's a prominent figure in the local religion initially appears as an ally of the protagonist but turns out to be a bad guy > There's an rear end in a top hat doctor, and a nurse who's abused/killed by him comes back as a monster > There's an elementary school level in both, with the one in Silent Hill having a Japanese-style layout similar to the one in Siren > There's a hospital level featuring a secret room where someone's imprisoned > Silent Hill has a doppelganger motif, Siren a twin motif > Also the radio that emits static has a cameo in Siren kinda > Both stories are told in an obscure way and you don't know wtf is going on by the end if you're not paying attention (and maybe not even then) > There's probably more that I missed
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Feb 19, 2017 09:09
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The second post was updated with the full summary. Still, you're missing out on SGF's explanations and observations and stuff with the video: This'll jump straight to where the timeline in order starts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTm7A48WYsw&t=5536s though keep in mind this does take about 45 minutes to run through.
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Feb 19, 2017 09:10
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I can't help but laugh every time Yoriko runs through the nest, goofily waving at THE PROFESSAH, until she falls through the floor. It's goofy and endearing as hell and I love it. Thanks for another great LP SGF! I'm looking forward to the next one, whatever it is and whenever it happens!
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Feb 19, 2017 10:03
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I think that it's a cool idea that the "siren" was really the distorted low pitch scream of the Alien God, that still sounded like an air raid strike/ "run for the underground shelters" siren. But why did it seem to repeat periodically and quite punctually then?
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Feb 19, 2017 11:27
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scorpiobean posted:I can't help but laugh every time Yoriko runs through the nest, goofily waving at THE PROFESSAH, until she falls through the floor. It's goofy and endearing as hell and I love it. And then you see it from Tamon's perspective and she sounds like she's shouting into a fan.
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Feb 19, 2017 18:41
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That last scene with Tamon is wierd, it ends like there should be a final Yoriko/Tamon scene to close out the story arc. So in the last scene, with no alien or Hisako, the shibito are just left standing around aimlessly, and Kyoka is sweeping the village to burn and destroy them to put them out of thier misery? Does that mean he'll be stuck in the empty village in the other dimension when he finishes up? I do like that the alien doesn't seem that bothered. It wants Hisako to fix his body in exchange for eating him (what about the other villagers who ate him?) and then just wants to chill in his own pocket dimension. Great LP though.
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Feb 19, 2017 19:09
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quote:The 4 faces on the shrines (ox, man, lion, eagle) are common symbols in Christianity and other religions. I assume they were incorporated into the Mana religion like a bunch of other poo poo was, but Reiko praying to them actually called some other spiritual being(s) from an Actual Not A Death Cult Religion. this notion is somewhat reinforced by the sequel as it more or less confirms there are other gods and beings around siren world (or at the least worlds related to it) in fact, the more I look at datasushi in that final scene he gets the more I get reminded of an enemy type in siren 2
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Feb 19, 2017 20:35
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OldMemes posted:That last scene with Tamon is wierd, it ends like there should be a final Yoriko/Tamon scene to close out the story arc. I would have loved to see that scene from Tamon's perspective. A weird-looking Yoriko busts in to his house, attacks his totally fine alive parents with a baseball bat and then kidnaps him and drags him off to do something terrible to him.
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Feb 19, 2017 21:57
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OldMemes posted:So in the last scene, with no alien or Hisako, the shibito are just left standing around aimlessly, and Kyoka is sweeping the village to burn and destroy them to put them out of thier misery? Does that mean he'll be stuck in the empty village in the other dimension when he finishes up? I do like that the alien doesn't seem that bothered. It wants Hisako to fix his body in exchange for eating him (what about the other villagers who ate him?) and then just wants to chill in his own pocket dimension. Siren 2 has a bonus mission that somewhat addresses what Kyoya has been doing after the end of Siren. And as for the other villagers that ate fishgod (I think his 684 AD body looks more like a maggot than a fish, but eh), the scream of Datatsushi kills them all except Hisako.
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Feb 20, 2017 01:46
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At the end of the day, I think that this is a somewhat interesting game that is completely hindered at almost every step by it's design decisions. I think that they had far too many characters for what they are trying to do, and it only hindered the game as it went on. Particularly, Akira and Naoko could have been completely cut and the game would have essentially been the same. I'm very confused why there is only a vague statement from a file referring to the fact Hisako is immortal, if there was a real immortal priestess lady in this backwoods, cult filled town then she would be worshipped like a goddess and no one either seems to know or care. I think this game also was hindered greatly by the era it came out it. I think that if this game came out today it would ultimately be much, much better. Not just because of higher production values, but because I don't think they would have fallen into a lot of the design traps that they did. You can get away with hamfisting less bad combat into the game in 2017. You can get away with not throwing in two absolutely terrible boss fights in 2017. Not so much when this game came out. Still, this game was pretty interesting to watch. Certainly on of the most unique games I've seen LP'd.
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Feb 20, 2017 12:26
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Paul Zuvella posted:I'm very confused why there is only a vague statement from a file referring to the fact Hisako is immortal, if there was a real immortal priestess lady in this backwoods, cult filled town then she would be worshipped like a goddess and no one either seems to know or care. She very obviously runs the town's religion and they're more than happy to ritually murder their children on her say-so. The town obviously knows she's special, and it's a little reductive to be like "surely these backwoods villagers would worship anything strange as a god."
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Feb 20, 2017 16:39
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Paul Zuvella posted:I think this game also was hindered greatly by the era it came out it. I think that if this game came out today it would ultimately be much, much better. Not just because of higher production values, but because I don't think they would have fallen into a lot of the design traps that they did. You can get away with hamfisting less bad combat into the game in 2017. You can get away with not throwing in two absolutely terrible boss fights in 2017. Not so much when this game came out. Honestly, if it came out today, with its focus on cyclical loops and meta-ness it could have lower production values as an indie title ala Undertale and games like that. Granted, it would still need better mechanics, but high production values I don't think are altogether necessary.
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Feb 20, 2017 16:53
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It was an excellent LP, as always and perhaps even better this time, SGF! Thanks for all the effort you put into this. I really think that the most interesting LPs, even for games that are considered bad/ badly designed or are easy targets for making fun of, are done from people who actually loved the games despite its flaws. Siren, looks very impressive to me, even today. (and so do the early Silent Hill games). And the sight-jacking mechanic is a pretty cool and original idea. I am fairly certain that I wouldn't enjoy playing through the game, myself -- or that I would be able to get far into it. And I wouldn't react well to the random puzzles/objectives and the fuzzy story telling, and the fact that many important details and the depth for the characters comes from outside sources. I do like it when a story has events unfold out of order, but I also do like it if there's some sort of structure and logic behind this (eg what Memento did with its "two" stories is my best example of this, as opposed to the completely randomized pattern here). In any case, it is an interesting story concept overall; even though it mixes aliens, gods, zombies, psychic links, murders, magical items and time loops (and apparently time travel too). I like that its strongest moments and really impact-full and make an impression that sticks with you (eg Tomoko's shibito-fication, Ms Takato's sacrifice, even Shiro's horrible deeds on the twin sisters). Looking forward to the next LP! (I do enjoy the Witness bumbling very much)
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Feb 20, 2017 17:43
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If Tamon is starting to turn, that means Kyoya will have to use the fire on him, right? Leaving pretty much only him and Yorkio stuck in the other dimension.
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Feb 21, 2017 00:26
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OldMemes posted:If Tamon is starting to turn, that means Kyoya will have to use the fire on him, right? Leaving pretty much only him and Yorkio stuck in the other dimension. Unless Yoriko exchanges some of her blood with his. Also he seemed to only be beginning to turn- he hadn't died yet, remember, he'd just been exposed to a lot of red water. Perhaps just being around Yoriko and having some comfort and modicum of safety, someone to talk to, will be enough to help him remain human. That's just speculation on my part though.
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Feb 21, 2017 00:30
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So is there a difference between turning into a true Shibito and "giving in to the call of the Siren"? Seems like the mud people resisted the call (and ended up at the bottom of a lake somehow? I don't get it), and so didn't become "Shibito". But most of the named characters ended up turning into Shibito with no clear "giving in" to anything. But if becoming a Shibito is based on the siren, and the siren came from Mr. Sushi (deceased), maybe Tamon can't become a full Shibito anymore?
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Feb 21, 2017 00:34
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I think the siren mainly signals the time every however often for the shibito to go do their ritual and bathe in the red water. I don't think it directly turns people into shibito, that's exposure to the red water. It seems like you can resist it if you don't sustain sufficient injury to require an overdose of red water, while dying with red water in your system seems to pretty much guarantee that you come back as a shibito. And of course, anyone with Kajiro blood is immune outright.
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Feb 21, 2017 01:28
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Shoeless posted:I think the siren mainly signals the time every however often for the shibito to go do their ritual and bathe in the red water. I don't think it directly turns people into shibito, that's exposure to the red water. It seems like you can resist it if you don't sustain sufficient injury to require an overdose of red water, while dying with red water in your system seems to pretty much guarantee that you come back as a shibito. And of course, anyone with Kajiro blood is immune outright. Well that seems unlikely, as all the mud people were released after Shiro broke the dam and caused a flood of red water. This means that the non-shibito mud people were literally being crushed at the bottom of a lake of red water for decades, but still didn't turn.
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Feb 21, 2017 01:46
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Maybe they chose to stay in the lake and not re-surface; so they became undead due to the red water but still not servants of the alien god. So they were constantly drowning or something, and they rotted/ became mud mutants. (Did Akira drink red water? or the police officer?)
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Feb 21, 2017 01:50
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AbstractNapper posted:Maybe they chose to stay in the lake and not re-surface; so they became undead due to the red water but still not servants of the alien god. So they were constantly drowning or something, and they rotted/ became mud mutants. Akira shot himself, remember? And the officer got rammed by a truck while it was raining red water. It seems like you don't need to drink it, it just has to enter your body through a wound. This would also partly explain why Harumi's levels don't allow you to take even a single hit- not only because she's very young and frail, but because even one would probably give her enough of a cut or scrape that she would be exposed to the red water and then not be able to return to the real world.
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Feb 21, 2017 03:52
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Rewatched the recap and had a thought: Could it be the characters are all aware of the time loop? It could provide some sort of in-lore explanation for replaying levels for second objectives and doing seemingly pointless, weird stuff like freezing towels and flipping up grave marker things. Or it's just a video game and that's a mechanic in the game.
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Feb 21, 2017 05:33
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samu3lk posted:Rewatched the recap and had a thought: Could it be the characters are all aware of the time loop? It could provide some sort of in-lore explanation for replaying levels for second objectives and doing seemingly pointless, weird stuff like freezing towels and flipping up grave marker things. I imagine they're either subconsciously influenced to do the tasks or just looped enough that small variances added up to become those larger outliers. Or both.
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Feb 21, 2017 05:59
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Shoeless posted:Akira shot himself, remember? And the officer got rammed by a truck while it was raining red water.
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Feb 21, 2017 08:42
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I'm really, really confused how Harumi managed to avoid the raining red water.
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Feb 21, 2017 16:35
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She didn't, but Harumi has no wounds in which it can seep. She didn't get hurt once.
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Feb 21, 2017 16:41
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Harumi was never hurt by Shibito. Every other playable character can get damaged by Shibito, and thus, making it easy for the red water to get into their bodies. But Harumi? The game ends if any Shibito get near her, so it means that she never suffered any wounds, so as long as she never drank any of the water, and stayed out of the rain for the most part (she WAS in the abandoned house for a while), then she was safe.
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Feb 21, 2017 16:53
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XavierGenisi posted:Harumi was never hurt by Shibito. Every other playable character can get damaged by Shibito, and thus, making it easy for the red water to get into their bodies. But Harumi? The game ends if any Shibito get near her, so it means that she never suffered any wounds, so as long as she never drank any of the water, and stayed out of the rain for the most part (she WAS in the abandoned house for a while), then she was safe. It's actually a pretty clever and subtle way for the gameplay to reflect the story.
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Feb 21, 2017 16:56
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Jack-Off Lantern posted:She didn't, but Harumi has no wounds in which it can seep. She didn't get hurt once. She also apparently did not ever look up, breath, or open her eyes in a way that would potentially get rain in them!
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Feb 21, 2017 17:02
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Paul Zuvella posted:She also apparently did not ever look up, breath, or open her eyes in a way that would potentially get rain in them! I guess the amount is important. Maybe she rule lawyered Datatsushi like Persephone and has to spend time in Hanuda from now on, like a timeshare? I dunno Jack-Off Lantern fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Feb 21, 2017 |
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Feb 21, 2017 17:05
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samu3lk posted:Rewatched the recap and had a thought: Could it be the characters are all aware of the time loop? It could provide some sort of in-lore explanation for replaying levels for second objectives and doing seemingly pointless, weird stuff like freezing towels and flipping up grave marker things. I don't know if they're aware of the loops, but I figured the secondary missions / replays were because the first time through they couldn't get the "proper" ending. They have to try again (and again and again) until they get everything right and can break the loop by beheading Datatsushi. (Which then traps it and Hisako in their own loop?)
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Feb 21, 2017 17:08
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vortmax posted:(Which then traps it and Hisako in their own loop?) Depending on which scifi version of time travel you're using, yes. The beheading turns their past into their future and they're basically stuck in that 3 days forever while everyone else carries on in a different timeline. It's kind of a weird victory though because it doesn't change any of the horrible poo poo that happened to the village or its people, it just means that Hisako and Buggy Bear aren't there to make things worse going forward.
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Feb 21, 2017 17:12
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Good Job SGF figuring out the Town and adjusting the..... Laser that was astray.
Jack-Off Lantern fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Feb 21, 2017 |
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Feb 21, 2017 17:21
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SPOILERS! I haven't gotten to watch yet poopy head 
The MUMPSorceress fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Feb 21, 2017 |
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Feb 21, 2017 17:28
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cis autodrag posted:SPOILERS! I haven't gotten to watch yet poopy head drat, sorry. Edit.. Fixed it Jack-Off Lantern fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Feb 21, 2017 |
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Feb 21, 2017 17:45
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The loop is only a limited one that affects Hisako and the alien, everyone else can move forward, right? So far as I follow it: Hisako gets the head for the ceremony on day 2 from the river, then gives up her life energy to give the alien a new body, then uses up the last of her energy to pop back to day 2 to float the head back to her younger self. The events only happen once for everyone else, but day 2 and 3 loop for Hisako and the alien's head.
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Feb 21, 2017 20:21
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OldMemes posted:The loop is only a limited one that affects Hisako and the alien, everyone else can move forward, right? So far as I follow it: Hisako gets the head for the ceremony on day 2 from the river, then gives up her life energy to give the alien a new body, then uses up the last of her energy to pop back to day 2 to float the head back to her younger self. The events only happen once for everyone else, but day 2 and 3 loop for Hisako and the alien's head. It kinda depends on how time travel works in this scenario. It technically still happens infinitely for everyone else, it's just parallel universe versions of them and each set only goes through the events once.
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Feb 21, 2017 20:29
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One of the failings with Siren I think is they show you different ways things play out, but all the resolutions are seemingly canonical. We never are shown what would happen to Shiro if Kei didn't wet the towel. We just have to do it because if he didn't he couldn't get an ID that he apparently needed for time to flow correctly. Blood Curse shows the outcome of a failed timeline, which is good in my opinion of you're going to base your gameplay around repeating stages and doing them differently Groundhog Day style. I can't remember if Siren 2 does that or not.
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Feb 21, 2017 22:08
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