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Which Thread Title shall we name this new thread? This poll is closed. |
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| Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce |
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44 | 21.36% |
| ScotPol - Unclustering this gently caress |
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19 | 9.22% |
| Trainspotting 2: Independence is my heroin |
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9 | 4.37% |
| Indyref II: Boris hosed a Dead Country |
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14 | 6.80% |
| ScotPol: Wings over Bullshit |
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8 | 3.88% |
| Independence 2: Cameron Lied, UK Died |
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24 | 11.65% |
| Scotpol IV: I Vow To Flee My Country |
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14 | 6.80% |
| ScotPol - A twice in a generation thread |
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17 | 8.25% |
| ScotPol - Where Everything's hosed Up and the Referendums Don't Matter |
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15 | 7.28% |
| ScotPol Thread: Dependence Referendum Incoming |
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2 | 0.97% |
| Indyref II: The Scottish Insturgeoncy |
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10 | 4.85% |
| ScotPol Thread: Act of European Union |
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5 | 2.43% |
| ScotPol - Like Game of Thrones only we wish we would all die |
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25 | 12.14% |
| Total: | 206 votes | ||
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Pissflaps posted:Well, in Sturgeon's position my focus wouldn't be: Luckily for Scotland, her focus is on setting up a council of experts to advise on the impact of Brexit (that thing that nobody else has bothered planning for), exploring all options on the table post-Brexit with future European partners and confirming that "she would [only] put the [independence] option forward if it emerged as the only or best way to protect Scotland's place in the EU."
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Jun 29, 2016 18:08
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What would it be then? Would you have Sturgeon go immediately for a second referendum, despite the UK parliament being in chaos with an outgoing PM content to toss every issue onto his successor? Until there is a new Prime Minister in place and possibly even a General Election, there is not a ghost of a chance that Sturgeon will get the Section 30 order she needs in order to hold another referendum. So why not look useful in the meantime and look like you are standing up for Scottish interests in the EU? it might all be political pageantry but it serves to convey an image of Sturgeon as a world leader and Scotland as an emerging state.
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Jun 29, 2016 18:08
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Nitrousoxide posted:Article 50 hasn't been invoked yet and there's the possibility of a Scottish veto, until those are initiated and exhausted people will probably still favor the status quo. That Scottish veto is a non starter. There's nothing Holyrood can do that can't be overruled by Westminster. The problem for Scottish nationalists is that if Brexit fails then it's an object lesson on the dangers of leaving political and economic union with your most important trading partner. If it succeeds then the case for leaving the UK to join the `EU is weakened. People will quickly get used to the new status quo, and there is still a sizeable minority who are actually pro-leave in Scotland. It all had to happen far more quickly than this for Brexit to lead seamlessly to independence.
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Jun 29, 2016 18:11
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So you would have tried to hold a referendum on Saturday, got it.
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Jun 29, 2016 18:12
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Leggsy posted:it might all be political pageantry but it serves to convey an image of Sturgeon as a world leader and Scotland as an emerging state. She's been sent home and told they won't talk to her about anything meaningful. It's not done much for her image.
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Jun 29, 2016 18:13
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Pissflaps posted:She's been sent home and told they won't talk to her about anything meaningful. It's not done much for her image. Rubbish, she's done excellently. The EU members as a whole have consistent in being sympathetic but firm that they will only negotiate with member states rather than a constituent nation of one. That fits exactly into the narrative they'll put forward that, while the EU is sympathetic, they can't do anything to help as Scotland is dragged out of the EU against its will by England. Unless, of course, you were an independent country, then we'd be more than happy to discuss things. It's a mutually beneficial narrative for both sides: for the EU they can be respectful and not look like they're interfering in internal UK affairs, while for the SNP it shows that there are no options if you want EU membership other than independence. It also highlights the fact that we can't do these things on our own, even though we are competent enough to do so. Rather than have the Scottish parliament negotiate for us, which has got its poo poo together and agreed on a cross party basis to try and sort this out, we're having to rely on a government with no leader and an opposition that prefers to fight itself rather than propose any solutions. It's a propaganda goldmine for the SNP right now.
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Jun 29, 2016 18:30
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Is Pissflaps the epitome of "British public wrong about very nearly everything" or something?
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Jun 29, 2016 18:33
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Someone with aspirations of being seen as a 'world leader' needs to come home with more than sympathy and some cheap fags. It was just a stunt.
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Jun 29, 2016 18:34
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baronvonsabre posted:It's a mutually beneficial narrative for both sides: for the EU they can be respectful and not look like they're interfering in internal UK affairs, while for the SNP it shows that there are no options if you want EU membership other than independence. This is it in a nutshell. The EU sure as poo poo can't say they're negotiating with a subset of a member state independent of the state itself. It makes the choice as black and white as possible for Scotland, which is ideal.
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Jun 29, 2016 18:38
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Are there people in Scotland who thought the EU would negotiate with Sturgeon? Or allow EU membership of a constituent part of a nation state?
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Jun 29, 2016 18:40
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Pissflaps posted:Someone with aspirations of being seen as a 'world leader' needs to come home with more than sympathy and some cheap fags. It was just a stunt. It doesn't matter if it was a stunt or not. She can't come home with more than that unless Scotland is independent. That's the point that she has just demonstrated to every person in Scotland.
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Jun 29, 2016 18:40
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What's her next trick? Proving water is wet?
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Jun 29, 2016 18:41
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Pissflaps posted:Are there people in Scotland who thought the EU would negotiate with Sturgeon? Or allow EU membership of a constituent part of a nation state? Everyone I know thought it was either a ploy to justify Indyref2 or that she genuinely was trying in a desperate sort of way to see if anything at all could be done or negotiated (but still wanted to build up a case for indyref2). e: but no, no-one thought a special snowflake deal was on the table at any point.
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Jun 29, 2016 18:43
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Pissflaps posted:Are there people in Scotland who thought the EU would negotiate with Sturgeon? Or allow EU membership of a constituent part of a nation state?
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Jun 29, 2016 18:43
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It was obviously a case of her showing everyone that she made a good faith effort to stay in the EU without independence. The EU declared that impossible (which she was probably 99% sure of anyway), so now the SNP is 100% in the clear to pursue plan B and nobody can say any poo poo about "B-b-b-but what if the EU let us stay without leaving the UK?" The referendum just proved how super turbo loving stupid voters are, it pays to make poo poo real loving obvious to everyone.
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Jun 29, 2016 18:45
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A Buttery Pastry posted:GIven recent developments? It'd say definitely. Especially since people were genuinely discussing a 'Reverse Greenland' as a thing that they wanted to happen.
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Jun 29, 2016 18:47
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baronvonsabre posted:Especially since people were genuinely discussing a 'Reverse Greenland' as a thing that they wanted to happen.
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Jun 29, 2016 18:54
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I can just picture that meeting now. Sturgeon walks into the room and asks "Can Scotland remain in the EU while being a member of the UK?" Everyone says "Nope, go and win independence, we'll provide tacit support to gently caress with the Brits", and then they sit around for 30 minutes playing candy crush on their phones.
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Jun 29, 2016 19:18
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Pissflaps posted:It was just a stunt. A stunt that was supported by Scottish Labour, Scottish Greens and Lib Dems (Scottish Tories abstained).
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Jun 29, 2016 19:25
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hookerbot 5000 posted:I know that's not going to happen but the thought of another 6 months of people screaming Liar! and Fearmongerer! at each other fills me with dread. I don't even know what both campaigns are going to be like. The No campaign right now are at a disadvantage thanks to this gently caress up and we don't even know who the hell is going to represent it again as Scottish Labour & Lib Dems are thinking and pondering where to go. UKIP will try and take a turn at but they are eejits and will just bulldoze support for it as an showing example by David Coburn himself. Oh god David Coburn being a part of the no campaign  I'm not sure I'm ready for such comedy.
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Jun 29, 2016 19:37
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Extreme0 posted:Oh god David Coburn being a part of the no campaign That'd be a thing
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Jun 29, 2016 19:40
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What's your agenda here Pissflaps? You agree that Brexit is a bad idea. Why are you now opposed to Scotland getting to remain in the EU? Do you truly believe they'd be better in this sinking ship? You seem keen that Scotland doesn't get away. This is much different that before when the UK was a strong working entity and it made little sense to break it up. Now it's broken anyway. We're going to lose our banks, our few industries and our service sector. We're done. What has Scotland got to lose by jumping ship?
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Jun 29, 2016 19:55
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Regarde Aduck posted:What's your agenda here Pissflaps? You agree that Brexit is a bad idea. Why are you now opposed to Scotland getting to remain in the EU? Do you truly believe they'd be better in this sinking ship? You seem keen that Scotland doesn't get away. This is much different that before when the UK was a strong working entity and it made little sense to break it up. Now it's broken anyway. We're going to lose our banks, our few industries and our service sector. We're done. What has Scotland got to lose by jumping ship? A trading partner (that will soon run out of money to buy anything), of course!
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Jun 29, 2016 19:56
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Extreme0 posted:Don't start up No True Scotsman nonsense poo poo when referring to Posters - It's getting old and right now we don't need it. Some clarification is needed here, due to the subject matter: do you mean the logical fallacy, or has this thread had a problem with people accusing others of being fake Scotsmen?
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Jun 29, 2016 20:07
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Some clarification is needed here, due to the subject matter: do you mean the logical fallacy, or has this thread had a problem with people accusing others of being fake Scotsmen? Both
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Jun 29, 2016 20:09
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Regarde Aduck posted:What's your agenda here Pissflaps? You agree that Brexit is a bad idea. Why are you now opposed to Scotland getting to remain in the EU? Do you truly believe they'd be better in this sinking ship? You seem keen that Scotland doesn't get away. This is much different that before when the UK was a strong working entity and it made little sense to break it up. Now it's broken anyway. We're going to lose our banks, our few industries and our service sector. We're done. What has Scotland got to lose by jumping ship? Try again without the hyperbole. Things will be worse than they would have been, but the sky isn't falling. Brexit demonstrates why breaking union with your most important partners is a bad idea. What's true for the UK is true for Scotland. Nationalism got us into this mess. More nationalism is not the solution.
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Jun 29, 2016 20:09
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Regarde Aduck posted:What's your agenda here Pissflaps? You agree that Brexit is a bad idea. Why are you now opposed to Scotland getting to remain in the EU? Do you truly believe they'd be better in this sinking ship? You seem keen that Scotland doesn't get away. This is much different that before when the UK was a strong working entity and it made little sense to break it up. Now it's broken anyway. We're going to lose our banks, our few industries and our service sector. We're done. What has Scotland got to lose by jumping ship? To make sure his Fanfiction isn't blown to pieces. LORD OF BOOTY posted:Some clarification is needed here, due to the subject matter: do you mean the logical fallacy, or has this thread had a problem with people accusing others of being fake Scotsmen? The latter. A user called Coohoolin has been called "Not scottish" because he wasn't born in Scotland and has moved here and identify himself as Scottish. It lead to nonstop circlejerking over accents/heritage and all sorts that went nowhere. EDIT: I'm going to have to make another GIF of pissflaps being thrown overboard by Scotpol if it goes at this rate.
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Jun 29, 2016 20:09
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Some clarification is needed here, due to the subject matter: do you mean the logical fallacy, or has this thread had a problem with people accusing others of being fake Scotsmen? People have attempted to shut down debate several times by describing others as not being Scottish enough to contribute, though that doesn't happen so much lately.
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Jun 29, 2016 20:10
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:Some clarification is needed here, due to the subject matter: do you mean the logical fallacy, or has this thread had a problem with people accusing others of being fake Scotsmen? It's me, I moved here six years ago and I'm an ardent independence supporter, and that really irks some people.
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Jun 29, 2016 20:14
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Has anyone else come out and say their stance on the matter or is it likely they are not saying anything till article 50 is done?
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Jun 29, 2016 20:15
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Coohoolin posted:It's me, I moved here six years ago and I'm an ardent independence supporter, and that really irks some people. That's really not the problem people have with you.
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Jun 29, 2016 20:16
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www posted:A stunt that was supported by Scottish Labour, Scottish Greens and Lib Dems (Scottish Tories abstained). well it wouldn't be politics if parties in an fptp system got together for anything other than stunts, would it now?
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Jun 29, 2016 21:07
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https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/748153405089132544 Don't knows included would be Agree 61%, Disagree 39% Seems fairly right enough as it matches the results Scotland gave a few days ago. http://tvthek.orf.at/program/ZIB-2/1211/ZIB-2/13117502/Gespraech-mit-dem-schottischen-Politiker-Robertson/13117577 Apparently Germans are actually surprised in how Angus sounds more german then the presenter 
Extreme0 fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 21:15
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Extreme0 posted:http://tvthek.orf.at/program/ZIB-2/1211/ZIB-2/13117502/Gespraech-mit-dem-schottischen-Politiker-Robertson/13117577 Wtf, Did he live in Germany ? He's remarkably fluent
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Jun 29, 2016 21:35
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jre posted:Wtf, Did he live in Germany ? He's remarkably fluent His mother is German so I Imagine that helped.
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Jun 29, 2016 21:37
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Pissflaps posted:Try again without the hyperbole. Secessionism is not nationalism
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Jun 29, 2016 21:48
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I really wish polling companies would ask why people poll the way they do. It loving help tons.dex_sda posted:Secessionism is not nationalism Don't bother trying to explain it to him. It never ends well. Extreme0 fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 21:52
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Like I get what you're saying but the SNP wants to break away from the union (and seems to be edging towards getting popular support for that) so that they can then join an even bigger union. It's plainly an effort to jump a sinking ship. Just cause they have National in the name doesn't make them nationalist. It also helps that the Scottish seem to be the only politiicians who have a loving clue and are attempting to go towards a clean cut, reasonable goal that most of their constituency supports. And that Sturgeon is coming across as the only sane leader in the UK. e; actually that's dismissive of Corbyn but Labour is so unbelievably hosed he can't actually do anything useful but has to deflect a limp dicked coup.
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Jun 29, 2016 22:00
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no you see only Scotland shouldnt be allowed to not be in a political union with their biggest trading partner because.........nationalism?
www fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 22:05
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jre posted:Wtf, Did he live in Germany ? He's remarkably fluent The presenter says at the end he worked as a journalist in Vienna for some years. Fortunately seems to have managed to avoid picking up an Austrian accent though. e: And yeah, I find it hard to fault what Sturgeon has been doing the last few days. She's got the support of all the major Scottish parties other than the Tories for talking to the EU, and she's made it clear to Europe that Scotland considers itself European and painted the country as being unfairly and undemocratically removed from a union it very much wants to be a part of. Her MEPs have done a good job there too. While of course the EU can't come out in support of Scottish independence I think that it's going to help them look sympathetically on Scotland, especially in contrast with the big gently caress you they've just had from England (or the UK if you prefer). Beyond that, it would have been irresponsible of her not to explore all the options for Scotland's relationship with the EU. Scotland voted to remain and she has a responsibility to find out if and how that's possible. That it looks like the only answer for staying in is independence from the UK is politically fortunate for the SNP, but even if that weren't her and her party's goal I'd argue she should have been having these discussions no matter what. big scary monsters fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 22:14
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