Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce

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Which Thread Title shall we name this new thread? This poll is closed.
Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce	44	21.36%
ScotPol - Unclustering this gently caress	19	9.22%
Trainspotting 2: Independence is my heroin	9	4.37%
Indyref II: Boris hosed a Dead Country	14	6.80%
ScotPol: Wings over Bullshit	8	3.88%
Independence 2: Cameron Lied, UK Died	24	11.65%
Scotpol IV: I Vow To Flee My Country	14	6.80%
ScotPol - A twice in a generation thread	17	8.25%
ScotPol - Where Everything's hosed Up and the Referendums Don't Matter	15	7.28%
ScotPol Thread: Dependence Referendum Incoming	2	0.97%
Indyref II: The Scottish Insturgeoncy	10	4.85%
ScotPol Thread: Act of European Union	5	2.43%
ScotPol - Like Game of Thrones only we wish we would all die	25	12.14%
Total:	206 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

Prince John: Jun 20, 2006; Oh, poppycock! Female bandits?

Extreme0 posted:

To be honest what is there to opt-out and rebate now?

The Pound? Pretty much hosed and may get hosed again.

Schengen? It isn't the worst option on the table if the rest of the UK is refusing to go into a single trade market and help the movement of people. Already got people around Europe saying that they are pissed off about this as their friends, lovers and relatives are going to be a lot harder to get too. And we don't know if the UK would also have to take Schengen just to join the single market too.

I mean that's the only two I can think of and I know there is a lot more but there is going to be a lot of things that I think are worth sacrificing just to keep in the EU.

I agree with you on the Schengen point. Presumably it would also have the amusing side effect of forcing England to have the kind of customs border that they've been denying needing for Ireland lest foreigners who haven't had their passports checked step across the border.

It still really wouldn't be in Scotland's interests to adopt the Euro however - the risks aren't currency volatility (which presumably would stabilise in any case in due course) but the setting of a cross-European interest rate. If I was Nicola, and adopting the Euro was non-negotiable, then I would push for some sort of conditionality once it could be demonstrated that Scotland's economy is at the appropriate point in the economic cycle relative to the rest of Europe. It's still not ideal (the Eurozone isn't properly harmonized itself and the cycles themselves may not be in sync) but better than joining on a purely political timetable.

Prince John fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Jun 28, 2016

# ¿ Jun 28, 2016 15:22

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# ¿ May 2, 2024 15:46

Prince John: Jun 20, 2006; Oh, poppycock! Female bandits?

Pissflaps posted:

Surprisingly low.

The SNP has failed to seize the initiative. An unexpectedly dropped ball.

It's not fair to say that the SNP has failed to seize the initiative. Nicola Sturgeon appears to be the only party leader actually trying to forge a path through this mess for her party and country rather than running in circles and/or failing to take responsibility for the vote.

There's no dropped ball - if Scots don't want another referendum then that's their prerogative, but not a reflection on SNP activity post Brexit result.

Edit: Besides taking out the people without opinion, that's a 53:47 result for independence which isn't too shabby compared to the last time round.

Prince John fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Jun 29, 2016

# ¿ Jun 29, 2016 17:56

Prince John: Jun 20, 2006; Oh, poppycock! Female bandits?

Pissflaps posted:

Well, in Sturgeon's position my focus wouldn't be:

Luckily for Scotland, her focus is on setting up a council of experts to advise on the impact of Brexit (that thing that nobody else has bothered planning for), exploring all options on the table post-Brexit with future European partners and confirming that "she would [only] put the [independence] option forward if it emerged as the only or best way to protect Scotland's place in the EU."

# ¿ Jun 29, 2016 18:08

Prince John: Jun 20, 2006; Oh, poppycock! Female bandits?

Niric posted:

While I don't think this is as damning as the Herald wants it to be - using historical papers rather than new analysis isn't itself particularly awful - it definitely smacks of the civil service being given the answer first and told to justify it. 5 days is a ridiculously short amount of time to produce a paper on something like this, and 4 pages to "analyse" a major economic policy is absurd. It also smacks of politicians being blatantly misleading about the strength and quality of the grounds their own argument is based on, but that's a given (see also, "we have taken legal advice")

SNP Government analysis behind 50p tax policy branded a 'fiction'

Agreed.

quote:

A 2012 paper by Her Majesty�s Revenues and Customs was also used as part of the review.

This document , which was in the public domain when the SNP backed a 50p tax policy ahead of the general election, helped the Tory Government justify a cut to the top rate:

�The conclusion that can be drawn from the Self Assessment data is therefore that the underlying yield from the [50p] rate is much lower than originally forecast (yielding around �1 billion or less), and that it is quite possible that it could be negative.�

Patrick Harvie, the Scottish Greens� co-convener, said: �The SNP's reluctance to set progressive tax rates surprised many of their supporters, and if it was based on nothing more than old studies hastily cobbled together, it's really not defensible.

I remember reading this paper when we were debating the original reduction and there's no reason why it would suddenly be obsolete 4 years later.

# ¿ Jul 22, 2016 09:25

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