Scandinavia: I know I shit on Denmark a lot, but I think they deserve it

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Scandinavia: I know I shit on Denmark a lot, but I think they deserve it

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McCloud: Oct 27, 2005

Stolen poo poo from old OP's, with amendments and updates by me. Some of this stuff is no longer relevant or accurate, but I'm lazy and not up to date on scandinavian politics (minus mayyybe Swedens) but since no one else can be arsed to do this I guess you'll have to deal with it, eh?

quote:

Woke up early with a cold and thought I'd begin doing that write-up. Here's the parties currently in parliament and what I think I know about them. Feel free to point out typos and anything you feel is missing or just wrong.

PARTIES IN THE NORWEGIAN PARLIAMENT

H�yre (Conservative Party) - IN GOVERNMENT
Last election result: 26.8% (48 seats)
Number of mayors: 125/428
Identifier: (H)
Ideology: (neo)liberalism, conservatism (also social democracy, but don�t tell anyone)
Leader: Erna Solberg (prime minister)

Second oldest political party in Norway, originally the party of bureaucrats, monarchists and the traditional upper class, today they are pretty much a typical European conservative party with notable neo-liberal tendencies. Everyone expected them to do well in the last election, and in many ways, they did just that, but they could have done a lot better, chalk it up to a very uneven campaign leading up to the election. Their pet issues are lower taxes, increased centralization and education reform (they tend to favor a school with more tests and surveys and such). The typical H�yre-voter is a wealthy, educated person from one of the larger cities or their suburbs.

Fremskrittspartiet (The Progress Party) - IN GOVERNMENT
Last election result: 16.3% (29 seats)
Number of mayors: 11/428
Identifier: (FrP)
Ideology: liberalism, libertarianism, populism, conservatism, anti-immigration, etc
Leader: Siv Jensen (finance minister)

Founded as �Anders Lange�s Party for a strong reduction in taxes, duties and public intervention� by notable egg liqueur swilling, Viking sword-wielding journalist Anders Lange for exactly the purpose spelled out in its name. They have undergone some changes since then, perhaps most notably a name change, and have been most notable for their anti-immigration rethoric (particularly as regards Muslims) in the last two decades. Two elections back they were the second largest party in parliament but have lost a lot of votes to H�yre recently, possibly because their current leader Siv Jensen does not possess nearly as much firebrand outrageousness as former leader Carl I. Hagen or other party personalities such as Per Sandberg (build a wall in Greece to keep out immigrants) and Christian Tybring-Gjedde (rear end in a top hat). They�ve also been remarkably tame in their new minority coalition government with H�yre. Their typical voters are working class and middle class people who are attracted to the promise of reduced immigration and lower taxes and share their anti-elitist bent.

Arbeiderpartiet (The Labor Party)
Last election result: 30.8% (55 seats)
Number of mayors: 155/428
Identifier: (AP)
Ideology: Social democracy (also neo-liberalism)
Leader: Jonas Gahr St�re

Possibly the most influential political party in modern Norwegian history, having had majority governments various times in the post-war years allowed them to shape the country as they saw fit, what Norway is today is inarguably largely their doing. They aren�t quite what they used to be as they haven�t been able to win clear majorities in elections since the �90s and their two-term coalition partnership starting in 2005 with Sp and SV was the first time they ever led a coalition government. I�d say that their new leader Jonas Gahr St�re is the perfect example of what you get when you vote for AP; a competent, reliable, stern statesman with a pragmatist streak and a little bit of charm. In most ways however AP is a center-left party that like most other labor parties in Europe have adopted quite a bit of neo-liberalism in the last two decades, they also remain supporters of Norwegian NATO membership and are usually proponents of increased centralization. Their typical voters are basically anyone not likely to vote for any of the other parties, but immigrants (when they actually vote) are likely to vote for them as are many unionized workers (they have a very close relationship with Norwegian LO).

Venstre (Liberal Party)
Last election result: 5.2% (9 seats)
Number of mayors: 10/428
Identifier: (V)
Ideology: Social liberalism (with a certain libertarian streak), environmentalism
Leader: Trine Skei Grande

Norway�s oldest political party, starting out as the party favoring increased local autonomy and expansion of voting rights. They�ve undergone quite a few changes ever since then, fracturing several times to give birth to splinter parties and are today mostly notable for being almost completely irrelevant. They have been somewhat notable in the past years for their refusal to work with FrP on most issues, they went back on this after the last election, saying that their support of the new minority coalition government would allow the party to implement policies that they favor and such. Their voters are few, and are mostly in the large cities and I believe they are usually young and educated (or students).

Senterpartiet (Center Party)
Last election result: 5.5% (10 seats)
Number of mayors: 94/428
Identifier: (Sp)
Ideology: Centrism, agrarianism, EU-skepticism, nationalism (of the older romanticist bent)
Leader: Trine Skei Grande

Originally known as Bondepartiet (the Farmers� Party), representing the interests of Norwegian farmers, they might also have formed the core of what became Nasjonal Samling (Norway�s Nazi Party before and during WWII, but nevermind that). Their primary issues include keeping Norway as far away from the EU as possible (they mobilized a lot of support when the country voted on whether to join the union or not), keeping the countryside alive and populated, preserving Norwegian agriculture and local industry and killing every last wolf and bear remaining in the country. They haven�t done particularly well in recent elections but they have a staunch core of supporters located in the west and south of the country and are likely to remain kind-of-sorta-relevant, particularly in local politics. Also kind of notorious for being very mercenary in who they will work with to achieve their ends, though recently they had an internal debate about whether to stick with the Red-Greens or seek closer relations to the Blues. Their typical voter is someone employed in agriculture or living far out in the districts.

Kristelig Folkeparti (Christian Democratic Party)
Last election result: 5.6% (10 seats)
Number of mayors: 19/428
Identifier: (Krf)
Ideology: Christian democracy
Leader: Knut Arild Hareide

They�ve been a fixture of Norwegian politics since 1945, particularly due to their consistent support from voters in Norway�s Bible belt, though they aren�t even close to the force they almost were during the �90s under Kjell Magne Bondevik (who was prime minister). Think of them like the typical Christian democrats; they like the social welfare parts of social democracy well enough and are generally in favoring of extending such policies and offering increased aid to developing countries, they have also in the past supported policies that pay women to be stay-at-home moms (though I believe they�ve abandoned that), and are opposed to abortion and same-sex marriage. They like to think of themselves as �non-socialist� rather than �bourgeois� (�borgerlig� is the standard moniker for the Norwegian right-wing). They support the current minority coalition government of H and FrP, initially gaining concessions in the form of introducing measures that would allow doctors to refrain from recommending abortion clinics and such (after this turned out to be very unpopular across the spectrum, they backpedalled). Their voters are Christians from the Bible belt, pure and simple.

Sosialistisk Venstreparti (Socialst Left Party)
Last election result: 4.1% (7 seats)
Number of mayors: 3/428
Identifier: (SV)
Ideology: Socialism, feminism, environmentalism, that whole thing
Leader: Audun Lysbakken

Formed as an offshoot of AP when many members and voters opposed their entry into and support of NATO. SV aims to represent a left-wing alternative to AP. They recently came out of their first ever turn at government and looked poised for a disastrous election, and things didn�t go that well, but they could certainly have been a lot worse. They might be able to pull themselves back up as they have always been the quintessential opposition party, but as for now they will have to deal with less seats in parliament than they�ve had in a long time and losing environmentalist votes to MDG. One of their core issues has been education where they are in direct opposition to H�yre�s vision of the ideal school being one of tests and surveys, they are also one of the most outspoken feminist parties in parliament. Typical voters are educated women, teachers and students.

Milj�partiet De Gr�nne (Green Party)
Last election result: 2.8% (1 seat)
Number of mayors: 0/428
Identifier: (MDG)
Ideology: Green
Leaders/Spokespersons: Hilde Opoku and Rasmus Hansson

The Green movement is kind of a new thing in Norwegian politics, environmentalism has mostly been split between SV and V and the party had no presence in parliament until last year�s election had them gain enough votes in Oslo to gain a single seat. They say that they do not see politics in terms of Red and Blue (that�s left and right), but �Green and Grey�, they want society to be locally self-sufficient and all that stuff, people expect them to co-operate with the Red-Greens in the future, as they already do in Trondheim�s city council. Other than that they are currently just the one guy in parliament, their voters I would guess are mostly the same people who would vote for SV or V but who consider environmentalism to be far more important than other issues those parties represent.

Now Sweden!

The current Swedish parliament is nearing the end of its usual four-year term, and on the second Sunday in September (that is, September 14th) a new parliament will be elected. As usual, elections to the municipal and county assemblies are held at the same time. This thread is for discussing and debating everything related to Swedish politics in general and the elections in general.

Brief introduction to the electoral system
The 349 members of the unicameral parliament (henceforth referred to by its Swedish name, the Riksdag) are all elected at once in a proportional system with 29 constituencies. If you're a maths nerd there are a few quirks to the system that might interest you. A member of parliament is called a riksdagsledamot.

Seats in the riksdag are assigned on a per-party basis, with a minimum of 4% of the votes nationally or 12% in a single constituency required to enter the riksdag. Voters may also (optionally) cast a vote for which candidate of their chosen party they would prefer; at least 5% of the votes in a single constituency are required for a candidate to get elected instead of the party's preferred candidate in this way. The municipal and county elections work in mostly the same way, but the votes are separate for each of the three elections. You can thus vote for a different party in each of them, if you wish.

Once seated, the riksdag elects a prime minister, who chooses his cabinet as he or she wishes. Immediately after the elections there's usually a fair amount of horse-trading among the seated parties - usually, no party gets a significant majority by themselves, so the bigger parties go looking for allies among the smaller ones, promising favors such as cabinet posts in exchange for support for their prime minister candidate. If the opposition is fractured and cannot unite behind a single candidate, your coalition won't need an absolute majority to form a government.

Voter participation tends to be fairly high by global standards. In the 2010 elections, the turnout was 84.63% of the elegible voters, which was the biggest participation since 1994. In the 70's and 80's, however, participation was frequently over 90%; the all time high was 91.76% in 1976.

Parties currently seated in the Riksdag
The sitting government (ruling since the 2014 elections) is a green-socialist-leftist minority coalition, consisting of Socialdemokraterna and Milj�partiet. Usually V�nsterpartiet votes in step with them as well.
Moderaterna, Centerpartiet, Folkpartiet and Kristdemokraterna, which refers to itself as Allians f�r Sverige ("Alliance for Sweden") or just Alliansen ("the Alliance") are the opposition parties. The alliance is headed by AKB, who is the chairman of Moderaterna.

quote:

Benito Hitlerstalin posted:
Parties in Sweden are traditionally divided into two groups; Borgare (literally: �the bourgeoisie�) and Socialists. This only really makes sense in a Swedish context, but whatever.

The parties that are currently seated in the riksdag are, in nominal order from the political right (traditionally the "blue" side) to the political left (the "red" side):

Moderaterna (the moderate party)
Last election result: 30.1% (107 seats)
Identifier: (m)
Ideology: Liberalism, conservatism.
Chairman: Anna Kinberg Batra
Formally Moderata samlingspartiet. Formerly a traditional European conservative party that valued things like low taxes, family values and defense spending, they rebranded themselves as "the new worker's party" in 2005 and won the 2006 elections after forming a four-party coalition with their fellow liberal-conservative parties. Their rethoric is sometimes curiously social-democratic, but they are a solidly neoliberal/conservative party that has been hard at work financing their tax cuts with selling off public assets during their eight years in power. Have used the recent immigration crisis as an excuse to slash entry salaries and/or introduce extra super low income jobs, further exploiting the poor as a cheap source of labour.

quote:

Benito Hitlerstalin posted:
Right wing money-crowd. Former chairman and former Prime Minister of Sweden, Fredrik Reinfeldt, deposed the old guard, pushed the party to the political center and won a bunch of elections. Notable wingmen are Carl Bildt (foreign minister and possible cold war sleeper agent) and Anders Borg (minister of finance, used to have a pony tail but is now completely unremarkable). Got replaced with Batra (or as she's commonly abbreviated to, AKB)Top issues are unemployment, job creation, immigration and FYGM.

Wants: Money.
Voter base: Men, Money.

Liberalerna (the liberal people's party)
Last election result: 7.1% (24 seats)
Identifier: (L)
Ideology: Liberalism, social liberalism.
Chairman: Jan Bj�rklund (minister for education and deputy prime minister)

Historically, these guys have always been liberals in the traditional sense (it's even in their party name). These days though they mainly define themselves by a few issues: most importantly, schools, nuclear power and NATO membership.

quote:

Benito Hitlerstalin posted:
Spent 8 years trying to fix our schools. Actually made them worse, but that's okay, because now, this time, they're actually fixing them, honest. Plus, it was all really the Social Democrats fault anyway, if you think about it. Headed by former military officer Jan Bj�rklund, the party has drifted from vaguely almost-leftist-kinda-social-liberal to right wing liberal. Top issues are schools and education. Also schools. They really care about schools.

Wants: Liberal stuff, like the freedom to choose between 15 different kinds of toothpaste, or what sort of vulture capitalist private school you'd like to sell your children to enroll your children in.
Voter base: Educated men and women. Presumably.

Centerpartiet (the centre party)
Last election result: 6.6% (23 seats)
Identifier: (c)
Ideology: Liberalism, agrarianism, social liberalism, libertarianism, juche, conservatism, fascism, socialism with chinese characteristics, republicanism, anarchism, nationalism.
Chairwoman: Annie L��f (minister for enterprise)

Was known as Bondef�rbundet ("the farmer's league") until 1957 and used to be a staunch ally of the social democrats, but has constantly marched rightwards politically since the 70's. On paper they're some kind of green social-liberal party but their rethoric in recent years has been almost libertarian at times. They really don't cater to the rural population anymore, but rather seem to focus on the economic elite in the cities.

quote:

Benito Hitlerstalin posted:
Formerly agrarian, the Centre Party is now a parody party that will be whatever the gently caress you want it to be, as long as you vote for them. In practice, this manifests as a core of mostly elderly agrarians looking lost and confused as chairman Annie L��f (whose southern dialect barely masks her mental retardation) and crew extolls the virtues of noted great thinker Ayn Rand, polygamy, flat tax or some other hilariously retarded thing. Top issues are whatever you want them to be, plus pigs or something.

Wants: To be put out of their misery.
Voter base: Rural Sweden and Inner City Stockholm.

Kristdemokraterna (the christian democrats)
Last election result: 5.6% (19 seats)
Identifier: (kd)
Ideology: Christian democracy.
Chairman: Ebba Busch Thor

A fairly new (formed 1964, entered parliament 1985) conservative party with the usual Christian moral values. Mostly notable for being the only Swedish parliamental party that opposes gay marriage. Has a solid support from their very small voter base and while they are sort of insignificant they are also unlikely to get voted out of parliament. Tried desperately to make abortion an issue, but thank gently caress they failed. The first political party to steal/copy suggestions policies from SD. Clearly copying the playbook from the christian right in the USA. A hateful bunch of people who hate gays and transpeople and anyone who doesn't go for the monogamous core family patriarchal structure.

quote:

Benito Hitlerstalin posted:
A party of profoundly limited appeal and an unworkable party platform that has somehow clung to the 4% cutoff for ages. Spends most of their time blocking humane legislation and/or making big bucks on substandard privatized health care and/or retirement homes. Chairman G�ran H�gglund is actually witty. Doesn't help him much though, seeing as he's stuck with a hopeless party. Top issues are improving the care of elderly and reducing regulations for private enterprises.

Wants: For god to smite the unbelievers.
Voter base: Practicing christians, Moderates Party members/voters.
[/quote]

Sverigedemokraterna (the Sweden democrats)
Last election result: 5.7% (20 seats)
Identifier: (sd)
Chairman: Jimmie �kesson

A party that used to consist of skinheads and neo-nazi's, these guys cleaned their act, suited up, and are now pretending not to be total racist homophobes, with varied success. Every couple of months some idiot tweets something offensive or gets caught saying something real drat stupid on a forum or facebook or something, and promply gets booted out by Babyface �kesson to maintain their purity.. Was first seated in parliament as a result of the the 2010 elections. As far as European racist parties go they're not quite as bad as some of their cousins, but the rethoric is the usual hate for EU, muslims, beggars and foreigners in general as well as waxing nostalgic for the social democratic golden age. The only party that not surprisingly has constantly worked for stricter immigration laws, arguably wise in hindsight, but for all the wrong reasons.

Milj�partiet (the green party)
Last election result: 7.3% (25 seats)
Identifier: (mp)
Ideology: Green politics, social liberalism.
Spokespersons: Gustav Fridolin and L�vin something

A centrist green party which first entered parliament in 1988. Obviously they're mainly concerned with environmental issues but on the side they have a rather liberal agenda, supporting private schools etc. They also have a reputation for harboring oddballs that believe in chemtrail conspiracies, anti-vaxxers etc. Apparently this party has been very attractive for people with Islamic sympathies, and who had managed to reach top positions within the party, which recently exploded in their collective burqas when it was shown that their housing minister had ties with radical islamic organisations in Turkey, and when another high ranking politician in their party named Yasri Khan refused to shake hands with a woman, and then proceded to bitch about how dehumanising the media attention he got for being a sexist rear end in a top hat was, and lamented that that sure wouldn't have happened if he wasn't a muslim. As if L�ven wouldnt had sparked a shitstorm if he refused to shake hands with a minority/woman.

I'm keeping this bit from the old posterity because LOL

quote:

Benito Hitlerstalin posted:
The bourgeois left, also called. This is what you vote for if you've got leftist sensibilities but also a lot of money/time/live in the big city/whatever. Since they are cool and hip and progressive they've actually got two chairmen, known as spokespersons, instead of just one. One is political prodigy Gustaf Fridolin, a 30-something dude who's something of a veteran despite his relative youth. He is generally viewed as competent, intelligent and charismatic. The other one is �sa Romson. She is a woman. Top issues are the environment, social justice... and some other things probably idk.

�sa Romson suffered from permanent foot in mouth disease and was so politically inept it would be funny if it wasn't sad. And Gustaf Fridolin, who knew that Khan didn't want to touch women, "didn't realise that some people might be offended by this". Political prodigy indeed. That comment perfectly encapsulates the problem with the left,they're outraged about any perceived misogyny or oppression from western culture but they ignore oppressive cultural practices to not seem racist. A trait they share with V. �sa Romson was later deemed so terrible they switched her out with someone who wasn't a walking dumpster fire.

Wants: Peace on earth, sustainable environment, pyramid healing centers, drum circles, etc.
Voter base: Young educated women, islamists

Socialdemokraterna (the social democrats)
Last election result: 30.7% (112 seats)
Identifier: (s)
Ideology: Social democracy, social liberalism.
Chairman: Stefan L�fven

The social democrats ruled Sweden mostly unopposed for decades during the latter half of the 20th century, with only brief interruptions. Occasionally they enjoyed an absolute parliamental majority on their own, but their last election result was their worst since 1920, which has triggered kind of an existential crisis. After switching chairmen three times in a few years their current strategy seems to be to say and do as little as possible in order to avoid rocking the boat. Nobody knows what they want these days.

quote:

Benito Hitlerstalin posted:
Social democratic worker's party. Plagued by internecine conflict ever since former �strong man� G�ran Persson resigned in 2007. Former welder and trade unionist Stefan L�fven has taken a page out of the formers book and made efforts to consolidate his position and keeping the rest of his party in line top priorities. Currently has the left wing of the party under lock and key. Reciprocates by toeing the party line even when it goes against his own convictions. Pissed off at the Moderate Party for stealing their "boring centrist statesmen" schtick. Top issues are unemployment, job creation and equality.

Wants: Power.
Voter base: Unionized blue collar workers.

V�nsterpartiet (the left party)
Last election result: 5.6% (19 seats)
Identifier: (v)
Ideology: Socialism, Feminism.
Chairman: Jonas Sj�stedt

Formerly the communist party; rebranded just the "left" party after the fall of the USSR. They're currently not very radical in their rethoric and are focusing on a single issue: stopping profits in the private-owned parts of public social services.

quote:

Benito Hitlerstalin posted:
Token socialist party. According to popular wisdom the party is made up entirely of queers, foreigners, women and secret communists. This is probably true. Current chairman Jonas Sj�stedts plan, to, essentially, be Social Democrats now that the Social Democrats won't, is paying off, and the party is expected to make some modest gains. Top issues are stopping private profits in the welfare sector and halting further privatizations.

Shares a blind spot with MP when it comes to oppressive cultural practices from foreign cultures. Ostracize their own when they don't turn a blind eye to said cultural practices.
Wants: Mandatory gay marriage and the complete destruction of Swedish society.
Voter base: Social Democrats.

Parties of note outside the parliament

Feministiskt initiativ (the feminist initiative)
Last election result: 5.49% in the European Parliament elections of 2014
Identifier: (fi)
Chairwoman: Gudrun Schyman
A new-ish party focused on feminist issues, peace efforts and social justice in general. They won a major victory in the EU parliament elections this spring and got a seat there, but Their polling results aren't great.

Piratpartiet (the pirate party)
Last election result: 2.23% in the European Parliament elections of 2014
Identifier: (pp)
The original pirate party. Entered the European parliament in the wake of the The Pirate Bay raid and subsequent court case, and then promptly lost their seat in the next election since nobody cared anymore. Their chances of winning a seat in the national parliament are slim to none.

Svenskarnas Parti (party for the Swedes)
Last election result: N/A
Identifier: SvP
Actual honest-to-god nazis. They won't get any national parliament seats but might grab a few municipal seats in a few minor towns. Not really significant but they've been the subject of much political analysis.

Kalle Anka-partiet (the Donald Duck party)
Last election result: they usually get a few hundred votes, sometimes upwards of a thousand
Political platform: free liquor and wider sidewalks
Since blank votes aren't counted separately anymore, you can't vote blank to protest against the system, so people tend to vote for parties like this one instead.

Hot issues
- immigration policy: Still the biggest issue in politics these days, we recently passed stricter migrant laws. It finally dawned on everyone that strong welfare and open borders do not mix well. SD's politics have been stolen/adopted by other parties, either proving the proverb about a racist clock being right twice a day or that SD have a keen insight into immigration politics. The only parties that voted against thee new
- the schools; should the national government take back control from the municipalities?
- environmental issues
- social justice and women's rights
- Healthcare situation is getting worse by the day. Nurses that are understaffed and underpaid, operations being canceled, operating rooms not being used, wards overflowing with patients, ER's full, people with life threatening problems being told to take painkillers etc etc.
-Recent restructering within the police force which was supposed to increase efficency did the absolute opposite. Situation is apparently intolerable for a lot of police officers.
- infrastructure: car traffic is on the decline but we keep building horrifically expensive highways, and making the trains run on time again after the latest round of privatizations seems like a Herculean task

Currently, the polls are looking like the right-wing alliance will lose its government position and the social democrats will come back into power, albeit heavily dependent on the green party and the left party.

This OP is obviously heavily colored by my own opinions, but I'm not picky, so if you want to contribute a party description or something about the political situation
There you have it, post away. Or don't.
Oh also, please keep the posting here in English, since some people might know one Scandinavian language, but not any other. Links and quotes from articles or clips or w/e are of course ok in their original language, just don't go overbord with the bork bork, ja?

# ? Jun 27, 2016 17:03

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 03:14

Retarded Goatee: Feb 6, 2010; I spent so that means I can be a cheapskate and post about posting instead of having some wit or spending any more on comedy avs for people. Which I'm also incapable of. Comedy.

Pre-emptive call for ignoring and/or banning Ligur. How many pages do we manage this time around before this is once more the official d&d shitshow?

# ? Jun 27, 2016 18:43

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

Retarded Goatee posted:

Pre-emptive call for ignoring and/or banning Ligur. How many pages do we manage this time around before this is once more the official d&d shitshow?

I thought Finns were un-Germanic untermenschen not allowed in Scandanavian club to begin with?

# ? Jun 27, 2016 18:56

throw to first DAMN IT: Apr 10, 2007; This whole thread has been raging at the people who don't want Saracen invasion to their homes

Perhaps you too should be more accepting of their cultures

Have you guys considered leaving EU and forming your own Scandic Union with Scotland?

# ? Jun 27, 2016 20:02

Pump it up! Do it!: Oct 3, 2012

Swedish housing bubble is still going strong.

# ? Jun 27, 2016 20:05

Alhazred: Feb 16, 2011

Prominent Norwegian politicians:

Sylvi Listhaug (FrP)

Jonas Gahr St�re (AP)

Erna Solberg (H)

Knut Arild Hareide (KrF)

Jens Stoltenberg (previous leader of AP)

# ? Jun 27, 2016 20:15

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

Puistokemisti posted:

Have you guys considered leaving EU and forming your own Scandic Union with Scotland?

as a Scot i just want to warn you scandis in advance that in the event of scottish independence you guys should prepare for us inviting ourselves to all your nordic parties and assuming that we're all very close friends

we're probably going to try and pronounce your vowels and everything it's going to be painful to watch

e: your countries are pretty cool though, please don't descend into trumpism like the shitshow down south of us is currently trying to do

# ? Jun 27, 2016 20:31

lilljonas: May 6, 2007; We got crabs? We got crabs!

Puistokemisti posted:

Have you guys considered leaving EU and forming your own Scandic Union with Scotland?

f

We actually have various Nordic collaborations besides EU, and given the torrent of social media on the topic this weekend, I think the majority of Swedes at least would welcome Scotland into them.

For example, the Nordic Council of Ministers, which is kind of a tiny EU light.
http://www.norden.org/en/nordic-council-of-ministers

Scotland is basically Norway but dubbed into weird English, right? But Scandinavians in general are supreme suckers for flattery, and will go bananas if a random international celebrity mentions any of our countries. A whole country wanting to be part of our derpy cold club? People are already salivating over the thought.

lilljonas fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jun 27, 2016

# ? Jun 27, 2016 20:32

Nice piece of fish: Jan 29, 2008; Ultra Carp

Puistokemisti posted:

Have you guys considered leaving EU and forming your own Scandic Union with Scotland?

Don't loving tempt me, kompis.

Also the thread needs this in the OP IMMEDIATELY:

:siren:

loving OBLIGATORY FOR READING THIS THREAD :siren:

# ? Jun 27, 2016 20:38

Issaries: Sep 15, 2008; "Negotiations were going well. They were very impressed by my hat." -Issaries the Concilliator"

Ligur is ~~national~~ international treasure and shouldn't be ignored.
Laughed at yes, never ignored

# ? Jun 27, 2016 20:53

Alhazred: Feb 16, 2011

Angepain posted:

as a Scot i just want to warn you scandis in advance that in the event of scottish independence you guys should prepare for us inviting ourselves to all your nordic parties and assuming that we're all very close friends

Considering we allready have oil, gas and disgusting food I don't really see why we need you.

# ? Jun 27, 2016 20:55

Kopijeger: Feb 14, 2010

Alhazred posted:

Prominent Norwegian politicians:
[...]

Jens Stoltenberg (previous leader of AP)

Currently the Secretary General of NATO.

Incidentally, back in 1969 then-Prime Minister Per Borten had some journalists come to his farm for an interview and let himself be photographed like this:

# ? Jun 27, 2016 20:59

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Very timely resurrection of the thread with Swedish police spending an hour recently to figure out if person was Danish or drunk.

# ? Jun 27, 2016 21:47

lilljonas: May 6, 2007; We got crabs? We got crabs!

kalstrams posted:

Very timely resurrection of the thread with Swedish police spending an hour recently to figure out if person was Danish or drunk.

Turned out he was just drunk. Sweden draws a sigh of relief and clamps down with even stricter border inspections.

# ? Jun 27, 2016 22:26

Rappaport: Oct 2, 2013

McCloud posted:

- the schools; should the national government take back control from the municipalities?

My Swedish skills are pretty bad, if some goon would like to write even a small effortpost about what the Hell is going on with school in Sweden, it'd be appreciated

# ? Jun 27, 2016 23:48

Inferior Third Season: Jan 15, 2005

Alhazred posted:

Prominent Norwegian politicians:

The season when Balky Bartokomous moved to Norway was when that show jumped the shark.

# ? Jun 27, 2016 23:56

McCloud: Oct 27, 2005

Kopijeger posted:

Currently the Secretary General of NATO.

Incidentally, back in 1969 then-Prime Minister Per Borten had some journalists come to his farm for an interview and let himself be photographed like this:

Why did anyone think this would be a good idea?

# ? Jun 28, 2016 00:11

Wild Horses: Oct 31, 2012; There's really no meaning in making beetles fight.

Scandipol thread is �teruppst�nden. It was sorely missed

Wild Horses fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Jun 28, 2016

# ? Jun 28, 2016 00:34

Extreme0: Feb 28, 2013; I dance to the sweet tune of your failure so I'm never gonna stop fucking with you.

Continue to get confused and frustrated with me as I dance to your anger.

As I expect nothing more from ya you stupid runt!

Alhazred posted:

Considering we allready have oil, gas and disgusting food I don't really see why we need you.

To gently caress the English further.

# ? Jun 28, 2016 04:37

brylcreem: Oct 29, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

Angepain posted:

as a Scot i just want to warn you scandis in advance that in the event of scottish independence you guys should prepare for us inviting ourselves to all your nordic parties and assuming that we're all very close friends

we're probably going to try and pronounce your vowels and everything it's going to be painful to watch

e: your countries are pretty cool though, please don't descend into trumpism like the shitshow down south of us is currently trying to do

just give me some haggis, and im fine.

# ? Jun 28, 2016 06:52

Kopijeger: Feb 14, 2010

McCloud posted:

Why did anyone think this would be a good idea?

No idea, but apparently Borten would often play up how "folksy" and down-to-earth he was. Another amusing anecdote: A couple of days after the photo was taken, queen Elizabeth II (then on an official visit to our country) and then-king Olav V visited the farm as guests of the Prime Minister. The Daily Mirror ran the photo with the caption "Now the Norwegian Prime Minister is ready to receive the Queen."

# ? Jun 28, 2016 10:07

lilljonas: May 6, 2007; We got crabs? We got crabs!

Rappaport posted:

My Swedish skills are pretty bad, if some goon would like to write even a small effortpost about what the Hell is going on with school in Sweden, it'd be appreciated

Anything specific? I'm working in higher education, so I'm not 100% versed in the history and technicalities of primary and secondary education, but the thing with the municipalities vs national government controlling primary schools took effect in 1991. It was generally unpopular among teachers, and looking back, a lot of people on both sides of the political spectrum (and teachers) agree that the municipalities have been bad at providing an equal primary education across the country.

Basically, the reasoning to give the reins of public primary and secondary education to the municipalities was that decentralization, compared to managing everything from the national government, would give more power local government to adjust education to the wishes of local parents and teachers. This would be done by defining the expected learning outcomes but manage the methods of reaching them less, and by giving the municipalties a blanket funding and then letting them solve the rest. However, one problem was that the learning outcomes were too vague and up to interpretation, and the municipalities got quite a lot of leeway in how to solve the budgeting. But overall, a lot of politicians on both sides agreed that it was a way to go forward, even though the left ended up voting it through.

One result was that municipalities who were responsible for more expensive schools started to cut down the costs, especially as Sweden entered a financial crisis in the early 90's. This had negative effects on schools that had high expenses because, well, their pupils migh need extra support. By losing the national overview and giving reins to local municipilaties to adminster the schools budgets, you opened up the temptation to cover other budget deficiencies through cutting school costs. I went through primary school in late 80's and the 90's, and school budget cut-downs were both noticable and a major talking point. It was not uncommon for us to have textbooks that were more or less falling apart from previous use, something that was unheard of a few years earlier.

Skolverket (the Swedish National Agency for Education) did an evaluation in 2012, and it agreed with the critics in that the municipalities would often think of the national goals (that were supposed to guarantee that education is equivalent across the country) as more of a "lofty, idealistic goal", and would not prioritize school budgets in a way that made sure to achieve them. In practical terms, making primary education a municipality matter meant that areas that put an emphasis on edcuation and used their good schools as a way to market their area (say, academic cities like Lund, or affluent municipalties surrounding the major cities) would secure more funding for their schools, compared to poorer municipalities with populations that were less interested in schooling. Basically, it works as a way to cement inequalities, as you're less likely to get a good education if your surrounding is poor and/or prioritize other things than education.

So now you have a messy situation where Swedish school results are going down (or not, depending on who you ask), something needs to be done (or not, depending on who you ask), and one of those things could be to give back the reins to the national government (or not, depending on who you ask). It's not even a clear ideological division, as parties on both sides are for and against a re-nationalization of the primary and secondary schools. However, it's a bit funny to see that the left, despite driving through the change, is more negative towards it now, and the right having both some of the most ardent supporters of a change (the Liberals) and the most dug-in detractors (the Moderates). It's also a divided subject among researchers and high ranking officials in government and in the unions, though one of the teachers' unions (LRF) are vocal proponents for a re-nationalization.

But yea, tl;dr - it's a mess.

E: no, the funniest thing about this whole issue is Jan Bj�rklund suddenly marketing himself as the white knight of returning public schools to their proper place, under national management. Despite not lifting a finger about it before. Despite being Minister of Education for a remarkable seven years.

But speaking of education, I think that the change in management of public primary and secondary schools won't be a major issue for a while as the debate seems to have died down a bit. Rather, I see a resurgence in the discussion about the shape and form of private schools, as both the subject of how to deal with the religious schools (no matter denomination) and the layer of private schools that are both profitable and underperforming. Those are much more emotional and ideological questions that seems to stir "the masses" in a way that is way, way more appealing to media, and politicians who are interested in raising their profiles through said media.

lilljonas fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Jun 28, 2016

# ? Jun 28, 2016 11:09

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Since no one else is going to do a write-up of Danish political parties, I might as well. In descending order of votes:

The Social Democrats, led by Helle Thorning-Schmidt, have taken a beating in recent years. They are however still the largest party in parliament. Their main ideological plank is getting into power, and being seen around famous people and powerful world leaders. Their main supporters are people hoping the party returns to what it was 30 years ago.

The Danish People's Party needs little introduction, having made their presence known on the European stage as their support has grown. Should the Social Democrats once again fail to address the issues which most worry their electorate, they could easily become the largest party in parliament in the next election. Should this happen, the party promises to subsidize pork consumption, and make its consumption mandatory in schools. The party is also a great supporter of sports and outdoors life, and see it as a way to take unruly kids off the streets and teach them discipline and order, and hopefully win glory and honor for Denmark at international competitions.

A traditional liberal party and the party of farmers, they are for free markets and opposed to government intervention. The main focus of the current government has been to do everything in their power to support Danish farmers, through deregulation and redefining agricultural lands as nature. Whether this is enough to prevent a further loss of voters to the Danish People's Party only time will tell. Chances are, the powerful but increasingly threatened pig-farming lobby will lend their support to the Danish People's Party, as they are ideologically primed to support them no matter the cost.

The Red-Green Alliance is the primary party of left-leaning youths, attracted by the political memes Johanne Schmidt-Nielsen posts straight from parliament and Johanne herself. Has seen strong growth in recent years, due to the failures of traditional left-leaning parties.

A new political party, the Liberal Alliance has been created as a response to the right-wing shift in Danish politics. The party is the main supporter of racial and sexual equality in parliament.

A Danish version of the German Alternative f�r Deutschland, the party is one to watch out for. Their leader was formally a member of the Radical Left, which he was forced to leave after an intra-party struggle over whether the party should continue to be internationalist in the face of unchecked immigration. Wants Denmark to leave the EU and pursue a strong independent Danish state for Danes.

The Radical Left is a traditional Danish communist party, which has lost a lot of support in recent years, especially after the intra-party struggle which created The Alternative. The party has now elected the young Morten �stergaard in an attempt to attract the youth vote and distinguish itself further from The Alternative.

What is there to say? The Socialist People's Party chased the populist vote but couldn't keep up, and now the party is falling apart. Their voters will likely be subsumed into The Alternative as Denmark lurches more and more to the right.

Once upon a time a powerful ally of the near-absolute king, the current party has seen better days. In recent years, the party has attempted to ride the populist wave, but all this has managed to do is shed their traditional supporters in the Whiskey Belt, who would prefer everything to just not change, ever.

# ? Jun 28, 2016 14:15

Geriatric Pirate: Apr 25, 2008; by Nyc_Tattoo

what do you guys think about immigrants?

# ? Jun 28, 2016 14:56

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Geriatric Pirate posted:

what do you guys think about immigrants?

What about them?

# ? Jun 28, 2016 15:00

brylcreem: Oct 29, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

Nice effort post, but it's a little out of date.

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Since no one else is going to do a write-up of Danish political parties, I might as well. In descending order of votes:

The Social Democrats, led by ~~Helle Thorning-Schmidt~~, have taken a beating in recent years. They are however still the largest party in parliament. Their main ideological plank is getting into power, and being seen around famous people and powerful world leaders. Their main supporters are people hoping the party returns to what it was 30 years ago.

Their leader is now Mette Frederiksen, since HTS went to England after her defeat in June of last year.

A Buttery Pastry posted:

The Red-Green Alliance is the primary party of left-leaning youths, attracted by the political memes ~~Johanne Schmidt-Nielsen~~ posts straight from parliament and ~~Johanne~~ herself. Has seen strong growth in recent years, due to the failures of traditional left-leaning parties.

Their leader is now Pernille Skipper. Well, leader is the wrong word since they're all a bunch of hippies, so it's called a "spokesperson" instead.

A Buttery Pastry posted:

What is there to say? The Socialist People's Party chased the populist vote but couldn't keep up, and now the party is falling apart. Their voters will likely be subsumed into The Alternative as Denmark lurches more and more to the right.

# ? Jun 28, 2016 15:29

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

brylcreem posted:

Nice effort post, but it's a little out of date.

So what you're saying is, everything else about my post is 100% correct? :v:

# ? Jun 28, 2016 16:16

Lima: Jun 17, 2012

A Buttery Pastry posted:

So what you're saying is, everything else about my post is 100% correct?

Close enough. Kartoffel kartoffel.

# ? Jun 28, 2016 17:14

doverhog: May 31, 2013; Defender of democracy and human rights 🇺🇦

Don't you mean kamel�sa kamel�sa?

# ? Jun 28, 2016 19:13

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

doverhog posted:

Don't you mean kamelsa kamelsa?

Not in my Scandinavia! :doom:

# ? Jun 28, 2016 19:22

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

I keep hearing that Scandinavia is going further and further right wing as it continues to privatize its publicly owned property and services and cuts down in benefits. Is this true?

# ? Jun 28, 2016 19:30

lilljonas: May 6, 2007; We got crabs? We got crabs!

punk rebel ecks posted:

I keep hearing that Scandinavia is going further and further right wing as it continues to privatize its publicly owned property and services and cuts down in benefits. Is this true?

It is true for Sweden the last two, two and a half decades, at least. Or rather, some common right wing positions are become more "standard", an other common left wing positions are also becoming more "standard", but more so of the former than the latter. The Social Democrats these days are defending positions regarding privatizations that would be considered radical borgeoise propaganda when I was small, and at the same time the right parties generally stopped singularly appealing to wealthy inner city elites.

Basically, the Social Democrats are middle-of-the-road centrists with a few flashes of red now and then. Meanwhile the right parties' general position has shifted to agree that the Swedish Model is good, and should not be torn down into a libertarian Thunderdome, but would be better managed by the right, with changes to benefit employed people.

This is most visible in issues such as public insurance (which got much worse for permanently disabled, and patients with long term illnesses), the changes promoting privatized health care and education, the tax rebates for household work (which was definitely a right-wing agenda that the Social Democrats have accepted), and general tax rebates for income-earners that were kept after the Social Democrats and Greens took over. All these were pushed by the right the last decades, and were initially resisted by the left, but are now still in place despite the change in government.

# ? Jun 28, 2016 19:55

Lima: Jun 17, 2012

lilljonas posted:

It is true for Sweden the last two, two and a half decades, at least.

Same for Denmark except that most parties, SocDem included, would very much like a Libertarian Thunderdome.

# ? Jun 28, 2016 21:11

McCloud: Oct 27, 2005

A Buttery Pastry posted:

The Danish People's Party needs little introduction, having made their presence known on the European stage as their support has grown. Should the Social Democrats once again fail to address the issues which most worry their electorate, they could easily become the largest party in parliament in the next election. Should this happen, the party promises to subsidize pork consumption, and make its consumption mandatory in schools.

OF all the strange things to make an issue out of, they want to subsidize pork and force kids to eat it. If anything they should be forcing kids to eat more vegan food.

# ? Jun 28, 2016 23:59

Noshtane: Nov 22, 2007; The fish itself incites to deeds of hunger

McCloud posted:

OF all the strange things to make an issue out of, they want to subsidize pork and force kids to eat it. If anything they should be forcing kids to eat more vegan food.

Muslims. Add muslims to the mix and it makes sense. A Moustache twirling evil kind of sense.

# ? Jun 29, 2016 00:19

Ali Alkali: Apr 23, 2008

I love talking to middle aged people, who will tell you that there is no discipline in swedish schools, and i will tell them one of the reasons is because we no longer lock "trouble kids"(children with adhd, with a bad home situation) away in a cupboard any more.

# ? Jun 29, 2016 00:48

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

lilljonas posted:

It is true for Sweden the last two, two and a half decades, at least. Or rather, some common right wing positions are become more "standard", an other common left wing positions are also becoming more "standard", but more so of the former than the latter. The Social Democrats these days are defending positions regarding privatizations that would be considered radical borgeoise propaganda when I was small, and at the same time the right parties generally stopped singularly appealing to wealthy inner city elites.

Basically, the Social Democrats are middle-of-the-road centrists with a few flashes of red now and then. Meanwhile the right parties' general position has shifted to agree that the Swedish Model is good, and should not be torn down into a libertarian Thunderdome, but would be better managed by the right, with changes to benefit employed people.

This is most visible in issues such as public insurance (which got much worse for permanently disabled, and patients with long term illnesses), the changes promoting privatized health care and education, the tax rebates for household work (which was definitely a right-wing agenda that the Social Democrats have accepted), and general tax rebates for income-earners that were kept after the Social Democrats and Greens took over. All these were pushed by the right the last decades, and were initially resisted by the left, but are now still in place despite the change in government.

Great post. Thank you.

lilljonas posted:

the tax rebates for household work

What's this mean?

# ? Jun 29, 2016 04:19

Buller: Nov 6, 2010

punk rebel ecks posted:

What's this mean?

If you hire people to do housework like carpentry, cleaning, whatever you can write it off in the taxes.

# ? Jun 29, 2016 09:32

TheFluff: Dec 13, 2006; FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

why did you do this, op :gonk:

Buller posted:

If you hire people to do housework like carpentry, cleaning, whatever you can write it off in the taxes.

It's basically a tax rebate for the rich, with the explanation that it "creates jobs" and "discourages tax evasion". The amount of tax crowns spent per job created in this way is exceptionally high, though.

# ? Jun 29, 2016 19:52

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 03:14

Ligur: Sep 6, 2000; by Lowtax

HEIL \o_

YOU CALLED

I HENFECORTH HAVE ARRIVED

WHAT IS THE TOPIC OF DISCUSSION

# ? Jul 1, 2016 15:11

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Scandinavia: I know I shit on Denmark a lot, but I think they deserve it

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