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Dagbladet is poo poo, but it remains a perfectly adequate source of general news, with no paywall bollocks listhaug has been pissing everyone off for a while for a variety of reasons, most recently by basically saying labour were terrorist sympathisers - this being the same labour party that had dozens of their young murdered in a terrorist attack, it didn't go down well when she stubbornly refused to apologise and only removed the statement when it turned out she didn't have permission to use the picture she used
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Mar 20, 2018 04:02
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currently there is an announced parliamentary majority for no confidence in her, which seems likely to trigger a government ultimatum saying keep her or the coalition gets it the communists who forwarded the motion won't mind this, but the Christian democrats who have the deciding vote here will
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Mar 20, 2018 04:06
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Heinz Hynkel posted:Only one thing. The next loss for the left where it really matters. I am glad for our blue future. I really like to see the autistic left reeeeee and reeeee into nothingness. It will be poo poo either way but I like to see so how do you see this suffering manifesting and brought about please be specific
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Mar 20, 2018 21:15
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Heinz Hynkel posted:Oh, very easy. The left will lose the next election. That is not normal in Norwegian politics but this is not normal times. you see this as suffering because??? like you sound pretty unhinged, you realise, even when you're not supporting your arguments with blatant falsehoods
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Mar 20, 2018 21:18
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Heinz Hynkel posted:What blatant falsehoods? well for instance when you insisted that it was government policy to help refugees learn norwegian despite the government cutting funding for training in the language
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Mar 21, 2018 03:46
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in this very thread, even! one might suspect that you were more interested in hating on dark people than in building a functional, international state which can survive in 2018's clear geopolitical and ideological reality, without gas chambers
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Mar 21, 2018 03:48
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https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/solberg-regjeringen/listhaug-kutter-mer-i-asylnorsk/a/23681147/ this is in may 2016 https://www.abcnyheter.no/nyheter/politikk/2016/06/09/195222000/listhaug-far-ikke-norsk-kutt-pa-asylmottak july same year. didn't pass, fortunately, so https://www.imdi.no/norskopplaring/norskopplaring-for-beboere-i-asylmottak/ this is status. they still get the reduced 175 hours of language training, despite any waffling sanner may have made on the issue the funny thing is, we went through this before itt as i said and since it's trivially easy for me to demonstrate this, as it was then, you must simply have forgotten in your prolonged and blessed absence not really a good sign imo, may want to consult a doctor or psychologist
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Mar 21, 2018 12:06
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on a side note i actually do language training for asylum seekers on a volunteer basis, and it's funny how hardly anyone who shows up to those kinds of practical integration efforts sympathise politically with the likes of hh or disgraced former minister of justice listhaug
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Mar 21, 2018 12:09
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put your money where your mouth is hh if you want you can tell me where you live and i can give you a tip to an activity where you yourself, through personal initiative, can assist in furthering the integration of the recently arrived, mitigating the disastrous policy of our government in this area
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Mar 21, 2018 12:12
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how nice. perhaps you could follow it through with trying to base your political positions on factual information rather than gut instinct and vacuous rhetoric
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Mar 21, 2018 18:48
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well it might function as an integration measure all the same. bit skeptical of using conscription for this kind of thing, though i can certainly see a case for it being an option if we're serious about re-introducing conscription in general (which we're not)
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Mar 21, 2018 19:38
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and yet the government explicitly cuts the amount of training, and tried to cut it further before it was denied this is policy, it has been demonstrated, and it is not something that may be effectively contested because it is an objective matter of public record
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Mar 21, 2018 21:42
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Heinz Hynkel posted:Yes! That is one thing they have in common with AP. Don't you agree? quite, vote sv
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Mar 22, 2018 18:13
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not sure there's much evidence backing that up tbh, sounds an awful lot like hand-wringing to me traditionally, there hasn't been much of an issue administratively with moving things out of the capital in norway - obviously it sucks for the people who are uprooted, but that doesn't mean that the services suffer from it not that this doesn't come up every time someone wants to do something outside of oslo, of course
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May 22, 2018 14:42
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Zudgemud posted:First of all, nobody promotes centralization to increase the value of their property but because for the public it is cheaper (more environmentally friendly too!) and for the individual it is much more convenient in terms of utilities/social service access, job market and social life. lol this has nothing to do with why people get ornery about every state function inevitably being located in the capital again, i have not for my part seen any evidence that locating public services in the capital makes services better, cheaper or more efficient. the reason people want these institutions elsewhere is a) because they're stable, decent jobs and everyone wants those and b) because government is power and it behooves a society to locate power away from where the parliament and central bank are sometimes nobody's saying put the high court in Svalbard, just let's not pretend as though our pathetic capitals are impressive enough to actively prioritise at the expense of the rest of the country
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May 23, 2018 00:34
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would probably be better to actually work on integration rather than just punishing people for not doing something you're not otherwise accommodating imo as you say, most people who work with a language will generally learn it to an acceptable degree fairly quickly, but the conclusion to that premise seems to be some sort of work placement scheme, not denying people information about their health
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May 30, 2018 20:14
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one major issue is that whenever we make incentives for immigrants they seem pig-headedly miserly and punitive. this is not a sound procedure and is only going to further alienate those people to whom it applies, probably at the cost of some unnecessary deaths. it's bad policy for the problem at hand
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May 30, 2018 20:18
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not sure i buy the feckless foreigners narrative tbh social issues are practically never helpfully analysed through individual attributes - again, while there are certainly issues culturally(e.g. high-caste somali women being reluctant to work), 'they don't want to work because they've got it too good' is a really iffy argument which i doubt you can seriously justify also 'immigrants' is a very very vague category, it might be helpful to specify somewhat
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May 30, 2018 21:11
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Cardiac posted:I thought it was the Somali women who worked since the men were high on khat? Somali is btw one of the hardest to integrate where one reason is how many can’t read, something essential to be able to work in Sweden. The numbers for Somalis is really depressing. to an extent i actually agree with this, in that employment of new arrivals should be a priority. this is actively hindered by government policy, at least in norway, where asylum seekers are literally not allowed to get a job before their application has been approved - and, again, the logical conclusion seems to be an increased emphasis on finding people some form of activity, not to make health care basically contingent on already having one use mandatory participation and such, by all means, but our system is set up so people get all stick and no carrot, which is a terrible way to motivate people to contribute to society. one Actually Good Thing about the norwegian system is that the so-called introduction programme is explicitly framed as employment, and participants get a salary, deal with registering work hours &c
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May 31, 2018 10:22
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yeah which is why some form of work placement subsidy is useful in the beginning one wants to get everyone out of their homes and into some form of activity, though, not just the engineers obviously, though, we'd want to make it actually legal for people to make their own money as soon as possible first, which is a really perverse piece of legislation
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May 31, 2018 13:53
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Fox Cunning posted:Civil engineers do 5 years iirc. am technically civil engineer, can confirm 5 years
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May 31, 2018 15:04
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what the devil are you on about
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Jun 1, 2018 22:34
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the post i quoted is at best disingenuous and at worst incoherent, claiming that any position on the circumcision ban arises from whether one hates jews more than one loves muslims which is a really strange thing to say, out of the blue like that
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Jun 2, 2018 10:24
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old school social democracy is legitimately very popular, but it's ideologically unsupportable through contemporary technocratic ideology, which places a lot of stock in marketisation, competition and sees the role of government as essentially providing a framework for the real actors (business, civil society) to prosper rather than act for themselves. add to this the increasing mobility of capital over labour drastically shifting the balance of power upon which social democracy depends, and you have the current predicament. the way out might be corbynite state capitalism, but it's easy to go wrong there, too this view of the state being heavily pushed by the EU doesn't help, of course
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Jun 3, 2018 12:04
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Rnr posted:Good points. However, the first paragraph would be true if economics was the only thing in play here and if parents always valued maximizing income more than spending time with their child. I'm not sure I agree that Denmark is full of families that cannot bear that the husband's income curve takes a slight break in its projected rise because he decides to spend 5 months on leave, which is what happens. The same happens to the woman, which also accounts for some of the existing pay gap in our societies. in norway, the bourgeois government recently returned to mandatory quotas after relaxing them in the name of freedom of choice because hey it's bogus
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Jun 14, 2018 12:53
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guys paternal leave as a mandatory shared business is uncontroversially good, provided the leave is compensated (which it absolutely needs to be) literally the only argument against it apart from freedom-of-choice dogma is the breastfeeding thing, and last i checked the research on that was seriously sketchy (this is years ago at this point, so it may genuinely have changed)
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Jun 16, 2018 03:11
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even taking the argument for granted, it is entirely practical to combine most forms of full-time work with breastfeeding through pumps and reasonable planning we, as individuals, consistently make choices which are rational on an individual scale in the short term but which are awful in the longer term and for the collective. this is one instance if that, and to rectify this we use laws and regulations
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Jun 16, 2018 03:14
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evil_bunnY posted:You try pushing through your peener a marble so big you need stitches after the fact and come back to us. not necessarily 50%, no, but i can see no serious argument against there being a mandatory quota in principle it being inconvenient does by no means imply that it is not practical and i cannot see how it impacts my argument in any serious way
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Jun 16, 2018 11:51
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i would, in fact, be comfortable with positing that structural discrimination in the labour market is equally if not more inconvenient than the arrangements required to ensure that the child is fed through the mother's employment and i am confident that i have literally the entire feminist movement in the country backing me up here
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Jun 16, 2018 11:56
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that is also a way to arrange it! again, my position is shared by pretty much every group calling itself feminist in norway, which i am confident includes at least a couple of mothers the point is, convenience issues re breastfeeding do not constitute a reasonable argument against some form of mandatory quota, even if one accepts as granted that children must absolutely be breast-fed. pumping, in my argument, is one way people can and do solve this problem - and, as you point out, there are other ways. workplaces should of course be expected to accommodate breastfeeding insofar as it is at all possible
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Jun 16, 2018 12:07
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jesus what's with the weird usaklighet going on you'd think arne næss never wrote a thing regulating human behaviour seems to be the literal purpose of laws and regulations, but idk if you're denying the premise of policy as effective as such
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Jun 16, 2018 19:16
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for real though if your leading objection to a political argument is 'you have never been personally subject to this policy and so have no say in the matter', you probably ought to re-evaluate your impulses because lol if only the rich were allowed to discuss estates or fortune tax we'd all be right hosed
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Jun 16, 2018 21:00
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noe du behøver å fortelle?
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Jun 20, 2018 18:18
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Sandweed posted:It's more important to be in power than to have principles. We saw it with SV and Libya and we will probably see it with FrP and this. sv gets a bad rap for libya - they followed the un security council recommendation, foolishly, but they were in a serious bind ideologically
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Jul 3, 2018 22:16
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obviously frp isn't going to do anything about this except whine and shout racisms, though, they have long since realised that they don't actually need to implement much policy
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Jul 3, 2018 22:18
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Wild Horses posted:Swe police is a monolithic bureaucracy that has been allowed to swell itself on idiotic do-nothing desk jobs. iirc this was literally the rationale of the norwegian police reform being rubbished to bits atm
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Jul 17, 2018 23:48
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the migration issue in scandinavia is actually fairly interesting, because it illustrates how the reigning ideologies have shifted curiously, right-wing populism has manifested very differently in the different countries; what they have in common is a refutation of international solidarity being a Thing. this used to mean a hard line against foreign aid, and now means fundamental opposition to the refugee convention of 1951 basically, right-wing populism in scandinavia tends to reflect that we are now, collectively, rich combined with the not-unreasonable observation that nobody ever got richer through sharing. if you're still insecure in some way despite all this collective wealth, that's a fairly potent argument. add to this baseline populism re: common-sense and all the outright racists and you have a winner!
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Jul 28, 2018 11:49
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of course, the issue with refuting international solidarity is that it inevitably extends to a refutation of solidarity as such, which leads to a situation where you've delegitimised the most important ideological tool you have for mobilising in favour of your interests against those of the management, further undermining the scandinavian model, which is the basis for all that collective wealth in the first place! essentially, the right-wing populists have to see foreigners as their main enemies and the nation-state as more-or-less sacrosanct. unsurprisingly, this lends itself really well to racism
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Jul 28, 2018 11:54
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KozmoNaut posted:Most European countries gladly jumped in and whole-heartedly supported the US. i feel as though framing the refugee situation as punishment for 'our' foreign adventures has a strong possibility of backfiring and has conceded some pretty important points
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Jul 28, 2018 11:56
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so e.g sweden is absolved of responsibility re the current mess given their relative lack of colonial history and non-participation in recent adventures? i'm sure the swedish democrats will be pleased to hear it
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Jul 28, 2018 12:10
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