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How low does your self esteem have to be to write a story about how you finished grad school and were doing postdoc work in a technology field and you got a great gig by "dumb luck"? Like... they could have picked the guy cooking fries at McD's or the guy boozing on the street corner or the guy with the graduate degree in an engineering field, and... man, crazy luck, it was you!
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Sep 22, 2016 04:14
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photomikey posted:How low does your self esteem have to be to write a story about how you finished grad school and were doing postdoc work in a technology field and you got a great gig by "dumb luck"? Like... they could have picked the guy cooking fries at McD's or the guy boozing on the street corner or the guy with the graduate degree in an engineering field, and... man, crazy luck, it was you! People make their own luck. Some posters are really downplaying the amount you can influence in your own success. Nothing is guaranteed, but it's not terribly constructive to just throw your hands in the air and imply that dumb luck is all that will matter. This comes off as really discouraging to people that need to stay motivated in tough situations. The more you convince yourself you don't have any control in your success, the less likely you're going to take advantage of any little thing that can help.
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Sep 22, 2016 06:53
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Getting a great job (one that pays above ~$15/hr and has some stability) in most science fields is a lot harder than you think in physical sciences. Funding hasn't improved for well over a decade for anything besides NIH and related foundation work, and the number of graduates is still increasing. Shouldn't you be old enough to remember when NASA was getting 4% of the federal discretionary budget? adorai posted:Your description is spot on for luck simply being the intersection of preparation and opportunity. It wasn't dumb luck -- you were the right person for a unique opportunity that presented itself at the right time. If you had not done what you had done (which is get an education and make an impression on a professor) you would not have the job you got. Also, born U.S. citizen, you can't tell me that is something I have control over, and that was an absolute requirement. I don't really have any control over that. They didn't even want a naturalized citizen since that would imply possible close family relationships with non-U.S. nationals. The Dipshit fucked around with this message at 10:57 on Sep 22, 2016 |
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Sep 22, 2016 10:49
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Claverjoe posted:Also, born U.S. citizen, you can't tell me that is something I have control over, and that was an absolute requirement. I don't really have any control over that. You have a lot of control when it comes to social networking. If you don't do it, you don't have it. If you're getting you're talking to people, you're getting your name out there and then they remember who and what you are. That guy you talk to might play poker with a guy at a company that's looking for someone with your skills and he's going to let him know about you. The more people you know, the better the chance you'll hear about poo poo.
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Sep 22, 2016 16:07
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I think he's just saying that he ended up with a better-than-average job than his colleagues, and that's not necessarily because he was "better" or worked harder than his colleagues with similar backgrounds. It's important to not get mired in "everything is luck, everything good anyone has is due to luck, therefore I shouldn't do anything and just hope to get lucky." On the same note, it's important to not go to the other extreme and think that all the success you've had is just a result of how great you are. Highly successful people tend to over-emphasize their personal part in success. Highly unsuccessful people tend to over-emphasize how unlucky they are. The truth is in the middle.
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Sep 22, 2016 17:31
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Sounds like the difference between self esteem and ego
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Sep 22, 2016 21:02
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folandi posted:I think you really have to just hit loving rock bottom. Like that one moment when you look in the mirror and say holy poo poo dude, what if I die like this. That sounds about right actually. What was your life like at the breaking point? Was there a "moment of clarity", or just the gradual realization that you needed to change drastically? I for one want to read amusing stories and practical advice, since those are more entertaining than a bunch of rambling screeds about our various societal ills. For the record I am a basement dweller myself.
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Oct 14, 2016 05:15
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Imaduck posted:I think he's just saying that he ended up with a better-than-average job than his colleagues, and that's not necessarily because he was "better" or worked harder than his colleagues with similar backgrounds. I remember being in a lecture about investment and fund management that was looking at how different investors succeeded over a period of ten years and how they perceived their own success. At the end, almost none of the entire group actually did better than the passive market average, meaning that their hand picked shares in general performed worse than if they had just invested a tiny amount in every stock and left it for ten years, and their performance was essentially no better than random chance. The interesting/ironic part of it was that some of them had been promoted and developed reputations on the backs of single big successes, while others fell behind, yet taken over the whole ten year period there was really little discrepancy between any of them in terms of overall success. Yet in interviews they all credited their successes to themselves and their failures to poor luck or market conditions, when in reality you could have replaced any one of them with a roulette wheel and chosen where to invest and had pretty much the same results (minus paying for the service, which makes the margins required for beneficial managed funding even slimmer). Jeza fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Oct 14, 2016 |
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Oct 14, 2016 15:07
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Jeza posted:The interesting/ironic part of it was that some of them had been promoted and developed reputations on the backs of single big successes, while others fell behind, yet taken over the whole ten year period there was really little discrepancy between any of them in terms of overall success. Yet in interviews they all credited their successes to themselves and their failures to poor luck or market conditions, when in reality you could have replaced any one of them with a roulette wheel choose where to invest and had pretty much the same results (minus paying for the service, which makes the margins required for beneficial managed funding even slimmer). Spinning that is a crucial skill. Remember, when you're selling yourself, all successes are yours and all failures are collaborative/chance/the weather that day. It's also worth remembering when you're hearing other people talk about their work.
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Oct 14, 2016 16:05
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Tony Montana posted:Why don't you actually write something of substance and have a discussion rather than making allusions and snarky comments like a little bitch? this thread could have been great but i couldn't get past the overwhelming stank of piss and cigarettes i got when i read this guy's posts to get from goon to great you first must stop listening to goons, especially this one
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Nov 12, 2016 09:32
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Imaduck posted:I think he's just saying that he ended up with a better-than-average job than his colleagues, and that's not necessarily because he was "better" or worked harder than his colleagues with similar backgrounds. I feel like there is a lot of hard work and preparation that goes into success, and there is a small element of luck. In my case, I was a waste through my 20's and didn't get my poo poo together until just a few years ago. I languished working poo poo retail jobs while doing school at night but not as seriously as I could have. Took me almost 13 years to finish a 4 year degree this way. I eventually had that moment where I utterly hated everything about myself and decided to do something about it. I started to apply myself and focus my effort. I then got myself that career shift by taking a Unix system administrator position working overnights. I kept working hard and was rapidly getting promoted. Currently I am now a director. The hard work and preparation comes into play in going out and finding these opportunites. Once one presents itself, then being able to make the most out of it. In my case, I believe that luck factored in how rapidly I was promoted. I joined this company at just the right time to ride a wave of explosive growth. This however, would not have happened if I did not put in a lot of hard work on my end.
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Nov 13, 2016 21:03
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1) The price of rent in 2017, jfc 2) I'm pretty sure it costs more for one semester of Villanova tuition in 2017 than all 4 years combined of 70s prices when my dad went there Wages have not caught up with inflation. It sucks Nissin Cup Nudist fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Feb 3, 2017 |
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Feb 3, 2017 06:09
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A generation of people who sucked the teat of public subsidy as hard as they could and then did all in their power to destroy that system calling millenials entilted. 
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Feb 5, 2017 07:53
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There's nothing wrong with living with your parents except for society's arbitrary stigma the idea that you have to live on your own and pay rent or a mortgage is perpetuated by greedy landlords and bankers
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Feb 13, 2017 17:07
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Inter-generational households are actually cool and not bad, but you have to have not lovely family members. That's the rub of it.
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Feb 13, 2017 19:43
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I live with my parents because we don't mind each other and are functional people who respect each other, each others' privacy, etc. I pay rent, but it's nothing crazy at all. There's nothing saying you gotta move out unless you're in a bad situation.
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Feb 17, 2017 23:03
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Turdsdown Tom posted:this thread could have been great but i couldn't get past the overwhelming stank of piss and cigarettes i got when i read this guy's posts He's got a good point though, which others in this thread have echoed (with far less vitriol). The olds and their advice of "do what you love!!!!!!" is a crock of boiled doody. You used to be able to do that, because - as a white, decently-educated person from the suburbs, you could always go get a decent job. Getting jobs that paid quite well (even enough for a house and a car and a family!) was simple. So absolutely - it was fine to spend a few years trying to make it as a guitar player. You could always "sell out" and you'd be out virtually nothing. None of that is true anymore. By all means, study English if that's what you love. Do so with the real and serious understanding that the jobs available to you will likely begin with barista and end with underpaid freelancer. If that's still okay, then do it! But take the advice "do what you love and it'll all work out" with a huge rock of salt... because the safety net of "just get a job" is gone.
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Feb 18, 2017 10:03
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Thursday Next posted:By all means, study English if that's what you love. Do so with the real and serious understanding that the jobs available to you will likely begin with barista and end with underpaid freelancer. This mentality is self defeating. There are literally thousands of jobs you can get with an English degree, and "underpaid freelancer" is not the holy grail of them.
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Feb 19, 2017 15:06
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Thursday Next posted:The olds and their advice of "do what you love!!!!!!" is a crock of boiled doody. You used to be able to do that, because - as a white, decently-educated person from the suburbs, you could always go get a decent job. Getting jobs that paid quite well (even enough for a house and a car and a family!) was simple. So absolutely - it was fine to spend a few years trying to make it as a guitar player. You could always "sell out" and you'd be out virtually nothing. Leave it to Beaver isn't based on a true story or world.
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Feb 20, 2017 16:51
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WampaLord posted:This mentality is self defeating. There are literally thousands of jobs you can get with an English degree, and "underpaid freelancer" is not the holy grail of them. As people always seem to ignore in these kinds of discussions, the vast majority of "degree required/preferred" jobs do not require any specific degree, and so English majors can do them just like everyone else.
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Feb 20, 2017 21:37
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:As people always seem to ignore in these kinds of discussions, the vast majority of "degree required/preferred" jobs do not require any specific degree, and so English majors can do them just like everyone else. Yeah, the real limiting factor to most jobs is the ubiquitous "two years experience required, five years preferred."
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Feb 20, 2017 22:30
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Yes, if you're hell-bent on a career path that is definitely not included in your English degree, you can probably overcome it. Volunteer programs/various national programs are availed for recent college grads (regardless of what their degree was actually in) that can get you experience doing all kinds of stuff. Americorp (which unfortunately, president fuckface is cutting the budget on) offered me, a guy with a degree in environmental science, opportunities to interview for disaster relief organizations, and non-profits that fed school kids. I had no interest in those things, but if I was hell-bent on doing FEMA type stuff, I would've found a way to make it work. Even after President Fuckface gets finished loving millions of Americans over, there are still hundreds of state programs that offer youngin's with degrees opportunities doing stuff. Most of the Western States have a Conservation Corp, which looks really, really good if you're looking for a state/federal job doing environmental stuff in state/national parks. Basically, we're not saying that you shouldn't pursue what you love. But unless what you love is engineering or science, you're really making it difficult for yourself down the road in regards to actually achieving something beyond Dollar Tree Sales Associate. It's not impossible to overcome a degree in Philosophy to do something like Ecology, but you've basically guaranteed that at some point, you're going to have to go back to school for yet another bachelor's degree in something actually useful, which may not be ideal. Hell, I have a degree in the thing I want to do, and I still have to get more schooling down the road at some point.
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Feb 21, 2017 05:10
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A White Guy posted:Yes, if you're hell-bent on a career path that is definitely not included in your English degree, you can probably overcome it. Volunteer programs/various national programs are availed for recent college grads (regardless of what their degree was actually in) that can get you experience doing all kinds of stuff. Americorp (which unfortunately, president fuckface is cutting the budget on) offered me, a guy with a degree in environmental science, opportunities to interview for disaster relief organizations, and non-profits that fed school kids. I had no interest in those things, but if I was hell-bent on doing FEMA type stuff, I would've found a way to make it work. Even after President Fuckface gets finished loving millions of Americans over, there are still hundreds of state programs that offer youngin's with degrees opportunities doing stuff. Most of the Western States have a Conservation Corp, which looks really, really good if you're looking for a state/federal job doing environmental stuff in state/national parks. You're still missing the point. Most career paths aren't included in *any* degree, and yet many of them require *a* degree anyway. An English degree is as good for those as anything else. A fairly small proportion of degree-requiring jobs have strong preferences with regard to major.
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Feb 21, 2017 05:23
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Yep. I'm a trainee accountant at a major global firm, ny degree is in English. Less than half of the other people on the grad scheme have a 'relevant' degree. If you're not getting into something like the sciences which require specific, degree-level base knowledge to even start in, what your degree actually is doesn't matter.
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Feb 21, 2017 09:01
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A White Guy posted:But unless what you love is engineering or science when people say 'you need to study STEM', they mean IT and I wish they would say that and not mislead people into studying other sciences and then finding out there's actually no call for them because this: Azuth0667 posted:Lab tech: Triangle Shirt Factotum posted:Getting a great job (one that pays above ~$15/hr and has some stability) in most science fields is a lot harder than you think in physical sciences
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Feb 21, 2017 16:01
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A clinical lab tech job in a hospital can pay pretty well. Our local Kaiser had quite a few techbros/engineers turned phlebotomists and lab techs. And I'm guessing that with some jobs it's more about the interview because obviously somebody is working those jobs those experience requirements defy space and time.
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Feb 21, 2017 16:39
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After 14 years of living on my own I started crashing in my parents guest room after losing my house and job over the course of one week 7 months ago. I've honestly never been so depressed in my life. I'm working another job but the pay isn't very good and I literally can't afford a place now because rent has more than doubled in the last few years here. Apt hunting (even finding a roommate) has proved just completely defeating beyond anything I have ever seen because of all these loving transplants that won't stop moving here. I seriously want to leave. I just got back from Tampa and I kind of just want to move there. Cheaper rent and I like the climate and I want to live near water instead of being landlocked. Then again I have no job out there, the only people I know are my in laws (my bros wife) who I just met but they are really cool, it's not like I'm close with them or anything, and honestly I don't like the idea of being that far away from my family. I am pretty close with them for the first time in my life and my parents aren't getting any younger. Really have no idea what to do but I think my mental health and ego is going to completely erode into nothing if I stay in this situation much longer. I really don't know how to get the ball rolling right now. To top it all off I had one year left in my bachelors "took a short break" and managed to get myself into default on my student loans so I hosed myself there too because I'm an idiot. Edit: lol sorry for the E/N as gently caress post I just randomly ran into this thread and it rang a little close to home. veni veni veni fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Feb 21, 2017 |
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Feb 21, 2017 19:11
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veni veni veni posted:After 14 years of living on my own I started crashing in my parents guest room after losing my house and job over the course of one week 7 months ago. I've honestly never been so depressed in my life. I'm working another job but the pay isn't very good and I literally can't afford a place now because rent has more than doubled in the last few years here. Apt hunting (even finding a roommate) has proved just completely defeating beyond anything I have ever seen because of all these loving transplants that won't stop moving here. Have you looked into HUD and food stamps? I know some people refuse to because of pride and crap.
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Feb 21, 2017 20:58
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:You're still missing the point. Most career paths aren't included in *any* degree, and yet many of them require *a* degree anyway. An English degree is as good for those as anything else. A fairly small proportion of degree-requiring jobs have strong preferences with regard to major. Nobody is saying that you can't get a great job with an English degree. What we're saying is that your pathway to that great job is probably going to be a lot harder. You can't just say "oh I have a college degree, I'll take my $70k/year please." Instead, you're probably going to have to spend many years moving from job to job, trying to distinguish yourself, trying to pick up new skills, trying to find a good in to a higher role, and really grind your way up. You might have to go back to school. You might have to luck into connections that happen to have the right opportunity for you at the right time. You're probably going to spend many years being relatively poor. You might not ever make it. Or you can get a degree in a high demand field like Computer Science and be offered a good, high-paying job a year before you graduate. I'm not saying that that pathway is easier, or that it's for everyone, but it's just not the same thing as getting a Philosophy degree. I also kind of take issue with you saying there are lots of jobs out there that require just any degree. We're talking in generalities here, but I think that's becoming less and less true, and more and more jobs are going back to "a degree or 4 years experience." Even jobs that say they require a degree will often hire someone who can demonstrate the skills they need without the degree.
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Feb 21, 2017 21:46
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Imaduck posted:I think a lot of the pushback you're getting here is coming from a generation that repeatedly got the advice "it doesn't matter what you major in; all you need is any college degree and there will be tons of good, well-paying jobs for you on the other side!" Lots of people my age were told this, and it's just not true. There are certain degrees that have a track record of high placement in well-paying jobs, and then there are the other degrees. You seem to be imagining a lot of things no-one has actually said here. No-one is saying that the job market for college grads is all sunshine and rainbows (but it's way better than the job market for high school grads!). No-one is saying that people with, say, CS degrees don't make a good bit more on average (if you're interested in and capable of studying both CS and English, you may well want to choose the former!) That does not change the fact that a) most people with BAs will not work a job that "needs" their major in any strong sense and b) they make significantly more money on average than people without BAs nonetheless.
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Feb 22, 2017 08:10
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People with a BA in the humanities often have more transferable skills.
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Feb 22, 2017 08:16
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failing forward posted:People with a BA in the humanities often have more transferable skills. Anyone that does a resume class or their own research can find how to turn most skills into something transferable.
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Feb 22, 2017 17:18
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:(if you're interested in and capable of studying both CS and English, you may well want to choose the former!) This was actually me. Boy, was I lucky that I randomly picked CS because I thought it would "challenge" me more! Because I didn't get any guidance that it was a better choice at all.
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Feb 22, 2017 20:21
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Imaduck posted:I think a lot of the pushback you're getting here is coming from a generation that repeatedly got the advice "it doesn't matter what you major in; all you need is any college degree and there will be tons of good, well-paying jobs for you on the other side!" Lots of people my age were told this, and it's just not true. There are certain degrees that have a track record of high placement in well-paying jobs, and then there are the other degrees. Completely agree with this post. I was told by my parents that it doesn't matter what degree you get, because most jobs just want a BA! My goon to great story - took a BA in Jazz Guitar and applied for the only jobs which didn't care what your degree was in - admin assistant positions. Didn't get a single call back over a year. Went back to college for computer programming. It's just a 2 year diploma course. I finish in 2 months and I already got hired a month ago. Will be moving out of the basement in about 5 months! Moral of the story didn't study jazz guitar study computer science if you want a job
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Mar 2, 2017 07:47
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Ornithology posted:Moral of the story didn't study jazz guitar study computer science if you want a job That's the secret - for now. That way of thinking also led to a glut of lawyers a few years back. Probably good odds for someone picking their degree right now, assuming they have decent aptitude for code and don't hate the thought of being in a cubicle making for-loops for the next 50 years.
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Mar 2, 2017 17:28
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I lived with my parents on and off for a few years after college, and just moved out again recently after getting a job and saving up enough money for about ~5 months of expenses. I just quit my job because my lovely boss (also a millennial!) and have been going through a bit of an emotional roller coaster that hits on posts all through the thread. My general advice is that life is not a race or competition, despite everything and everyone telling you otherwise. There is no 'track' - you don't have to be making X amount of money, own a house, have a certain degree, or be married by a certain age. Don't compare yourself and your life to other people, because their life isn't yours. It's especially important not to judge your internal feelings about yourself based on their outwards appearances (this is hard with social media, but remember social media is a carefully curate illusion made to make you feel bad and click on ads to buy stuff). My more specific advice is to actively cultivate a network of people in your community you can reach out to. Build your social capital. It's hard work and can be annoying, disheartening and expensive, but having good people in your life is really the best and most important thing. I know this is hard in less populated areas or for people who aren't terribly good at socializing or have lovely family members, but there are resources out there that can offer better advice than me on that.
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Mar 2, 2017 17:42
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I used to be a shut in goon that played warcraft 3 every day all day in my parents basement, i ended up dropping out of high school due to never going to class. Had basically no friends except my online ones and terrible social skills due to being surrounded by goon types myself. When i was 17 i left my parents house and applied to a university with the high school credits i did have, ended up being accepted into a pretty good commerce program. From there i started hustling hard, worked 2 jobs my entire way through school that involved talking to people 6 hours a day and read social skills books and articles to improve my ability to talk to people. I enrolled in the co-op program at my school and ended up landing a student job at a well known firm in my city. That first job allowed me to build up a network of business contacts that has led to every job I have ever had since. At the same time, I got really involved in student clubs and volunteering which allowed me to get noticed by both my employer and other employers in my mid-size (1 million population) city. Now i'm 23 and make six figures a year working in policy development for the government - a position I got through making contacts in volunteer work combined with work experience and freelance research work that have gained me a reputation in my field. Basically the most important thing for me has been building social capital and making connections and references that have helped me out over the years. I found that no one would give me anything unless i asked for it, and I had to sell myself a lot (with a lot of failures and missteps along the way). I had lovely grades but made up for it with hustle i guess is what i'm trying to say. Anyways it was really hard and still is but not having any safety net really motivated me. Oh yeah also i have a ton of student and credit card debt, smoke lots of cigarettes and spend like $1000 a month on various drugs. Also i am majorly depressed and have anxiety issues. Working on this other stuff though. camgirl fangirl fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Mar 3, 2017 |
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Mar 3, 2017 08:45
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BarbarianElephant posted:That's the secret - for now. That way of thinking also led to a glut of lawyers a few years back. Probably good odds for someone picking their degree right now, assuming they have decent aptitude for code and don't hate the thought of being in a cubicle making for-loops for the next 50 years. Open floor plans are actually much worse than cubicles. Give me a cube. Also, the fact that I have a strong opinion about office floor plans hurts my soul a little. I usually hate self-help books, but I've been reading the book The Subtle Art of Not Giving a gently caress and it's pretty good. It presents an interesting perspective about why a lot of people whose lives look great on paper feel lovely about their lives and why a lot of folks with relatively shittier lives feel pretty good. It's great if you're trying to figure out what your goals should be if you actually want to feel good about what you're doing and where you're going in life.
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Mar 3, 2017 21:16
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Imaduck posted:I usually hate self-help books, but I've been reading the book The Subtle Art of Not Giving a gently caress and it's pretty good. It presents an interesting perspective about why a lot of people whose lives look great on paper feel lovely about their lives and why a lot of folks with relatively shittier lives feel pretty good. It's great if you're trying to figure out what your goals should be if you actually want to feel good about what you're doing and where you're going in life. quote:For decades, we’ve been told that positive thinking is the key to a happy, rich life. "F**k positivity," Mark Manson says. "Let’s be honest, poo poo is f**ked and we have to live with it." In his wildly popular Internet blog, Manson doesn’t sugarcoat or equivocate. He tells it like it is—a dose of raw, refreshing, honest truth that is sorely lacking today. The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F**k is his antidote to the coddling, let’s-all-feel-good mindset that has infected American society and spoiled a generation, rewarding them with gold medals just for showing up. I already want to hurl a brick at this idiot's head.
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Mar 3, 2017 21:19
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Oxxidation posted:I already want to hurl a brick at this idiot's head. He's not making it up. I remember seeing that change through schools when my kids went.
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Mar 3, 2017 21:20
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