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S.J. posted:Especially since, for whatever reason, critical effects aren't optional anymore. Which really sucks for heavies with crit slam and stuff like that. I really need to go buy the new cards already.  Tias posted:Hey you guys. I'm probably going to dust off my Khador mans and get back in on the wrecked steel game xiw posted:No problem: http://conflictchamber.com/#bb1b5E3E3E3E3E3E3E3E3E3E3E3E3E3E3E3E3E3E3E3E3Ed2
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Jun 30, 2016 13:34
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Trashcan posted:Hot take: I think the Circle Satyr beasts are interesting options in MK 3. In particular, I think you nerds are wrong about the Shadowhorn; in MK 3 it got three interesting buffs: Back strike changes and cost reduction should help, though, and the fury reduction doesn't hurt the Shadowhorn's primary purpose although it does mean that even Primal'd it's useless as a beater. As for the other two satyrs, they were overcosted in Mk2 and got a lot of nerfs, so I don't see them being worth it now despite their lower cost. I have no play experience to back that up, though, and the Rip Horn at least looks like a reasonably functional heavy for its small point and fury footprint. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Jul 4, 2016 |
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Jul 4, 2016 00:16
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I don't play Khador so take this with a grain of salt, but the Behemoth is possibly the best jack in the game right now. Its subcortex rule just gives it powerful attack on the bombards now, and it got cheaper. Apart from that I've been seeing Kodiaks, Juggernauts and Torch a lot. Winter Guard Infantry is apparently kinda poo poo now but the Rifle Corps is good and can take rockets. Iron Fangs are great and MoW Shocktroopers look playable at least. I've only seen them on the table once, though. Aiyana & Holt suck now (Kiss is friendly Faction now, but in Khador they might still be needed to hand out magic weapons I guess?) and the Spriggan fell behind by standing still. I think those might be the biggest losers in Khador alongside WGI. And I think the casters generally didn't change much but got a few targeted buffs. There are exceptions - Zerkova got overhauled apparently (I have no idea what she had in Mk2 just that whatever it was sucked) and Strakhov is insane now. Anyway, Freezing Grip costs 1 less focus now, afaik that's all that changed about Sorscha. No idea what they did with Butcher2, just that Homicidal Maniac changed a lot somehow. Oh, and Iron Flesh is an ARM buff now. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Jul 4, 2016 |
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Jul 4, 2016 00:57
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Re: Helynna, would she be a good caster to pair with Kaelyssa? To me it looks like this should work, since Helynna can do something about high DEF & ARM, which Kaelyssa might have problems with. And even though she likes jacks with good guns she should be able to run a list that isn't too bothered by anti-ranged tech. But then again I still haven't gotten around to playing a game with Ret, so what do I know?
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Jul 4, 2016 01:35
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gannyGrabber posted:The only dissapointment for me these days as khador is that torch does what spriggan does, for the same cost, and also other things. Naturally I own spriggan and no torch. LordAba posted:They somehow written Exemplar Bastions Sanguine Bond ability worse as well. I'm pretty sure I know what they intend, but the way that it is written if you have 1 model take 5 damage you can choose to pass one point of damage to one model and only end up taking 1 point of damage. I'm guessing this isn't intended? 
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Jul 4, 2016 17:15
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GoodBee posted:I tried reading Sanguine Bond to get this result and I can't do it. I can see how you can misunderstand it this way but that doesn't make it RAW. When this model would suffer damage from an enemy attack while in formation, you can choose one or more models in its unit within 3˝ of it to suffer any amount of that damage instead, divided as you choose. If you do, this model does not suffer that damage. A model cannot suffer more damage as a result of Sanguine Bond than it has unmarked damage boxes. Could have been avoided with cleaner language than calling what's clearly intended to be first the damage total and then the shunted damage both "that damage", but as it is it's an easy case to make. One that nobody is going to take seriously, of course, but still.
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Jul 4, 2016 17:28
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I wasn't around for the field test, but no matter how bad it was, running an apparently completely internal playtest shouldn't have been their answer to that.GEMorris posted:I think the legit critique of pp right now is they are acting like baby primadonna designers who can't ever admit fault. They started the narrative of "three years of playtesting" and are so committed to it they can't own up to their obvious mistakes. And considering how small the playtesting team apparently was and how much they had to try and balance, I can totally believe they spent 3 years on that. I mean, some of the dumb poo poo that they didn't catch is straight up embarassing, like Cleave/Death Toll and Knockdown/Gang, or Soles saying that giving the Blood Pack Assault instead of Assault & Battery is a buff. But overall I can't even blame the people that playtested the rules, just whoever thought that a few people could run a playtest for hundreds of models in a complex game like this, with no outside input over several years, all on the side while fulfilling other roles in the company, and that would somehow work out just fine. Honestly, I think they could have picked like 10 reasonably good players and let them playtest these rules for a month and I'm sure we at least wouldn't be talking about most of the stupid rules (non-)interactions that slipped through. Also, I was still on board with Mk3 before the Gang/Knockdown bullshit because despite all the faults in the rules PP seemed committed to fix the issues people found. But now I'm already losing faith because it's hard to shake the feeling that they decided there are just too many models with Flank and Gang to make new cards for all of them, so gently caress it, working as intended. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Jul 4, 2016 |
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Jul 4, 2016 22:11
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Iceclaw posted:What's the consensus over the circle and Skorne one? And the Cygnar one? Asking for a friend. Kozlov is a problem, though. His ability to hand out Pathfinder, Steady and a SPD buff make him hard to deal with. Oh, and don't try too hard to use Tanith's gun imo. Playing her forward is risky.
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Jul 6, 2016 12:00
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Has anyone played with the Fane Knight in Mk3? His output looks pretty anemic for such an expensive solo, but a Shield Guard that can easily reach twentysomething ARM against shooting shouldn't be too bad. Also, I just now saw they're releasing the Kaelyssa resculpt as a metal model in September. Which means I'll stick to Helynna for now, I guess.
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Jul 7, 2016 22:49
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Either Baldur and a Woldwrath, possibly even two, looks pretty strong. Unfortunately also only slightly more fun than Bradigus. My own games with Ret have been limited to lower point values, but I like Helynna a lot. Probably not even going to expand much until the metal Kaelyssa resculpt comes out and the first round(s) of errata are out. fnordcircle posted:Maybe it's just a weird angle, but I don't really even understand its face and tusks at all. It seriously took me a minute to figure out what was going on.
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Jul 10, 2016 00:52
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Kithkar posted:Man is a creepy fucker though, I will say that.  From what I've read of the AMA he continues to engage with criticism well and takes the community seriously, though. Which, given the promise of regular errata and open beta feel of the current rules is pretty important imo.
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Jul 12, 2016 22:58
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Well, the Earthborn still has innate Pathfinder. Is that a silver lining?
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Jul 12, 2016 23:04
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PaintVagrant posted:I play both and have had almost no current interest in putting my skorne or legion on the table. Mostly just because the drastic changes to Warmachine are what I want to explore, not because I think hordes factions are bad. In a few months I'll get the skorne itch again. Excelsiortothemax posted:Circle was changed in terms of how they deliver their stuff and the loss of the Druid cloud wall. No longer can you just sit back and force your opponent to try to crack the puzzle you set for them while picking off key pieces and scuttling to safety. It's a much more aggressive play style with positioning being even more important. If the meta shakes out like it currently looks I wouldn't expect to see an amazing amount of list variety, because if you need to be capable of handling both gunlines and box spam in the shape of a jack wall/beast brick your options are limited.
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Jul 13, 2016 21:24
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Isn't Acosta like the personal avatar of that one author that basically shits out Red Pill manifestos in genre fiction form?Iceclaw posted:I wouldn't say it look worse. Just same as before. Paul Proteus posted:I might have to disagree on the units comment. Reeves can be the core of a list now, especially with if you put two units and a dmg boosting debuff (like wurmwood).
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Jul 13, 2016 22:57
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Iceclaw posted:Hordes as a system did not need it though. Some faction may have and still do, but overall Beasts and Fury were a lot more attractive. I mean, come on, your usual Horde list had about as much beasts 'Jack heavy list had Warjacks. Warmachine infantry evened that out, but overall, Warmachine got a boost it needed. xiw posted:I picked up a Circle starter box instead of the Menoth one for the journeyman league here. We're going +15 pts per week instead of the wonky listed ones. The way you seem to be taking it I'd consider Skinwalkers. I'm not sure about this since Tanith doesn't do much for them, but they can still soak up some damage and you're adding a slow heavy and a ranged unit. Obviously very pillow-fisted without the UA, though - I'd even consider a min unit + UA before the full base unit. Sentry Stones are important pieces for Tanith imo. She also has Prowl, so put in Swamp Gobbers as soon as it's in any way convenient. As you go up in points the Reeve UA also becomes more interesting. Not mandatory, but blast immunity is good. Once you start seeing more infantry, the Night Witch and White Mane are also potentially ridiculous with Affliction. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Jul 14, 2016 |
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Jul 14, 2016 00:39
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Yeah, I don't really know either. So far it's been kinda nice, especially since I've been trading beasts away more often. It's no Power Up, though. Both good changes that help to bring Focus and Fury closer together throughout a game, just not on the same power level. Also: Magnificent. I wonder if that guy has Siri call him Savio or just master.
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Jul 14, 2016 00:54
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Paul Proteus posted:How are you adding full reeves? They are 16 pts. quote:*edit* We can take units in ours starting week two. I think I am going to do a unit of woldstalkers and a sentry stone. Guess the Rip Horn really is the least bad option then? Going for one of the cheaper Satyrs might also be reasonable, idk, I think they all suck.
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Jul 14, 2016 01:15
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Yeah, the Rip Horn is functional but I don't see myself ever looking at a list with one in it and being happy with it. I'd always try to find a way to upgrade to a warpwolf. The other two satyrs are both gimmicky, though, but maybe going for a gimmick is better. A cheap satyr in week 2 means you can get Gobbers in week 3 as well. e: Assuming full Reeves in week 3. Not sure they'll be needed that early, but it's something. Either way, if it has to be a satyr, and I guess it does, I'd definitely try to get WE&SJ into the list at some point. A Pureblood and a goat just aren't enough. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Jul 14, 2016 |
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Jul 14, 2016 01:34
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Also, saying the Rip Horn is good when it's buffed is not really going to get anyone to reconsider tbh. It gets a lot of attacks for a low point and fury investment, that's its whole thing. Of course it works well with damage buffs/ARM debuffs. That's already where its problems begin, though, because it needs at least one of these to function, so it's not entirely a cheap throwaway model. And then you compare it to a Feral, who is faster, more survivable, more accurate, hits harder and has Primal. There's only so much a 4 point cost difference can make up for.
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Jul 14, 2016 10:46
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Some general notes though: Convergence isn't getting regular releases so avoid them. Mercs, Cryx and Trolls are expensive for various reasons. Minions as well, to a lesser degree. Skorne is, uh, maybe not in the best place right now.
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Jul 14, 2016 18:35
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Yeah, absolutely. I think it's safe to say that Skorne are worse than, say, Khador or Menoth, but it's not like Skorne is 100% unplayable trash. So in the end if picking them up is on the table it's more a question of how important relative faction power is to you.
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Jul 14, 2016 18:46
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As for simple/easy to play, I wouldn't even think about that. This game is a pretty big time and money investment, don't decide what you want to play based on how hard the first games are going to be. And all factions have their straightforward lists.
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Jul 14, 2016 19:21
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rydiafan posted:Full lists are here, if you want them: http://ringdevc.w14.wh-2.com/atc/StaticEvents/WiTC%20Year%201teams.html Also, I'm happy to see Kaelyssa, Ossyan and Helynna so often, those are exactly the three Ret casters I want to play. e: Both Minions players bring double Brigands in a list, that's, well, it's one more than I would have expected. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Jul 15, 2016 |
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Jul 15, 2016 19:21
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Yeah, I don't own Brigands but I might pick them up before their current models (which I've always liked a lot) get replaced. I've been thinking of playing them with Tanith instead of a second unit of Reeves as an independent module that can still benefit a lot from both Scything Touch and Affliction under the right circumstances.
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Jul 15, 2016 20:23
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Trashcan posted:Does Hog Wild work with Dig In? That would be nice
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Jul 15, 2016 20:45
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Skorne is the most accidentally meta faction in any game I know.
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Jul 15, 2016 21:57
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75 points with Specialists is nice imo because you can't bring everything you could possibly need at once but Specialists still allow you to prepare for most things and make skew lists less attractive. I really hope Specialists becomes the default for bigger tournaments. There's always the issue of discouraging newer players or those that are just getting into a new faction when they need an extra 20 points worth of models, so it's obviously not going to work for a lot of small local Steamrollers. But purely from a gameplay perspective it seems ideal to me. e: Not that the rules for Masters or whatever are immediately relevant for most of the games that I play, but I'd like it if I could bring a list + specialists and nobody would bat an eye because it's an accepted standard. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Jul 15, 2016 |
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Jul 15, 2016 23:17
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For bonus points, they did this after renaming Krueger2's Storm Wall spell to Windstorm.
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Jul 17, 2016 19:01
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Depends, are other models close to the Hellmouth within Hellmouth range? (Note that if there's a second Hellmouth close to the Hellmouth it can't be pushed closer to the Hellmouth by Hellmouth.) Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Jul 17, 2016 |
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Jul 17, 2016 19:15
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Farrow Brigands can now charge when using Hog Wild (again). Also, the clearly overpowered Wold Guardian was reined in by taking Sturdy away from it. e: Which is to make it work with Bradigus' feat, I know, but still. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Jul 18, 2016 |
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Jul 18, 2016 20:39
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S.J. posted:Well then you know it's a buff, so... I mean, Sturdy alone is hardly going to make or break a model, and tbh I don't really care about Bradigus or the Wold Guardian. But come on.
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Jul 18, 2016 21:13
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S.J. posted:His DEF is low enough that not being able to be knocked down is practically irrelevant. A positive interaction with a powerful feat is a buff. Being able to be pushed or w/e is rarely going to be relevant for him. And that's a niché rule, sure, but one that can work well together with its animus, Shield Guard and Ram. It's not a big deal, and I realize that the Wold Guardian might get errata'd again in the future, but they took a rule away from a lovely model and I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to find that a little silly.
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Jul 18, 2016 21:21
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S.J. posted:But removing what looks to be an obviously unintended negative rule interaction is silly to you? I mean obviously it's a buff, and arguably he needs it, since the guys purpose has changed quite a bit, he picked up more boxes and lost his anti-shooting animus. But that's beside the point. I just don't see why it was necessary to make the Wold Guardian work with Bradigus by removing Sturdy when they could have, for example, rewritten Bradigus' feat to make it not a push effect. Generally speaking, I think it'd be best if all these rules would let the player controlling the model with Sturdy or whatever choose whether or not to apply it, but I guess that's not in the books.
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Jul 18, 2016 21:40
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Also, I'd much rather talk about the Brigands than my half-assed throwaway joke about PP taking a rule away from the already underwhelming Wold Guardian. Because Brigands were already legit before Hog Wild charges were reinstated.
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Jul 18, 2016 21:43
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Are there any Elara spoilers anywhere? e: Apart from the reported Field Marshal rule. I'll take unsubstantiated rumors. I just now read the latest Insider and although there are better models, I can't lie, those dumb anime goggles and the double-bladed scythe are kind of appealing to the twelve-year-old in me. Also, I need to know if she retained battlegroup Refuge in some way. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 22:17
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I'm on the verge of just selling off all my Circle and going all in on Ret, but Wrong Eye is kind of keeping me in the faction so far. If I sell my Circle at some point I'll probably pick up some Legion or Gators just so I can keep playing with WE&SJ. Still my favorite models in the game, and just so good in Mk3. S.J. posted:I should probably put Sloan on a base at some point, I guess?
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Aug 3, 2016 19:14
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Elara is not what I expected, but I'm down. I wonder how many of the promoted juniors on the Hordes side are going to have Scything Touch. Also, no Gastone? I think there hasn't been a single non-Cephalyx merc caster release in the time I've been playing this game.
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Aug 4, 2016 19:03
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rkajdi posted:When did you start? I think two merc units (Gobber River Raiders and the Devil's Whatever Mutineers) came out after the Cephalyx stuff. But yeah, Mercs haven't been getting many updates to the main charters. And I was talking specifically about merc casters. Just seems like they haven't gotten one in a while, apart from the Cephalyx. e: Apparently, the last one was Ossrum in late 2012.
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Aug 4, 2016 19:17
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Khisanth Magus posted:What you are talking about is the absolutely lovely release system that GW uses. I really don't want to watch PP go that route, it is a horrible system. This, though? With Minions and Mercs confirmed to get their own books and a new faction incoming, even if PP releases a book per month there's going to be a faction (read: CoC) not getting anything in a given year if this is the only release model. I could see it make more sense if PP considers the original 4 factions of both Hordes and Warmachine relatively close to being finished and is considering expanding the game more by adding new factions than adding the 100th thing to the existing ones, which I think is the way to go. If they keep expanding and introducing factions at more or less the same rate as now, though, this system sucks. Also, what is even going to be in those books? Can't be that much unless they just completely stop testing stuff before releasing it, which, "Three years of playtesting!" jokes aside, I kinda doubt. Anyway, the most alarming thing here is that I can see the day where I give in and download War Room approaching fast.
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Aug 11, 2016 14:25
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Our meta here is stable, but the only miniatures game with any real momentum is X-Wing. I kinda want to get into that myself, but the most active player around here is a huge rear end in a top hat.
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Aug 12, 2016 12:40
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