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The Delta reveal was poo poo for a multitude of reasons that would have been easily avoided if there was any indication that Delta was aware of ? and trying to fool them in particular. In fact, that's how I choose to read it - that's why he tells Akane about the FtS meeting, to inform her of this greater, possibly hostile force. As it stands there's literally no reason to conceal Delta from the player at all other than a really cheap gotcha moment, and all of the other games' twists have had way more significance than "oh yeah he was just off camera the whole time, duh". Delta's existence was NEVER a twist for the actual characters that the player depends on for the narrative, so just omitting him for absolutely no reason is lazy poo poo-sucking nonsense. The other thing that I feel like I disagree with a ton of people on is Zero's "complex motives". We know that to ensure his birth, two of the other many timelines are necessary for Sigma's two attempts through the Decision Game leading to the Silver Lining ending. Both endings are bleak. But....those endings are the only ones that are required to exist out of all the horrific paths, and Delta actually implies that the bad timelines were simulations in the quantum computer. So why the rest of the paths? I kind of think that it's the opposite of everyone else's interpretation: he's trying to get Akane specifically to quit being so hesitant to use her powers when necessary, since her BttF theory doesn't actually play out as reality for the SHIFTers in the game. They never explicitly acknowledge it, but the memories of the SHIFTer aren't lost as Akane suspects but are assimilated. If you tie it in with the idea above about Delta being paranoid about ? it can be seen as him training her to match the possible threat and would help explain why in the VLR ending she goes to complete the AB project even after clearly meeting with Delta and the cult. I don't know, it seemed like there should have been something deeper to it than just "haha there was a secret extra character and we used deceptive camera angles that were indistinguishable from our poor 3D animation budget-saving techniques". Other random poo poo that bugs me: -What the gently caress is with Delta and Phi ending up in 1904? They set it for shortly before 2008, the transporter doesn't gently caress up this badly for anyone else the bunches of times its used, and Dr. Of All the Science Sigma Klim had ten months to study it again before firing it off. -Sigma and Phi are mostly useless during the entire thing despite being the ones that have spent literally decades preparing for this. -Related to the above, it was jarring to see Junpei and Akane in the game at all. Junpei I can actually accept on some level, but Akane being there completely defeats the purpose of sending Sigma and Phi, the specially-awakened SHIFTers, when Akane is there herself and spends the entire game SHIFTing around while Sigma crosses his arms and looks dour.
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Jul 25, 2016 05:55
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| # ¿ May 14, 2024 18:37 |
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Like who the gently caress is Delta writing "LETS INHIBIT THE VIRUS" for? The truth isn't invisible to the characters!! They see him right there! It's only invisible to the player! game so dumb grumble grumble
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Jul 25, 2016 18:35
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Lareine posted:Sigma was important because he had to bang Diana. Phi was there to..... be incinerated? Yeah she had to be there and die so Akane could leave the shelter and lock the door, and Sig and Di would get all sappy and sad about her and name the new baby Phi (influencing Delta's name as well) - or be there and LIVE so she carries out Delta's Radical-6 plan. That part actually sorta makes sense.
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Jul 25, 2016 18:38
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It feels like it was so you could have a "*gasp* but he's so OLD!!" moment but I don't recall there being a way to acknowledge his existence at all before the twins ending other than the Perceptive End tease, and they used that "is secretly old" thing as a twist last game, so...yeah.
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Jul 25, 2016 18:56
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In VLR everyone's life is in danger the whole time due to the rad-6 and antimatter bombs.
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Jul 25, 2016 19:54
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All it would have taken was one more scene like ? in VLR, just vaguely alluding to some observer outside the time stream and driving home the comment about the quantum computer timelines, and it would have tied it together well enough that I would be satisfied. But here we just have that stupid Delta gotcha with literally no reason other than to have a twist. It wouldn't even bug me so much if the overall setting/setup of ZTD is by far my favorite in the series and then it just gets spoiled with "oh yeah there was a guy off screen in this third person game for literally no reason other than because...gently caress you." Despite all that, I still hope we get another one, because I'm some kind of masochist or something and I'm hoping this was a fluke (having never read through the Ever17/whatever series). If we ever did though I hope they basically relegate the Radical-6 future to dialogue and poo poo because it's bleak and we know everything there is to know about it, more or less: -Everything in VLR happens, of course -Akane sets up the AB game and is almost certainly cooperating with Delta when she does, I don't think it's insignificant that she sends Sigma's consciousness back to right after she meets with Delta and Free the Soul -Alice and Clover were probably transported to Rhizome 9 and thus led perfectly normal lives in post-apocalyptic Earth, though who knows if they managed to shift back to their bodies there. If not then Alice and Clover are stuck on the moon and nearly everyone they know is dead. The only missing link is Kyle, who presumably went back to shortly before ZTD to assist Delta at Akane's behest, and ?, who is just never mentioned at all in ZTD despite literally the whole gimmick only making sense if it's involved.
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Jul 26, 2016 06:29
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The whole "oh, I never said it would happen NOW. It's time for you to sleep," thing was a hell of a hint about them all being in the same ward, in retrospect.
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Jul 26, 2016 07:09
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Ibram Gaunt posted:It can easily be patched up by saying that your perspective was the cameras the whole time, even if Delta was dead. You know, for all Delta's talk about not being able to SHIFT, he pretty obviously knows everything that goes on in the shelter across all timelines - the shelter is run by the same quantum computer Sean is running on, after all, so it makes sense that his magic glasses would be hooked into the system too. That's probably actually the intended twist of the game, that the player literally is always Delta, occasionally watching from another timeline. It still sucks and needed one more scene to pull it together, and that "THE TRUTH IS INVISIBLE" clue is going to bug me forever.
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Jul 26, 2016 21:25
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Paul Zuvella posted:People are straight up making up non-existent plot twists at this point smh Yeah it's a reach but all the elements are there and had a bunch of hints indicating that they were meant to play a much bigger role, so where's the harm in spitballing?
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Jul 28, 2016 06:17
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Fright Ibis posted:I like this game so much it made me get an account. They were both from Delta and adapted by Sigma (at Akane's instructions) for VLR. Akane has all her memories and met with Delta on April Whatever 2029.
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Jul 29, 2016 20:31
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Yeah, I thought that was pretty weird too. Even Sigma would be a better choice, since Sigma is so insanely central to ZTD and he has been preparing for it for his entire life. Carlos seems more likely to crack a joke or something. In fact, I'd say that the only two people in the entire game where it's kind of up in the air whether or not they'd shoot are Sigma and Junpei, actually, and even Junpei is kind of a stretch since he's been hunting Delta professionally as his job for a while by ZTD and he seems to enjoy getting his hands dirty. Phi, of course, would blast Delta right between his glowy weird eyes.
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Aug 16, 2016 00:48
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| # ¿ May 14, 2024 18:37 |
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:so does this game actually resolve anything in the end? Sort of, but the "twist" is seriously terrible compared to the other two games, and (IMO) the best part of the story is something that you already know is going to happen going into it, so that's disappointing. That said, it does have all of the best characters palling around together in a murder dungeon filled with traps and decisions, so it's still a fun ride, but god drat I don't think I've ever seen a worse twist/ending in any game ever.
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Nov 2, 2016 15:10
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