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Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

I've read that Delta made clones of his dead adoptive brother Left. Is there a scene I'm forgetting/have missed in ZTD that says that or is it inferred from VLR?

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Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

Delta is 124.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

Junpei also kindof mind controlled Akane at the end of 999. It's not that much of a stretch to say that the field can be used to control people (especially given the transmitter/receiver metaphor they keep mentioning) but there probably should've been other examples of it in the series.

I find the fact that team Q had an old man in a wheelchair following them around all the time to be a bigger issue but hey.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

I wouldn't think too hard about 999's links with the rest of the series.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

His plans probably just changed. It's not like we were ever promised more Dio in-game.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

NRVNQSR posted:

I think the ones that could most reasonably make a player suspicious are the scenes where the other teams talk about Q-team's deaths, and specifically the way they talk about Q; if you pay attention the things they say about Q make no sense if Q is Sean. I've never heard anyone say that they picked up on those, though.
I didn't notice those specific hints, but there was something more general that bothered me - it's clear from the "Payoff" end and the way Eric reacts at the start that nobody knows who the gently caress the little boy with the helmet is. So why do the people from the other teams act like they know who "Q" is in the rest of the game?

I assumed it was just a plothole though

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

exploding mummy posted:

C & D teams never immediately recognize Sean.
-Team D is shocked to see a small child on the other side of the decontamination room door, where Q team was positioned during the VLR ending.
-Team C doesn't recognize evil Sean when it attacks them for cheating, and Carlos makes a few revelations on how he's acting completely different after he shifts to the reveal timeline.

C & D Team recognize Delta, because he was in the DCOM experiment. He's mentioned in a few spots by the different team members.
I know, what I meant was before the teams met up they weren't surprised to see the name "Q" on the board. That indicated something was up.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

MegaZeroX posted:

There is a long post about this topic on reddit.
I dunno if I'd really call most of those "hints". It definitely shows that the writers were thinking about the twist throughout and were able to consistently write around it, but very few actually explicitly grab the player's attention and give them relevant information.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

I mean when he said that he basically seemed to mean that he had multiple motives that were then explained.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

Yeah I think the player is looking through cameras the whole time. The recording of Carlos killing Akane was from same angles the player saw the scene, right?

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

If they wanted to make it seem like the camera had a different perspective they easily could have done so. There are plenty of camera angle changes in the game.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

Maybe he's glancing around the room

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

voltcatfish posted:

Oh right RIP Quark who probably won't exist in the final "happy" timeline
Junpei talked about exactly that at the end of VLR.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

It explained a bunch of things like how the murders happened on some branches and also is what let the teams come together for the climax of the story

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

exploding mummy posted:

The only weird thing that it does is introduce some weakness into how Q team got to the other side of the decontamination room door

I guess they're all in the decontamination room at one point so the X door might have opened, or they all went through some other door. You never see much of the elevator room, so it can't be ruled out.
I don't understand what event you're talking about?

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

The terrorist attack that triggered the nuclear war was somehow a nonary game involving the heads of states of the major powers.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

I think they wanted to avoid spoiling the major twists of the other games for people who hadn't played them yet.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

I mean unpredictability isn't as much of a problem when your plan spans every possible timeline.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

Txn posted:

I still wish that Sean (original) was Left and not Delta's adoptive brother from when he was printed sent back in time. Even the multiple spare bodies could be tied to the Myrmidons. :(
That would contradict what we heard in VLR but that would have been a more satisfying answer, yeah. It could tie into Delta's promise to the original Shaun.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

Danaru posted:

Also considering ZTD barely got made, it's pretty ballsy of Uchikoshi to leave this on a sequel hook.
While you could make a sequel there isn't really anything hanging on it, I think it's more of a 'the adventure continues' ending.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

They tell you some background information but deliberately avoid giving you the big twists of either game.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

I doubt Uchikoshi knows or cares about the words having different roots. It was probably deliberate.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

Transporter was probably my favorite room. I can imagine it being frustrating to people without a maths background though.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

Even if the ends might've been sortof good Delta was clearly an rear end in a top hat who enjoyed seeing people put in horrible situations. I don't think he was necessarily aiming to minimize suffering/death across all timelines.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

Without the VLR timeline there's no Delta. Even if he just kidnapped young Sigma he probably wouldn't have formed the same relationship with Diana as the old Sigma who had already lived with her.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

It seems to be metaphor for the fanatic who caused a 100% deathrate amongst humans.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

Carlos had a good understanding of how timeline branching worked, stopping the decision game would give him a happy timeline but wouldn't save his friends. I'm kindof curious how he managed to sneak out of the pod since it was presumably under Delta's control at that stage.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

He also talked about how fascinated he was by difficult decisions and parallel worlds.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

The GAULEMs in ZTD were clearly way less advanced at least.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

999 seemed to be working under the rules of that one famous movie with M-kun in it.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

Other than the fourth question (which is basically answered in ZTD - Delta has an alien fax machine to send copies or "clones" of his brother to the future) those are all questions that don't actually matter at all. Uchikoshi probably hadn't decided whether to put those characters in ZTD yet so he gave a vague answer that left his options open.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

irlZaphod posted:

You piece of poo poo Uchikoshi
Also note that the way out was the 'X door' this time.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

I think they said at the end that only the bad guys actually had bombs in them.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

Undertale did something a lot less extreme and it still caused freakouts.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

Yeah if you break each number down to its prime factors you get a tonne of information.

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Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

Cake Attack posted:

iirc the 9/q thing works cause Junpei is reading it from a letter and mistakes the letter q for a 9 in the English version which is an incredibly convenient save since they'd be sol if 9 and q weren't arguable similar looking
I mean they actually see the q door and mistake it for a 9 so that similarity is also part of the original game.

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