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Tired Moritz posted:Eric is my favourite character. Why the gently caress are he and Mira in the game? It's not like some "I saw you so you had to be here" like in 999. Eric and Mira are the piranha in the fish tank. Eric presents an obvious source of danger (pointing shotguns in everyone's faces) and Mira presents a secret source of danger.
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Jul 1, 2016 17:57
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Paul Zuvella posted:Delta is like Hot Topic Levels of Edgy. I loved it because it was hilarious. Maybe I view Uchikoshi as more cynical than the rest of you, but I saw most of the "SO DARK" stuff in this game as intended to be intentionally hilarious. Like how often Akane ends up soaked in everyone else's blood.
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Jul 1, 2016 18:00
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Tired Moritz posted:Isn't that only for shifting? I'm not even sure if Sean is technically shifting or his quantum computer is just so good at processing possibilities that it technically knows everything Mind you, Mira was the one who killed Junpei to set off Akane/Carlos, and Eric was in lots of situations where he was threatening other shifters later in the game.
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Jul 1, 2016 18:02
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:The biggest problem with this game is that there are absolutely no stakes in anything and there's never a sense of urgency. In the final stretch of the game and getting deep into it almost all of the characters just stop caring about dying because "eh we'll just go to another time." and team C actively hunts for ways to nuke themselves. That's essentially the point! Delta is pissed that no one cares about what happens in each timeline, ala Junpei from VLR. To the SHIFTers they're just immortal, but to the people who can't SHIFT they're loving everyone else over in that timeline. That's part of the point of Akane getting so upset at Junpei about his plan, because it was horrific (and led to the thing they were trying to prevent in the first place, ultimately). Delta's whole deal is not really that he had a grand plan, overall he's just trying to make a point.
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Jul 1, 2016 18:11
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Tired Moritz posted:Anyone noticed that Sean never bleed when injured? I wanted to think it it was because it was to avoid a higher rating but yeah it was kinda obvious he's a robot. Yeah, that's what tipped me off right away. By the way, did we ever figure out if Quark was a clone of the original Sean, or another Sean robot who happened to have an actual head?
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Jul 1, 2016 18:19
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Terper posted:Quark is just a boy One of the death passwords was QUARK, and I remember there being a few important qualities to Quark that were never explained in VLR (he was super resilient, for one). Also the Junpei/Quark relationship mirroring the Delta/Sean relationship doesn't seem like a coincidence.
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Jul 1, 2016 18:24
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Also I'm too busy to go back and start going through the scenes again with all the new info I got but, since Q was delta the whole time why was Sean the one hitting all the buttons and making all the decisions? I know that Delta was the one actually choosing all of the decision branches in all the scenarios, but it seemed to imply the only reason Mira and Eric let Sean do things like the execution vote was because he was the team leader, when he obviously isn't. When you go back and rewatch these scenes, Sean is not the one making the decisions, but it's made to look that way. For instance, during the execution vote it's actually clear that Mira and Eric are NOT talking to Sean, but are talking to someone else.
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Jul 1, 2016 19:08
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Vaguido posted:Every time the characters SHIFT they're loving over another version of themselves. It's really inconsistent character writing, because they voiced their concerns about it several times (like the first SHIFT into C Team that just rolled all 1s) and determined they needed to do it to save everyone. Then they talk about how they shouldn't gently caress over other versions of themselves for their own selfish needs, ignoring that loving over other timelines is basically the baseline of every character's plan in these games. This was the point! Delta was telling them that they should think seriously about what they were doing when they SHIFT, because they weren't considering the actual implications of what they were doing.
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Jul 1, 2016 19:13
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korrandark posted:Ok, I think I finished the game. I really liked it. Two questions though. It actually literally doesn't matter. Because of how timelines work in this game we know that the timeline where Delta is killed and the timeline where he is not killed both happen no matter what. I thought the fact that the game cuts out right at the moment was pretty clever. Cake Attack posted:thinking about it, i think the thing that bugs me a lot is how little any of the characters seem to ever accomplish. with the exception of Carlos, real american hero, shifting like mad, it feels like everyone just kinda bumbles along aimlessly until the player has the right info and then delta spouts exposition and the game ends. this was especially bad in the case of sigma and phi, who were supposed to be infiltrating the experiment to stop radical 9, and proceed to basically do nothing all game except get born I took this to be part of the point. Ultimately the fates of everyone were always already predetermined, and no amount of time shenanigans could ever have avoided that. The latin phrases point back to this too. The people who actually ended up happy were the ones who accepted their fates and found happiness despite it, as Diana and Sigma did in the timeline where Phi and Delta are born, or Junpei and Quark in VLR. Trying to change the past was a mistake.
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Jul 2, 2016 23:31
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Linguica posted:I just rewatched the intro cinematic to the pod room and there's no loving way that an old man in a wheelchair is anywhere in that room off camera (and especially not in the spot suggested by the phantom shadow). They cover all the angles in the various shots. I am disappointed in you Uchikoshi!! There's a good few times where Delta is not in the room and then enters the scene later after everyone else.
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Jul 2, 2016 23:32
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NextTime000 posted:I am just going to pretend that the brooch got lost or broken then replaced or repaired before the events of ZTD, that way it at least has a more believable loop like the Muramasa in chrono trigger Technically it did. The transporter only transports information; it "3D prints" the item at the destination from materials already there. Where did the design come from, then? Well, if you think about it, it has to be necessitated by what features the brooch would've needed to have in order for Diana to want to pick it up from the furnace and for Phi to want to keep it and pass it down to her self-daughter, etc. Basically, the design of the brooch was determined by what the design of an object that Phi and Diana both would've liked enough to keep would've had to have been :P.
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Jul 2, 2016 23:46
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voltcatfish posted:there's something about swimsuit nendo akane that kinda took me out of the game every time i saw it I think Uchikoshi just really wanted it to get made.
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Jul 3, 2016 00:02
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Okay, had a lot of thoughts regarding "?" that I'm not sure if anyone else pointed out already Rewatching the VLR secret ending; Kyle is sent back to December 25th, and Akane says his mission begins on Christmas and ends on New Year's Eve, 2028. ZTD starts on New Year's Eve, and carries over to New Year's Day. Which means Kyle is explicitly not there during the time when the game happens, but is actually there for the 5 days that the Decision Game participants are unconscious. Consider the other things that we know about Kyle: he was born in an artificial womb and Sigma raised him as his own son. When Kyle asked for a mother, Sigma made a robot of Diana. We also know that Kyle's purpose as a "spare" was not his real purpose (his real purpose was to go back in time). What if Kyle is not actually a direct clone of Sigma at all, but is instead a hybrid of Diana and Sigma? We know that Akane went to the Free the Soul meeting on April 12th that Delta told her to go to (since she's wearing the robes when she wakes up Sigma on April 13th), then she immediately takes him to Rhizome 9...What if VLR Akane ended up explicitly working with Delta to create the events of ZTD after meeting with him and finding out what his overall plan was (hiding her plans even from Sigma)? Then Kyle went back into Delta's body from the 25th-31st in order to set up the events of ZTD.
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Jul 9, 2016 22:39
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:So here's something else I wondered and if it was explained I don't quite remember. So I understand that when the characters were saying 'Q' the entire game, they referring to the old man we never saw called Delta. What I don't quite get is how the other characters know Q's, as in the robot Sean's, name. Like when you first say Delta killed Mira in front of the transporter room, Eric will say something like "How is that possible Sean?" Or something where he says Sean's name. But how do they know? Doesn't Sean only find out his real name during one of the endings, and he never tells anyone else? We never see Sean tell anyone his name, but that doesn't mean he never said it to someone. We have to assume there were some things that were happening off-camera we never got to see (like, well, Delta :P). It's not clear exactly if Sean learns his name for the first time during that ending or not (Zero just says that was the name of the boy he's based on); either way, it's possible for him to just spontaneously remember it in another timeline via the quantum computer.
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Jul 9, 2016 22:56
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Chewbot posted:No, same. It's like a liferaft with a couple leaks in it if you look really close, but it gets the job done admirably. Luckily Uchikoshi threw in a bunch of factors that you can use to hand-wave holes in the plot :P. Most anything can be explained away by some combination of "the morphogenetic field did it" and "mind hacking".
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Jul 9, 2016 22:58
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W.T. Fits posted:The only thing that really bugged me about the game is that we never find out if Eric's abusive father was arrested or otherwise punished for the murder of his youngest son (probably not, given that he had Eric dump the body in a lake). Granted, it's not important to the overall narrative if he was or not, but I want to know and not knowing bugs the hell out of me. Given what happens in the epilogue, one can easily form the headcanon that Eric's dad faced some serious robot-boy justice.
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Jul 9, 2016 23:05
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