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F_Shit_Fitzgerald
Feb 2, 2017



Star Trek has been going on long enough now that canon can be whatever you want it to be.

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Mooseontheloose
May 13, 2003

TheDeadlyShoe posted:

Bones was also the emotional one of the kirk-mccoy-spock trio. He would stand up for what felt right in the moment, even if it didn't serve the greater good. Crusher inherited that role to some extent.

I think poor Bev deserved better than she got on TNG. She is a Doctor who carries a fairly high rank and knows how to operate a ship. It gave her this space to be a healer and tell command to gently caress itself when they were being a bunch of dicks. I appreciate the strong willed, you need another perspective on this but they never gave her enough to do. I mean except gently caress a ghost.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013





McSpanky posted:

ENT is super obviously happening in an alternate timeline, and Rick Berman can kiss my rear end.

c. 2002

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.

CainFortea posted:

So, you don't know what the word arbitrary means. Got it!

quote:

ar·bi·trar·y
/ˈärbəˌtrerē/
adjective
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
"his mealtimes were entirely arbitrary"

:shrug:

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003




The moral of the story is, canon includes all the 90s shows except the bits we don't talk about, lower decks, prodigy, and a specific 160,000 word fanfic.

HD DAD
Jan 13, 2010

Generic white guy.

Toilet Rascal
Everything is canon, especially TAS, Lower Decks, and the Klingon board game

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013





The TNG VHS game is canon, only it's been retconned that it was actually Gowron who takes over the Enterprise and steals it from Spacedock.

Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005

a medium-format picture of beeftweeter staring silently at the camera, a quizzical expression on his face

nine-gear crow posted:

I think SNW has managed to thread the needle fairly deftly for the most part in terms of chucking out bits of canon like that in the name of doing fun and interesting things with the characters. If it stuck rigidly to canon, we wouldn't have gotten Spock Amok which is a contender for a top ten all time Trek episode.

The SNW crew has earned my trust at this point with whatever the hell they want to do with Kirk from here onward.

it just seems unnecessary. there are more than 10 people in the federation, they can have us follow someone else. there are plenty of new characters on SNW that they could flesh out, and even if there weren't, there always could be

idk it seems kinda silly to try and say "this is a prequel, the things that happened before actually happened after" and then directly contradict that anyway. why bother

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004



Now try to comprehend the words. It's the internet, you got time.

"These two things can't be true at the same time so I pick A" is a reason that is neither random choice nor personal whim.

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003




Not to backseat, but how about we all just move on from that.

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.

CainFortea posted:

Now try to comprehend the words. It's the internet, you got time.

"These two things can't be true at the same time so I pick A" is a reason that is neither random choice nor personal whim.

Respectfully, get absolutely hosed dude.

primaltrash
Feb 11, 2008

(Thought-ful Croak)

Tighclops posted:

inside of a decade people are gonna be rendering whatever episodes of whatever they like anyway they like and canon as we know it will crumple into a little dried out turd like the caretaker

Godspeed, the sooner the better.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!

CainFortea posted:

Now try to comprehend the words. It's the internet, you got time.

"These two things can't be true at the same time so I pick A" is a reason that is neither random choice nor personal whim.

"I pick" is a personal whim, you dingdong.

Taear
Nov 26, 2004

Ask me about the shitty opinions I have about Paradox games!

CainFortea posted:

Now try to comprehend the words. It's the internet, you got time.

"These two things can't be true at the same time so I pick A" is a reason that is neither random choice nor personal whim.

You're wrong buddy sorry

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Big Mean Jerk posted:

Respectfully, get absolutely hosed dude.
Dismissing someone else as "oh you just don't personally like it" is lovely, so maybe don't be a such an rear end if you don't want people coming back at you.

Timby posted:

"I pick" is a personal whim, you dingdong.

No. It isn't. A whim is "oh, I feel like Spock's sister is real today". A reaction to changes in content isn't a whim.

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.
Queueing this one up for when the mod comes in and says to knock it off

Only registered members can see post attachments!

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006
As an old I don't care about Canon and I just take stories for what they are. Maybe I'm just dead inside from seeing too many headlines about how New Picard Episode Has Implications For Kirk's Actual Feelings About Khan Or Whatever.

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

Unable to deal with it


Grimey Drawer

PerniciousKnid posted:

Maybe I'm just dead inside from seeing too many headlines about how New Picard Episode Has Implications For Kirk's Actual Feelings About Khan Or Whatever.

Hard same. I used to love continuity and I loved poo poo like the TNG tech manual and the various editions of the star trek encyclopedia but they've run all that into the ground with years of bad stories and dumb characters so that the whole "shared universe" thing actively works against any new material

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011
it's fun listening to the delta flyers. garrett wang was the designated sweaty main cast member so they had to build absorbent pads into his undershirt lol

Eimi
Nov 23, 2013

I will never log offshut up.


Khanstant posted:

if we all have to pretend TOS and picard-prequel are canon, you can suck it up for SNW

I have spent well over two decades pretending the TNG movies are non-canon, you can't make me start now for three tv shows I don't like.

Also to go back to Dax, as a trans woman myself, I agree with everyone's take that she's not really trans, but like what Tolkein said about allegory, direct allegories only work in brief bursts, like a single episode here and there. So Dax just being applicable for the trans experience instead of allegory actually makes her strong. I mean DS9 showed that like full SRS is an outpatient procedure, and obviously the plastic surgery tech exists to make you look however you drat well want. Being trans wouldn't be painful or strange of an experience in Trek's future.

Kor meeting Jadzia owned and it was just great to see someone so accepting, doubly so because Kor is a Klingon and not part of the Federation who we would expect to be accepting. It's a lovely moment and what we wish we could get, but somehow the world has only gotten less accepting since even when I came out over a decade ago.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013





CainFortea posted:

Dismissing someone else as "oh you just don't personally like it" is lovely, so maybe don't be a such an rear end if you don't want people coming back at you.

No. It isn't. A whim is "oh, I feel like Spock's sister is real today". A reaction to changes in content isn't a whim.

It's also perfectly acceptable to just go "Hmm, okay. I get where you're coming from" and the shut the gently caress up because it's not worth arguing about it even if you know in your heart you're right because it's a stupid hill to die on and everyone thinks you're the weirdo here currently.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


nine-gear crow posted:

It's also perfectly acceptable to just go "Hmm, okay. I get where you're coming from" and the shut the gently caress up because it's not worth arguing about it even if you know in your heart you're right because it's a stupid hill to die on and everyone thinks you're the weirdo here currently.

It's a star trek thread in tv/iv. Everyone posting here is a weirdo. vOv

Nullsmack
Dec 7, 2001
Digital apocalypse

Tighclops posted:

inside of a decade people are gonna be rendering whatever episodes of whatever they like anyway they like and canon as we know it will crumple into a little dried out turd like the caretaker

I'm a little worried about what the blowback on that is going to be like. There's already a bunch of people on Twitter and in other places saying that "AI" trained on copyright data is violating copyright even with unique outputs. "Mass theft" they call it. Even before you get to things where we could use it to generate custom episodes of Star Trek or whatever. If I had a good research ability, it'd be interesting to compare it to the blowback of things like books when the printing press made them very cheap and more available, or when the automobile appeared, or coffeehouses, or any other disruptive thing.

Tighclops
Jan 23, 2008

Unable to deal with it


Grimey Drawer

Nullsmack posted:

I'm a little worried about what the blowback on that is going to be like. There's already a bunch of people on Twitter and in other places saying that "AI" trained on copyright data is violating copyright even with unique outputs. "Mass theft" they call it. Even before you get to things where we could use it to generate custom episodes of Star Trek or whatever. If I had a good research ability, it'd be interesting to compare it to the blowback of things like books when the printing press made them very cheap and more available, or when the automobile appeared, or coffeehouses, or any other disruptive thing.

Yeah I don't know where it's all going to end up, the only thing I'm really sure of is that anybody that has to work for a living will end up getting hosed harder somehow and it'll be in a dumber way than anyone could have imagined

BonHair
Apr 28, 2007

The thing about canon is that it basically means "what can I expect other people to think happened in this universe". You can personally not count some bits, but you gotta accept that you're gonna have to explain that in your discussion. Like, if I wanna talk about Jack Crusher as a Jesus analogy (which is not actually too far fetched), and I argue that it was a virgin birth, I'm gonna have to explain that I don't see Wesley as part of the story. Which is kinda fine, I just have to explain that every time.

Same thing for AI stories, but the other way around. If I refer to Spock's long lost twin on Romulus that all AI wrote a story about, I can't expect anyone to know that story without retelling it first. This also explains the different levels of especially Star Wars canon. Movie canon is what you can expect normies to know, book canon is what nerds know.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



Computer, generate a new OP and thread reboot capable of defeating Lore.

davidspackage
May 16, 2007

Nap Ghost
Canon is Data's oldest brother, but Soong threw him into an incinerator.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Arivia posted:

right now that i'm watching voyager i get to listen to the delta flyers too, hell yeah

it would be neat if there were similar podcasts for the other series (I guess shuttlepod one or whatever it is counts for enterprise, but I mean more TNG/DS9)

update: there is one! the 7th rule is cirroc lofton and aron eisenberg (rip) doing ds9 and it looks like they continued into doing tng with guest spots from people involved in those episodes. still going with lofton and eisenberg's widow.

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nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013





Nessus posted:

Computer, generate a new OP and thread reboot capable of defeating Lore.

PROGRAM COMPLETE. ENTER WHEN READY.

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