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Since this thread is now just about languages or whatever, what is the attitude of French and German speakers towards foreigners trying to speak their languages? I've never been to France but I've heard that many French people don't like foreigners trying to speak French to them, because they butcher the language or something. I had this confirmed by one of my French friends ("Just speak English, most of us do anyway"), but to be fair he's kind of a twat so I don't know if that's the general consensus. Is it the same in Germany? I only ask because I've lived in Asia for a while now and in every country I've been to people have been overly-enthusiastic about me speaking even a tiny bit of the local language. It's nice that people are encouraging, but people telling me "You're so good at X language!" because I can ask what time it is also gets kind of old.
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Aug 16, 2016 00:40
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idk always learn a bit of the language anyway since if they like it it's polite and if they get snobby about it then gently caress em.
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Aug 16, 2016 00:55
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From what I've seen, the "issue" with French people being rude, regarding the language or otherwise, is largely an issue with Paris, which evidently has a reputation for being full of assholes even among French people who aren't from Paris. Personally, I like to try speaking the local language, but if it gets too frustrating for anyone involved, then I switch to English. The most important thing, I think, is that you don't come off like you're doing them a favour by speaking their language because the poor dears probably can't speak English or whatever. This applies double when you're speaking to people who've immigrated to an English-speaking country -- ask first if they mind you practicing the language with them, so you don't accidentally imply they're too stupid to speak English.
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Aug 16, 2016 03:45
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I know my French pronunciation is truly, truly appalling and I garble even simple words so when in Paris I mostly kept with "Bonjour!" and a slightly sheepish "Parlez-vous anglais?" When we were sitting on the lawn in front of the Eiffel tower a drunk guy came up and started talking in rapid French and I interrupted him with a "Sorry..Anglais!" and his response was "Anglais?....Hahahaha! Peesss! Sheeeet! Hahahaha!" and then he tumbled into a bush and I didn't see him again. This was the only instance where any Parisian had any noticeable reaction to my bad accent and poor French. I was much happier in Germany where I got to use my high school German and it was actually useful. Although of course everyone spoke English so when my German ran out they were happy to switch.
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Aug 16, 2016 04:55
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Tamarillo posted:When we were sitting on the lawn in front of the Eiffel tower a drunk guy came up and started talking in rapid French and I interrupted him with a "Sorry..Anglais!" and his response was "Anglais?....Hahahaha! Peesss! Sheeeet! Hahahaha!" and then he tumbled into a bush and I didn't see him again.  Goons just go 4 it follow ur dreamz
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Aug 16, 2016 05:13
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flavor posted:It's kinda cute and sweet and I'm probably just acting like an rear end, because I had people come up to me, say something incomprehensible in German and then acting like they expected a medal too many times. Strange. I've been to Berlin, Wien, München and Köln myself, and with with one expection I never saw a tourist whose native language was something other than German attempt to speak the local language. Like, there were groups of tourists where you could hear them speak French amongst themselves who would mutter "zank yu" when you stepped aside to let them pass, or Italians who answered with "prego" when you say "Danke".
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Aug 16, 2016 09:49
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I guess I owe you an explanation: It didn't happen to me in Germany. It's a thing that people do who force the whole "I detect an accent, where are you from?"  conversation on me. It gets followed up with smallltalk about things I don't care for (Soccer (bores me to death), Autobahn (too narrow with only two lanes per direction, therefore too stressful), German beer (I only like Belgian beer)). Often enough, it's being topped up with something like "Do you know Krappenhausen?" or something incomprehensible in German.
Mr. Smile Face Hat fucked around with this message at 11:26 on Aug 16, 2016 |
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Aug 16, 2016 11:19
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Tequila Sunrise posted:Since this thread is now just about languages or whatever, what is the attitude of French and German speakers towards foreigners trying to speak their languages? As someone who's lived in Paris most of his life, and deals with tourists daily at his job, I don't think Parisians have an issue with people trying to speak French to them. They mostly have an issue with people speaking to them at all, especially if they're slow about it (whether it's because they're bad at French or they're not sure what they want). If you interrupt an adult Parisian in the street, he's probably going to or coming from work and he's not in the mood and doesn't have the time to help you along. Since it's the most visited place in the world, people asking for directions happens all the time and it can get tiring. If you address him in a foreign language (English or Spanish or Italian or whatever) instead of French he'll probably like it even less because he won't understand you and definitely doesn't want to explain stuff through sign language. If it's the summer it will also be worse because that's when the city is half empty and the only people left are the unlucky ones who aren't on vacation and have to deal with the increased number of tourists. At work, my colleagues, who only speak French and a bit of English will definitely appreciate it if you try to speak French.
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Aug 16, 2016 11:20
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pylb posted:As someone who's lived in Paris most of his life, and deals with tourists daily at his job, I don't think Parisians have an issue with people trying to speak French to them. They mostly have an issue with people speaking to them at all, especially if they're slow about it (whether it's because they're bad at French or they're not sure what they want). If you interrupt an adult Parisian in the street, he's probably going to or coming from work and he's not in the mood and doesn't have the time to help you along. Since it's the most visited place in the world, people asking for directions happens all the time and it can get tiring. That kind oflines up with what I've heard about visiting France. If you go to Paris expecting that the French understand English, then gently caress you. OToH If you're willing to pick up a guide book, and take a stab at learning how to to speak French. Yeah, you're going to screw it up, but in most of France they will accept that you're a foreigner, and you at get least points for trying. The rude foreigner stereotype is based on English and German tourists who expect Parisians to speak English and German. Some of them do speak English, but it's still presumptuous to expect them to speak any language that's not French. thrakkorzog fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Aug 16, 2016 |
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Aug 16, 2016 12:32
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pylb posted:As someone who's lived in Paris most of his life, and deals with tourists daily at his job, I don't think Parisians have an issue with people trying to speak French to them. They mostly have an issue with people speaking to them at all, especially if they're slow about it (whether it's because they're bad at French or they're not sure what they want). If you interrupt an adult Parisian in the street, he's probably going to or coming from work and he's not in the mood and doesn't have the time to help you along. Since it's the most visited place in the world, people asking for directions happens all the time and it can get tiring. Funny thing is, this happens to tourists as well. When I was in your city in april of last year, I took the train to Versailles and out of the blue some African-type fellow asked me "C'est le train vers Versailles?" Why he jumped aboard the train before making sure it was the right one I will never know, but I had to tell him that I was a foreign tourist and didn't know. In any case, if you have to ask directions it seems foolish to pester random passersby (chances are they are tourists as well if you are in a touristy area) instead of seeking out someone who is likely to know, like the staff of local businesses. quote:At work, my colleagues, who only speak French and a bit of English will definitely appreciate it if you try to speak French. Really now? Let me tell you about some of my experiences in your city: - Gare du Nord, shortly after arriving from CDG: went to booth where they sell museum passes. Did my best to speak the local language, something like "Bonjour monsieur, je veux un museum pass pour six jours". Guy in the booth seemed to understand, but refused to speak anything but the rosbif language. It wasn't a very involved conversation, but I kept speaking French and he kept replying in English. I am reasonably certain I would have understood him if he said the same things in French. - There was a woman selling sandwiches from a stand on the street. I ordered one in a manner that should be perfectly polite ("Bonjour. Un sandwich avec poulet, s'il vous plait") yet she seemed annoyed and dismissive and wouldn't answer in the local language, instead going something like "yes, yes, here you are, bye". I never encountered anyone else who acted like that, so I'm pretty sure I wasn't acting in an especially offensive manner. - Went to the Pantheon, the one who checked tickets was a middle-aged African-type man. Upon seeing my foreign name on the pass, he went "Bienvenue, monsieur (mangled pronounciation of my last name)" Later I went to the Orangerie, similar situation with a younger woman (also African-type). Her seeing my foreign name made her hesitate and go "Thank you sir" instead of "Merci, monsieur". For some reason, people like that think that us foreigners are all anglomaniacs who can't even understand the simplest phrases in the local language.
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Aug 16, 2016 12:52
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Tamarillo posted:I know my French pronunciation is truly, truly appalling and I garble even simple words so when in Paris I mostly kept with "Bonjour!" and a slightly sheepish "Parlez-vous anglais?" When we were sitting on the lawn in front of the Eiffel tower a drunk guy came up and started talking in rapid French and I interrupted him with a "Sorry..Anglais!" and his response was "Anglais?....Hahahaha! Peesss! Sheeeet! Hahahaha!" and then he tumbled into a bush and I didn't see him again. This was the only instance where any Parisian had any noticeable reaction to my bad accent and poor French. lol
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Aug 16, 2016 14:04
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Kopijeger posted:Really now? Let me tell you about some of my experiences in your city: Well, maybe I should have said 'will dislike you less if you can speak French instead of English'.
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Aug 17, 2016 00:08
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People who work in the heavily touristy areas of cities like NYC or Paris or London tend to be perpetually annoyed no matter what language is being spoken to them by whom. It's nothing to do with the culture of the surrounding country or even the rest of the city, it's just that working in those kinds of areas tends to have that effect on people over time.
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Aug 17, 2016 00:40
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Earwicker posted:People who work in the heavily touristy areas of cities like NYC or Paris or London tend to be perpetually annoyed no matter what language is being spoken to them by whom. It's nothing to do with the culture of the surrounding country or even the rest of the city, it's just that working in those kinds of areas tends to have that effect on people over time. Yeah no. Paris and France routinely win "rudest place for tourists" in surveys. Yes, now we're going to hear again that "some disagree".
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Aug 17, 2016 01:04
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Earwicker posted:People who work in the heavily touristy areas of cities like NYC or Paris or London tend to be perpetually annoyed no matter what language is being spoken to them by whom. It's nothing to do with the culture of the surrounding country or even the rest of the city, it's just that working in those kinds of areas tends to have that effect on people over time. It's like living in a retail job.
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Aug 17, 2016 02:31
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Kopijeger posted:Funny thing is, this happens to tourists as well. When I was in your city in april of last year, I took the train to Versailles and out of the blue some African-type fellow asked me "C'est le train vers Versailles?" Why he jumped aboard the train before making sure it was the right one I will never know, but I had to tell him that I was a foreign tourist and didn't know. In any case, if you have to ask directions it seems foolish to pester random passersby (chances are they are tourists as well if you are in a touristy area) instead of seeking out someone who is likely to know, like the staff of local businesses. Why on earth do people do this? A few years ago I was in centre of Nijmegen, I was stopped leaning against a building with my face in a map and a huge backpack. Some woman came up to me and asked me how to find the Primark!
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Aug 17, 2016 12:06
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Tourists can know things, too. Especially regarding touristy things -- a subject on which tourists are generally better informed than local residents. People ask me for info all the time when I'm travelling, for some reason. Sometimes I know and can help them, other times not. It's not really much of an imposition.
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Aug 17, 2016 16:15
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I live in a touristy area of a big city (not Paris/NYC big, but big), and when people ask me where a certain thing is, I don't always have an answer 
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Aug 17, 2016 17:48
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When I lived in San Francisco, my standard response was to send everyone to BART, and give them a random station (depending on my mood and the manners of the tourist).
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Aug 17, 2016 17:56
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insufficient guns posted:Why on earth do people do this? A few years ago I was in centre of Nijmegen, I was stopped leaning against a building with my face in a map and a huge backpack. Some woman came up to me and asked me how to find the Primark! You had a map.
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Aug 24, 2016 17:34
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OP, come back, it's been a week since some ostentatiously outraged hipster has threatened to leave whatever nation they were currently in. We need to maintain the status quo, you know?
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Aug 24, 2016 23:00
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Agean90 posted:America had fucktons of German immigrants so some Americans learn German as a way to get in touch with that I've got great grandma's bible. It's in German. Grandma uses short German phrases from time to time.
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Aug 25, 2016 01:59
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pylb posted:As someone who's lived in Paris most of his life, and deals with tourists daily at his job, I don't think Parisians have an issue with people trying to speak French to them. They mostly have an issue with people speaking to them at all, especially if they're slow about it (whether it's because they're bad at French or they're not sure what they want). If you interrupt an adult Parisian in the street, he's probably going to or coming from work and he's not in the mood and doesn't have the time to help you along. Since it's the most visited place in the world, people asking for directions happens all the time and it can get tiring. I used to tell people all the time that people in NYC are actually overly friendly and will talk to you almost unprompted, just not in the subway.
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Aug 25, 2016 02:03
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Are there cities where strangers do talk to you on the subway? That sounds awful
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Aug 28, 2016 02:08
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:Are there cities where strangers do talk to you on the subway? That sounds awful Chicago, although when I offered a fifth of whiskey to strangers on the train they refused
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Aug 28, 2016 15:56
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strangers do talk to you in the subway in NYC, just not during rush hour and not as frequently as other places in the city
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Aug 28, 2016 16:01
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Tequila Sunrise posted:Since this thread is now just about languages or whatever, what is the attitude of French and German speakers towards foreigners trying to speak their languages? I didn't read any of the posts in between but French people love people attempting to speak French. They, more than most, like to watch tourists at least attempt to speak their language rather than just launching into English and assuming they will respond. I have seen French people feign being unable to speak English to some person, then speak it 5 minutes later fluently to somebody who at least attempted to ask them a question in French. They are kinda prideful about their language, although I get the sense that newer generations are a bit rebellious against that whole thing. They are usually pretty happy to speak English.
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Aug 28, 2016 18:21
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Jeza posted:I didn't read any of the posts in between but French people love people attempting to speak French. They, more than most, like to watch tourists at least attempt to speak their language rather than just launching into English and assuming they will respond. If only they did the same thing when they go abroad. Speaking from personal experience, in the German city of Köln (Cologne) I was suddenly approached by a teenage boy with a stereotypically French appearance and an obvious French accent who saw fit to ask me, out of all the other tourists around, something like "hey...where izz double-u c?". He did this in lieu of preparing in advance and learning three basic words: "Entschuldigung", "Toilette" and "Bitte". The next day, I was walking along a street in the same city and there were a trio of young women going the other way. One of them went "Excuse me, do you speak English" with an obvious French accent instead of learning the German for "I don't speak your language. Do you know French or English?".
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Aug 28, 2016 19:19
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mastershakeman posted:Chicago, although when I offered a fifth of whiskey to strangers on the train they refused I will never go to Chicago.
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Aug 28, 2016 19:46
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Making a major life decision based on US news media? Great idea!
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Aug 28, 2016 20:20
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Jeza posted:I didn't read any of the posts in between but French people love people attempting to speak French. They, more than most, like to watch tourists at least attempt to speak their language rather than just launching into English and assuming they will respond. I have seen French people feign being unable to speak English to some person, then speak it 5 minutes later fluently to somebody who at least attempted to ask them a question in French. This here is a forum with many somewhat intellectual Americans. Those typically underestimate two things: 1) The difficulty of learning a foreign language and the amount of time it takes. 2) The importance and acceptability of English. It's simply not feasible or an efficient use of time to learn a whole language for a one-time touristy trip to a country that lasts a few days. It's also not unheard of that people travel through several European countries with different languages in a few days/weeks. I remember with amusement a thread here many years ago where someone asked about visiting Prague over the weekend and people making GBS threads themselves with rage about why he was too insensitive to learn conversational Czech. I doubt any Czech people had a problem with that. From statistics and what I read, the French just seem to be douchey outliers with their expectations, it's probably because they've lost some cultural influence over the last century to the English-speaking world. Kopijeger posted:If only they did the same thing when they go abroad. Speaking from personal experience, in the German city of Köln (Cologne) I was suddenly approached by a teenage boy with a stereotypically French appearance and an obvious French accent who saw fit to ask me, out of all the other tourists around, something like "hey...where izz double-u c?". He did this in lieu of preparing in advance and learning three basic words: "Entschuldigung", "Toilette" and "Bitte". The next day, I was walking along a street in the same city and there were a trio of young women going the other way. One of them went "Excuse me, do you speak English" with an obvious French accent instead of learning the German for "I don't speak your language. Do you know French or English?". Boohoo. I didn't know there were Germans (if you're German) with that attitude, I thought it was limited to the French. I've helped people in several languages, and I never even thought "Couldn't they at least have learned these n-1 words in one of my holy languages? I am so offended and shall not respond or, better, I will direct them away from the crapper, haha!". Language is completely irrelevant to me in such situations. They're not harming anyone by this and intend no harm. To be an rear end to them is not warranted.
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Aug 28, 2016 23:17
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flavor posted:It's simply not feasible or an efficient use of time to learn a whole language for a one-time touristy trip to a country that lasts a few days. It's also not unheard of that people travel through several European countries with different languages in a few days/weeks. I remember with amusement a thread here many years ago where someone asked about visiting Prague over the weekend and people making GBS threads themselves with rage about why he was too insensitive to learn conversational Czech. I doubt any Czech people had a problem with that. Even for a short trip, it would be worthwhile learning some of the most basic stuff in order to interpret common signs and the like. quote:Boohoo. I didn't know there were Germans (if you're German) with that attitude, I thought it was limited to the French. I've helped people in several languages, and I never even thought "Couldn't they at least have learned these n-1 words in one of my holy languages? I am so offended and shall not respond or, better, I will direct them away from the crapper, haha!". Language is completely irrelevant to me in such situations. They're not harming anyone by this and intend no harm. To be an rear end to them is not warranted. I'm from a Scandinavian country, for the record. The reason why it annoyed me is not so much that they didn't bother to learn even the basics of the local language, but that they expected a foreign tourist like me to play along with their worldview. If they aren't going to even attempt to act according to local custom, it would probably be better if their limited their attention to professional tourist handlers, like those people who man information booths.
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Aug 29, 2016 07:26
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Kopijeger posted:Even for a short trip, it would be worthwhile learning some of the most basic stuff in order to interpret common signs and the like. That's usually covered in travel guides. Kopijeger posted:I'm from a Scandinavian country, for the record. The reason why it annoyed me is not so much that they didn't bother to learn even the basics of the local language, but that they expected a foreign tourist like me to play along with their worldview. If they aren't going to even attempt to act according to local custom, it would probably be better if their limited their attention to professional tourist handlers, like those people who man information booths. I don't know, did you have "foreign tourist" stamped somewhere on your head or other signs that made that instantly obvious? I've been asked directions in places that I didn't know so well, in which case I said "sorry, I'm not from here", but didn't spend any time being upset about the nerve of people to ask me directions. You have some kind of weird attitude problem with people taking casual quick low-involvement trips to different European countries. I'm absolutely not seeing the slightest issue with someone taking a quick side trip to Poland when they're in Germany for example or vice-versa, and I don't think anyone should have an issue with that. The concept of "it would be polite to learn some of the language" is something I see when people are other people's guests, want to actually live in that country or those kinds of situations.
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Aug 29, 2016 09:32
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flavor posted:I don't know, did you have "foreign tourist" stamped somewhere on your head or other signs that made that instantly obvious? I've been asked directions in places that I didn't know so well, in which case I said "sorry, I'm not from here", but didn't spend any time being upset about the nerve of people to ask me directions. This usually happens in locations where there are plenty other tourists around. And I don't mind being asked about directions if they use the local language to do so. Hell, it has even happened in Italy when I thought I was too pale and northern European to pass as a local. I point them in the right direction if I know, or tell them "I don't know" if not. The key point is this: do they demonstrate a willingness to adapt to the location they are visiting? quote:You have some kind of weird attitude problem with people taking casual quick low-involvement trips to different European countries. I'm absolutely not seeing the slightest issue with someone taking a quick side trip to Poland when they're in Germany for example or vice-versa, and I don't think anyone should have an issue with that. When did I ever say that people shouldn't go on trips? The point is that they shouldn't expect every other person, whether locals or other tourists, to adapt to their whims when they go abroad.
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Aug 29, 2016 10:48
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pylb posted:As someone who's lived in Paris most of his life, and deals with tourists daily at his job, I don't think Parisians have an issue with people trying to speak French to them. They mostly have an issue with people speaking to them at all, especially if they're slow about it (whether it's because they're bad at French or they're not sure what they want). If you interrupt an adult Parisian in the street, he's probably going to or coming from work and he's not in the mood and doesn't have the time to help you along. Since it's the most visited place in the world, people asking for directions happens all the time and it can get tiring. I just wanted to support this: Almost everyone I've met from Paris is extremely nice, moreso than most people in most cities. People in very touristy places are the exception. I'm not sure I've met a less courteous person than the lady running one of the coffee shops across from the Notre Dame. Not that I blame anyone in that sort of job. Even getting a block or two away from that and you're back to normal person territory.
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Aug 29, 2016 11:22
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Kopijeger posted:This usually happens in locations where there are plenty other tourists around. And I don't mind being asked about directions if they use the local language to do so. Hell, it has even happened in Italy when I thought I was too pale and northern European to pass as a local. I point them in the right direction if I know, or tell them "I don't know" if not. The key point is this: do they demonstrate a willingness to adapt to the location they are visiting? They should expect to use the lingua franca of today, english, and get by with it. That is the rational expectation.
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Aug 29, 2016 15:42
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The weirdest experience I ever had was at a laundromat in Madrid. I asked a guy who was there, in Spanish, if he needed to use the dryer, since his washing was done first. Instead of saying, "sorry, I don't speak Spanish," or something like that, he just said, "I haven't got any clue what you're saying," in a rather thick English accent. Like, maybe be a little less surprised that someone in Spain tries Spanish before English if they don't already know what language you speak.
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Aug 29, 2016 16:26
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flavor posted:You have some kind of weird attitude problem with people taking casual quick low-involvement trips to different European countries. I'm absolutely not seeing the slightest issue with someone taking a quick side trip to Poland when they're in Germany for example or vice-versa, and I don't think anyone should have an issue with that. There's nothing wrong with quick trips but IMO it is rude to go to a country and not learn at least rudimentary stuff like hello, thank you, good night, where is the X, etc. Even if I'm just changing planes in the Frankfurt airport for a few hours I'll still greet the people who work there in German first before resorting to English. You don't need to be fully "conversational" and it's really not hard to learn the basics.
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Aug 29, 2016 18:03
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiVRlNKEgew&t=9s
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Aug 29, 2016 19:27
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Earwicker posted:There's nothing wrong with quick trips but IMO it is rude to go to a country and not learn at least rudimentary stuff like hello, thank you, good night, where is the X, etc. Even if I'm just changing planes in the Frankfurt airport for a few hours I'll still greet the people who work there in German first before resorting to English. You don't need to be fully "conversational" and it's really not hard to learn the basics. Yeah, in pretty much any language, you can learn 10-15 basic words in 10 minutes. Except Basque, which is insane and makes no sense to me -- but I still learned hello, please and thank you.
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Aug 29, 2016 19:58
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