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Pretty straight forward: -What makes a leader? -Do you think you are a leader? -How do you become a leader? I know this is a pretty flimsy first post, but I don't know what else, or how else to ask the question. I hope you guys can give me some answers. Help me find my way-- and in doing so, might help others who are seeking an answer to the same. There are times when I feel like a leader. When I feel like I have the answers. When people listen to me. And there are times when I don't know what to do; I don't have the answers, and no one is willing to follow me. And I think a real leader doesn't always know the answer, doesn't always know what to do, but is unshaken and undeterred. Edit: GOD drat, I hosed UP THE THREAD TITLE  mods, please change to "Tell me what makes a leader"
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Jul 19, 2016 00:16
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Leader of what?
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Jul 19, 2016 01:18
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Leader of people.
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Jul 19, 2016 04:17
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Leadership. More specifically, informal leadership, like what happens when a group of people are together, and they follow someone without any official prompting or obligation, but I'd also like to hear about it in a professional sense; i.e. what makes a good boss?
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Jul 19, 2016 04:25
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High CHA score or fear of death, depending on alignment.
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Jul 19, 2016 07:56
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The Bananana posted:Leadership. More specifically, informal leadership, like what happens when a group of people are together, and they follow someone without any official prompting or obligation, but I'd also like to hear about it in a professional sense; i.e. what makes a good boss? Honestly the best leaders are ones that can delegate work and not micromanage. They have to be competent and be willing to do themselves what they tell other people to do.
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Jul 19, 2016 08:13
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Slavvy posted:High CHA score or fear of death, depending on alignment. Tour speaking of a sort of cult of personality type thing? So, a leader is... likeable? Or is that necessarily the case?
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Jul 19, 2016 08:48
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If you want to be a good boss then earn the respect of the people you work with, understand that your role is to support them, they're not there to serve you, and don't play favorites, also be a generally personable and likeable individual. If you want to be the next Hannibal then you're going to need some pretty extraordinary circumstances because major historical leaders are generally so by virtue of being in the right place at the right time.
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Jul 19, 2016 14:22
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I would say "do your own homework" but if your essay prompts are this insipid you should probably just find another class.
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Jul 19, 2016 14:24
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OwlFancier posted:If you want to be a good boss then earn the respect of the people you work with, understand that your role is to support them, they're not there to serve you, and don't play favorites, also be a generally personable and likeable individual. Thanks, it's the former, not the latter. (Though I would turn down the the Hannibal thing if it were an option, lol) I think it's easy to look at a boss and say "oh he does this wrong or that wrong, i wont be like that," but when your actually in that position, the pressure to perform can be crazy.
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Jul 19, 2016 15:48
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:I would say "do your own homework" but if your essay prompts are this insipid you should probably just find another class. Hey friend, not sure what's prompted this antagonism, but maybe take, like, a break or something, and when you're ready to contribute, feel free to come back and discuss the topic at hand.
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Jul 19, 2016 16:14
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The ability to motivate other people to do things without coercion.
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Jul 19, 2016 18:54
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grack posted:The ability to motivate other people to do things without coercion. Some people who otherwise wouldn't do what they are obligated to do require coercion. I think a good leader can figure which people are like that and which aren't and apply the proper end of the carrot tied to a stick. Blackchamber fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Jul 19, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 19:35
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grack posted:The ability to motivate other people to do things without coercion. coercion, or incentive, don't you think? Like, in my opinion: If you coerce, then they'll only listen to you as long as you're around, and can provide that threat of consequence, so either you'll constantly be dealing with high turnover, and/or work won't get done once you go home. And if you incentivize, then they'll only follow you as long as you have something they want. So you'll either go broke trying to fund their next carrot and/or you'll cultivate an atmosphere that will fill your team with people who wont mind leaving for somewhere/one else who has a bigger, better carrot. yeah?
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Jul 19, 2016 20:21
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The Bananana posted:coercion, or incentive, don't you think? This isn't even remotely true. Have you ever worked in an office environment? Or for that matter in any kind of job anywhere? If so you should know that some people won't be bothered to do even the bare minimum if there's no incentive/coercion to do otherwise. Yeah, sure "do your job or you'll be fired" or is motivation enough for some people, but others it's not. If you want people to do more than the bare necessity, well, you need to find a way to motivate them to do that. Coercion or threats only go so far and after that you need to find positive reinforcement or you'll just turn people off.. Secondly, MONEY DOESN'T MOTIVATE EVERYONE. It motivates a lot of people for sure, but not everyone. Promotions, increased responsibilities, recognition, competitions, gifts, prizes (eg. trips), and positive feedback from authority figures can all be very powerful motivators for the right person. If you want to be an effective leader you need to find out what motivates people and then apply it in a way that furthers your/your organization's goals. Is this manipulation? Maybe, but it doesn't have to be especially if increased performance is in the best interests of the person (ie. better job security or increased salary). Blackchamber posted:Some people who otherwise wouldn't do what they are obligated to do require coercion. I think a good leader can figure which people are like that and which aren't and apply the proper end of the carrot tied to a stick. You're not wrong, but the point I'm trying to make is that good leaders find ways of motivating people other than coercion.
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Jul 19, 2016 21:31
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The ability to make decisions in a timely manner is a good start. If your hit ratio on those being good decisions is higher than 50% you are probably more qualified as a leader than any general in the history of man.
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Jul 19, 2016 21:52
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Here, have some thoughts from the white-collar infotech creatives fintech buzzword world. There's a thing called 'servant leadership' where your role as a leader is to identify anything that can be in the way of success for your reports, and then resolving as many of them as possible before your team gets there. It's not always possible, incredibly hard and time-consuming, and if you do it properly no one will know you've done anything. On the upside, your team will never feel frustrated with their workload, or that there's a blocker, et cetera; which is really motivating and people seem to enjoy it. The other bit I use a lot is that as a leader, I can either tell someone either what to do or how to do it, but not both. This keeps people from feeling micromanaged, and also encourages people to find their own strategies and techniques, which leads to their personal and career growth in the long run. And honestly, in the fields I've worked in, people who need specific procedures to execute specific jobs are usually pretty mismatched to the work, and this allows us to come to an understanding before the company or lab has really invested a lot of time or training in someone who isn't going to work out.
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Jul 20, 2016 00:10
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Thank you Grack, for helping me see that incentivization can be more than just money. Even just helping your employees Establish a sense of pride in their work might help incentivize them to meet or even exceed expectations. Rhymenoserous posted:The ability to make decisions in a timely manner is a good start. If your hit ratio on those being good decisions is higher than 50% you are probably more qualified as a leader than any general in the history of man. This is good. Thanks. But I would ask: how do you make the split second crucial decisions, if you don't know the answer. Is the answer to that "if you don't know the answer to questions you may be faced with, and that others will look to you for answers to, you should not be in charge"?
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Jul 20, 2016 00:22
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I'd say that the thing that trips most people up is micromanagement. Better that they complete a task acceptably, than you perfectly. It's like having managers serving tables in a restaurant, it just isn't their job. Beyond that I've found that you don't really need to have an innate force of personality to lead, most people are uncertain and will follow whoever speaks up first. In hierarchical structures it's even easier since all you have to do is be worthy of their trust. Admit when you make mistakes, criticise constructively, don't take things personally, and keep a professional emotional distance.
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Jul 20, 2016 01:38
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I had a manager that should have taught classes on management. He worked with people with anger issues, alcoholics and drug abusers and got them all to give their best effort for the most part. First step, he worked harder than anyone there and we knew it. He knew the job backwards and forwards so he could speak with authority on everything. He didn't have a chip on his shoulder, nothing to prove. He was fair. Do your job, don't be a distraction, that's all he asked. Some people were better, nobody was a favorite. He had MS and an ex-wife and frequent back pain. He take out the bad day he was having on you. He had a fantastic sense of humor. Billy Idol on the radio? He'll tell you about the Billy Idol concerts he went to. He kept the mood light and focused on work. Mistakes happen, don't worry about assigning blame JUST FIX IT and move on.
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Jul 20, 2016 03:35
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The Bananana posted:Thank you Grack, for helping me see that incentivization can be more than just money. Even just helping your employees If you don't know how to do something, find someone who does, either know the people you work with well enough to know who to ask and be appropriately thankful when they bail you out, or know your business structure well enough to know who you have to bother higher up in order to get the answer. Your job is to be both intermediary and advocate for your team.
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Jul 20, 2016 21:16
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OwlFancier posted:If you don't know how to do something, find someone who does, either know the people you work with well enough to know who to ask and be appropriately thankful when they bail you out, or know your business structure well enough to know who you have to bother higher up in order to get the answer. Your job is to be both intermediary and advocate for your team. Dont you think this could impact your followers confidence in you?
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Jul 21, 2016 00:24
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The Bananana posted:Dont you think this could impact your followers confidence in you? Yes; it positively impacts other's confidence in you when you don't pretend to know all the answers and are able to find solutions to challenging problems. If you don't know something, attempting to conceal your ignorance makes you look embarrassed and defensive. Saying "I don't know; let me look that up" or, even better, "I don't know; let me find out who knows and can help us" shows that you feel secure in your own abilities and that the team's success is more important to you than personal prestige. Nobody knows everything, and everybody knows that. People who try to pretend that they do just look insecure.
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Jul 21, 2016 02:13
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OP, I pose this question to you to explain what leadership means allegorically: During intercourse you decide to broach the subject of anal sex. Do you stop and ask politely, "hey, can I put it in your butt?", or do you make a gentle 'Freudian slip' and go until (if) you are stopped?
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Jul 21, 2016 03:12
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Moose_Knuck posted:OP, I pose this question to you to explain what leadership means allegorically: That's quite the allegory.  In any case, and I wonder how telling this may be (if it even is any measure of leadership, lol) butt I did ask. And she said yes. And I learned that I don't quite fancy doing it. But that is anecdotal, so ymmv. The Bananana fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Jul 21, 2016 |
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Jul 21, 2016 03:36
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The best leaders are the ones who make things easier for everyone around them. That doesn't mean they take on the work themselves, it means they focus on continuous improvement of both people and processes.
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Jul 21, 2016 04:58
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Do you know what leadership means, The Bananana? It means that the person in charge gets second-guessed by every clever little twat with a mouth. But if he starts second-guessing himself, that's the end. For him... for the clever little twats... for everyone. This is not the end, not for us. Not if you lot do your duty for however long it takes to beat them back. And then you get to go on hating me, and I get to go on wishing your wildling whore had finished the job.
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Jul 21, 2016 07:55
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The Bananana posted:That's quite the allegory. It's kind of a trick question. Both answers are right. You have to know your people, know your environment, make a decision based on the best information you have, act on that decision, and when it is all said and done; stand by your decision and accept responsibility for it if things go wrong. In your case, you made and acted on the decision, and if you were willing to take responsibility for "spoiling the mood" or offending her somehow, then yes, you displayed leadership.
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Jul 21, 2016 15:10
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First you have to fail art school.
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Jul 21, 2016 16:04
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BooLoo posted:First you have to fail art school. Will failing liberal arts suffice?
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Jul 21, 2016 23:07
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I'll take a shot. I used to coordinate a couple hundred volunteers for a festival. I had 250 volunteers the first year, though by the last year we'd had to downsize significantly and I only had about 100. A lot of them came back year after year, and quite a few were willing to follow me to other projects. I generally call my style leading-from-the-side. I have zero interest in being at the head of the army--I just want to see us win the war. Delegate, problem-solve, support, and communicate. I was fortunate enough to have very good bosses when I started the festival and had no idea what I was doing. I copied whatever they did with me that I found motivating, and gradually settled into a style that worked for most of my team. 1. Good will is a resource. A very valuable one. Respecting people's time, thanking them for their contributions, and understanding their stake in the project/job is worth your time. It's especially true in volunteering initiatives because people aren't working for money, but it carries over to everywhere else. Dunno about you, but I'm way more likely to be positive about overtime work in the office if my boss appreciates that I'm there and thanks me for being a team player. 2. Micromanaging is a last resort. Give people clear goals, instructions where necessary, and have a little faith they'll get it done. People inherently like proving positive assumptions about them correct. Check ins are cool, working alongside them for a bit is often smart, but mostly an affirmation that your door is open to questions at any time is sufficient if people have the tools they need. I learned this from my festival boss, who was over-worked but if you tapped on her door, she'd come see you as soon as she got off the phone or whatever. 3. Apologize for your poo poo. If you gently caress up or treat someone poorly, admit it. Also learned this from my boss. Admitting when you make a mistake sets a culture where your team feel safe doing the same. Likewise, admit it when you don't know an answer. 4. Set your culture, and model the behaviour you expect from your team. I'm not super charismatic, and I'm kind of a cynical rear end in a top hat, but when I was working I tried to be positive, tell people when they were doing well, and never focused on blame where volunteers could hear me. The younger volunteers especially tended to pick up the theme of "we're in this together," and took care of each other if someone was having a rough day. Not all leaders want that kind of culture, but it's the only kind of leading I'm comfortable with. I'm all carrot, no stick. Results may vary. 5. Find people who are great at things, and ask them to do those things for you. Acknowledge that they are great at those things in front of other team members. 6. If someone sucks at the thing you want them to do, give them better tools, adjust your expectations, or shift them elsewhere instead of criticizing them. This is because... 7. Dissatisfaction is a splinter-bomb of demotivation. I really liked it when things were running fast but smoothly, and all I had to do was keep things on course. A large part of what made me effective was having leadership above me who gave me the rein to do as I pleased, trusting I'd get it done. (And I wanted to prove them right!) We were all focused on the festival as the ultimate goal, but within that structure, I was able to make the well-being of our volunteers my priority. If management had only measured my success by the number of volunteers I trained up, the results probably would have looked different, and it sure as hell wouldn't have been as much fun. The festival has been dead for a few years, but I still run into my "blue shirts" around the city.  They miss it too.I have a BA in History and a post-bach in Journalism, so yeah... go team Poor Academic Choices! Pixelante fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Jul 22, 2016 |
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Jul 22, 2016 01:21
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Very good stuff pixel. Thank you for sharing.Tequila Sunrise posted:Do you know what leadership means, The Bananana? It means that the person in charge gets second-guessed by every clever little twat with a mouth. But if he starts second-guessing himself, that's the end. For him... for the clever little twats... for everyone. This is not the end, not for us. Not if you lot do your duty for however long it takes to beat them back. And then you get to go on hating me, and I get to go on wishing your wildling whore had finished the job. Let's not forget Jon Snow was killed by his own people. What does that say about his leadership style, which I would have considered to be pretty good. (I know it's fiction, but work with me here)
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Jul 22, 2016 04:18
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followers.
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Jul 22, 2016 04:21
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The Bananana posted:Very good stuff pixel. Thank you for sharing. You're welcome. And actually, that's not far off. Being the leader of anything means that you're taking responsibility for the outcome--so you're going to be held accountable for the actions of other people. In an unhealthy workplace (as most of them are, I think) that often feels adversarial and can get ugly. It's upsetting to find out that your team let you down, or that you let them down by not helping them, especially if you're not sure what went wrong. Any time someone was unhappy with a volunteer--even if it was their own goddamn fault for whatever situation they'd put that volunteer in--I got to hear about it. One of the staff members was, I'm fairly sure, totally oblivious to how racist she was. She was frustrated with having her requests handled as an afterthought and she probably felt I was garbage at my job. I was okay with pretending to be confused when she complained about things. And yeah, she had to pull longer days because of it. So did I, a couple times, but I'm white so she wasn't a dickhead to me when I personally filled in shifts I'd been "unable" to staff for her. There is no such thing as a perfect team. If no one is an rear end in a top hat to work with, you're the rear end in a top hat. There's always someone who earns their role as the resentment lightning rod, and sometimes it's even someone who was fine the year before. The best way to not be that person, I think, is to give a poo poo about what the work load of people around you looks like, and how you affect it. Pixelante fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Jul 22, 2016 |
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Jul 22, 2016 04:46
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Pixelante posted:You're welcome. Ive been reading a lot about "Toxic Leadership" and how it can present, and what effects it can have on your team and the workplace. Can anyone answer the question that always comes to mind when dealing with these types: How did they get put in charge?
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Jul 22, 2016 16:37
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The Bananana posted:Ive been reading a lot about "Toxic Leadership" and how it can present, and what effects it can have on your team and the workplace. Bad leaders beget bad leaders in any number of ways: Competent people who can leave do so, non-confrontational people avoid the situation and pretend it doesn't exist, impressionable people learn that 'leadership' involves the same toxic actions and attitudes that they suffered, etc. Toxic leaders end up in charge by virtue of getting results, sucking up to the person above them, driving out their competition, being the senior member, whatever. There's no real way to generalize it because every situation is different.
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Jul 22, 2016 20:49
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The Bananana posted:Dont you think this could impact your followers confidence in you? Given that the alternative is waffling and guessing randomly, unless you are extremely lucky, you either do that or you come across as an incompetent idiot. People will notice if you fail to get results and disclaim any responsibility for the failure. It won't make you any friends. Better to acknowledge the skills of your team and your place in the organization than to try to look like king poo poo of gently caress mountain all the time even when you're not. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Jul 22, 2016 |
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Jul 22, 2016 22:10
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^ Always be decisive, even if it's, "okay, here's what we're going to do until we figure out something better." Unless you delegate a person to solve that confusion, you're creating a stressful social dynamic. I'm in some university courses now and the group projects make me stabby. They tell us it's good practice for the real world, but in no universe are you going to have a half dozen strangers all at the same level of authority working on a project together. (For bonus lols, they're online courses and half the students aren't even in this city.) A lot of the time, people who are really good at something end up getting promoted to leading a team who do that thing. Unfortunately, sometimes they suck at leading. I taught English abroad for a bit, and the woman who managed us was a fantastic ESL teacher. Just goddamn genius--she had the students all riveted with a mix of authority and entertainment that I couldn't match on my best days. However, when it came to managing other teachers, she was a blind, arrogant, abusive rear end in a top hat. She made an 18-year-old boy cry on his first day for no good reason. I went out of my way to call her out on every single dick thing she did until other management shifted me out from under cloven hooves. (100% a dick move on my part too, but I was there to not lead for awhile.) Both of us hated it, but I couldn't stop myself from poking her over and over. I don't like bullies. The skills that make a good leader are also uniquely double-edged and can backfire if they're not kept in check. Pixelante fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Jul 24, 2016 |
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Jul 24, 2016 07:52
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Lol. My 2nd day as department Lead, and I get hospitalised and have an appendectomy.
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Jul 27, 2016 01:33
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On the plus side you can definitely tell people you've learned from the experience and taken the necessary steps to ensure it doesn't happen again.
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Jul 27, 2016 02:12
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