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photomikey posted:You don't have to be a jerk, but be clear and firm. If they disagree, hear them out. Then tell them the way it's going to be. This is right on the money.
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Aug 20, 2016 03:43
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photomikey posted:You would think that laying down the law would be the dick thing to do, but people crave it. I concur. Also, you can ask questions that are open-ended about their performance. Like... "we're a bit behind on the timeline I had in mind for this work. Are there any blocking issues that I didn't anticipate? Do you have everything you need?" The important thing is to a) acknowledge the workflow problem, and b) give them a non-binary option to respond. Yeah, you can be pretty sure they're screwing the pooch because no one needs six breaks a day, but maybe they're struggling to communicate with someone, a printer broke, or their personal life is going down in flames.
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Aug 20, 2016 08:51
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The boss, of the boss, of my boss stops by every day or so just to say hi and ask how things are going. People love him.
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Aug 21, 2016 00:07
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If you wish to harvest a healthy crop of genius, spend two years encouraging the mediocre. If you wish to build a boat, don't begin by studying carpentry and architecture - though you may have to at some point. Begin by fostering around you a longing for the sea.
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Sep 1, 2016 09:54
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that's a stupid phrase, you can always just find some one whose willing to pay for the boat. You don't even need to live near the sea, a river or lane provides plenty of demand why do I even need carpentry, what if I make it out of fiberglass, what then have you ever even built a boat Agean90 fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Sep 1, 2016 |
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Sep 1, 2016 17:40
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Quote ain't edit as it turns out
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Sep 1, 2016 17:44
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Pixelante posted:I concur. Also, you can ask questions that are open-ended about their performance. Like... "we're a bit behind on the timeline I had in mind for this work. Are there any blocking issues that I didn't anticipate? Do you have everything you need?" The important thing is to a) acknowledge the workflow problem, and b) give them a non-binary option to respond. Yeah, you can be pretty sure they're screwing the pooch because no one needs six breaks a day, but maybe they're struggling to communicate with someone, a printer broke, or their personal life is going down in flames.
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Sep 1, 2016 18:52
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photomikey posted:I like that line of questioning because when they come up with something, and I fix it, and we're still behind, I can bust their rear end because they're taking their sixth break and start building a record to get rid of them. gently caress diamonds, paper-trails are a girl's best friend. I also follow up on conversations like that with an email saying something like, "Thanks for meeting with me today. I'd like to make sure I didn't miss anything that's important for you. Moving forward, I'll confirm workflow with Bob, and you'll let me know if you run into any additional complications as they happen. Is there anything you'd like to add or clarify?" That way, when they say "no, looks good," you can hang them with it later. Or if they say "that's great but it doesn't fix X" then you've got clarification and maybe realise there are bigger gaps in your knowledge than you thought. Either way, you look like a diligent manager and no one can be mad about meeting terms being confirmed so all parties have to follow through.
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Sep 1, 2016 19:04
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And... sometimes you can be genuinely surprised that with that level of follow up, a dialogue ensues, you can fix some issues, and you can turn an underperforming employee into someone who can at least keep up.
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Sep 1, 2016 19:36
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photomikey posted:And... sometimes you can be genuinely surprised that with that level of follow up, a dialogue ensues, you can fix some issues, and you can turn an underperforming employee into someone who can at least keep up. Yup! I find that in a lot of companies, there's a real rift between management knowledge, and front-line knowledge, which is made worse by weird ideas of how a leader should behave. I was so astonished and grateful to have a boss who routinely checked in with, "hey, how's it going?" and actually wanted to know what was going well or what was frustrating. A lot of the time, the onus is nominally on the employee to tell their managers if there's an obstacle, but at the same time there aren't safe opportunities to do so. The result is a manager who feels betrayed by staff who failed to meet expectations, and staff who are burned out and resentful of management having unreasonable expectations. Of course, my job was managing volunteers, so it was expected that I'd spend hours every week zipping around to work areas and making sure people were having fun. A lot of managers are burdened with more work than they can reasonably carry while still giving a poo poo if the QA team got their coffee break.
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Sep 1, 2016 20:04
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I'm a professional business analyst and project manager, my boss and I specialise in what is called organisational transformation (i.e. introducing large-scale change to an organisation), so I guess I have some ideas on leadership. (Please note that English is my second language so I'm sorry if something doesn't make sense.) First of all, it is important to understand the difference between a leader and a manager. Ultimately being a leader is about doing the right thing, and being a manager is about doing the things right. A common example of this would be say, a soccer team that has a coach and a manager. The coach leads the training sessions, forms a training plan, builds a relationship with the players, and generally takes care of their well-being - all for the purpose of ensuring that they can play well in a match. A manager facilitates the coach and the team to be able to train and compete, e.g. they book the training venue, communicate with other teams or the state/national organisation, look after registration/payment, etc. These are clearly two separate roles with separate skills - note that neither of them need to actually be good at playing soccer! There has already been a lot of posts about some good points, e.g. minimise micro-management, don't tell people off publicly, stay chill and don't be afraid of apologising, etc. They're all true and will definitely help. However, I'd like to pull out some things I have learned throughout my career, based on international framework (ITIL), methodology (PRINCE2), and standards (ISO 20000, ISO 9000). 1. Outcome-focussed. Outcome means, what do you actually want to do? For example, desired outcomes of coaching a particular a soccer team might be: building relationship across the neighbourhood through a common sport/interest; fielding a professional-level team to compete at the national championships; promote fitness/health, teamwork, and fun for children in the area; etc. Basically by understanding what outcomes you want, you're able to ensure that everything you do MUST lead to these outcomes - otherwise, it's out of scope and should not even be looked at. 2. Being objective. Objective means, what is it that you have to do in order to succeed in achieving your outcomes? Being objective is very closely related to making decisions, i.e. you should ensure that you separate your personal feelings/emotions from business decisions. Someone earlier wrote about "your workers will steal your pens/etc - don't worry about it" - this is true! Don't worry about small stuff - worry about the bigger stuff first. I have worked in a government organisation on several multi-million dollar projects, that they were enormously loving up (before we came in), and we still had someone filing a complaint against us for "excessive printing" (to the cost of $200). Being objective means seeing past the small stuff and understand that as long as we are working together towards our goals, don't worry about the small stuff. 3. Fact-based decision making. It is extremely important to not make poo poo up, but to learn from what happened in the past so you can improve what you're doing and not make stupid mistakes. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" - and it is always much wiser to learn from other people's mistakes than your own. This principle also helps you make tough decisions, e.g. if you have to fire someone, or tell someone off, etc - if you pull out records and evidence, then no one can accuse you of bullying/discrimination etc. 4. Having discipline. Discipline is simply a pattern of behaviour, that speaks of your character. Whether you care about work or meetings or not, if you are always punctual and turn up on time, people will respect you and you will appear dedicated and serious. Being consistent in what you do is very important when you want to lead by example - if you are reliable, others will be happy to do the same for you. 5. Perception management. This is simply how you appear to others. There is the whole "don't judge a book by its cover", but in reality this is bullshit, and everyone judges each other by looks and body language indiscriminately - and it gets worse exponentially the higher up you get. If you turn up to an important business meeting wearing sandals with socks and toilet paper trailing off your jorts, it's just not a good look. Regardless of the quality of work you put out, if you don't know how to present yourself, it will be extremely hard to succeed. 6. Structure. It is important that what you do has a structure. In business term we would have a "process", defined as: "a structured set of activities designed to accomplish a specific objective". For example, you don't want to turn up to a business meeting, and then someone asks "right, who wants to present today? Uhhh Kyle, go talk about that problem we had earlier", and Kyle doesn't know what the gently caress because he didn't prepare anything for this meeting, and now it's a waste of everyone's time. Ideally you would have things like: the meeting invite is sent out to everyone 2 weeks early, with a published agenda and last meeting's minutes, Kyle has been asked to make a presentation on issue #1234, and everyone is expected to give their feedback about how Kyle is handling it, etc. Everyone will go into that meeting feeling confident. 7. Roles and responsibilities. It is important that a) everyone knows what they actually need to do, and b) everyone knows what everyone else needs to do. To work as a team, we need to know who's doing what - be transparent in all activities. "Assumption is the mother of all gently caress-ups". 8. Agreement. You need to make sure that there is an agreement in everything we do. For example: roles and responsibilities (agree on who's doing what), activities (this is how we work), plan (at x date we are doing this), outcomes/objectives/goals (we want to work towards this), etc. If you just tell people what to do, that's being a dictator, not a leader. To work as a team, you need to make decisions together as a team - this will lead to people feeling motivated and eager to perform their tasks - "accountability comes from within" (i.e. the best person to do a job is the one that wants to do it). I've written too much already, but hope that helps - if you have any question or want me to elaborate, I'd be happy to.
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Sep 2, 2016 17:00
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Ughhhhhhh. Hell is other people.
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Sep 8, 2016 21:46
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The Marines believe that leaders can be made, not just be lucky enough to be born that way, and the leadership traits they teach are JJ DID TIE BUCKLE. Judgement Justice Decisiveness Integrity Dependability Tact Initiative Enthusiasm Bearing Unselfishness Courage Knowledge Loyalty Endurance. I can't say I disagree.
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Sep 8, 2016 22:00
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The Bananana posted:Ughhhhhhh. I just got my first taste of "When you're in charge, everything is your fault" Any words of wisdom?
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Sep 9, 2016 00:00
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The Bananana posted:I just got my first taste of "When you're in charge, everything is your fault"
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Sep 9, 2016 00:39
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adorai posted:Accept responsibility and work to correct the problem. indeed. I gave my team a talkin' to today, and tomorrow, I'm gonna get my talkin' to, wherein all I'll say is that it was my fault, and I'll work to prevent the problem from happening again. 
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Sep 9, 2016 00:50
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Fully embrace the concept of "when you're in charge, everything is your fault". Apologize, promise to fix it, make good on that promise. Edit: and if your talkin' to is not until tomorrow, the changes you made today count against your rear end chewing. I have actually taken fuckups, made changes, and by the time my rear end chewing came around, it turned into a "good job!".
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Sep 9, 2016 01:12
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There is a wide gap between taking responsibility and taking blanket responsibility. On the flip side there is thin line between explaining what went wrong and sounding like you're making excuses. Your management has the same job as you, to help those under them to get stuff done. Don't be afraid to take responsibility while explaining how and why things went pear shaped. Hopefully those above you have had similar experiences and can give some advice. All this depends on the culture where you work. Some places just want a scape goat so remember this advice is based on ideal conditions.
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Sep 9, 2016 01:35
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I've made a serious mistake Edit to add: my team is turning against me, my superiors are not supporting, and in fact chastising me for not managing my time better, and talking to my team wrong/too "heavy-handed", and I just had a team member... not yelling... What's just beneath yelling? Speak forcefully to me about how he wasn't going to listen to my request, he's been doing his job for longer than I have, and I need to stop micromanaging and trying to change things. Everyone knows what they're doing and I'm being a jerk. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm... 
The Bananana fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Sep 11, 2016 |
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Sep 11, 2016 00:17
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That's a bit out of line considering you haven't been in charge very long, personally I'd make it clear that out and out insubordination is not something you'll accept and that there will be disciplinary consequences if they don't follow instructions. I trust there are actual issues that you are trying to rectify, if so, have your plan and reasoning established to present to your superiors when they want to know what you're doing, and do what you need to to ensure your instructions are carried out, if that means threats, so be it. Don't lead with threats but people should be aware that they will be made and followed up on if necessary. You should be pleasant to work with as long as effort is being made, and they should fear what will happen if they don't make that effort.
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Sep 11, 2016 00:30
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OwlFancier posted:I trust there are actual issues that you are trying to rectify,[...] You'd better believe it. I'm not just up there giving orders or directions so that I can feel like top dawg or Billy big bollocks! OwlFancier posted:[...] if so, have your plan and reasoning established to present to your superiors when they want to know what you're doing, and do what you need to to ensure your instructions are carried out, [...] I really like this idea. I'm going to try it out. OwlFancier posted:[...] if that means threats, so be it. Don't lead with threats but people should be aware that they will be made and followed up on if necessary. You should be pleasant to work with as long as effort is being made, and they should fear what will happen if they don't make that effort. See, this is what I thought I was doing. I bought these guys breakfast, coffee on the reg. Take care of them, make sure they get there fair share of breaks and stuff. If customers are giving them any trouble I'm there to help. I compliment individuals as well as the team as a whole when the work it looks good. But when it comes time to fix the issues I am seeing, suddenly it's "we know how to do our jobs", or "nah, I don't feel like doing that", and that's not counting what happened today. Geezer. I just... it makes me wonder: am I what's wrong with this situation? Like, the saying "you run into an rear end in a top hat in the morning; you ran into an rear end in a top hat. You run into assholes all day; maybe you're the rear end in a top hat." 
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Sep 11, 2016 05:51
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The Bananana posted:I just... it makes me wonder: am I what's wrong with this situation? You're part of it, for sure. Accept that, keep yourself open to better ways of doing things, and forgive yourself for not being telepathic, leadership-trained, or having the charisma of Bono. Relationships, especially ones with a lot of contact and a lot of responsibility, aren't static things. They're alchemy--sometimes things blend easily, sometimes they explode, and sometimes the cause of a failure (or a success) wasn't in your hands. I disagree that threats are a solid move, but I don't know what you're dealing with. Also, the cards I have in a game like that aren't the same ones as yours, especially if you're male and/or a different age than I am. A lot of my tactics are, admittedly, ones I internalised as a woman in the gaming industry during my 20s. I think your best play is to ask your superiors for specifics of what they'd like accomplished (assuming you don't already know that), and ask for their advice for navigating your biggest obstacles. (Caveat: don't ask for their help, just advice. Also, don't throw any of your staff under the bus--generalities. Yeah, they can infer, but if you whine about how Bob is all up in your grill every time you ask him to do something, you're shooting yourself in the foot.) Document any discussions with a follow-up email to clarify intentions. The other half of that play is to take the specifics to your staff and ask them what you (collective you) need in order to reach those goals. Maybe they need you to hover less. Maybe the goals are unreasonable for their paygrade, and you need to relay that to management. Maybe you need to adjust your work-flow and take a larger chunk of the puzzle. Strategically speaking, I'd give them a heads-up that you want to talk to all of them individually, then start working through your team after giving them some time to talk to each other without you in earshot. That way, it's not an ambush. When your work environment is hostile, most surprises are bad. Your staff might be colossal assholes, but you probably can't afford to treat them in kind.
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Sep 11, 2016 06:48
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Do the staff know WHAT you are trying to change and WHY? I've recently moved at work, which means I'm now working with a new team. When I moved there were so very clear "issues" in my new place, and my boss and I already had an idea on what the priorities were. The first thing I did is make that clear to the team. So when someone tells me that they know what they are doing and that I need to step back, I can tell them exactly WHAT they are doing wrong, and exactly WHY it is an issue and needs to be addressed. If the staff think everything is fine, of course they are resistant to change. Of course they are striking out at you. And as a result, of course you are feeling out of your depth.
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Sep 11, 2016 18:57
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OwlFancier posted:out and out insubordination is not something you'll accept and that there will be disciplinary consequences if they don't follow instructions.
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Sep 12, 2016 02:48
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You wouldn't believe it . I don't freaking believe it. I'm just so deflated by the level and number of people coming to me telling me I'm doing a bad job. 3 times now, I've had people say it. My boss Friday , the strong informal-leader type one of my workers yesterday, and today... today even the yes man (you know the type, the one that's all "dont get me wrong, boss, I'm on your side, I'm not like them, I mean, I get what your saying, and I agree with you, it's just other people arent really liking etc etc) I just... I mean... I had a conversation with a higher up today, with more experience confronting and resolving issues with his staff, and he said that from what I told him, to be receiving this level of push back, I must have burnt almost every bridge in my department. And before I can move forward fixing any of the issues I wanted to, I first have to go back and repair all these relationships. Learn from my mistakes, readers. I knew I was under-prepared when I started this thread, and my main goal when starting it was to gain the tools I'd need to lead effectively, but I had no idea I'd wreck things so badly.
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Sep 12, 2016 03:23
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Your problem is less one of leadership, but of management. They are often correlated, but not always. From the sound of it, your people just don't respect you. You can try to go back and fix poo poo, or you can try to rule with an iron fist. at this point, if you are a new manager, I expect you are hosed. Sorry dude
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Sep 12, 2016 05:49
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We need more details to tell you where you went wrong (unless you know where you went wrong and don't need our help). All I can say is that a) caring that you're doing something wrong and b) seeking advice and going so far as to post a thread to ask for help is about 90% more than anyone I know who manages has ever done, it means the world, you are not doomed, if you don't get canned or mutinied, you will come out on the other side a better manager.
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Sep 12, 2016 06:05
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A bunch of low level managers having a pseudo-intellectual discussion about leadership and how it justifies their salaries. That's what makes a leader.
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Sep 12, 2016 07:10
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Even if the fault lies with choices you made, you're not a bad person if you aren't great at this particular skill/talent set. Are any of your critics saying WHY they think you're floundering? If not, they probably suck at leading more. This particular job in that particular company may not be a good fit for you, but the vast majority of jobs aren't either. Don't punish yourself for not being a prodigy at something. Culturally speaking, North America is in its second generation of adults who are in heavy competition for employment. It's created an expectation that new staff will be 100% amazing from day 0, because they probably had to beat out 200+ other people to be there. The generation before mine was willing to hand the torch down to a fresh face who will grow, learn, and age with the company. Now, we don't consider jobs as life-time things, and why pass a torch down when you could just pass it across to someone with heaps of unpaid experience and a desperate need to pay off their student loan debt? In summary, you're not the only factor in your struggles--you're just the one dealing with the consequences.
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Sep 12, 2016 08:14
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The Bananana posted:I just got my first taste of "When you're in charge, everything is your fault" Responsibility: Someone who does the job Accountability: Someone who owns the job (i.e. takes the credit for the job, and gets fired if the job isn't delivered) Consulted: Someone who doesn't do the job but you seek advice from Informed: Someone who doesn't do the job but wants to know what's happening For example, let's say delivering pizza. The shop manager is accountable to ensure pizza gets delivered. The workers are responsible to drive out and deliver them (obviously the manager doesn't do this), but complaints and compliments go to the store manager, because they own the delivery process. So they take credits when it's done well - but also takes the blame if some pizza doesn't get delivered, regardless of whose fault it is, e.g. driver gets into an accident mid-way - the manager should issue an apology to the customer and offer refund/compensation - it would be wrong for the manager to tell the driver to apologise to the customer and refund the pizza out of their own pocket. So yes, if you are the manager/leader, you are accountable on some things, and it will be your burden to bear. Based on your comments - get everything in writing! If they give "look I know what to do/how to do my job, leave me alone", well then ask them to prove it by writing down a plan. They should be able to articulate what they're doing, in general and step-by-step, because if they can't then they're just "winging it" and they have no place in the professional work. Documentation is extremely important. You don't even have to understand their technical background - if it's written down somewhere as a plan, then 1) you have a better idea of what's going on, 2) you can share that knowledge around, 3) you can better track/measure its progress, 4) you can easily look back and learn from the past, both what went well and what didn't. If you can't explaing what you're doing, you don't know what you're doing. You cannot manage what you cannot control. You cannot control what you cannot measure. You cannot measure what you cannot define. Establish a plan and have people agree to it as a team. Everyone in the team must know what everyone else is doing - otherwise there's no point in being a team (imagine a soccer game - everyone works together towards the same goal, even in different roles). Do not ever let anyone do anything without making sure they know why they're doing it - establish clear outcomes and objectives and always stick to it. If you say you're in the shits now, best thing you can do is document all evidence and facts that have led to whatever decisions you've made. Take minutes at meetings and have people accept them. If you can prove that given the circumstances (again backed up by evidence) you believe you've made the best possible decisions objectively, then that will cover your arse.
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Sep 12, 2016 11:12
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tell your bosses to give you actual advice no really, just saying HEY HOSS PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT YOU is literally worthless as feed back, what are people complaining about specifically? Is it actually valid criticism? If its some dude bitching that your making him actually work you can write it off. How much critisim has been told directly to you? Cheer up, this poo poo is a skill like everthing else, you aint gonna be super good off the bat.
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Sep 12, 2016 13:58
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The Bananana posted:But when it comes time to fix the issues I am seeing, suddenly it's "we know how to do our jobs", or "nah, I don't feel like doing that", and that's not counting what happened today. Geezer. Are you telling them both what to do and how to do it? Sounds like this might be the case, since earlier you mentioned someone said you were micromanaging. adorai posted:Your problem is less one of leadership, but of management. They are often correlated, but not always. In my opinion, leadership has to come before management. You can't effectively manage people who aren't willing to follow you. OP: Have you actually sat down individually with each of the people on your team? You should have started with that as the very first thing you did. You should have set your expectations and asked for their concerns as well as desires for change on the team. Presented it as an opportunity to contribute to your expectations for the team, but make it clear that your expectations as of now are what they are. And most importantly those expectations should have been total status quo - you don't come in and immediately make changes because you simply don't know enough yet about what is working and why and what isn't working and why. That's why you sit down once a week with everyone on your team as well as your boss and talk. 30 minutes is plenty, and should get you more useful information than "people are complaining." Also, as far as leadership goes, I've always though that some of the most important characteristics are: - being adaptable. Recognize patters and change your approach when necessary - seeking progress over perfection. Don't always "go for the gold" out of the gate. Small incremental improvements work better and show faster regular results. It also allows you to continuously test your end goal to make sure that both the goal and your methodology are still correct (hint: they won't be and you'll have to adjust along the way) - leaving a team as your legacy. The best measure of your success are the people your manage. At the moment it sounds like you need to concentrate on the first one.
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Sep 12, 2016 17:16
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Motronic posted:In my opinion, leadership has to come before management. You can't effectively manage people who aren't willing to follow you.
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Sep 13, 2016 04:24
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The problem in every field I've ever worked in is that instead of the people who lead getting promoted, it's the people who are best at what they do. So you find the greatest teacher, promote them to principal, stick a crappy teacher in their class, now you have a great teacher being a horrible leader and a crappy teacher teaching. Everybody loses!
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Sep 13, 2016 05:02
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adorai posted:Not all leaders are managers, Agreed. adorai posted:and not all managers are leaders. Yeah, the bad ones aren't.
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Sep 13, 2016 15:56
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You guys (n gals) want a long post? This is ostensibly a thread for everyone, so I don't want to commandeer it any more than I already have for myself, but if y'all are interested in reading it, and giving more feedback, I've got a long post.
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Sep 14, 2016 13:15
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Sep 14, 2016 14:32
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Sep 14, 2016 14:32
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post the story, bananana
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Sep 15, 2016 03:39
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A wall of text later has afforded me a level of introspection I sorely needed.* In the end, it seems that while I was qualified for the role I stepped into, in a technical capacity, I was not qualified from an experience-based perspective. This might not have been a problem if my superiors, especially my direct manager who hired me and is most responsible for me, had taken a more hands-on approach in shaping and guiding me in this new position, considering they were made well-aware this was my first sort of posting with any sort of staff under me. However, this was not the case, and a very laissez-faire style of handling of me did not translate into a laissez-faire style of mine towards my people. Instead, I saw a crew that was working well, but had a few hiccups, and said "How can I make them perfect, RIGHT NOW?". I believe now that, had I had any sort of experience, I would have realized that the benefits of implementing sudden changes and altering years worth of routine did not outweigh the risks of alienating and upsetting a team who did not know me, trust me, or like me enough yet. This was further exacerbated by the fact that I myself did not know, like, or trust the team yet either, which resulted in unconscious verbal and physical cues that telegraphed this and made things worse, creating a negative feedback loop. In short, lol. The solution, of course, is to step back, accept all the blame for my errors while apologizing profusely to my team, and adopt a new approach that involves, much to my chagrin, accepting and allowing all the tiny and... not so tiny errors, and asking myself, repeatedly before addressing/stressing over any issue: "is this going to burn the place down?" If the answer is no, if, at the end of the day, we live to fight another day, in relative peace and good condition, accept these conditions and errors as a fact of doing business, while keeping them in mind, and establishing a goalplan for correction of these issues, slowly, one at a time, much further down the road. *If you are masochistic and/or curious enough to actually read the long, e/n-y, jargon filled, angst-wrought wall of text, shoot me a pm, and I'd be happy to share, but otherwise, this is a succinct summary of the problem, and I believe, the solution.
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Sep 15, 2016 14:42
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