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I was really surprised that they put Balor out with the draft. I would have thought that they would have done something separate to debut him and make him special. One would think that is why Bayley, Nakamura, etc. are not called up yet because they want them all to make a splash. I am really surprised by the Smackdown roster. It is EXTREMELY light and with Cena and presumably Orton moving to a more part time schedule there isn't much there at both the top and middle of the card. I am really worried what that show is going to look like come the winter since there isn't much meat on the bone with those perspective feuds. As was feared Raw still looks like the "A" show where Smackdown is still mostly forgettable even with the split PPVs. I can't wait to hear what the thought process was behind this in the coming days.
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Jul 20, 2016 07:12
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RealFoxy posted:It's the Samoa Joe issue x10 because NXT doesn't have enough big name female stars to just trot out for believable feuds. They're grooming Ember Moon to take the title off her, but she's still got to grow. The rest of the girls are alright but don't really have name recognition. It doesn't help that anyone that they were grooming before to take on Asuka got called up to the main roster. The brand split really hosed up the woman's division all around. They really should have put all the woman on one show and the tag teams on another. Then they wouldn't have had to call up every woman to the main roster and have dissapointing feuds in both divisions on both shows. We could go on about how they shouldn't be keeping people like Bayley, Asuka, Nakamura, Joe, Itami, etc. down in Florida wrestling in front of 400 people when they should be on the main roster, many from day one. Personally I'd love to see NXT go back to a purely developmental promotion. Now it being RoH lite doesn't do a ton for me anymore.
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Oct 14, 2016 06:59
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Well I think you can attribute the lackluster Cody stuff due to him not really spending any time anywhere. He is having one or two off matches everywhere. No booker in their right mind is going to throw a guy that might only do 2 or 3 matches for you into a real storyline. When/if he sticks around somewhere longer term then we will likely see some good stuff, although it is looking like he might be going to act full time in the near future.
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Dec 6, 2016 08:34
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Surprised they have Neville going over Aries. You would think they would use Mania as a way to create a new star for that brand.
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Mar 26, 2017 20:50
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The biggest problem with the modern WWE booking is they flatten everyone out with a few glaring exceptions that it ruins everyone. A perfect example of this is Nakamura, a guy who last year was white hot and arguably the biggest star in the business. Now a year later he is just another guy on a developmental brand having a match that most fans are not that interested in. Now this I would imagine is by design, one has to remember the WWE loves to try to control who they feel is the biggest names and most popular on their product. Sadly they have not realize that in 2017 the business has changed drastically and the way they were able to manipulate their audience in the past just doesn't work anymore. They have no casual audience to speak of and the die hards are too smart and connected to what happens backstage for the old stuff to work. I think on a certain level Hunter realizes this and has tried to usher in certain things that VKM would never do (for example Kevin Steen/Owens champion) but with with Vince still calling the shots and a lot of guys who are old guard that hasn't quite realized the business has changed it is a slow and hard evolution.
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Mar 29, 2017 06:11
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oatgan posted:dave isn't really an authority on joshi anymore or women's wrestling outside wwe in general That would be Jim from Virginia!
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Apr 25, 2017 19:14
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I think another problem with Roman is he has not evolved at all. Look at the other two members of the Shield, they have changed so much from what they were in the group and still are changing now. Where Roman still has the same theme, gear and limited move set. It makes everything he does bland and predictable and his matches extremely basic. Now granted you can have a great match with just a few moves as the Brock/Goldberg Mania match proved but that was also less than 5 minutes and a rarity.
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May 2, 2017 13:54
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Feels Villeneuve posted:for the ratings drops talk btw, dave metnioned that investors seem very confident in a significant boost in the TV deal fees because live sports programming is becoming more and more valuable, even despite WWE's downward trend, though he did mention that ESPN's cutbacks are likely to hurt both them and UFC, since it takes a big potential bidder out of the game. Mentioned that he expected a smaller boost in the rights fees than investors were expecting, but nothing about it going down. I think that UFC is not going to get near the deal they were expecting a year ago which is going to send ramifications throughout the rest of the sports deals going forward. The WWE is not going to get this good of a deal ever again, ratings are in a huge decline for a multitude of reasons; increased competition from other media, the rise of indie and overseas wrestling, oversaturation of the product, the 3rd hour of Raw, lack of real superstars, etc. With NBC/Universal being the only real suitor I can really see them not making as near of a big offer and likely for shorter term. If they were going to seriously right the ship it would be right now as it would take at least 2 years to really get the product hot again but as we have seen there is no chance of that happening.
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May 3, 2017 00:36
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Spermgod posted:idk if it's that easy to call how cable TV reacts to the continuing decline of the industry. for all we know that makes a strong ratings winner like WWE even more valuable. Like I said the UFC will be the first real sign of where things are going. They were expecting huge numbers for their next contract which I don't foresee being there now. ESPN and FS1 have done major cuts to staff, talent and production. I don't see a major bidding war between either of them and there isn't too many other players out there interested. CBS is involved with Belator and I don't see NBC wanting to throw more money at a product that isn't going to make them money or gain more viewers for other content. WWE is in a bad situation their ratings are spiraling down along with not being able to make much money via advertising rates. Which this would be all well and good but I think a bigger issue with NBC is the fact that it is a awful platform to launch any new series off of. USA can't use Raw or Smackdown as a tentpole to launch other series since they have zero halo effect. For the most part people who watch WWE tune out immediately after the show is over. Now the shows being 2 and 3 hours might have a part to do with that, a large part in fact, but most other Networks can use their marquee sports programing to launch other shows and drive viewers through the channel. I think stuff like baseball, football and basketball are going to still get large contracts for television but my gut tells me that the thinking of just because it is sports doesn't mean it is worth money anymore.
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May 3, 2017 16:28
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Super No Vacancy posted:yeah iirc the current USA deal was negotiated when wwe's leverage was probably at its greatest point - it was the height of the LIVE PROGRAMMING WILL SAVE THE TV INDUSTRY fervor and USA was at their ratings nadir. and even then the fed settled for a deal that was way less than they were expecting. there's only gonna be fewer suitors next time around and rights fees will probably be down across the board because as espn is finding out, if you overpay for programming and the audience continues to diffuse then you suddenly can't keep the lights on. so trying to make their own way with the wwe network may have been a wise move for stability but it's not gonna grow the paying fan base Well if you have a hot product you can make some mistakes and get away with it. If your product is bad you need to be doing everything right for quite awhile before you get going. If you take the most obvious example, the "Attitude Era" it took almost 2 years from the start for it to really become popular and gain that mainstream audience. 99-01 really was the sweet spot and the mistakes being made then caused it to end. 2018 is coming very quickly and I don't think it is going to go well for the WWE. I know if I was talent I would seriously reconsider signing with them right now.
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May 3, 2017 17:26
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Super No Vacancy posted:I don't think having fewer hit shows means you have more money. networks are going to have less to spend on even their best performing shows as viewership declines, and again the lack of bidders means they wouldn't have to spend as much to get them anyway Exactly this. Not only does the lack of hit programing not mean more money it actually means less money since most networks make their money via advertising during their programing. When you have a hit program with a coveted demographic then you can charge premium ad rates and make quite a bit of money. A perfect example of this currently is the Walking Dead, which that show allows AMC to subsidize other programing and take chances on new programing. USA has Mr. Robot which is a critical hit but not as big of a ratings hit as they would like and the next closest thing is that Cristly thing that I always see commercials for but have 0 interested in ever watching but also isn't a huge hit either. Wrestling has laughable ad rates, numbers I have seen in the past are so low I am pretty sure a group of goons could afford to buy a spot on Raw. The reasons being is that advertisers' research shows that the demographics that watch wrestling are basically old, poor and stupid. Couple that with the stigma attached to the product from the Attitude Era stuff and the violence aspect means most top advertisers are going to stay away even with the costs so low. Likely Raw numbers are going to drop to all time lows this Fall once football returns. Right now we are sub 3 million for the first time in 20 years and this should be a hot time for the WWE in the post Mania boost before the lull pre Summerslam happens. Once football comes I will not be surprised if we see sub 2 million viewers. It is much like watching a car crash in slow motion right now, you can see what is going to happen and you know it isn't going to end well. VJeff posted:I mean the 3rd hour of Raw is something USA wants, not WWE, so if the third hour was actually a problem financially, WWE would cut it out in a second. It is but that was when WWE was still a ratings winner along with USA having no programing. USA still doesn't have much but once the WWE hit sub 2 million they are going to have a hard time wanting to reinvest in it when they could use the same money to invest in new programing that will do nearly as well for much less. And let's say Bryan does magically cleared to wrestle again by them it is again a short sighted solution for a larger institutional problem. For example look at the pop Goldberg got when he first returned compared to what happened towards the end. They used Goldberg as good as they could but by the end he was starting to become stale and without a real, interesting storyline going forward people stopped caring. The same will happen with Bryan just like everyone else they bring back. Djarum fucked around with this message at 20:44 on May 3, 2017 |
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May 3, 2017 20:37
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Feels Villeneuve posted:what new programming? non-live TV is falling off far more than live television, especially among the markets USA is looking for. USA could try to go after other sports, but TBS kind of ate their lunch on that one. If you are running production of a program you can still make pretty good money in today's climate. For example the money as a network you spend you can recoup from first and repeat airings as well as licensing out to various streaming platforms. For example with Mr. Robot, it is owned, produced and distributed by NBC/Universal so every cent that is earned by the program comes right back into their pockets. Compare that to a famous example; The West Wing which was owned, produced and distributed by Warner Bros. So NBC paid a fee to the distributor and only got the advertising revenue from the first and if applicable rerun airings. All home media sales, streaming and other revenue all went to Warner Bros. So the second that the distribution costs outweighs the advertising revenue it got the axe. This has happened a lot and with the changing landscape in television is why even small channels have invested in their own content as the money you can generate even with a small hit far outweighs the amount that you can make with a massive licensed one. As for live event revenue the reason for that is very simple, they are making more money off of the hardcores. The costs for house shows are now what you would pay for a TV taping ten years ago and TV tapings cost what PPV shows did in the same timeframe. For example I was going to get tickets to the PPV here in Chicago soon but for the amount they were charging I could go to see the Blackhawks in the lower bowl/100 level. The Blackhawks have some of the most expensive tickets in the NHL and I don't go to many games for that reason. Also I got tickets for both the post Christmas Raw and Smackdown tapings at the same venue and those together were less than what they were charging for this PPV, and that is not counting the NXT show the night before. Now how long can they continue to raise prices and how much money can they squeeze out the hardcores? I am not sure but like many of the plays the company is making this is also one that will not end well. You can get away with stuff like this if you have a hot product but with how things are eventually it will all catch up. So let's say that at best the WWE gets the same amount of money via their next television deal. I think that a lot of the moves that are being made right now will end up being time bombs that will catch them. Let's look at this UK expansion, so they are locking up talent with low cost deals and looking to invest a lot of money in this UK division. Now this is because ITV is going to do a wrestling show on free TV, which is never going to be a real competitor to the WWE and would be a good feeder to the company much like RoH is here. Now in a year or two all this money being thrown at a imagined problem will be looked as a major waste and will have the effect of crippling what was a thriving UK scene for probably a decade. Another example is NXT as a touring brand. The amount of money the company is paying to have top talent from elsewhere perform in National Guard Armories in front of 200 people instead of their flagship programs is just stupid. The Performance Center in general seems to be ineffective at generating home grown talent as well, I imagine because most of their shows are full of the best talent in the world and doesn't need developmental training. Those NXT shows should be so people get ring time and get better. It is insane that people in the New Japan Dojo for 3 weeks are better than people who are at the Performance Center for 3 years. I could go on and on but the WWE is a house of cards that could collapse at any time. My prediction is that ultimately the company will be bought by a major media company and things will radically change.
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May 4, 2017 00:54
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rovert posted:Paddy Power is listing Samoa Joe as the favourite for Sunday: http://www.paddypower.com/bet/sports-novelties/wwe?ev_oc_grp_ids=3702672 God I hope not. They need to build Joe up and that fight. That is a big money match for the future. Honestly the best option would be Seth since he has the least to lose and they won't have to worry about building him up for it. If Strowman is penciled in for Summerslam then hold off on Balor until Survivor Series, use the summer to build up for the match. Then you do Joe at the Rumble, spending the next 7-8 months into making Joe into a monster he should be. Obviously this is the WWE so none of this will happen and they will squander everyone involved.
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Jun 2, 2017 13:12
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Aphrodite posted:Rusev would never work as a face in the WWE today because the only way they know how to do his character is the idiot foreigner. I think if they were going to drop the Russian gimmick this would be the time. He has been gone long enough and with Total Divas and Lana transitioning hercharacter it would be the best time. I think Rusev could be a fantastic face since he is incredibly funny and entertaining when he gets the chance to show it off. Granted VKM running the show means he will be doing that gimmick until he is dead. I must post this incase anyone forgot the single best Rusev moment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp8-NuQPiOo My girlfriend and I will randomly shout "Happy Father's Day" at each other to this day.
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Jul 1, 2017 05:03
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I saw Austin Aries yesterday randomly and he shaved his head and goatee... He looks bizarre now.
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Aug 1, 2017 16:33
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Forceholy posted:I thought Ryback was doing fitness things when he left WWE. How is he doing in the indies? Not getting booked. He is asking for crazy money and a stupid list of demands. I am friendly with several people who book different shows in the Chicagoland area and get pretty big name stars regularly. They inquired about Ryback and the ask was so insane they thought it was a joke. To put it in perspective you can book Cody Rhodes, the RoH World Champion mind you, for half of what Ryback is asking for and that is just cash. The rider is even more crazy. You can book both the Young Bucks and still have money left over for other top indie draws!
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Aug 2, 2017 17:29
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flashy_mcflash posted:What's in the rider? I don't know everything but a super expensive hotel and first class travel are in there as well as requiring a ton of his health food at the event. Let's say Cena leaves the WWE and starts working the indies, even he isn't going to be able to command what Ryback is asking for and Cena is the most successful draw in current times. Ryback is a guy who was barely on the card for most of his career. I know a lot of people online like to give Cody Rhodes a lot of poo poo but I will say the guy has been a complete class act since he started working indies. His rates are beyond reasonable, he does a lot for the other guys on the cards and carries himself like a professional. Everyone I have talked to that has done business with him has nothing but great things to say which in this industry isn't very common.
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Aug 3, 2017 00:23
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CubsWoo posted:I guarantee the high ask is due to Ryback's psychology and how he's into The Secret, i.e.: "If I don't ask for everything I deserve, I'll have to accept less. And if I accept less, I admit to myself that I am not worth more." Something like that. I have a feeling it is a mixture of the Secret crap and him actually thinking he is that much of a draw and can command that kind of money. I know he was talking to NJPW after he was released and the price he was asking for was again stupid. I think they just stopped talking to him after that. On the plus side this means we will likely never see him again. I can't say I'll miss him.
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Aug 3, 2017 01:55
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oatgan posted:ryback still insists he's going to try for new japan when his shoulder is fully healed by the way I have no idea why they would even want him. Elgin and Ishii do everything he does and more for a hell of a lot less money. As a plus they are already over with their audience. Rhonne posted:Is anyone really asking for Ryback anymore though? I mean, I could see people wanting to being him in right after he left the WWE, but it's been about a year now, is there even any interest still there? I don't think anyone was clamoring for him before he left. It is like Bull Dempsey/James, for about five minutes right after he was released he had a bunch of indie bookings and shoot interviews. Now, I have no idea if he is even still working which he is by all accounts a very nice guy and wasn't that bad of a worker. Ryback at least was for five minutes in the main event scene of WWE and keeps pulling stunts to keep himself in the public eye but so does Virgil.
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Aug 3, 2017 04:44
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Jenny Angel posted:Who's going to be joining the faction? ReDRagon I assume, but others? Lio Rush likely.
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Aug 16, 2017 04:47
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TwoDogs1Cup posted:Think it was Hall It was Scott Hall. He had one of the greatest minds the business had ever seen, he just hosed it up by getting hosed up.
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Sep 13, 2017 15:50
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Faustian Bargain posted:I hope Dean gains back 30 lbs of muscle and stops being zany. I went back and watched some old Shield stuff a couple of weeks ago. I miss Seth doing big insane spots, Dean being a better wrestler than he is now and Roman coming out for the hot tag and doing nothing else. It is really impressive how badly they screwed up each of them.
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Sep 26, 2017 18:57
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Gaz-L posted:I think it depends on how prominent a jobber someone is. Juice and Trent were guys you'd be forgiven for not even knowing were on the WWE/NXT roster. And they basically totally reinvented themselves. Wheras Ryder and Ziggler have a history of being semi-featured TV characters and will probably do cheap knock--offs of their WWE gimmicks on the indies. Ziggler I think wants to move into non-wrestling entertainment. He has been working with the Groundlings for several years and has been doing both standup and improv. I heard a couple of times that he was offered roles in things only to have the WWE tell him no (and to have John Cena do similar things around the same time). I have little doubt that at the end of this current contract he is out the door. Ryder I think could do well outside of the WWE shackles. He has proven that he can get himself over without their help and is a sound enough wrestler. The Jersey Shore gimmick is probably a little dated but I am pretty sure he can figure something out if he were given the chance. There are probably under a dozen guys in WWE that could leave and do well on the outside. That is why a lot of them just keep their heads down and collect the steady paycheck. Now the next couple of years the business is going to be very interesting. If NJPW major push in the US works out even a little coupled with WWE getting a lower TV deal you could see a lot of top talent look to other pastures.
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Oct 14, 2017 15:38
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I canceled my Network subscription after Survivor Series and I probably won't be back until the Rumble. WWE has just gotten so stale and boring even for their standards. It just gets so hard to watch people you like have the same boring match every week and hear people talk like they have had a stroke. I have NJPW World which gives me New Japan, CMLL and the big RoH shows. I'll probably sign up for the RoH service next year too. That will be more than enough good wrestling for me.
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Nov 30, 2017 06:44
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The Cameo posted:Because they showed Raven - who's Jewish - their newly inked tats and Raven's immediate response was "what the gently caress - oh wait, I know what I can do about these scumfucks. Go show Paul (whose mom is a Holocaust survivor)!" Wow. Those Harris Brothers are some real winners. I have heard some really disturbing stories about them over the years. I am kind of surprised that people are actually willing to do business with them.
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Dec 13, 2017 07:35
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Devitt is some sort of freak of nature and hasn't touched a carb in a decade. There is tons of stories out of Japan about his diet and workout regimen. 12 pack abs Hoot, Giant Cock Hoot, Slays Pussy like it's his job Hoot nicknames don't come out of nowhere.
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Feb 14, 2018 00:40
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mkay0 posted:Don’t have to end the brand split to merge the titles I think merging the women and tag titles would do wonders for those divisions and moving each to a separate show. I'd say Women on Raw and Tag on Smackdown. Keep a under title on each show and make it mean something, US on Smackdown and IC on Raw and unify the top title again, have it something for the top guys to chance after. The worse thing WWE has done in the last 5 years or so is make every single title meaningless. If you are going to make these giant cross band shows every month then you are going to have to make your titles mean something so the feuds that aren't for a championship have any reason for happening.
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Feb 20, 2018 06:37
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Do it ironically posted:Was the undertaker extremely bad with his money, I can’t see any other reason he’d want to literally limp into a ring and embarrass himself, again Evidently the hip surgery he had was a huge success and he feels 15 years younger. Supposedly he has been telling everyone he regrets not getting it done many years ago. Take that as you will.
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Apr 5, 2018 16:20
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rovert posted:Sanity is debuting next week drat. The crowd would flip out if they showed up.
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Apr 11, 2018 01:42
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OctoberCountry posted:Hayes agenting the main event explains so much, too Yup, as soon as I saw that I knew it was going to be a disaster. Granted I didn't know how bad it was going to be.
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May 8, 2018 02:20
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RealFoxy posted:The issue, as always with WWE, is giving no breathing room to let consequences even have a chance of happening. This is totally perhaps the biggest issue with WWE storytelling anymore. They have such a bloated roster that they should be doing this by default but instead it is rushing through matches like it is a race and making everything not matter.
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May 14, 2018 16:19
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I stopped watching WWE entirely over the last couple of months. I went from watching Raw, Smackdown and NXT to watching a parts of everything to just stop being interested in the product entirely. Now on the other hand I have been watching more NJPW, ROH and CMLL. Before I was watching the big NJPW and ROH shows to just watching almost all of it. Granted that is easier since there is less of it but man is the quality so much better. Also if you aren’t watching the CMLL Friday night Arena Mexico show you are missing out. Even if the matches aren’t always great (and they are often not) the atmosphere is amazing. Dancing girls in crazy costumes, midgets and the hottest crowds I have seen outside of like 70s and maybe some of those 80s shows in the South.
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Jul 15, 2018 04:55
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STONE COLD 64 posted:investing in wwe stock ahead of the fox deal is probably a good move tbh And dumping it before they start on Fox is a better one.
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Jul 15, 2018 12:32
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rovert posted:lol at no one on this forum watching ROH TV. Yup RoH and NJPW. He was at the Long Beach Show.
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Sep 9, 2018 15:12
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DoctorGonzo posted:why the gently caress they are pushing baron corbin of all people He has the Jason Jordan spot. Also he is tall, damnit!
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Nov 6, 2018 14:00
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I wonder how they got Mattel to sign off on this since they were the ones rumored to put the kilbosh on it in the first place.
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Jan 28, 2019 07:54
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Well you have to remember that whomever they ask has to accept it as well. Honky famously has told them to gently caress off for years. Something tells me they are desperate this year and their original plans have fell through.
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Mar 3, 2019 02:47
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VJeff posted:Why doesn't Vince like Vader? It is because Vader isn't a Vince creation. He was even over ruled when he wanted to change his name and gimmick to "The Mastodon" when he first came to the WWF. He was a major star before and after his WWF run. Vince couldn't make money with someone everyone else could, so I am sure it is a bit of ego as well.
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Mar 5, 2019 18:33
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Astro7x posted:10 championship matches, 2 Battle Royals, Triple H/Batista, Angle/TBA, Miz/Shane, Styles/Orton, Reigns/???.... yeah, it's going to be 17 matches. Well they need to fill 9 hours somehow. I am highly considering not bothering watching Mania this year, partly because WWE hasn't given me one of those $1 for 3 months of the Network deals but mostly because I don't think I can sit through all of the boring matches this year. It's funny because my partner and I got offered tickets to the show and we both instantly were like "Nope, not sitting in a stadium in Jersey for 10+ hours in the beginning of April for that." I am kinda bummed I am not going to the MSG show but everything else I had interest in seeing is way out in Jersey and sold out instantly.
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Mar 18, 2019 07:25
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Dacap posted:They could very easily split Mania into 2 9-Match Cards and run it Saturday/Sunday with Takeover on Friday Yeah I think that is what they are going to ultimately going to have to do, or just have off seasons for people so you have SummerSlam and maybe Survivor Series top tier shows where you rotate stars in and out.
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Mar 18, 2019 17:27
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