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I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

That Avengers cartoon seems about as animated as that Captain America show from the 60s that you could get in the dollar vhs bin at the grocery store in 2002.

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I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Seems like both the edgiest thing and the thing most likely to lead to respectful treatment of the victim by the story would be to have the Joker rape Commissioner Gordon. Or any male character, I guess.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Franchescanado posted:

Within reason. It must work within contextual evidence of the text.

For instance, saying The Killing Joke is a commentary on police brutality and the Black Lives Matter movement because of three panels on the fourth page of the story does not hold weight. Death to the Author, but the Reader is Not God. We all bring our live experiences to each reading, but we must be able to argue our point with real evidence beyond "that's how I interpret it".

It is possible for a reading to discover implications for cultural formations and events unknown at the time of first publication. It doesn't mean that anyone was thinking about it while writing, but that the past sometimes hits on ideas relevant to the present.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Batman's parents seem kind of poo poo themselves with respect to philanthropic use of their money. Batman at least represents a real investment and personal stake in the lives of the common people, dumb and counterproductive as it turns out to be.

What did his mom and dad ever do with their millions, sponsor some episodes of Fresh Air with Terry Gross? If you're going to bag on Batman for being a repressive extension of state power and a tool for the status quo, it seems like rich people who just drop some cash into charities and otherwise enjoy the pleasures of owning the means of production seem much worse as far as the neoliberal machine and the damage it causes.

Thomas Wayne would have been an early backer of the Clinton campaign, is what I'm saying.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Most of the dialogue sounds stupid as hell when read out loud. You can tell how much trouble they had fitting all those words to the actions on the images once they had to be matched together temporally. It was definitely written for the page and to be read by a viewer.

And everyone sounds manic as gently caress spilling out all that dialogue, especially Hamill.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Legit shocked the Julie Newmar is alive.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

It should look like Jonny Quest or one of those Synchro Vox shows.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

ZDar Fan posted:

Yeah, I think it was the second season of Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends that did an origin episode for each of the titular characters. Iceman's episode had them visit the X-Men in the non-flashback portion, where Wolverine inexplicably had an Australian accent.

Therefore also an episode that explains how they got all that crazy hidden scientific equipment installed in Aunt May's house. Stan Lee narrates heavily.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

I miss Dwayne McDuffie.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Lurdiak posted:

I feel like calling the movie bad is a huge understatement. You can't even make the case that it has good voice acting because the voice direction is poo poo.

The dialogue just sounds awful and tedious and way overdone when spoken anyway, even by big ol' nerd Hamill who was probably really excited to do it. Reading and listening are two very different contexts.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Roth posted:

The main things I remember about 90s Spider-Man are:

1. The Secret Wars arc
2. Meeting Stan Lee
3. People falling into portals instead of dying
4. SHOOOOOOOOOOOCKER!!!! I WILL CHASE YOU TO THE ENDS OF THE EAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
5. The episode names were stuff like "Sins of the Father: Book 4: Part VIII: The Sequel
6. "I ran out of web!" *Cut to commercial*

Dr. Octopus' arms always smashing into that same wall of crates, year after year.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Skwirl posted:

I don't think Iron Man or the FF ever showed up, but they had they're own cartoons at the time I think.

They're both in the Secret Wars episodes but Storm reps for all the x-men, which seems lame. I guess they were busy with something else.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Doctor Spaceman posted:

Studios can get spooked about making more though.

Judging purely on lists on the internet there do seem to be a lot more pirate movies in 80s / early 90s than after Cutthroat Island.

How many more years until another movie with "mars" in the title?

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Is the next one "Neogenic Nightmare: Chapter V: The Mutant Agenda, Part 2"?

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

I love how insane and fast the opening theme is. It's even more hectic than the x-men cartoon opening.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

EDIT: too late

Not even when it's rotoscoped from the Buffy opening credits

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Roth posted:


I also recall they were forced to use the Tim Burton Penguin which probably explains why they didn't use him a whole lot in the original series as well.

And yet they were allowed to make a white Harvey Dent. Unless Warner's wasn't saving Billy Dee for a sequel by that point.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

SlothfulCobra posted:

The obsession with having to start with the origin seems like a more recent thing. For some reason at the same time that comic superheroes became more prominent in pop culture, everybody became really self conscious about being some weird nerd thing that normal people might not be aware of.

I don't think they started with the origin even when Batman started out in the comics.

Batman the Animated Series came out right after Batman Returns and at the start seemed to carry elements in common with the Burton movie, like some score elements and the Penguin being a deformed weirdo. It was ambiguously an adaptation, so maybe the network didn't think it was necessary.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

NikkolasKing posted:

Yep. I was talking with some people accusing Batman of being a Libertarian ideal. The fundamental flaw with that argument is the idea that Batman is anyone's ideal anything.I have a lot of comics to read I know but at least in the animated series, I felt like there was a very obvious relation between Batman and his villains. As in, he's hardly any different from them. The only thing keeping him from becoming as bad as they are is his no kill rule.

I was told this idea that Batman is a deranged madman on the edge is a product of Miller and before him Batman was a true ideal but I have no proof eitehr way on that.

Batman is a child's power fantasy and the Miller version is Miller's childish power fantasy.


EDIT: 30s-70s Batman, I mean.

I AM GRANDO fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Apr 29, 2017

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

SlothfulCobra posted:

There's also Firestar, from Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends back in the 80s. Originally they planned to use the Human Torch, but couldn't for reasons, so they made a new character and eventually brought her into the comic continuity. They gave her a much darker backstory, because that was what comics were like at the time. I don't think any writers really liked to use her though, so she alternates between being a joke and being part of the background.

Herbie from the Fantastic Four cartoon also got picked up by the comics.

She was in the New Warriors for all of the 90s. And was maybe in the xmen or new mutants for a while too.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

I like Spidey's loafers.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

HIJK posted:

I read Spider-Gwen. It was shallow and it sucked. They tried to pack complex storylines into single issues without taking advantage of the premise. For example they had a black female Captain America, which is a cool premise! And then they packed her entire backstory and character development in 3 pages, didn't develop her at all, didn't give her any of her own stories, didn't use her in any kind of serious storytelling attempt but still expected the audience to treat her as a three dimensional character even though the creators themselves refused to do that. I can't even tell you her name without a wiki.

It's insulting to treat a character like that. It's insulting to introduce gimmicks disguised as characters or plots, and refuse to use them in storytelling in any meaningful capacity. Being self contained didn't save Spider-Gwen from having worthless trash storytelling and shallow characterization.

If Spider-Gwen had been a manga we would have at least gotten multiple issues exploring black female Captain America's story, how she came to be involved with the Super Soldier program, how she survived from the past to the present, who her family was, who she loved and lost and why they mattered to her. That doesn't mean that it would be good because there's plenty of trash manga too but at least in manga the creators say "hmmm if I want to the audience to care about this character I need to invest time and space into showing them why she's important."

Spider-Gwen just shoved all of that into 3-4 pages. And it sucked. Being self contained didn't help it. Modern superhero comics are absolute loving poo poo at telling good stories if you aren't Tom King. And people wonder why the industry is dying.

Isn’t that normal for superhero comics? How many pages are devoted to the first Captain America’s origin, given that the comic is about him?

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Why is Alfred there?

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Why is there a non-Japanese Alfred in the Japanese Batman movie?

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Lightning Lord posted:

What about Jean Gray? She destroyed entire star systems as the Phoenix.

Didn’t they retroactively make it not her so that she was in a coma in a space pod in the Hudson River the whole time?

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

What will comics do about Magneto as World War II passes out of living memory? Has he appeared progressively younger in holocaust flashbacks as time passes (ie in the 80s he was a teenager but in the 00s he’s like five or six)?

Comics have a boner for World War II generally because of when they became big and when a lot of their characters were created, but eventually kids are going to wonder why everyone in comics cares so much about something that happened 100 years ago.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

JT Smiley posted:

That was something I always thought was weird as a kid. A tv show with two almost completely different versions running at the same time. Like the syndicated TMNT episodes were so different from the episodes that were on CBS. Same with Darkwing Duck and Aladdin.

Also Ghostbusters. It usually has to do with time passing between when the syndicated episodes are finished and when they begin the weekly episodes. I have no idea about Sonic, though. That was just weird.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

ToastyPotato posted:

Yep. Type casting is a very real thing. Actors don't cast themselves nor direct themselves (usually). So when you see someone give the same or similar performance over and over, understand that the people who pay them told them to do that, more than likely.

On the other hand, Mark Hamill is basically a dial with “Luke Skywalker” at one end and “The Joker” on the other. Then there’s a “manic/sullen” toggle switch.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

hiddenriverninja posted:

where does Firelord Ozai fit on this scale

Sullen and dialed 3/4 of the way to Joker. This isn’t meant to insult Mark Hamill. Every role can be perfected by finding the right point on that dial.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Didn’t they already do an animated movie of that one?

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

I just watched the Superman Animated Series pilot from 20 years ago. When Jor-El explains his plan to save Krypton, he says that he’ll fly to Earth and bring everyone out of the phantom zone. Does that mean his plan was to invade and take over Earth?

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Honest Thief posted:

The deal with that was that she was a putty clone of supergirl that was in love with Lex? Something along those lines

And Lex was a redheaded twink with a ponytail pretending to be his own long-lost son from Australia. Also a clone.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Wheat Loaf posted:

Most people know how great the second Iron Man animated opening theme was, but who remembers how the first was as bad as the second was good? (Also, is there anything more 90s than the fact that his team on that show was loving Force Works?)

I will accept the mullet as a 90s thing, but why is he dressed like he’s on Miami Vice?

That first theme song sounds like it was done by a Yes cover band.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

BetterToRuleInHell posted:

Didn't he also eventually acknowledge that the lie detector was a bullshit device? I feel like there is a story associated with him about someone hooking up a houseplant to a lie detector and getting responses that changed his position.

I think that was the scientology soul-o-meter where they hold soup cans that measure skin conductivity. Lie detectors are unreliable but are more complex than that and do generally measure how nervous you actually are.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

ToastyPotato posted:

You don't understand [insert female character] uses their body to distract their enemies why do you want to cover them up are you some kind of prude women should be free to dress how they want

The "it's only moral that fictional characters should have their own agency" argument is my favorite insanely fallacious argument.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Have these people had a bug up their asses about Steven Universe and Clarence for years and I just never noticed, or is Thundercats just a step too far for them?

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

ryonguy posted:

There's a major problem with the animation industry being extremely heavily weighted to CalArts grads, and when yet another of them gets to make a show that just lazily copies the current "popular" style, people get frustrated. Except they're circling the wagons by claiming all criticism of it is just the CHUDs being CHUDs.

It sucks because 1) Saying "It's not for youuuuu!" is a smug copout and 2) There are literal animation producers out there saying they are watching and will blacklist people who disparage the show in a manner they don't like. So now not only does anybody who dislikes it have to tread carefully about not being considered an alt-right loon, they also have to worry about whether or not they can criticize anything at all without getting shut out if they want a place in the industry.

It's a bad showing by both sides, and the pro-reboot side is absolutely taking advantage of the nastiness of the other to avoid criticism.

Couldn’t they just not be hyperbolic and respond with reasonable judgments? There’s not really a “both sides” possible when one side is a rape threat and doxxing factory.

Even if the cartoon is bad, you might have some problems if your first response is “oh no! Because of the chuds now I can’t criticize the cartoon or else people will think that I am a chud! How unreasonable!”

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

The best thing about Thundercats was it produced that “MOTHER...FUCKER” .wav that endlessly delighted 17-year-old me.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

I miss the Sunbow look from the early-mid 80s. I guess it’s no longer profitable for cartoons to be made in huge Korean sweatshops and so we’ll never see its grungy style again?

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I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

There have been like five school shootings since January carried out by people wearing nazi regalia who posted on the internet about how they were nazis. Nothing will make this country realize there’s a problem as long as the killers are white.

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