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I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Jake Lloyd quit acting because he developed schizophrenia.

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I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Nice to see Beau keeping his giant valentine-card heart and belly shirt.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Steven Universe also has a boy who’s a failure at masculinity in the same ways that they are (fat, introverted, sensitive, into video games) but who responds by caring about others and building community instead of retreating into isolation and hollow consumerism. They probably hate seeing their weakness reflected back at them and overcome with the help of a collective of gay power moms.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Don't the incel chuds use He-Man (and only He-Man, and even he isn't an example of it) as an example of unrealistic standards of beauty for men? I would imagine that until this moment, they considered She-Ra just another betrayal of helpless men by the brutal gynocracy.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

How did they like that new Thundercats from a while ago? I guess that was before their awakening to the degeneration of the west or whatever via gamergate though.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

SlothfulCobra posted:

The 80s and early 90s were weirdly obsessed with the human form, as well as being the period where the separation of the genders was being ratcheted up. Women were all being pushed down the line of looking like Barbie supermodels, narrow waists, busty, big hair, and all that, which there have been many thinkpieces, studies, and campaigns to come back from that. There's still a lot of issues with women in TV and movies all trying to go towards the one, ideal body type.

Depictions of men went down an entirely different path, with depictions starting to get more into the muscle-y bodybuilding physiques. Bodybuilders became movie stars, and it somehow became a thing for movie superheroes to even wear ridiculous fake muscle plates in their costumes in an attempt to duplicate comics' unrealistic outfits that conform to every crevice. The He-Man action figures were particularly bad, they were just solid bricks of steroids only vaguely resembling a humanoid form. The main difference is, through all of that, there were still dumpy guys, fat guys, and old guys all over the place, sometimes even being the lead character who gets with one of those barbie girls. There's still some unrealistic standards floating around (apparently extreme dehydration is still a thing they do for some action movies), but they're not nearly as all-encompassing.

And modern cartoons are moving away from both stereotypes, which has its own ups and downs, but I like it better for the most part. If the 80s are comparable to all those greco-roman naked statues, then right now we're in the period of all those medieval knights fighting snails, which are much better.

There’s a series on netflix about famous toy franchises called The Toys That Made Us, and the one about He-Man features the executive who made He-Man explaining that they hired a child psychologist to learn what boys wanted to play with, and the result was that they wanted to identify with someone powerful who could do anything, as kids basically can’t do anything. So 80s boys identified with and were excited to see themselves as huge muscle guys. Aspiration or realistic expectations weren’t part of it because the focus was on what He-Man could do rather than what he looked like: he looked like that to signify how much agency he had.

Girl toys haven’t really followed pattern with imaginative play. She-Ra was an attempt to duplicate that formula with plagiarized Barbie dolls, and seems to have had mixed results, as I’ve never known a woman who cared about She-Ra as a kid (though I’ve known a few who liked He-Man).

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Ms. Pac-Man is the superior game, but I feel like the pretty sleazy cabinet art with a coquettish pac-female dangling her legs over the edge in plastered-on makeup and high heels can only be an attempt to appeal to men, as my general sense is that women are made uncomfortable by the male gaze being applied to ostensibly nonsexual things (in addition to, you know, them and all the women in their lives).

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Vulpes Vulpes posted:

That episode was priceless for the interviews with the guy who made He-Man so beefy. He was completely obsessed with muscle mass and was so sublimely satisfied with creating an action figure that was jacked to the point of grotesquery.

I can’t get over the former Mattel executive who has what is clearly a statue of herself as a chair in the background of all her interview segments.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

ImpAtom posted:

... as a *chair?* I can't even picture that.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006


As you can see, people putting their fetishes into cartoons has a long history, ergo She-Ra should have breasts with physics accuracy appropriate for twenty-first century rendering technology.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

I hope they do stuff like “what if Robert Downey Jr overdosed in 1998 and Iron Man was played by Sean Penn?” Or “what if Marvel kept ownership of the movie rights to X-Men?”

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

I think the sliding timescale itself never comes up. Comics just always take place in the present because it’s depressing to require Spiderman age into senility because you want to attach a date to the time he teamed up with David Letterman. Comics make no sense.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Nodosaur posted:

Symbiotes for some?

No, symbiotes for all!

Hey look, it’s the 90s.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Bobby...shut up!

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

FilthyImp posted:

I know this is a month back but gently caress this noise.

As a kid whose parents didn't have a lot of money, I got to sit and watch bugfuck crazy comic shows on Saturdays and weekdays. Shows that were adapting from whole comic runs. Not doing whatever sad poo poo Avengers: United They Stand did. And that's before getting into the idea that (with X-Men at least) the idea that prejudice should be fought and civil rights should be applied to everyone was a big part of the show.

If I wanted my "actually this is *real* storytelling" fix I could tune in to Gargoyles, Batman or Beast Wars.

...the Wild Man of Borneo. See you around.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

It’s adults-only but somehow extremely juvenile, like a teenager’s idea of what mature entertainment should be.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Halloween Jack posted:

Been Rewatching Batman Beyond. Man, he kills a lot of people.

There’s something really upsetting about that show that I can’t put into words. Usually, there’s a sense that superheroes in kids’ cartoons have some foundation of safety they can work from, like they go out and fight the villains but can count on being safe in Wayne Manor or the bat cave or what have you. In Batman Beyond, the characters always seemed so vulnerable, like their villains were all-powerful and could just have them committed or kicked out of school or destroyed in any number of ways, and they were basically helpless to do anything about it. I remember feeling uneasy the whole time watching as a kid, as the show was about a child and an old man who were vulnerable at all times and had no protection.

Maybe some of it is the amazing amount of body horror in the show, which kind of just extends to the honesty with which the show has about how when you get old, you just can’t do the things you used to do.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

I love how they’re baffled at first but just naturally both fall into mocking it at the same time. I can buy that they would bond by mercilessly ridiculing things.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

At least we know he wasn’t erased by the time travel episode.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Bringing in a peer friend for Terry to confide in kind of ruined the dynamic of the show for me. There's nothing wrong with Max as written, but she diminishes the bleakness and urgency of Terry and Bruce's situation and makes them less marginalized than they are in that first season where it's just a kid and an old man who can't do anything that isn't punching people as batman and who nobody will listen to or respect.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

He does already have the black shirt with the silver S when he gets taken over. He may have only been possessed by Starro for a few years. Maybe it was mostly spent with Starro establishing control or something.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

TheKingofSprings posted:

I seem to remember they at least joked about it and also it was the reason Batman didn't turn himself in with the rest of the founding members and instead went to pay Waller a visit.

In the first episode he says something like "I'm not much of a team player so I'm not joining, but call when you need me and I'll come." Although he also paid for the space station, so I don't know. I remember being excited at the time because it was a continuity nod to what I remembered from Batman Beyond.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

It’s kind of bullshit that superman has to worry about money and pay rent when you think about it. I’d live rent-free in that satellite and I bet a bunch of heroes would, given how many of them have bullshit jobs.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

I feel like Spiderman doesn't approach his work with the expectation that it's part of a universal program of reform for his city, nor does he believe that his city must be rescued from decline and chaos. New York is just like a pretty cool place and he has as much fun buying hot dogs from carts and going to sporting events and whatever other generic things as he does have serious hero time. Also he doesn't have the resources to pursue any other strategy like Batman does: he's not going to be able to invest in infrastructure. It's just jumping and punching or nothing.

There's also probably something in there about other heroes just kind of lucking into it through happenstance. You don't blame Superman for not trying other things because what else is he going to do? Muckrake? He's lucky to have a day job at all in this economy.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

site posted:

Well if he was just Peter he could be running a billion dollar tech lab that could advance mankind but he's too busy punching doc Ock again

Spiderman is not a gentrifier. Uncle Ben taught him better than that.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006


But Daredevil, where do laws come from? What about the law that says you can't marry Foggy?

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

site posted:

most of these are well he could do them but he wouldnt, which was my point. but this one, first he lived on a farm so i have a hard time believing he doesnt know at least the basics of plumbing, but he has like super learning like the flash because he can study super fast, he has super speed, strength, flight, heat vision for tunneling, and can see every wavelength of the electromagnetic spectrum so he can see the piping and where buried power lines and related stuff is so he can take out and replace the pipes (which was the intent of my original paragraph, the way youre response is phrased makes it seem like maybe that wasnt clear). am i missing something?

Superman is as dumb as anyone. Just because I can read super-fast doesn’t mean that reading will make me a competent engineer. You have to have experience and like doing something in order to be good at it.

By utilitarian logic, we should all become engineers or like geneticists solving world hunger, but it’s not feasible because we’d be bad at it and burn ourselves out after a few years. Superman is an average white man who is strong and who can fly, and he’s also genuinely ethical and not racist. How would he even know how to hold spaceships so they don’t break up when flying them into space.

I would guess that in dc world, there is super science that solves at least some problems. Getting into space in a spaceship seems really easy compared to our world, for example.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

I just watched Batman: Assault on Arkham, and it’s bad in a drab, boring way. Is that what comics are like now? It’s at this weird kids’ level of sophistication but with gore and curse words, and bad jokes, like a kid would think is cool but that marks it as unsuitable for kids. It’s confusing to just have established comic characters showing up because it leaves the setting and the histories of the characters unclear. Is this the same setting as those other animated dc movies that were out around that time? Does the Flash exist here? Has Batman met Amanda Waller before?

I was disappointed to hear Kevin Conroy and CCH Pounder in this because the material is so far below them—I don’t know why the people making this would want to remind anyone of a good Batman cartoon that way.

Also Batman is the antagonist and there’s only one scene from his point of view, so he shouldn’t get the title. Was this originally supposed to be some Suicide Squad marketing synergy that rethought after that one bombed?

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Blockhouse posted:

So a few things

1. I don't think an animated movie from 2014 is a good representation of "what comics are like now" which is in and of itself a pretty broad question. Yes there are comics like that but, I mean, it's definitely not a blanket statement on all of them

2. It predates David Ayers' Suicide Squad by two years. It was actually, for some reason, meant as a tie-in for the game Arkham Knight. So it's set in the Arkham game universe but also doesn't do a super great job of portraying that if you didn't know going in.

Sorry—by “now” I guess I meant a much broader span of time, like 10-20 years? I had no clue it had anything to do with the video games.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

NikkolasKing posted:

This rules but also can Garfield & Friends talk go here?

It's Halloween, it's time torevisit a classic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3FJePrGZb8

I watched a lot of things growing up but far and away the most important cartoons for little me were Pinky & the Brain and Garfield & Friends. I find they both hold up and I'm glad somebody uploaded this to YT to future generations can enjoy.

This was a classic I was always sad that it dropped away from its longtime companion, It’s the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown, and disappeared from tv, even though it’s obviously younger by a decade or more.

Lorenzo Music is probably the greatest cartoon voice to me. He’s at least in the top three.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006


Wow. I guess the opening credits they made for the X-Men cartoon in Japan were really different.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

muscles like this! posted:

The 90s Spider-Man cartoon ended with a Spider-Verse story where Peter met a bunch of alternate versions of himself. At one point Peter makes a stop in a world where Spider-Man is just a comic book character and he meets Stan Lee.

Edit: Although this being 90s Spider-Man it sounds more impressive than it actually was.

Doesn’t Stan go with him to save MaryJane? That’s always been my memory but I’ve never bothered to watch the episode since it aired. I remember that and a frequently repeated scene of Dr. Octopus smashing a bunch of boxes in a warehouse, sometimes even when he wasn’t in a warehouse and occasionally when Dr. Octopus wasn’t in the episode.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

I’ve been thinking about that Batman Beyond sendoff episode of Justice League and I think it works a lot better if Amanda Waller is senile and Terry just humors her because he’s a nice guy. Also he and his brother have black hair because Bruce had an affair with their mother.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

That part was a joke—sorry.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

And yet in the last season they do drop some hints in that direction, like Superman telling Terry that he’s more like Bruce than he’ll ever know in a way where his voice trails off portentously. I feel like there was something else in the last season like that too where Max is reading police files and says some villain ended up thinking that Terry has to be the original Batman’s son.

There’s also this: https://the-schwayest-batman-around.tumblr.com/post/116679190510/batman-beyond-fact-20

Hard agree that it’s silly and undermines the show. But it was very nice to get closure on a show I thought I’d never see again.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Plus I think Terry’s just regular Spiderman more than any other kind.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Will Superman ever show up on HBO max?

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

I guess there's not an HD version of Superman, which is kind of a shame, as it's the one I think I'm most interested in revisiting.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006


If that was the whole of the GI Joe movie, I would be satisfied by it. Possibly more than I was by the full GI Joe movie.

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I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

“International”

Does it seem more normal to people outside the US to see American flags all over something run by Americans and then be told that it’s an international effort with support from many countries?

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