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So I'm gonna be reading The Dark Knight Returns for the first time in a bit. Should I check out the two part movie adaptation? Also I re-watched X-Men Evolution recently. I still liked it a lot.
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Apr 13, 2017 21:09
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notthegoatseguy posted:I haven't watched it in a long time but it gets so much better after they pretty much ditch the high school setting. Before then, the episodes range from mundane to offensively bad. My opinion on this is that it was a good idea to show them as normal teenagers in high school even if many of the episodes, particularly in Season 1, were weak. I remember very distinctly that TAS starts with everyone knowing about mutants, as do the original movies. I think something is lost when you do it that way. The whole point of the X-Men or "mutants as metaphors" is that these people are just like you and me. (you and I?) We see that in Season 1 and most of Season 2. We see them go to a perfectly normal high school, they play sports and join afterschool clubs, they have non-powered friends, etc.. So when Season 3 rolls around and we see them exposed, it's so much more effective in my opinion. I remember Principal Kelly having to give back all the school's soccer trophies because Jean played on their soccer team and maybe she used her powers to cheat. Obviously that's a pretty minor thing compared to the season opening with the military launching a manhunt for the "mutant menace." But it's the kind of storytelling I liked about Evolution. It focused a lot on the little things. I definitely think the "before and after" approach makes the concept work better. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Apr 13, 2017 |
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Apr 13, 2017 22:03
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I don't remember seeing much of TNBA but i remember seeing like, a thread on another forum discussing the evolution of Poison Ivy's designs. TAS Ivy was pretty much just a sexy redhead and nothing else in terms of design. TNBA made her look a bit more distinct IIRC. The Batman had my favorite Ivy design because she actually looked like a plant lady.
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Apr 24, 2017 03:06
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Lurdiak posted:The tie-in comics to BTAS, The New Batman Adventures, and Batman Beyond are (largely) very good, too. Animated nothing, I think Mask of the Phantasm might just be the best Batman film period. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjAFbEP0wK4 Although since you mentioned BB, Return of the Joker is my personal favorite Batman movie. Also, were The Batman's tie-in comics any good?
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Apr 24, 2017 05:47
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Lurdiak posted:That's what I... I, uh... You're right, I misread your post. Sorry.
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Apr 24, 2017 06:00
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I once tallied up all the awful poo poo that happened to Bruce in the DCAU and it is quite depressing. Epilogue is a hopeful ending of course but you still have to consider all the time he spent alone before Terry came along. Also it makes me sad to think his buddies in the League all abandoned him, or more likely he pushed them away. I guess that romance with WW never panned out. OnimaruXLR posted:To all the people saying that Batman Beyond depicts a future where Batman has failed... Bruce Wayne does a lot more than punch muggers. Although it depends on the depiction I guess, some versions of Batman are an ideal that you believe can triumph over everything. Except his own demons, of course. The idea that he failed both as a hero and at life in general just reinforces the idea that Batman is not so different from the other weirdos he fights. That was an important idea in the DCAU of course but it's still not fun to consider in its full implications.
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Apr 25, 2017 02:26
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ImpAtom posted:It's never explained in-series but out-of-series material basically says that Barbara got between Dick and Bruce. I find the normal person vs. superhero alterego concept is one of the more legitimately fascinating aspects of comic books or comic book-based media. A lot of people think Clark Kent is the disguise and Superman is the real him. Same for Batman. Even Bruce think of himself as "Batman " and not "Bruce Wayne" in his own head as shown by that one BB episode where some guy tried to drive him crazy. I don't know what it says about the audience when they think the guy in the mask is "the real character" but I think TAS was intended to show us that neither Bruce nor Batman are actually the real person. They're both lies and facades crafted to fit different situations. I don't think he knows who he is and I don't think he thought about it, he just did things so he didn't have to think about it.
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Apr 25, 2017 04:40
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Is YJ a good show and worth checking out?
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Apr 25, 2017 17:57
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So I have a random question. What do you think of "altered origins"? I've been thinking about The Batman a lot lately and I'm remembering how I didn't much care for its version of Robin because it just didn't do anything really interesting with him, IMO. I was very pointedly disappointed with how predictable his origin was. Now you might say "duh, of course its predictable because the origin is vital to the character and so everyone knows it." But I feel like origins should have something unique about them for adaptations. For instance, in The Batman, they tied together Batgirl and Poison Ivy's origins by making them school friends.
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Apr 26, 2017 06:55
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What did people here think of the Red Hood movie? i saw it years ago and I remember liking it. I'm making my way through Batman everything, for the time being its animated stuff and I was thinking I'd re-watch the movie along with my first re-watch of TAS in...uh, I don't think I ever watched all of TAS, actually.
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Apr 27, 2017 13:42
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If we're making fun of TAS, I have to post this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5v2RdxYGqk Even a little kid can't be scared of those oversized jobbers. Also Jordan7hm I legit recommend X-Men Evolution for your son. I could point out how the Sentinel in Evo is actually cool and threatening but more importantly, Evolution just does a really nice job with the characters and drama. The whole series is on YouTube. I can sympathize with wanting to skip Season 1 but Season 2 has "On Angel's Wings" which I loved. https://youtu.be/kk-5COw0cOM Also the voice-acting in this is actually decent. It was all done by the Ocean Group who are cool people who do a lot of anime dubs. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Apr 28, 2017 |
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Apr 28, 2017 06:27
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Rhonne posted:I liked that episode of X-men Evolution where we got a flash back to the time back in WW2 when Wolverine and Captain America liberated a concentration camp and saved a young Magneto. Operation Rebirth. It's a good episode. It's also cool when old Magneto is helpless and Kurt has a chance to kill him but doesn't. Similarly there's the episode where he tries to save the petrified Mystique but Rogue just kicks her off a cliff. (sadly she was revived but what can you do it was still a powerful moment)
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Apr 28, 2017 08:47
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It's rather unexpected to see praise for more Wolverine overexposure. One of my favorite things about Evolution was that, while they made the main team teenagers, they kept Wolverine as an adult. As such, no Wolverine moping about Jean not loving him or screaming JEAN all the time or any of that crap.
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Apr 28, 2017 14:20
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Anyway, I have a ton of Bat comics to get next week but I'm also looking for animated Bat stuff. I was watching vids on YT and I saw clips of Damian Robin and Red Robin. Does anyone know where those might be from? Also saw a spiffy looking Nightwing kicking rear end. The scene I saw wasn't from Red Hood or anything else I recognized.
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Apr 28, 2017 14:49
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Aphrodite posted:Looks like the only animated appearance of Red Robin is in the Batman Unlimited DTV movies. Interesting, thank you. purple death ray posted:The other DC animated movies, like Batman vs. Robin, Bad Blood, and there's others. They're all mediocre to awful, though. Fair enough. I'll just get the TDKR movie to go along with the comic and leave everything else for later. I got plenty of B:TAS to re-watch anyway. Speaking of which, wow, these first few episodes are pretty rough. Then again, I have yet to see a series that didn't have a few problems when starting out.
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Apr 28, 2017 15:08
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ToastyPotato posted:I think it has trouble articulating its point, but I do understand the point it is trying to make, I think. I believe Batman is saying he doesn't kill the Joker or people like him because it would quickly become his go to method for dealing with problems like that. It wouldn't stop at Joker, or Penguin, or Two Face, or Black Mask. I think the implication is that he is already kind of addicted to crossing legal lines and using violence to deal with criminals, if he normalizes the idea of killing them for himself, he's going to become addicted to that too, and it would be very, very easy for him to do it. Probably much easier than what he is doing now. It's an interesting idea that a lot of comic stuff seem to dance around, but I have never seen any one story really commit to exploring the idea deeply. Yep. I was talking with some people accusing Batman of being a Libertarian ideal. The fundamental flaw with that argument is the idea that Batman is anyone's ideal anything.I have a lot of comics to read I know but at least in the animated series, I felt like there was a very obvious relation between Batman and his villains. As in, he's hardly any different from them. The only thing keeping him from becoming as bad as they are is his no kill rule. I was told this idea that Batman is a deranged madman on the edge is a product of Miller and before him Batman was a true ideal but I have no proof eitehr way on that.
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Apr 29, 2017 03:26
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SonicRulez posted:I liked the X-Men Evolution episode with X-23 in it. I remember that show had Spyke and I remember really not liking him, but I do not know why. X-23 had one of my favorite fights in the series against Wolverine in her intro episode. https://youtu.be/C48AQQRo_8s?t=16m12s Other standout fights were: Scarlet Witch destroying the entire X-Men team with ease, the X-Men vs. Juggernaut at the start of Season 3, and Magneto vs. Apocalypse where Apocalypse annihilates Mags with a wave of his hand and then Pyro watches Magneto die on replay over and over again while laughing.
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Apr 29, 2017 17:45
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ToastyPotato posted:The only time it has made sense is basically the Under the Red Hood interpretation I mentioned before, because that isn't about morals and ethics, it's about a sick man knowing that there isn't any coming back from that for him personally. Yep, this is why I defend Batman against a lot of his haters. This interpretation of the no kill rule, as a flaw more than anything, is interesting and sensible. The problem is stuff like The Dark Knight wants to make it a sign of how noble he is, when it's really a sign of how hosed up he is. I was recently thinking about Man of Steel and The Dark Knight. How many people wanted Bats to just off The Joker yet then they went on to get their panties in a twist when Supes killed Zod?
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May 1, 2017 05:21
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ImpAtom posted:Batman murdering the Joker and how it a massively damaging thing to his reputation is, uh, kind of a serious plot point there and Batman murdering the Joker is what turns him into a real vampire. What are you talking about? Which story is about Jason Todd? He seems to be quite unpopular here.
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May 1, 2017 15:18
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ImpAtom posted:Jason Todd was the second Robin and his gimmick, once they gave him one, was that he was the Bad Boy. He also was fairly unpopular and they actually killed him off after a phone poll where people voted on his survival. I'm aware of most of that. Been doing as much research on the Bat Family as I can the last few days. Plus I watched Under the Red Hood. Thank you for the info, though.
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May 1, 2017 16:16
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ImpAtom posted:I've said it before but "Why don't you kill the Joker" relies on the comic book idea that the Joker, a completely non-powered regular person, will always and without fail escape from jail/the asylum and that there is no force on Earth that can contain him, and that bit of comic book lore must be taken as accurate, but only that bit. There is no point where anything else can be accepted and so we have to deal with the infinitely tedious argument over killing The Joker because I guess death is a magic button that will stop him forever? (Unless he's infested Tim Drake/has a magic Joker virus/literally comes back from Hell/is cloned/pops back in from an alternate dimension.) Well, to me, it should depend. For us, we know death is near-meaningless in comics. But for the people of the DC Universe, it should carry some weight. "He'll escape from prison" shouldn't be lumped in with "he'll escape from Hell even if you kill him." That would just erode all semblance of meaning to anything that happens. At that point, the characters in-universe admit death has no lasting effect, The Punisher becomes a waste of everyone's time and Batman's no kill rule is similarly worthless.
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May 1, 2017 22:50
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So I just want to say that, after reading Dark Knight Returns, I'm not really interested in a animated adaptation any longer. I feel like TDKR's greatest strength was the fact it was a comic. A significant part of the story is just talking heads and random scenes of the madhouse that is Gotham City. I can't imagine how you would adapt any of this well. I know that's what some people say about Watchmen too but I dunno. I have Watchmen but I haven't, uh, watched it yet. But it still feels like a lot more happens in Watchmen than TDKR so you could more easily adapt it. Plus I simply have more faith in David Hayter and Zack Snyder and all the actors than I do in whoever made some DC cartoon movie. Apparently no recent DC animated work is that well-regarded.
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May 15, 2017 16:12
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So they're making a new She-Ra? I never watched the original but I was considering it because it was recommended on the same Amazon page as Jem & the Holograms. Since I liked Jem and figured She-Ra would be kinda the same thing, I thought about buying it. Never did because I had other things to spend my money on than some series I had only vague interest in but maybe I'll look into it. I would like to contrast this new series with the old, like contrasting the Jem comic with the old cartoon.
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Jul 19, 2018 10:22
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just wanna pop in to say everyone remembers and loves 90s Apocalypse and that is fair. But 90s Kingpin was great and I wish more people remembered him, too. He was one of the many reasons I loved Spiderman The Animated Series. The other reason is the series-long mythos and protracted story arcs discussed last page. It did it in a much more organic way than XTAS. But my favorite animated comic book series will probably always be X-Men Evolution. Not the best but I love the X-Men and Evo did them justice. Made Rogue my favorite. I'm a Marvel guy, I guess.
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Jul 13, 2020 13:21
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Knight2m posted:Old Bruce owns. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqRATvE-gXo Although being reminded of the Ra's episode just reminds me how DCAU Bruce's life is utter misery. Talia being bodyjacked by Ra's is just one more awful thing to befall a man whose entire life was a parade of awful things. Blockhouse posted:The secret of Batman Beyond is that it's basically a Spider-Man cartoon A long time ago I was big into comic book nerd poo poo like who could beat who and I made a video compilation of all of Terry's "feats." There's a scene where he is pinned under this giant object...I forget what it was but he does like a push up and gets it off him. Somebody said this scene was a direct ripoff of Spiderman, mainly due to the object being identical to a scene with Spidey. Can't say how true this is but I wouldn't be surprised. Spacebump posted:I don't know if I've ever enjoyed a comic book continuation of a tv show. They always fall flat for me. When I watched The Batman I heard a lot of good things about its comic. Gave us more Poison Ivy and I loved The Batman's Poison Ivy. Totally underrated.  Big titted bombshell is all well and good but how about a geeky eco terrorist friend of Batgirl? And then it had Goth Riddler. To be blunt, I remember The Batman's villains far more fondly than Batman Beyond's with the exception of Inque.
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Aug 27, 2020 03:04
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Skwirl posted:It almost certainly is, but it's more homage than ripoff. Every single person the writers/storyboard artists considered a peer would have recognized it immediately. Fair enough. Poor choice of words on my part. I love BB, wasn't trying to poo poo on it or anything. Return of the Joker is the best Batman film ever. In fact, all the best Batman films are animated - ROTJ and Under the Red Hood are so great.
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Aug 27, 2020 14:16
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The core problem is always that comic book are slaves to a status quo. Superman and Batman COULD make great changes to their world but that wouldn't totally ruin the story. As such, I mostly read AU/What-Ifs/etc.. One of the first comics I ever read was Superman: Red Son which suggests that, if he was motivated enough, Superman could make the entire planet into a Soviet-style "utopia." You'd have no freedom but, as somebody pointed out when I first read the comic and discussed whether Supes was a hero or not "I don't think starving people care much about freedom." Superman might be Big Brother but that comes with good consequences in addition to bad ones. But the point is, whenever people ask "why doesn't Batman just kill The Joker?" the answer will always be "because it's a comic book and the status quo reigns supreme." Also I just post this now 
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Sep 3, 2020 23:50
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site posted:Isn't flash considered a potential genius because he can learn everything extremely quickly. I thought that was an actual thing for DC characters I have always hated Flash wank. I used to hear about how he was the strongest being ever because apparently a pebble at FTL speeds could supposedly destroy a planet or something. Ergo, Flash is the strongest being ever. That's almost never how it is in anything. "Speedstars" are fast but not strong or tough. They will run really fast at you but against any serious opponent, they just run into a brick wall because all they have is speed. You need Superman or somebody if you want strength.
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Sep 4, 2020 18:45
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ImpAtom posted:Just below that one is another great one. This rules but also can Garfield & Friends talk go here? It's Halloween, it's time to revisit a classic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3FJePrGZb8 I watched a lot of things growing up but far and away the most important cartoons for little me were Pinky & the Brain and Garfield & Friends. I find they both hold up and I'm glad somebody uploaded this to YT to future generations can enjoy.
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Oct 24, 2020 00:54
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So I posted Garfield Halloween, figured I'd post this as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbL-uxd4ZVw Think I mentioned it last time but this was THE show of my childhood, along with Pinky & The Brain. And I feel like they entirely hold up. I doubt at this point I will ever have a child but for the kids of my friends, I feel like they would enjoy these just as much as I did.
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Dec 20, 2020 22:21
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As bad as that whole plot was, this scene is beautiful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2pfuSxXaMw&t=87s Terry: I've got it covered...always. Also just the fact Terry is growing up to be a pretty normal, happy guy with a functioning romantic relationship. I feel like Bruce Wayne suffered enough for everybody in the DCEU and Terry deserves the most fulfilling, peaceful life possible.
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Dec 22, 2020 18:40
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Plus she never explains why Terry ended up becoming Spiderman instead of Batman after all that. I like that this was a plot point in Return of the Joker. That movie was so good.
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Apr 5, 2021 14:39
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Calaveron posted:To be fair, the DCAU was extraordinarily horny. Many, many years ago now I was talking with people about favorite Batman character designs and it was interesting to note how, even though Ivy is a buxom temptress in TAS, she's very different in a lot of other stuff. She's not as sexualized in her TNBA redesign, and in The Batman she's a skinny nerd. The Batman is an underrated version of Ivy in general.
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Oct 29, 2021 16:43
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I don't read comics too often but I've always liked Titania and Absorbing Man in Marvel because they aren't really evil. They're crooks but usually presented very sympathetically, AM might even go to a bar and sing with the heroes about their girl troubles. Anyway, on the topic of reformed villains, a few years ago there was a comic called Illuminati: Life of Crime that was prematurely cancelled but it was centered on Titania trying to go legit but being unable to find regular work and also SHIELD had brainwashed Creel into thinking he was somebody else. I had the relevant scans of Titania talking to Shulkie about how hard it is to go straight and narrow but can't get to my imgur right now. It was interesting, though. In any event, this thread has made me kind of interested in the HQ show. Wonder what happened to Harley's accent, though. I dunno, just first thing I thought when hearing her voice in this preview for Season 3.
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Oct 30, 2021 19:35
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OnimaruXLR posted:Wasn't she positioned to be Batgirl's nemesis in The Batman? Yes. It's been a while but my memory is that Pam and Babs were friends at school and they were both environmentalists but Pam wanted to go further and they went to break into some lab or whatever, an accident happened, and Pam ended up as Poison Ivy. She tried to reach out to Babs at first but Barbara actually became Batgirl to fight her and save Batman. Ivy nearly took over the city at one point with mind controlling plants. She basically had a lot more power going on than TAS Ivy with her tentacle vines and brainwashing kisses. Sadly, despite her close relationship to Barbara and Barbara being more prominent than Robin in The Batman (Robin also has the same boring old origin as opposed to this far more interesting origin for Babara), she doesn't really do anything after nearly taking over Gotham. As I recall, she gets more focus in The Batman comic. But yeah, like The Batman's Riddler, I love The Batman's take on Ivy. She had no connection at all to Harley here and I'm told in another Batman cartoon wheer Ivy and Harley aren't close, I think Harley is the one with a close relation to Barbara? Just something mentioned elsewhere. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Oct 31, 2021 |
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Oct 31, 2021 01:52
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So all this talk of comic book cartoons is making me want to rewatch my favorite one of all time, X-Men Evolution. But I'm a fair man and when thinking about all it did right, I can't help but think of one thing it did terribly, terribly wrong. X-Men Evolution ends with Pietro and Wanda carrying away their father Magneto after they freed him from mind control. It's very touching. Meanwhile, Rogue and Kurt turn their back on Mystique, their mother who has also been brought back to her senses. Now, Mystique and Magneto have a lot of awful deeds to their name but Evo Mystique is generally portrayed as more evil than Mags. But all of that matters not to me because Wanda only helps her father away because he literally had her brainwashed to forget why she hates him. The narrative presents this sweet scene of "aw, look, these kids can forgive and love their father" but it's all a sham! If Wanda had her own mind, her own will, she'd do a Rogue and kick her helpless pops off a cliff. So, even if in some rather arbitrary moral calculus way Mystique is more evil than Magneto, it doesn't justify the dichotomy presented here of forgiveness and rejection. Mags should be just as rejected as Mystique was. I've never understood what the writers were thinking. Everything they do with Wanda post-brainwashing strikes me as "she's OP plz nerf" and no further thought put into it at all.
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Nov 1, 2021 20:35
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Lobok posted:Hoping they pick up exactly where they left off as if nearly 30 years hadn't passed. Does that include the awful final season? And it was awful even by the show's standards I was just talking to some folks elsewhere about what old comic toons hold up and how X-Men TAS definitely doesn't. I guess it be too much to hope we'd get a continuation of X-Men Evolution. It's only the much better show with a lot more plot threads left hanging.
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Nov 12, 2021 17:51
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Toshimo posted:Explain. Which part? Because admittedly it's been a long time since I watched TAS and I bailed on Season 5 because I wasn't liking any of it. Bit in my experience, even fans of the show didn't like the final season. But as for the rest of the series' badness, the writing and voice-acting are both laughably terrible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-K1D8y_Pxs The costume designs are hideous. Jubilee was bad even by the standards of the 90s, imagine her in 2021. And they did this to Jean https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzc5VHL1bPM Some people would point to Batman TAS and say "look at what a comic cartoon could be." But I think even Spiderman TAS was a lot better than this with more compelling characters, voice-acting, and writing.
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Nov 12, 2021 18:09
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Skwirl posted:"Holds up" probably isn't the right phrase, but I think X-Men '96 is worth watching for at least the first couple of seasons (through Dark Phoenix at least) even among people too young to have seen it as an artifact of it's time. I defend my precious assertion Spiderman TAS was not only better than X-Men TAS, it was legit good. I loved how everything was connected, even B:TAS tended to be episodic while everything that happened in Spiderman played into the larger mythos. And while I give due respect to TAS Apocalypse who was legit good, TAS Kingpin was just as amazing and was fear more prominent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwauBJAfMXg And he wasn't alone. Jennifer Hale as Black Cat, Solid Snake as Captain America, and of course Christopher Daniel Barnes was great as Peter. AlternateNu posted:People should just watch the Honest Trailer for it: You know that lady who voiced Jean here with her X-gasms also voiced Jill Valentine in original RE3 and does basically the exact same thing there.
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Nov 12, 2021 20:45
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There was the F4 cartoon with fuckin' Tony Jay as Galactus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUJOeuxpXE I think that's the only thing worth remembering about it. He was Baron Mordo in Spidey TAS instead of Dormammu which is kind of weird but oh well. Dawgstar posted:X-Men Evolution deserves it more. Preach! I'm so tempted to do a rewatch of it again. It's honestly my favorite comic cartoon ever. Not the best maybe but still so damned good in so many ways. If we're talking adaptations that take a chance and do their own thing, Evo deserve all the props for being so ambitious. I think one of its most daring moves was responding to Wolverine's even greater popularity due to his portrayal in TAS by...having him be the old man (Logan) in a show centered on the kids. He's a main character but decidedly less important or prominent than the others. Back during my last rewatch, I tried to look up some research on the show or its fandom and while it's hardly definitive, I found these polls http://evolution.eracerx.com/polls.php quote:Favorite XMen? Now, I'm biased so I'm happy to agree with any poll saying Evo Rogue (my fave character) is also the most popular. But everything I've ever read seems to agree she was a hit because of this show and its interpretation of her. Wolverine meanwhile is below her, Kurt, and Kitty. Also neat poll: quote:Favorite New Recruit? But yeah, I'd love to see more Evo. RIP Kirby Morrow though, they'd need to find a new voice for Scott. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Nov 12, 2021 |
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Nov 12, 2021 23:20
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