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That reading improves the story. Because then Joker really caused Batman to snap, in the perfect way possible. What I find tragic about the Batgirl brouhaha that it ends up diluting the story. It's obscured the actual adaptation in discussion. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Jul 27, 2016 |
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Jul 27, 2016 15:21
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The reading means that Batman snaps not because he's worn down by death and tragedy, but because he actually connects with Joker. He takes the lesson of the joke to heart, and decides to end the charade of two lunatics reinforcing each others' delusions. But really, the page doesn't support that reading very well. The more accurate reading is that Batman snaps, but doesn't kill the Joker. The page emphasises that they''re both cracked.
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Jul 27, 2016 15:50
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Franchescanado posted:I think it's more he's trying to prove it to himself. His world view has been distorted, his life at that point is full of suffering, and his best companion's trust and intentions has been called into question. The only way he can cling to his sanity is to believe that his life hasn't been lived in vain, and that their way works. The obvious conclusion is that Gordon did snap. Holding onto "our way" is his madness. It ties pretty well into the joke. Lurdiak posted:You seem determined to read the story against the authorial intent. The author is dead. Long live the Reader. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Jul 28, 2016 |
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Jul 28, 2016 13:33
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How dare you call Batman dumb!
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Jul 29, 2016 12:13
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You imagine yourself indomitable. A deluded trust fund orphan who vents his rage and frustration on the poor in alleyways! Repeat after me... "I must but away my Batman costume... and retire from crime-fighting!"
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Jul 29, 2016 16:53
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The Killing Joke isn't a very good superhero story. The superhero element just doesn't add that much to the story, so you end up with a weird serial killer story where the detective and killer both dress very silly.
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Aug 1, 2016 21:56
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ImpAtom posted:The Killing Joke can only be a superhero story because it relies very heavily on the status quo of eternal escape being a thing which is basically a thing exclusive to superheroes or saturday morning cartoon characters who are indistinguishable from superheroes. Not at all. Lawmen and criminals having antagonistic but continuing relationships is a very standard idea in fiction (Justified and Hannibal for some more recent examples). Turning Killing Joke into a "mundane" thriller is as easy as combining the roles of Batman and Jim Gordon, and not having Joker depend so much on a theatrical persona. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Aug 1, 2016 |
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Aug 1, 2016 22:08
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ImpAtom posted:Part of the idea of The Killing Joke is that the Joker can not be contained not because of character but because of status quo. Not really. There's nothing that can't be recontextualized as a cop who's death with the same criminal a couple of times. You're really overthinking the concept of "status quo". It gives the story some additional meaning, but it's still not a very good superhero story.
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Aug 1, 2016 22:55
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The Killing Joke didn't actually define the Batman's and Joker's relationship. In The Killing Joke, Joker is a pained individual desperate to rationalize his suffering and make others understand. Most every comic actually just go back to Joker's original characterization as a remorseless, theatrical serial killer.SonicRulez posted:I'm not trying to be condescending. What is the superhero element? If the dressing silly and WE CAN'T KILL HIM and Bat-Signal doesn't do it, what is the missing stuff that you feel keeps it from being a superhero story? Not enough biffs and pows? A good superhero story. In this case, it lacks the imagination and scale of a superhero story. And it stumbles on basic genre building blocks. The comic never establishes, for example, that Batman is a vigilante crime-fighter who dresses as a supernatural creature to frighten criminals. According to The Killing Joke, Batman is a strangely-dressed man that inexplicably commands the respect and reverence of police officers and criminals alike. Things like this make the comic feel vague and inconstant. e: So yes, the movie is actually superior as a superhero yarn. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 10:28
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A schlocky soap opera that operates on shock value is both a very apt and very poor comparison.
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Aug 2, 2016 11:27
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notthegoatseguy posted:Why would it do any of those things? What would it have added to the story if it did? Adding superhero action to the story would have made it a superhero story. Anyway, I was incorrect: the comic takes 30 pages to establish that Batman is a vigilante crime-fighter. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 13:52
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Franchescanado posted:You argue that it is an unsuccessful superhero comic because it doesn't have enough POWs and BOOMs and flying fists. Superhero stories benefit from superhero action. The Killing Joke is barely keeping with even the trappings of the genre. The fairground setting is at least some good stuff, in the original colours. The movie conversely has superhero action, but it doesn't have the comic's visual and narrative strength. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 14:32
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Franchescanado posted:Superhero stories benefit from Superhero Action. This does not define them. Actually it does define them. The superhero genre is fundamentally about exceptional figures in extraordinary or superhuman action and drama. The spate of the PoMo "superhero" comics that are "not defined by superhero action" is more a device to sell non-superhero stories in a market where superhero comics are supreme - Ex Machina is a good example. The superhero aspect is a fairly obvious way of "selling" the political drama, and the comic tends to lose focus when the superhero aspect takes over. The Fix is the exact same comic as Sinister Foes, just without superheroes or supervillains. And calling comics like Sinister Foes, Squirrel Girl, and Howard the Duck iconoclastic or innovative is pretty silly, they operate by equally strict rules of irony and comedy. Also the TKJ comic is better than the movie, but it's still not very good. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 15:15
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Franchescanado posted:Thank you for agreeing with me and admitting you were wrong, it takes a big person to admit defeat. The Killing Joke isn't a very good superhero story, or really a good story. It's not even a good "PoMO" "non-superhero" story. It's obscured by the characters of Batman and Joker, when characters are just devices to tell the story. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Aug 2, 2016 |
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Aug 2, 2016 15:37
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Aug 2, 2016 15:53
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ToastyPotato posted:Stuff like this is probably why Disney doesn't let singular people take too much control over Marvel films. Does it alienate some directors? Yep. But at least no one can hold a film hostage while they deal with completely unrelated things. It's not conventional, and I know some more nerdy film types will view it as completely anti-"art", but considering so many passion projects fall flat on their faces, I am totally ok with the current Disney method. They have a main person show running the MCU, and they make the films based on the road maps provided. Can't work with the roadmap? Peace. It doesn't turn out films that will be studied for for decades, but most films made with the best of artistic intentions aren't either so I'm ok with dropping pretentiousness and just trying to make something enjoyable. That's incredibly entitled. How desperate is the need for comic book movies that independent-minded artists become the enemy? They're movies, not life-saving medicines. And I don't think you realize how hideously depressing your fantasy of corporate paternalism controlling superheroes is. e: Also, Barbara Gordon is Batman's love interest in the Lego movie? Can't wait 
BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 12:55 on Jan 12, 2017 |
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Jan 12, 2017 12:38
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ToastyPotato posted:Who said they are an enemy? Why does it have to be binary? And how is that system entitled? The people who OWN those properties are more entitled to having the movies made the way they are PAYING for them to be made than a random film maker is entitled to do whatever they want with other people's money and property. You are making it sound like some cold corporation is snatching movies from the artists who are trying to make them, which is pretty disingenuous. Disney owns the Marvel properties. Artists aren't entitled to make those movies. Disney hires people to make them. Film making is a profession that involves art, but its a profession. A job. You don't get to do whatever you want just because you call yourself an artist. That's very pretentious and entitled thinking. Well you claimed that Ben Affleck was holding the The Batman hostage. From whom? I'd assumed the audiences who'd enjoy another Batman Movie, but you've clarified that he is holding it hostage from Warner Brothers, the property holder. The former is at least vaguely understandable if silly; the latter is ridiculous. Ben Affleck is acting out with a contract with a corporation. This involves producing and directing a movie as he sees fit. This is by all accounts part of the agreement. No one is being deprived, no one is subject to coercion.
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Jan 12, 2017 20:14
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Batman is one of the most oversaturated characters in media, how in the World could someone have trouble with telling a story about him? I think you knd of answered your own question there, mate. The problem is that you are, as you admitted, anti-art and are concerned with product-delivery efficiency. Most tragically, the product concerned is superhero fantasies, in other words stories about larger-than-lite figures beating impossible odds. Anti-Life is here.
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Jan 12, 2017 20:39
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Lego Batman, through some twists and turns. I think it's going to be good. No movie with Barbara and Bruce as an item can fail.
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Jan 12, 2017 20:57
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Unmature posted:I never understand why people with a rep like BOL don't just spend the ten bucks on a new account and start fresh. Some ask me why I keep my gimmick, and say that I have a lot of loyalty to a tainted username. I'm wondering if they know that I am not a comic book animation before throwing that question at me. At least someone talks to me honestly, and doesn't need to ask who I am. It doesn't matter who ignores who, what matters is the posts. No one cared who I was before I started shitposting. If I stopped, would it hurt? Yes, it would be very sad. "You're a grown rear end adult," you might retort. What I mean is sad for you. ThermoPhysical posted:Though, he also said that the movie should rank between Batman Forever and Batman and Robin for expectations. Well congrats to him, he got himself a Twitter post that will look stupid in hindsight. What's the next step in his master plan? Crashing the movie with no careers surviving?
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Jan 14, 2017 23:14
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X-O posted:You know this is exactly the reason why they did it. And it's really dumb. As a compromise, Nightwing should have his disco costume, but red.
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Jan 20, 2017 10:29
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Roth posted:I remember Gotham High was a thing that was considered at one point Wasn't that a hoax?
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Apr 25, 2017 09:21
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ToastyPotato posted:Has Sleepwalker ever appeared outside of a comic book? He came to me once, in a dream, and offered all the kingdoms of Earth.
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Jun 8, 2017 20:28
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He minored in Canon Trivia Bullshit.
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Sep 20, 2017 10:36
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Teen Titans Go has an episode where Robin is tricked into thinking his parents are alive, as an April Fool's joke. Teen Titans Go is good.
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Nov 18, 2017 22:55
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