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Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Hero of the soviet union.
Accidental destroyer of planets

INinja132 posted:

The actual level of command anyone had over a battle at that time is probably extremely debatable. Everything happened so fast during charges and counter-charges, and as BattleMoose said the armies were getting so big, that by the time you have the huge battles like Borodino and Leipzig, it's basically up to initial plans, local initiative and a healthy dose of luck. Of course that can go either way.

Jena-Auerstedt is a great example of the insanity that was Napoleonics. At Jena, Napoleon basically blundered into what he thought was the whole Prussian army, but was in fact only a small part of it. Cue General Ney launching an unordered suicide charge straight at the Prussians, which Napoleon has to then send more guys to rescue. Meanwhile over at Auerstedt an entirely separate battle was going down where the actual majority of the Prussian army was fighting Davout's Corps, and was handily defeated by Davout's brilliant commanding despite their numbers advantage.

And yes, messengers got lost all the time, which led to a huge amount of orders getting confused, missed or being completely outdated by the time they actually arrived. Jena-Auerstedt provides another great example, where one of Napoleon's Corps (under Bernadotte) kept marching back and forth between the battles, not actually committing to either of them because Napoleon hadn't really told him what to do.

Even though it's obviously not a perfect historical source or anything, Tolstoy's War and Peace actually has some great battle sections which get across the chaos and unpredictability of the battles very well. Even if you don't read the whole thing I'd recommend checking out the Borodino stuff, and some of the earlier, smaller battles as well.

I'm thinking of running a game of Black Powder that has all the divisions commanded by Goons (on both sides) - with everything going through emails and messages moving via riders. I want to recreate as much of the fog of war as possible - I'm not sure HOW often to make the messengers get lost, or how fast to make them move yet, but the planning stage is there.

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Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Hero of the soviet union.
Accidental destroyer of planets

HEY GAL posted:

the miniatures game? only if our little dudes really exist on a table somewhere and Grey Hunter takes pictures of them every so often

As the game would be large and take weeks to play, it'll be digital maps I'm afraid.


HEY GAL posted:

also the same company makes pike and shotte

Now there is a thing. I love the idea of putting HEY GAL in charge of a 30YW army.....

I'm just waiting for my kids sleep pattern to settle down a bit, but I'm probably going to do this now. It'll just take me time to sort out the art assets.

Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Hero of the soviet union.
Accidental destroyer of planets

Comstar posted:

From the guy who's very happy to see a Stuka coming down to the poetic shots at long distance, I'm not very enthusiastic that the director of The Dark Knight can pull it off. Still, it's a movie about Operation Dynamo, so maybe it will be good? I haven't heard anything to say it will actually mention that the French were 50% of the soilders evacuated, or the very heavy losses they took to save the BEF.


I'm just happy someone is making a war film that shows the British doing something other than sitting around drinking tea and breaking all of the codes.

Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Hero of the soviet union.
Accidental destroyer of planets

HEY GAL posted:

as far as i can tell, it's mostly swedes

And Brit's. The two powerhouses of world history. ;)

Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Hero of the soviet union.
Accidental destroyer of planets
And up to date - not to self, don't let yourself get 2,000 post behind ever again....

Okay! Book recomendation time.

I've just finished "Europe's Tragedy" and am looking for something new.

After reading about how screwed up the armies were in the period, is there a good book on how they went from feudal levies to mercenaries? Or just on the mercs themselves?

From what I get (this is a new period of history for me) it was a transition from the smaller forces and feudal lead to a more industrial pay led scheme - basically in the Feudal system, you had to fight because your local lord would know if you didn't. In the later periods you fought for pay and for your country, but I guess this was a transition period where you pretty much fought for pay. Then it became cheaper to just hire mercenaries rather than maintain a trained army?

Many questions.

Otherwise anything good on the Huns/Goths and the "Barbarian" invasion of Europe/Rome?

Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Hero of the soviet union.
Accidental destroyer of planets
Thanks for the recomendations - Mercenaries and their masters is the next read - after a pallet clenser of Machine of Death.

Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Hero of the soviet union.
Accidental destroyer of planets

Dyslexia - the fun of spelling the wrong words so your spell checker makes you look like a idiot.

I defiantly hate it.

Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Hero of the soviet union.
Accidental destroyer of planets

Kemper Boyd posted:

That sounds like a myth of American exceptionalism, though. Most western countries have not been subject to military coups.

(in the last hundred years or so......)

Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Hero of the soviet union.
Accidental destroyer of planets
Not real history, but some people might be interested in the LP I've just started of the Thirty Years War

come regal the thread with your knowledge and laugh at my pitiful attempts to win a war!

Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Hero of the soviet union.
Accidental destroyer of planets

Panzeh posted:

The Entente did eventually learn to deal with this defensive approach by taking and holding the front trench and forcing the Germans with withdraw just by being there, but it was a tough lesson and part of the reason this had some success is because the Germans blew all their reinforcements on the Michael offensive. Then again, the German domestic situation in 1918 demanded that something had to change. World War I had a lot of moving parts.

Yeah, but several million of them weren't moving by the end of the war.

Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Hero of the soviet union.
Accidental destroyer of planets

Panzeh posted:

Sir, sir, we call them consims, or 'conflict simulations'.

Or "My second job"....

Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Hero of the soviet union.
Accidental destroyer of planets
The hilarious part of a lot of those "who would win" scenarios is that they can be spun in great ways

"Who would win between a Minuteman and a redcoat?" - The Redcoat
"Who would win between the NVA and US soldiers?" - The US.

But wait - both of those sides lost the war! - because war is more than who can fight the best on the battlefield.


I'm reading Fusiliers atm, and there is something I find interesting - Washington wins a victory where he ambushes some sleeping Hessians and butchers them - this is regarded as good tactics.
Later in the war, the British light infantry do the same to the American troops, and they spin it as a massacre and a ungodly thing to do.
They then turn around and try and do it the the British at Brandywine (IIRC) and get their asses handed to them as soon as the mist clears and the British troops sort themselves out.

Propaganda is an amazing thing.

Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Hero of the soviet union.
Accidental destroyer of planets
This was Napoleon 's plan though, take out the British and Prussians before the Russians and Austrians could form up.

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Grey Hunter
Oct 17, 2007

Hero of the soviet union.
Accidental destroyer of planets
Just nipping in to let you know I'm running a goon vs goon Lp of Combat Mission - Final Blitzkreig.

So if any of you guys don't follow the LP forum and want to know how you would do in command of a WWII unit - get in there!

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