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Yvonmukluk posted:I kind of read this as one thing and my brain kind of melted figuring out how that work. A modded game of Civ gone horribly awry? There actually was a Soviet/China-war inbetween world wars, but I think he meant two different post series here: The posts about Taiping, and the posts about the war between Poland and the Soviet Union (coincidentally, that one also happened between WWI and WWII).
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Aug 3, 2016 09:04
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bewbies posted:I've also never really understood why people think they want realistic war movies. If a war movie was realistic it would be really really really really boring for the first two and half hours and then the last 15 minutes would be really loud and confusing There actually was a movie like that. It was about some knight conflict from long ago and it was 90% boring political stuff and the rest was the protagonist getting maimed by a cannon ball and very slowly dying from it. The epilogue then proudly explained how the Catholic church declared cannons for unholy or something so no-one would use those horrible weapons ever again!
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Aug 10, 2016 10:52
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Endman posted:The English are garbage. Technically, they're Island Apes. ("Inselaffen" is a German slur for Englishmen.  )
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Aug 17, 2016 08:54
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Raenir Salazar posted:The latter isn't entirely unreasonable, there was a US mission to Yannan and the CPC had tried really hard to woo the US mission over. If the US had taken a pragmatic approach to China much like the British did and didn't ignore the Chinese concerns regarding Korea I think China could have been opened up 20 years earlier. I think the Soviets were a big enough pain in the rear end between 1949 and the Korean War that even the slightest interest by the Americans to normalize relations would've been seriously considered with enough prodding by Zhou Enlai. This reminds me of this weird little bit of German Cold War history: During the early years, German diplomacy in West Germany pretended to hate China, while the DDR pretended to love them, both states following the feelings of their respective overlords astonishingly close. When feelings between China and the USSR cooled of later during the 50s, both nations switched places on this issue. Suddenly West Germany didn't think China was that bad anymore and East Germany developed cold feet about their relationship. I think I even faintly remember reading some positively ancient German newspaper articles on microfiche about the US complaining about our (Western) sudden switch to CHINA NOT BAD. (Of course the situation was more complex, I'm simplifying a lot to make a joke.)
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Aug 24, 2016 08:24
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In older wars, soldiers also had to fear disease more than in later ages, I think. Must have been horrifying to see your comrades all around you die by making GBS threads themselves.
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Aug 26, 2016 20:03
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Jack2142 posted:I mean I know it's a bad idea, however the throwing away lives in operations with slim chances of success seems pretty par for the course in WWI. I am not trying to say this would have been a good idea, it just seems like with how heavily the Germans were gambling in 1918 I just was wondering if there was any consideration of rolling the dice at sea like they were elsewhere. The story of the German High Seas Fleet is a sad one. It started the war with everyone in high spirits and filled with can-do attitude, but thanks to the Kaiser not wanting to risk his ships the fleet had to operate under idiotic constraints. German admirals had to fight like mad to make battles like Jutland possible and every little scratch on their ships made the Kaiser flip out in anxiousness. So even though the High Seas Fleet made a good showing, thanks to being ordered back to port over and over again the morale of the fleet slowly eroded. After Jutland it got progressively worse. I would say the last chance to have a good old battle for the High Seas Fleet was in 1917, after that the corrosion was to deep: The Kaiser had made his fleet finally useless. The High Seas Fleet of 1918 was completely unable to conduct a major operation with any chance of success. By October 1918 things had gotten disfunctional to rather silly levels. The suicide order could only be made because the higher echelons of the fleet at that point were totally out of touch with what their crews were thinking. If they had known how rotten the fleet was, they would have scuttled the fleet immediately and send everyone home.
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Sep 23, 2016 11:51
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Perestroika posted:Say, I've read it a few times now that Chamberlain gets an unfairly bad reputation. The reasoning there being Britain was simply not capable of pursuing a successful war against Germany that at the time, so holding appeasement was the more realistic option left, giving Britain the time to arm up and strengthen their military. That's interesting, I've heard Chamberlain was against war because he didn't want to start something like WWI again, which would be the opposite of arguing "Britain was just not ready for war yet". Can someone say what Chamberlain was really thinking?
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Sep 23, 2016 12:21
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System Metternich posted:I just remembered that I did a D&D effort post years ago about a MilHist topic, but I'm not sure if I even knew that this thread was a thing back then, so I'm reposting it here because maybe you'll be interested and maybe you'll tell me the myriad ways in which I got it wrong  Holy poo poo, the siege of Candia was brutal.
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Sep 26, 2016 13:00
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MikeCrotch posted:Wait wait wait If it's like with the Bundeswehr, there's probably a light version they could have worn instead for this. But I can attest even a light anti-NBC suit makes you nearly blind and deaf. Wearing it inside a BMP sounds like a recipe for disaster. The better way concerning NBC-dangers is probably to take something like the German NBC-version Fuchs (Fox) and mark dangerous areas you find so your troops can avoid them. (The NBC Fuchs is more like a NC-tank, by the way. The original version can only retrieve samples for bio-detection, which then has to happen elsewhere. There was a mobile lab called BIRD which was supposed to help the tank detect bio-weapons by itself, but since 2002 Rheinmetall is advertising a new Bio-Fox variant so I guess that attachable lab idea is now for the birds.) Edit: Added a picture!  Spürpanzer Fuchs from ABC-Abwehrbataillon 750 / NBC-Defense Battalion 750 Libluini fucked around with this message at 12:28 on Oct 3, 2016 |
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Oct 3, 2016 12:21
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Hogge Wild posted:looks like charles v was right wrt. the german language He said the German language is beautiful? Woah, I totally didn't know this!
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Oct 4, 2016 22:13
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HEY GAL posted:halt maul oefter (umlaut on the o instead of e after it) "Öfter mal Maul halten" would sound more natural in German, though "Shut the gently caress Up More Often" -> "Mal öfter die Schnauze halten" would be closer to the original meaning by introducing rude German slang someone who wants to use these options should add a personal touch like this: "Öfter mal Maul halten, Kumpel" and "Mal öfter die Schnauze halten, Alter"
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Oct 14, 2016 14:55
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I've been starting to continue reading Castles of Steel recently and I'm slowly getting to the Battle of Jutland. Dear god, I knew Wilhelm was interfering pretty badly with the German Navy, but I didn't know it was that bad! Even when the German admirals just gave up on using the High Seas Fleet for a while and came up with submarine warfare against commerce as a desperate way to continue fighting, good old Kaiser Wilhelm II. found ways to sabotage his U-Boats. Mostly by waffling around in a comical manner. I mean it's nice that he was so chivalrous about how a fleet was supposed to conduct itself at sea, but it got really painful when he essentially repeatedly went "Yes/No/Yes/No" on the issue of how restricted submarine warfare should be. All the cases where the Imperial Government got a deal with the US, followed by some captain accidentally torpedoing yet another passenger liner with Americans on them just added to the farce. Even more painful were all the cases where German admirals hosed up trying to reconcile bafflingly bad Imperial orders with reality. That part where Admiral Ingenohl just turns around and retreats back into harbour, leaving all of Admiral Hipper's battlecruisers hanging was so horrible I nearly snapped my e-book reader in two just from pity.  Great Britain really should have built our old emperor a statue, he was the greatest war hero they ever had.
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Nov 1, 2016 19:57
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Or Borgward IV? It's kind of funny how both the Germans and the Soviets developed remote-controlled tanks independently of each other. Did the other nations come up with something similar? The Borgward IV by the way, turned out to be too large and too heavy for its intended work. The smaller Goliaths were judged to be more dependable, even though they needed easily cut wires and the Borgward IV did not. There was also another problem with the Borgward IV: The Wehrmacht never quite got the idea of using two vehicles for the same thing, so instead of using a second tank to control the drone tank, operators had to drive the Borgward IV itself to the target area. Then they got out and remote-controlled the thing into the danger zone. Of course this meant every time something went wrong the operators found themselves suddenly on foot.
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Nov 9, 2016 12:35
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Trin Tragula posted:Are we talking "WWI continues because the Central Powers don't dissolve into starving revolution because [reasons]", or "WWI continues because [reasons] allow Germany to fight on alone and not dissolve into starving revolution"? Without lifting the British blockade both scenarios seem incredibly unlikely. You'd need to first take out that nasty blockade as a reason, or these alternative scenarios simply won't work. Now the problem with Germany breaking the blockade is obvious: With Britain prevented from easily shipping reinforcements into France and without the blockade slowly starving Germany into submission, the war wouldn't have continued, either. Germany would have rolled over the exhausted French army and their few British friends and won, the war would have ended in Spring 1918 at the latest! So to continue the war into 1919 we need to invent some elaborate scenario were the British blockade either still exists but somehow is slightly weaker, or some other factor is crippling the German Empire instead, which is doubling the unlikeliness. We're now in the world of the Gayest, Blackest Hitler ever. (Yes I have read Castles of Steel, why do you ask? )
Libluini fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 13:02
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Boiled Water posted:Treaty of Versailles with Germany at the helm would be the most amazing gay black kaiser. What were the German Empires plan anyway if they won? What were their goals for the war? Their goals and plans were, to simplify a bit, stupid. Brest-Litovsk went through without trouble because the war was still running, if the full war goals had been put before the Reichstag, it would have ended in revolution and Germany tearing itself apart. In the Kreuznacher Kriegszielkonferenz no-one except for Hindenburg and Ludendorff took the thing seriously. Admiral von Müller called the conference "A total excess in East and West". Chancellor Bethman Hollweg only signed the program because he saw no reason to resign over "phantasy" /"Phantastereien". Both Hollweg and Zimmermann seemed to be convinced the entire thing would just implode, even after a victory. As the end of the war came, the war goals shifted into beating down Russia even more, one of the plans floated around was tearing Russia apart into four independent Czardoms. This and other, even more fantastical plans got more and more desperate and insane the worse the situation on the Western Front looked. From a historical standpoint, they're certainly interesting, but it's only really relevant if you want to know where Hitler's idea of Lebensraum im Osten was born, to speculate about an actual hypotethical peace of a winning German Empire those last excesses are as useful as listening to dogs barking. All this poo poo is from Wikipedia, though. So even with the tons of citations and sources listed at the bottom, please take that into account. Libluini fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 14:35
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The historian George W. F. Hallgarten had some strong words about those war goals. "Orgy of Ludendorffian militarism" "a giant coalition of anarchic interests" He also calls the Kaiser "a dilettantic dreamer on the throne" because Wilhelm thought (thanks to Ludendorff's influence) that this poo poo was achievable.
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Nov 10, 2016 14:51
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Yvonmukluk posted:Speaking of WWI, what were the Japanese up to during the war? I know they were on the Entente's side and got involved in the RCW, but that's about it. They laid siege to the German colony of Tsingtao, forcing them into surrender after a while. But the story had a good end: After WWII Tsingtao went back to China and the people living there went right back to making German beer. Allegedly it's still as good as during the time German colonial lords abused the colony as their own beer brewery.
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Nov 10, 2016 15:35
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the JJ posted:I remember getting really shirty with some people in here who were convinced that Civilization was a great way to learn about history. To be fair, in my last Civ IV game I conquered the world with Assyria. Which was an accurate retelling of world history. Now excuse me, I have to bring some animals to our local Ashur-temple for some emergency sacrifice. Apparently there's some trouble in Ninive and our priests think more sacrifice will help keep the gods on our side.
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Nov 20, 2016 18:01
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Tias posted:This is kind of the situation here in Denmark, except the period is 12 months at the very most( depending on reg and MOS, it's usually 6-8 months). The officer's staff organization has just come out saying we need to increase the numbers drafted to meet Trumps talk about increasing demands on NATO members, but we're basically just boot camping teenagers and when they're close to making sensible soldiers we let them go again. Oh, and you can't be forced to participate in combat, so our actual intervention force is de facto voluntary and drafting someone is no guarentee of getting a committed soldier in the other end. It's -really- dumb. The Bundeswehr ran into similar problems when conscription was dropped down to 9 months at the end. The solution was the "Freiwillige Wehrplicht", which allowed conscripts to sign up for longer terms, up to 23 months. Ironically, after conscription ended, the voluntary conscription continued and was even expanded: Back when I was in the Bundeswehr, only men were accepted since the voluntary service was just a continuation of your normal conscription. Now that conscription doesn't exist anymore, women are allowed to sign up to the voluntary service, too! They have to be at least 1,55m tall and 17 years old, though. A similar voluntary service exists for the civilian Ersatz-service, but last I heard it wasn't really popular for some reason. MikeCrotch posted:Isn't this a huge problem in Germany at the minute, since you could do social care as your national service instead of serving in the military, meaning that when it was ended the costs of a lot of vital services skyrocketed since they were no longer being done by teenagers paid pennies? Actually until conscription ended we had the opposite problem, there were tons of complaints that all those super-cheap national service teenagers were dragging down wages and social care quality. A lot of people working in social care services were probably relieved when the state stopped undermining their wages.
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Dec 4, 2016 02:31
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spectralent posted:Yeah but if the state stops undermining wages then the cost of the service to the government will go up, so both things are true. It's true, but it needs to be said that the cost of service going up is not a bad thing if the alternative is people literally dying thanks to dumb teenagers replacing actual care workers and nurses.
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Dec 4, 2016 14:00
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SlothfulCobra posted:It's possible, but if they did, there wouldn't be many records of it. The mongols were barely literate anyways; I certainly wouldn't expect them to write about something they'd think of as a weakness. Dan Carlin talked about this in one of his podcasts. If his sources are right, the Mongols apparently didn't even see Non-Mongols as real people. More like weird, Mongol-like muppets walking around.
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Dec 7, 2016 11:24
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Fusion Restaurant posted:Does anyone have thoughts on this syllabus? https://shashankjoshi.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/origins-of-modern-war-syllabus.pdf So there's a part labeled "The Future of War" and it doesn't mention drones? Seems kind of weak, imho Edit: If you can read German, Medienkriege : Menschliche Faktoren strategischen Scheiterns / von Hans-Joachim Ruff-Stahl is a book from 2012 and a bit more closer to today than some of those ancient books in section VII. But probably you don't, so here are some more books to expand the weakest part of the syllabus: - Scales on War : The Future of America's Military at Risk / Scales, Bob / 2016 - Cassandra in Oz : Counterinsurgency and Future War / Crane, Conrad C. /2016 - Just ordinary robots : automation from love to war / Lambèr Royakkers, Rinie van Est / 2015/2016 - A Theory of the Drone / Chamayou, Grégoire / 2015 - Drones and Targeted Killing : Legal, Moral, and Geopolitical Issues / Cohn, Marjorie / 2014 Libluini fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Dec 8, 2016 |
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Dec 8, 2016 13:57
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nothing to seehere posted:What? How can you ever be stupid enough to say that? Drinking lots of mercury, would be my guess.
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Dec 9, 2016 00:26
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Mr Enderby posted:btw, A World Lit Only by Fire also claims that peasants didn't wear any clothes in the summer. Sounds like the author did a lot of drugs
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Dec 9, 2016 16:09
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Darkman Fanpage posted:Peasants working the fields in the nude isn't as far-fetched as you guys make it out to be. Clothes were expensive and a peasant might only have a few articles of clothing to their name so it wouldn't be a bad idea to just not wear them if you're doing something in warm part of the year. This was probably more common with the men folk, of course. I haven't read AWLOBF, so I don't know if the author actually has evidence for it or not, but you guys are acting like somebody at the bottom rung of society with nothing to lose by tilling his fields in the nude is out of the question. Nude working peasants sounds like one of those ideas you can only get if you have never done any honest work in your life. I mean, how removed do you have to be from normal life before writing this poo poo down unironically stops being weird?
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Dec 9, 2016 17:23
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OwlFancier posted:The title of my lecture today will be "Check out my sweet loving LP of Darkest Hour: Kasierreich." gently caress, I have a save half way through turning China into a Republic. I stopped just after beating up some rebels with mountain infantry. Sometime I should go back and continue saving China.
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Dec 9, 2016 19:38
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chitoryu12 posted:He said that "prosperous peasants" lived in a single room in a large building that also included the farm animals' pens and feed storage, and everyone in the family slept on a communal bed of vermin-filled straw and even had sex among everyone else. Travelers who stayed the night would be invited to sleep in the pile. This sounds more and more like this guy wanted to write about rats and just got terribly confused when putting his pen on paper. He must have been a medieval peasant
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Dec 10, 2016 10:56
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Pontius Pilate posted:Because of the experience with them in WWI was terrible enough that all the powers somehow stuck to not using them. Everybody had it on hand still, just in case... I've read the Wehrmacht finally used some chemical weapons during the mountain fighting in Italy, near the end of the war. But since no-one wanted to really use this poo poo, even the Nazis soon stopped using it again. Hitler himself got hurt by a gas attack in WWI and rumour has it this was the reason he was dead set against using it. Which makes the usage of poison gas on Jews kind of even more horrifying in hindsight...
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Dec 16, 2016 01:28
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spectralent posted:How much of that was related to the massive GDP percentage that went into the military? If they'd halved that, or whatever, would there have been better odds of a good outcome? Considering the massive problems the Soviet Union face in the 80s, the odds wouldn't have changed much. The agricultural sector was basically dead, for example: The Soviet Union could only feed its people with massive grain imports and the later you get into the 80s, the worse things get. I once talked to someone who got his IT-degree in the old Soviet Union and he had all these stories about massive corruption everywhere. Like one time he had to carry around some wine to bribe some local functionary for some IT-related issue. Then there was the story about the collapse of the cotton production in the eastern parts of the empire (the parts now called Kasachstan, Turkmenistan, etc.) and how the officials "dealt" with it by essentially making the trains run in circles to pretend there were multiple shippings of cotton instead of just the one. Meanwhile, the cotton rotted inside the trains. Another horror story about the end times of the Soviet Union comes from the book "Soviet Robots in Outer Space", a collaboration effort of people from both NASA and the Soviet Union (and later Russian Federation) space programs: When the last Mars probe from the last SU-exploration program was supposed to get finished, the engineers had to basically work without electricity for a while and a lot of stuff got outright stolen. Then this last launch failed and the program was dead. Like the SU at that point.
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Dec 20, 2016 18:56
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Fangz posted:For a significant number of people, the soviet system was a large improvement over what they had before. Which is incredibly depressing
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Dec 20, 2016 19:03
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david_a posted:I figure this is as good a place to ask as any since we're sort of on the subject - I have a chessboard that was made in Leningrad in the early 80s (it has an official looking sticker on the bottom that I can partially translate with phone apps). How did the Soviet economy work for mundane consumer goods like this in the 80s? Was there a commissar somewhere proclaiming "thou shalt make 2000 chessboards, comrades" to the factory or was it a bit more open? In the DDR it was literally like that, and it caused many problems in East Germany. One time the Stasi (Staatssicherheitsdienst, State Security Service) feared arcade videogames could be a threat and the country needed a proper, socialistic arcade to combat the capitalist games. So they let some poor saps work on the machine and on games in total secret, then walked into a industrial combine producing televisions and told the workers to now produce the new arcade machines. And when the time of reunification came closer, one of the last bosses of the East German republic thought to combat dissent by ordering more consumer goods to be produced. This was done by essentially giving every industrial combine a certain amount of consumer goods they now had to produce. In many cases this wreaked havoc with production. Like, we're talking combines manufacturing heavy-duty industrial machines now improvising bycicle shops level of stupid. poo poo like that happened all the time. From the actual Soviet Union I have mostly rumours, though. Libluini fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Dec 20, 2016 |
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Dec 20, 2016 21:25
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OfficialGBSCaliph posted:Soviet mechanical watches are insanely cool and you can get functioning, decent examples from the 1950s for less than $100. That's my Soviet consumer goods story. The Soviet Union als had these cool trinary mechanical computers during the 50s and 60s. Too bad they utterly trashed them for political reasons, for mechanical abominations they were kind of sweet. They also uh weren't consumer goods, my bad
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Dec 20, 2016 22:17
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Nenonen posted:DDR's radio, like so many other European broadcasters in the 1980's, sent BASIC programs at night via radio waves as digital buzz that listeners could record on a C-cassette and then load on their personal computer. This has always struck me as interesting, as DDR didn't seem like a place where computers were easily available. Our Eastern brethren used tons of improvisation and cheeky shenanigans to offset this. There were DYI-computers made from the cheapest parts available and said DDR radio also sent instructions for building them, helping a lot of people gaining some little bit of IT-knowledge. And also a working computer. Two of my favourite stories: -One of the most popular DDR bureau home computers could only be made because the industrial combine making it openly lied and claimed they were working on some vaguely related machine meant for Moscow. When they were finished, they just were like "Oops, looks like the thing you told us to make turned into a German PC. Our bad!" The machine turned out to be popular enough the affair was overlooked. -One Eastern German IT-engineer complained to his superiors that their new fake C64-computer couldn't be made because the chips produced by the DDR-industry were all garbage. Their solution? Telling him ominously to "visit his relatives in Frankfurt". He understood and "visited his relatives". While in the West, he bought an actual C64 and smuggled it back across the border. In his lab, the C64 was torn apart and analyzed and his chipset became the basis of a new, better generation of DDR computer chips.
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Dec 20, 2016 23:05
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Nebakenezzer posted:When the Imperial fleet spent that year in the Scapa Flow, orders frequently had to be passed by "sailor's committees" in order to be valid. Considering it was a bunch of people literally stuck aboard their ships for a year trying to fish and catch seagulls to supplement their meager rations, this probably was not all that bad. Don't forget when the ships finally scuttled themselves, the angry British marines (re-)capturing the German sailors afterwards gunned quite a number of them down when they tried to surrender. Monarchists 
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Dec 21, 2016 19:55
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Raenir Salazar posted:Star Trek until Enterprise and Star Trek Online seem to entirely lack ground forces. As a point of order, this is wrong: Star Trek Deep Space 9 had ground forces playing prominent roles. And DS9 had already ended before Enterprise even started. Biffmotron posted:The most realistic milSF about procurement is and always will be the short story "Superiority" by Arthur C Clarke, which is available on the first page of Google hits. Don't forget how at the very end he switches to stealth ships! The next metaphor on his list is clearly submarine warfare. Weber also has this weird hang-up where prototypes of stuff he likes work out well, while poo poo he hates (like the grav-lance and energy torpedos from the first book) are discarded even when they work out for "reasons". Case in point: In the first book Honor uses a grav lance to knock out the enemy's side shields and then blasts him apart with fast-firing salvoes of energy torpedoes. Then Weber explains that this victory was only possible because Honor got "lucky" enough to get close enough to use her prototype-weapons. (They're rather short-ranged). After the first book they are never mentioned again, apart from 1-2 sentences in passing about how bad it is to be too creative when designing weapons. Edit: To clarify, this always seemed really odd to me, so who cares if energy torpedoes are useless against shields and grav-lances have a short range? The grav-lance of a weak light cruiser neutralized the shield wall of a far larger ship and the energy torpedoes annihilated it in short order. Working on improving a grav-lances range seems to me like it could have changed space warfare far more then just more and better missiles. At least the new stealth-ships look like they could be finally the end of ludicrous macross missiles massacres, depending on how much Weber can resist overdoing his space politics. Libluini fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Dec 27, 2016 |
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Dec 27, 2016 01:58
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SlothfulCobra posted:I can't imagine the rebels going to high schools and passing out Exactly this happened in WWII with the Weiße Rose. School children passing out pamphlets against the Nazi government. They got their heads chopped off.
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Dec 28, 2016 13:48
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Rommel was always a complicit member of the party, and besides the inevitable sort of atrocities that in combat come up to, the Afrika Korps also turned a blind eye to Einsatzkommando activity and the destruction of the Libyan and Tunisian Jewish population. This reminds me, while I heard about the destruction of Europe's Jews over and over again in school, the destruction of Libyan and Tunisian Jews was never mentioned, not even in passing. Is there anything I can read about what happened to them? They aren't even mentioned in the WWII-documentaries I watched. (I wasn't even aware that there were enough Jews in North Africa to make sending Einsatzkommandos a worthwile activity for the Nazis.)
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Dec 30, 2016 01:51
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the JJ posted:I'll try to see what I can dig up. Part of it is that the Blackshirts et.al. didn't really make anti-semitism a big part of their ideology until Hitler they started sucking up to Hitler. That said, Libyan Jews were more at risk than Jews in Italy, for a couple of reasons. I'll try to find the article about it, but the author there had it pegged to a combination of things: Italian settlers (broadly) self-selected for fascist dickhole-ism, Italian colonial infrastructure was already set up in a way to divide colonist/colonized, racism (Libyan Jews looked North African, Italian Jews didn't?), more direct and sustained German influence, and the swingy back and forth nature of the front lines led to a bit of retaliation against local populations that had helped/celebrated when the Allies had the upper hand. Thanks! (Also I think you meant Mussolini sucking up to Hitler, not Hitler to Clone-Hitler. )PittTheElder posted:The part I'm always surprised at is that the collective memory of the holocaust is so centered on Jews. Granted they were the major targeted demographic (and about half the total killed I think?), but it's strange that you never really hear about how many political enemies, assorted Slavs, homosexuals, and other "undesirables" also got put to into the system. Now that at least I've avoided, since during the time I was in school, homosexuals, the mentally ill, political enemies and the Sinti and Roma all got mentioned many, many times. Sure, they were added as an afterthought after Jews, but they were mentioned as victims in our education. That, and people like the Weiße Rose getting executed for pamphlets, made always for an awfully strong taste of evil.
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Dec 30, 2016 16:26
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Cyrano4747 posted:This is very much a post-90s thing. I went to school throughout the 80s and 90s, so nope. Definitely not just a post-90s thing. At least not in Germany.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:09
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Cyrano4747 posted:Germany is WAAAAAY ahead of the curve when it comes to teaching people about the holocaust in public schools. Considering what I've heard about American education on SA makes me be genuinely surprised every time I learn they even have textbooks for something. I keep expecting American schools to still work with stone tablets.
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Dec 30, 2016 17:14
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