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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzmI3vAIhbE
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Aug 21, 2016 22:11
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| # ¿ May 12, 2024 22:33 |
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Polyakov posted:Would people be interested in 
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Aug 21, 2016 22:50
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Feral_Shofixti posted:Neigh. Poor old Catherine, thought of studs and died.
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Aug 22, 2016 00:36
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Eh, depends on the bar. e: vvvv Ah, there we go. That's an actually good example of this stuff. my dad fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Aug 22, 2016 |
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Aug 22, 2016 17:36
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V. Illych L. posted:it should also not be understated how much western industrialisation cost in terms of human suffering and extreme exploitation, though obviously those were much less intensive and also for a large part redirected to imperial subjects or what have you No joke. Highschool me was horrified beyond words when I read accounts of the English industrial revolution from the factory workers' perspective, and that of those who were out of work because of it.
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Aug 23, 2016 23:44
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P-Mack posted:The point I'm trying to make is that massive short term sacrifice in order to jump start industrialization is how the Great Leap Forward was promoted, a military style campaign in which the whole nation mobilizes and suffers to advance fifty years in five, but it didn't work. Peasants didn't give their lives so that glorious new factories could be built and China didn't become a superpower by 1970. They died digging worthless ditches because of pointless stupidity and when it was finally over they had less agricultural production and less industrial production than before they started. I don't think anyone here is disputing that?
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Aug 24, 2016 00:01
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I'm of the opinion that if either side thought they had a decisive advantage at that point, they would have pressed it, justifications be damned. 
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Aug 24, 2016 16:41
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Crazycryodude posted:(Quick, throw out something that has nothing to do with WWII so people will stop beating the Unthinkable horse!) So as a newcomer to the thread, would someone please explain to me what exactly the deal with windows is that seems to come up now and again when talking about early modern stuff? Something about shooting into windows? What's remarkable about this? If I remember right, one of the mercenaries Hey Gal studies had a habit of being drunk as gently caress and shooting a pistol out of the window before having dinner with his buddies. One day, the gun didn't fire. He tried to figure out what was wrong with the pistol while the muzzle was pointing at his best friend. Guess what happened next. That was just the start of that dude's recorded misadventures.
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Aug 24, 2016 16:48
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Ensign Expendable posted:Soldiers with gas masks are called elephants. That's kind of funny I guess. Didn't you mention a funny soldier explanation for what LaGG stands for in the previous thread?
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Aug 25, 2016 18:33
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goddamnit mugge
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Aug 26, 2016 01:25
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All this talk of Nazi economy reminds me of the Nazi use of slave labor, which reminds me of another WW2 family anecdote. One of my great-uncles was in a labor camp in Klagenfurt. Before the war, great-uncle was an apprentice to a Hungarian smith in Yugoslavia. (while industrialization kinda makes smiths useless, there was still plenty of need for one in rural areas) The smith was planning to let him inherit the trade, and waiting to see if things work out well enough between his daughter and great-uncle for them to marry, with the backup plan of adopting my great-uncle if this fails. WW2 interrupts everything, Yugoslav government signs the Tripartite Pact, only to get taken down a few days later by a combination of angry officers and angry population, and the Nazis are promptly told to gently caress off. Cue sudden Nazi invasion without a declaration of war and a campaign of bloody retribution against the populace. The smith found out that great-uncle was on the short-list for being sent to a concentration camp (I forgot which one exactly, but it was among the nastier ones), and pulled every connection he had, cashed in on every favor he was owed, bribed every man who needed bribing, and made up a bunch of bullshit about great-uncle's "racial" profile to have him reassigned to the relative safety of a labor camp jump across the border. Great-uncle was 17 at this point. The Hungarian smith was eventually executed by Hungarian fascists. No idea what exactly it was that pissed them off - I imagine he was eventually found guilty of being a decent human being in a world gone insane, and became yet another good man in an unmarked grave somewhere in Europe. I don't know what happened to his daughter, but my best guess would be that she suffered the same fate. Anyway, great-uncle ends up in the labor camp, and was often sent out to work his trade (or just provide manual labor) in the surrounding countryside. Due to the nature of his work and the very good recommendations he received from his boss, he was treated relatively humanely. (Note the 'relatively' here. He was still a slave laborer considered subhuman by his captors) As the war went on, more and more local men ended up being shipped off to the Eastern Front, and being a tall attractive young man (for reference, my father is 6'3'' and he tells me his uncle was taller than him) in an increasingly unmanned environment, great-uncle ended up in a frequent conundrum of "do I say yes, have some fun and maybe something extra to eat and a favor to call, and get shot if we get caught, or do I say no and get shot if she doesn't take no for an answer and puts me in a situation where it's her word over mine?" When my father retells what the uncle told him, it sounds like a bawdy tale, but when I asked him the details and how great-uncle was telling it, there's stuff implying that great-uncle didn't really enjoy recalling this, and that it was an extremely hosed up way to survive. Which makes sense, especially considering what the situation would be thought of as if the sexes were reversed. Still, I do have to wonder if I happen to have a bunch of Austrian cousins that I'll never meet. It wouldn't even be that much of an unusual situation, there have been cases of old Germans trying to discover their fathers in Serbia relatively recently. There was even a particularly heartwarming tale of a couple who were genuinely in love, spent years trying to find each-other, and the father was eventually identified by the German son tracking down the village his father was supposed to have come from and finding his mother's photograph framed in one of the houses. Anyway, great-uncle returned to our family's home village after the war, age 21, only to find out that everyone moved out. The whole family was given the right to a large house and land in Vojvodina thanks to his sister's wartime exploits (the great-aunt I mentioned a few times in the previous thread) and he booked a train to there. He ended up seated next to a skinny short girl with a strange sort of rugged charisma about her. Turns out, she was a survivor of the Stara Gradiška extermination camp, having escaped it in the middle of the winter and fleeing through the snow-covered forest half-naked and completely alone until she lucked into some people who sheltered her. With the war over, she had no idea about what to do with life. By the time the train arrived to its station, the hulk and the titch were head-over-heels in love, and ended up marrying not too long after that. With the rebuilding of Yugoslavia under way, there was plenty of work for a big-rear end smith and his tiny assistant. They had two daughters. 
my dad fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Aug 28, 2016 |
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Aug 28, 2016 05:05
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If you want a nightmare team of military commanders, just take the dream team and put Serbian king Milan in charge of it. 
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Aug 29, 2016 13:11
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Wasn't J.P.J. a pedophile?
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Aug 29, 2016 15:58
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So, I tried remembering where I heard this, until I eventually looked it up on Wikipedia (yeah, I know) and there's this passage: quote:In April 1789 Jones was arrested and accused of raping a 12-year-old girl named Katerina Goltzwart. But the Count de Segur, the French representative at the Russian court (and also Jones' last friend in the capital), conducted his own personal investigation into the matter and was able to convince Potëmkin that the girl had not been raped and that Jones had been accused by Prince de Nassau-Siegen for his own purposes; Jones, however, admitted to prosecutors that he had "often frolicked" with the girl "for a small cash payment," only denying that he had deprived her of her virginity. Is this just good old Wikipedia bullshit?
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Aug 29, 2016 19:43
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P-Mack posted:I'm impressed at Guan Yu's marketing team. Deified for a supporting role on the losing side and he's still going strong today. It's the beard that got deified. Guan Yu is just the human attached to it.
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Aug 29, 2016 20:40
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zzuupp posted:I'm still 2 pages behind, but THANKS for reminding me about this righteous dude. Which reminds me of one of my favorite chains of weird historical tidbits. When Alexander Suvorov was a kid, he was obsessed with literature about military and military history, but he was rather sickly and his father didn't want to allow him to persue a military career. One day, their neighbor, General Abram Petrovich Gannibal dropped by to have a chat with the kid after he heard Suvorov's dad complaining, and was so impressed that he ended up persuading the father to allow Alex to pursue his career of choice. Now, this Gannibal fellow, who was he?  *Ibrahim was born somewhere near Lake Chad to a local noble family (for a long time it was assumed he was born in Ethiopia, since "Ethiopia" was an 'eh, close enough' location used by Russians to refer to more-less everything Subsaharan African that wasn't a known colony of someone). As a small child he was kidnapped/taken hostage/enslaved (your preferred choice of words may vary) by the Ottomans and brought to Constantinople/Istanbul (your preferred choice of words may vary). There, he was noticed by a Serbian merchant, Sava Vladislavić Raguzinski, a diplomat/spy (your preferred choice of words may vary) in employ of Peter the Great, who rescued/ransomed/purchased (your preferred choice of words may vary) the child and brought him to Russia to introduce/present/gift (your preferred choice of words may vary) him to the Tzar. Peter the Great took a liking to the kid, and made him his godchild and a member of his household, from which point on Ibrahim was known as Abram (Russian version of Abraham-Ibrahim) Petrovich. The surname Gannibal (Hannibal) was something added later, during his military service in the French army. Abram followed Peter the Great on his military campaigns, and was eventually able to enroll in a French military academy, where he graduated as an artillery officer and took part in some French civil war (apologies for the lack of detail, my knowledge of the clusterfuck that is French history of the time is... poor, to say the least) Anyway, he not only survives but distinguishes himself, and eventually returns to Russia. A few years later, Peter the Great dies from bladder gangrene (yikes) and some bigwig Russian prince uses the opportunity to exile Gannibal 4000 miles away to MiddleOfNowhere, Siberia, due to not being able to stand seeing a *Blazing Saddles GONG sound* in court. A few years after that, someone wonders "Why the hell is one of our best military engineers over there and not over here?" and Gannibal is brought back to court. He goes up in rank to Major General, and eventually becomes the governor of a province in Russia, before retiring in an interesting reversal of traditional slavery depictions, a black landlord living in a manor and owning a bajillion Russian serfs. (seriously, look up Russian serfdom, it's kinda horrifying) He was very much a shining example of Russian nobility of the time, which is to say, a well-educated rich rear end in a top hat with a strong mysoginst streak who despised anyone below him. He had his first wife imprisoned for over a decade on account of infidelity (daughter too white), yet there's a preserved letter he sent to a fellow noble that boils down to "yo, bro, I knocked up one of my serfs, I'm handing her over to you since it's kinda awkward having her around"I'm kinda sad Pushkin's novel about his great-grandfather wasn't finished, as fictionalized as it was, since the topics it was supposed to explore include Gannibal's attempts to handle being seen both as an intellectual and a distinguished noble in the Tzar's service, and an exotic African curio to be gawked at and gossiped about by everyone else, as well as tackling some interesting interplay of class and race (paraphrasing a random Russian noble: 'He may be a black devil, but at least he's not a commoner') *(I'm using this statue as the image because I can at the very least be 100% certain that the statue is intended to depict him, regardless of the accuracy of the depiction. The internet suffers from a bad case of "hm... a picture of a black dude in European uniform, this must be a depiction of the particular black dude in Europe I'm talking about, surely there can't have been all that many of them, right?" ) A bit of a derail from military history, but continuing the chain, that Serbian fellow who brought him to Russia? The guy was a merchant-adventurer with a ridiculous amount of involvement in world affairs, and I'm kinda surprised by how little he is known back here. He took part in the battle of Poltava (I read once that he was the Russian quartermaster, but no idea if it's true), and between his roles as a diplomat, merchant, and spy, he founded the first Russian intelligence network abroad, he signed to concordat between the Vatican and the Russian Empire, had one of Vivaldi's operas, La veritŕ in cimento, dedicated to him, got stupid rich trading in Ukraine, took part in peace negotiations with the Ottoman Empire, was an important element in financial reforms in Russia, translated Mavro Orbini's "The Realms of Slavs", did undercover work in the Balkans, especially in Montenegro, was responsible for the Treaty of Kyahta between the Russian Empire and the Qing Empire - defining the borders and allowing trade between them, wrote secret reports on the state of the Ottoman and Qing empires, and wrote another treatise on Qing to the Russian court that boils down to "Don't go to war with China, you dumb fucks!", and even built a fortress on the Chinese border(Troitskosavsk), dude had one hell of a life.
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Aug 31, 2016 12:53
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HEY GAL posted:i'm the realms of slavs lol On a serious note, it's a very bad history book, but an extremely ideologically influential one.
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Aug 31, 2016 13:00
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gradenko_2000 posted:1. What was the size of the Danish Army in WW1? 1. too small 2. of course they did 3. a big enough caliber gun
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Sep 2, 2016 15:38
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A dude from Sarajevo wrote a moderately long "begginer's guide to war" post on FB, mostly as a warning to normal people/a "gently caress you" to politicians. It's been making rounds, and even got mentioned in a published article in a decent newspaper, here's some translated choice quotes: Don't worry, you don't have to get hit by a bullet or shrapnel to get killed. The pressure from an explosion can rupture your organs like tissue paper. Corpse exchange - always a fun one. Roll over 120 corpses to find your cousin's body. Nutritious value of margarine is lesser than its utility in boot maintenance. Better to go hungry than with frozen feet Turns out, blood fountain from a femoral artery rupture can reach up to half a meter in height while you're holding a hand on it and trying to get a hold on the poor dude's tongue with the other to stop him from choking on it from shock. Rat fever - You might get used to those annoying rats running around you, but your kidneys sure as hell won't. Shrapnel travels at speeds above 1km/s, at an irregular trajectory whilst rotating, has an irregular shape, what with being a multilayered chunk of exploded metal, is above 200 degrees celsius, and doesn't give a poo poo about your bones, tissues, arteries and veins getting in the way. Certain types of wood crack at -17C. You know this because you're on guard duty at the time. Telling your friend's family that he's dead is always fun, especially when you bring some meds to help them deal with it, but realize it's pointless because they can see you walking down the street and know there's exactly one reason you're all there and he's not. Apologies if it's not a suitable post for the thread. e: almost forgot this one: You have about ten seconds to use something to prevent pneumotorax after getting shot. On the bright side, you can do it with cigar box cellophane! my dad fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Sep 4, 2016 |
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Sep 4, 2016 19:20
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Maggots. Because having your legs blown enough somehow isn't bad enough.
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Sep 5, 2016 01:08
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Koramei posted:was there ever a codpiece mounted gun? Watch "From Dusk Till Dawn"
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Sep 5, 2016 16:12
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It's a cool visual effect. e: actually nevermind, this question has nothing to do with history
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Sep 6, 2016 13:26
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ArchangeI posted:Until you have so many soldiers you outstrip the land's ability to feed them and lose your army. But wining twice and losing once is still a net win I guess. MatthiasGallasTheDestroyerOfArmies.txt
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Sep 7, 2016 16:41
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Holy poo poo, loophole 14... 
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Sep 7, 2016 19:52
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It always comes back to (and out of) windows in the end, doesn't it?
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Sep 7, 2016 22:23
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Splode posted:It's been a recurring thing in Trin's ww1 blog. Loophole 14 is on the italian/austrian front, and provides the observer an incredibly good view of the austrian position. However, it's being watched by an Austrian sniper at all times. You skipped the best part. Once the general left, the soldiers brought a coin to the loophole, and as soon as it reflected sunlight, it was shot.
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Sep 8, 2016 10:49
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Sharpe. Right clicking on the image and selecting "search Google for image" would have even given you the name of the character in the picture as the first result.
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Sep 9, 2016 04:55
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Well, it'd be confusing them with the Dorians, for one.
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Sep 9, 2016 20:20
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Pellisworth posted:I can take some pictures if you or anyone is interested.
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Sep 9, 2016 20:56
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Elyv posted:Literally Hannibal post-Cannae. (proto) Nationalism is a hell of a drug.
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Sep 19, 2016 01:53
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cheerfullydrab posted:If Soviet tank production in the late war was a flower, and German tank production in the early war was also a flower, would a bouquet composed of just these two flowers, half and half, clash or compliment each other? Well, it'd make a fine arrangement for a funeral at the very least.
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Sep 20, 2016 12:21
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P-Mack posted:The math and theory I get, it's the actually implementing it all mechanically that blows my mind.
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Sep 20, 2016 20:29
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:Edit: ahahahaha there's a 54 page abomb thread. The op is the c&p'd text of a salon article. Holy gently caress. link?
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Sep 21, 2016 10:47
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anakha posted:Not sure if this has already been asked, but here goes: I'll go a bit further back in time and offer this: Battle of Myeongnyang 13 Korean ships vs at least 120 Japanese. 0 Korean ships lost compared to at least 30 Japanese.
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Sep 23, 2016 14:26
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Ensign Expendable posted:TFR got me into World of Tanks which directed me down the path of Russian archives and butthurt wehraboos. How often do you run into the Soviet or Allied equivalent of wehraboos? Like, people who are so incredibly into a myth about some Soviet tank's/ship's/weapon's quality that they go frothing at the mouth at the mere mention of one of its flaws? Patrick Spens posted:The middle east thread is good (most of the time anyways). I unbookmarked it after reading one too many "genocide is OK if it's being done to people I don't like" post for my sanity to endure. So I'll have to disagree. my dad fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Sep 25, 2016 |
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Sep 25, 2016 19:01
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Patrick Spens posted:That was the brackets, yeah. No, the brackets imply that this is something that rarely happens, while in actuality it permeates almost every page of that thread. Polyakov posted:I'm still not over the Royal Navy being introduced after both the KM and the Soviet navy in world of warships. I loved the KM cruiser line while I was still playing World of Warships more than anything else except maybe that slow-rear end low-tier US carrier. Not very good, mind you, the amazing AP doesn't make up for the paper-thin armor, but the playstyle is really drat fun, especially if you get in the zone and just keep landing citadel shots on the enemy.
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Sep 25, 2016 19:23
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I wanted to stay out of this conversation because I find it more interesting to hear what other people have to say on the topic, and my view is not exactly objective, but I'm going to have to react here: One, Alexander was assassinated alongside the French foreign minister over the whole "unifying the nations of Europe against Nazi expansionism" thingie by a fascist terrorist, and Paul did not continue with Alexander's policies. Not exactly something he can be lauded for or seen as a 'neutral' figure in. Speaking of the assassination, it was actually caught on camera. Two, it was less of a case of the Croats* being pissed, and more of a powerful group in Croatian politics being power-hungry assholes. When WW1 ended, the population of Serbia was massively reduced by Austro-Hungarian massacres, and the war in general took a heavy toll on the adult male population in addition to that, which greatly reduced Serbia's ability to administrate the transition of formerly imperial lands to a Yugoslav state in a way that wasn't a total shitshow. As a result, it was seen as a lesser evil to let assholes who owed their power to imperial politics remain in power after the war than to sack and replace the existing administration. In fact, Austro-Hungarian officers were given promotions after the war in an effort to placate them resulting in the paradox of Croats who fought for Yugoslavia ending up in a worse position after the war than those who sat on their fat high-ranked asses rounding up their people to be shipped off to die on the Italian front or doing the paperwork for "pacifying" Serbian population. It was people like these alongside the Catholic church who pushed for the more extreme nationalist policies regarding Croatia, it was these people who provided cushy conservative support to the Ustaše ideology without which it might not have taken hold nearly as much as it did, and it was these people who cheered the Nazi invasion and ordered the men under their command to lay down their arms instead of fighting, causing the complete collapse of the Yugoslav army as the Nazis exploited this. There's the whole clusterfuck about Alexander's policies I talked about in the previous thread, but regarding this particular topic, it's completely irrelevant, since those problems weren't what these people were solving, quite the opposite, in fact. When you say that the solution worked wonderfully for Croatia, you are implying that a Croatia ran by the people I described in the post above would be something good. In addition to that, it's implying that this Croatia was magically 'ethnically pure' enough to somehow magically start working. Let me give you a hint: it wasn't. My family didn't just appear there out of thin air for the Ustaše to kill. I don't doubt for a second that Churchill wouldn't mind seeing every single last one of us being thrown being thrown into a fascist death camp's crematorium if he saw it as something that is in some miniscule way improving Britain's position, and British support of the coup in Yugoslavia is an action that is very much along the lines of this. But your scenario assumes that Yugoslavia remains in some sort of stasis for the duration of the war. Do you expect the communists to do nothing after Hitler invaded USSR? Do you expect that fascists wouldn't leverage their position somehow within the country to improve their hold of power within it? The war was an absolute disaster for Yugoslavia, doubly so for Serbs and Romani (and triply so for Jews) and there's many ways in which that disaster could have been reduced, but one needs to pretty badly piecemeal decisions taken by the people involved to reach your conclusions. I'm just sick and tired of hearing people justify silent support of fascim (via doing nothing about it) as just going along with the flow. Yeah, there's a flow alright, of bullshit, and it reeks. *In general, every time I see a statement starting with "The Serbs" or "The Croats" or "The <insert group here>" in the context of a conversation like this one, I get a bad feeling about the followup, and am usually justified in that opinion my dad fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Sep 26, 2016 |
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Sep 26, 2016 14:25
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It wasn't going to stop the bloodshed, and it had the side effect of pissing everyone else off, including a lot of Croats who weren't nationalist, conservative, and/or clerical.
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Sep 26, 2016 14:58
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cheerfullydrab posted:Do you at least see where it might have seemed like a good idea from the single mindset of "keep Yugoslavia together, keep everything in one piece and as stable as possible"? Yes. And, as I said in my post about Alexander, what he intended, how he went about accomplishing it, and what he achieved in the end are very, very different things. And you're vastly overestimating my symphathy for members of the jolly good old oxbridge boys club. JcDent posted:For my part, I'm extremely ashamed for everything that RCC did in the relation to the matter Eh. I appreciate the sentiment, but it's not like you are to blame, despite your religion. Should I go all j'accuse at, say, Libluini for being German? Or Trin for being English?
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Sep 26, 2016 15:29
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Cyrano4747 posted:Are you a puppet master if you're jerking your own strings? He's jerking something of his own, but I don't think it's strings.
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Sep 29, 2016 21:30
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