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WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Here is a video from a youtube dude who knows his poo poo and is not lindybeige, that is on the subject of weight loads for soldiers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FB0goDq38Q

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WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Cyrano4747 posted:

Does it also add to the rigidity of it at all? I know if you flute some things you can alter how they bend and generally how strong they are.

It can yes, some swords made for thrusting are extremely rigid, and have weird near triangular cross sections. They used all different kinds of fullers to do what they wanted, sometimes its just to reduce weight, other ties to make it more rigid, sometimes just for decoration.

This is just a random picture I found on google, but it shows an example of the variety of ways sword blades were made.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

TerminalSaint posted:

Thanks to their accuracy and range they also found effective use providing cover for river crossings, and sniping defenders during sieges.

They also used them like Owl said, in massed batteries so they could rain big heavy arrows down on formations. It really does not help morale to see your buddies getting shot through their shield from so far away you cannot return fire.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

americong posted:

Is there any kind of constant answer to "how do you defeat an insurgency"?

Obviously it's tough and expensive, but what has (even distantly historically) done the trick?

genocide

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

HEY GAL posted:

flares and grenade launchers are a thing. i do not know about rockets yet

Didn't the Mongols use rudimentary rockets that they brought over from China? I have never looked into it but I assumed they were being used by the 1600s

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Cythereal posted:

The US actually had a plan for this immediately after WW1: War Plan Red, codifying existing thoughts and plans into one unified strategic plan. The American plan was simple: invade Canada, use the navy to protect the coasts and interdict British reinforcements, and don't strike elsewhere.

The British plans were ship troops to Canada, invade the Philippines, and attack American shipping around the world, making opportunistic raids against the American mainland as possible.

Setting this during WW1 makes Britain's situation that much harder due to how thinly the British Empire was already stretched both militarily and economically. The British Empire had its hands very full already and American entry into the war against Britain would probably have resulted in general defeat for the UK, even if America wasn't explicitly aligned with the Central Powers.

Contingency plans like this are always fascinating to read, and I have to think they are pretty fun to actually work on.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

bewbies posted:

They are in fact unbelievably tedious and painful.

Like, imagine the most obnoxious alt-hist discussion we have in this thread, and then populate it with a bunch of blowhards who are deliberately no longer constrained by either reality or what is even a reasonable possibility.

thats better than my day job

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Whatever Sabaton owns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epeQwq-aYV0

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

SquadronROE posted:

I'm finally reading Master and Commander again, it's such a good book.

One question that I have: He writes about the guns on the Sophie but mentions some of them are brass. I'm assuming most of the guns were iron and only a couple were brass?

Is there any particular reason a brass cannon would work better than an iron one in the early 1800s?

Are you sure he is talking about brass or bronze?

Cast bronze is stronger than cast iron, so depending on the size of the gun and the pressures it needs to contain, bronze is an easier and cheaper way to make the same object, up until you reach the point bronze cannot contain the relative pressures.

This is why gunmetal, a high zinc bronze, was used in guns for a long rear end time.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

i should have said steel, not iron, leaving it there. you are 100% right iron is cheaper than bronze.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

TerminalSaint posted:

Sometimes sling bullets had dongs on them.






Not much has changed

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Plan Z posted:

I've seen people using them on Youtube in stuff, but it still never gave me the idea of the power, but this helps a bit more. I remember seeing a few battle stories where they were effective against cavalry since a loving-fast rock did have uses against a person precariously balanced on a moving animal that frightens relatively easily.

Here is a Roman dude talking about removing sling bullets, this should give you all of the info you need to grasp how powerful they were. They were heavy bullets of lead that hit very hard. They were also scary in a different way then massed arrow fire, as you could not see them coming and raise your shield at them.

Celsus:De Medicina posted:

"There is a third kind of missile which at times has to be extracted such as a lead ball or a pebble, or such like, which has penetrated the skin and become fixed within unbroken. In all such cases the wound should be laid open freely, and the retained object pulled out by forceps the way it entered. But some difficulty is added in the case of any injury in which a missile has become fixed in bone, or in a joint between the ends of two bones. When in a bone, the missile is swayed until the place which grips the point yields, after which it is extracted by the hand, or by forceps; this is the method also used in extracting teeth. In this way the missile nearly always comes out, but if it resists, it can be dislodged by striking it with some instrument. The last resort when it cannot be pulled out, is to bore into the bone with a trepan close by the missile, and from that hole to cut away the bone in the shape of the letter V, so that the lines of the letter which diverge to either side face the missile; after that it is necessarily loosened and easily removed. If the missile has forced its way actually into a joint between the ends of two bones, the limbs above and below are encircled by bandages or straps, by means of which they are pulled in opposite directions, so that the sinews are put on the stretch; the space between the ends of the bone is widened by these extensions, so that the missile is without difficulty withdrawn. In doing this care must be taken, as mentioned elsewhere, to avoid injury to a sinew, vein or artery while the weapon is being extracted by the same method which was described above."

And here is a reenactor dude demonstrating it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aaq0KzvX_E4

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

HEY GAL posted:

winged hussars were heavy cav, i thought
the armor-and-pistols set

yeah, they used a big rear end lance and then had pistols and swords for backup.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Argus Zant posted:

it was a fluff entry in ME1, yeah. I think it wasn't even about their ground tactics specifically; it was about the Alliance's overall war strategy (attack unguarded rear areas, disrupt logistical support) and how it compared to the Turians (Decisive Battle, overwhelming force) and the Salarians (espionage and sabotage)

Yeah, the basic idea is they use Deep Battle on offense, and the theorized Roman Defense in Depth strategy on defense. The Fleet hangs back by warp gates and the colonies only have tiny garrisons whose main job is just to report an attack, and then the fleet masses and arrives with overwhelming force to retake the territory.

And yeah, it really sucked that they wrote all this stuff out and then went "whoo hoo star wars!!!!"

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

BF1 is a really really really good battlefield game, and thankfully multiplayer is not a simulation but instead pulls every experimental gun around in 1918 and doles them out so you can have a fun game in the setting. It also does a pretty good job of creating situations analogous to reality. just yesterday me and my friends spent 5 minutes defending a capture point while hunkering in a trench, getting shelled and gassed, and fighting in close with shotguns and melee weapons as the attackers stormed the trench.

I would hazard to guess it will also spur far more actual interest in WW1 among young people as the single player is intended to at least somewhat depict reality

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/790476192444846080/pu/vid/314x180/dl6p-WfrVAjpwyU7.mp4

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

StashAugustine posted:

is the SP not poo poo cause I tried BF3 SP once and it was an awful mistake

I have not played it yet for the same reasons as you, but my friends who are normally decently levelheaded about games said it was pretty good, like one of the better CoD single players.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Cyrano4747 posted:

New definition of damning with faint praise here.

some were abhorrent, some were a decent 6 hours and have a couple good moments.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Back in the 1800s they also did not sharpen officer's swords until they actually went on campaign. It makes sense since every time you sharpen a blade you are degrading it, so only sharpen it if you really need it.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

ATTN HEY GAL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beOgmCxeh7A

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

HEY GAL posted:

tfw you use raw numbers instead of per capita deaths

per capita WWII still is in like the top 3, the sheer amount of death was unreal

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Tias posted:

not as creepy as it was for the people leaving it, I'd wager :sigh:

There are houses that share a fence with Auschwitz that were built in like 1945. People immediately moved to reclaim the land and thumb their nose at it. i imagine there was a similar sentiment in China.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

xthetenth posted:

How is that bar that short, the 30yw alone should beat it.

its in millions, there simply were not that many people to kill in europe in the 1600s

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

I'm sure 95% of the thread has seen this, but its too topical not to repost for those who are unaware of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwKPFT-RioU

Edited for a higher quality video

WoodrowSkillson fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Nov 16, 2016

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Cyrano4747 posted:

How the ever loving gently caress does he think trade happened?

Oh wait, I'm guessing contrary to all historical and archaeological evidence he assumes that trade just ended and people never met someone from outside their hamlet.

Or that the village priest had never either visited Rome or been taught by someone who had visited Rome.

What he's describing would be laughable in a loving post-apocalyptic novel.

Its so antithetical to everything we keep learning about how interconnected past societies were. The fact that most people never leave home is meaningless, as that is still true today. Most people do not move a significant distance from home. They still are aware of the greater world, and still likely traveled to neighboring villages and towns, and if they ended up in an army, potentially quite a long way from home.

Also that viking buddha is dope and I love seeing poo poo like that.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

aphid_licker posted:

I remember mucking the elephant stables at me grampa's farm.

I only know this kind of ground plan:



People and loose animals sleeping mixed together in the same room would be physically dangerous - farm animals are large, dumb, panicky, and kind of dicks - and pretty, uh, lovely.

A peasant waking up in a pile of manure and finding that the pig had eaten their baby and also a dozen panicking cows stepped on them and them just going "welp, that's Tuesday" would admittedly fit the general picture that writer was going for pretty well.

e: come to think of it I have read a scene in And Quiet Flows the Don where the viewpoint cossack family keeps a calf in the family living space but no reason is given and the scene is kinda played for laughs.

But how would they know its Tuesday?

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Ainsley McTree posted:

I will never not laugh at a windows joke in this thread

agreed, Hey Gal, is it somehow possible to link your original description of the window shooting incident.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

KildarX posted:

How does a force like isil maintain any sort of armored presence? Don't MBTs require a crap ton of specialized maintenance and resources or they kinda just fall apart?

think of them as motorized guns and not MBTs. its a big, hard to destroy emplaced gun that can be moved somewhat easily. they do not use them in attacks much.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Carcer posted:

I'd argue that javelins hurt exactly the same as when you're wearing normal, unarmored clothing as that text suggests. (Unless I'm terribly mistaken and the armor is either implied or mentioned elsewhere.)

Clothing can stop a lot more than you might think, especially incidental cuts and wounds. A javelin might slide off your cloak, or slice it a bit and miss your skin, whereas if you were barechested it might leave a nice cut that now makes it hard to use your swordarm. There are stories of the heavy wool greatcoats the russians wore in the crimean war stopping sword thrusts. it would make sense that naked warriors would really not like a situation where a lot of sharp and pointed objects are flying around and bouncing off shields at weird angles

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Guys i heard it costs 800k to refresh this page

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Eej posted:

Thanks for the responses, I wasn't really expecting to hear that Poland had a decent shot, I was just wondering because EE's article implies that someone in the USSR back then thought that Poland could put up a fight (or needed an excuse to make tanks to FILL IN THE TANK GAP).

Anyway, while I'm here and catching up on the thread has anyone read Shigeru Mizuki's Showa: A History of Japan? I've read a few snippets of his manga on his experiences in the war and I'm wondering if all those books are just as interesting.

The Polish army could have put up a fight in a one front war, maaaaaaaybe long enough to get the western allies involved, but there next to no chance of them winning, and that becomes a certainty with Molotov-Ribbentrop.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

JcDent posted:

Infantry sniping with ATGMs is a tried and true tactics in the power plant level in Batllefield play4free.

Take that, you sniper piece of poo poo

SRAW Sniping is one of my favorite bf4 pastimes.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

ulmont posted:

So Weltraumskavallerie?

plz post your space german merc story

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Perestroika posted:

Personally I'm just sad that Lorica Squamata never seemed to have caught on in a big way. It's so pretty!



The problem is if you get stabbed in an upward motion, it can just slide under a scale and into you. Obviously depending the specific method of construction and padding.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

zoux posted:

From what I understand from the thread, it's weird hatted funny accented guys getting murdered by the Russians all the way down.

unless its the mongols, than its the opposite

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Fangz posted:

"Irritation of the eyes, burning sensation in the throat, coughing and vomiting" seems pretty hard to confuse with "increased respiration, headache and lethargy".

right, but lets say you do not know those are the symptoms. all you know is its bad and makes you feel terrible and kill you.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Koramei posted:

Those dumb Mongols not using shields, this must be why they always did so badly in battles.

They did use shields sometimes, the primary reason they did not was because they were archers and its a pain in the rear end to deal with a big shield on horseback and also use your bow. They did use lancers as well and I think those guys used shields decently often.



you can see the dude with the spear has a shield, but everyone else does not, so he went into that fight knowing his job and did not bring his bow.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Ferrosol posted:

I'm not an expert on Japan far from it but I assume it has something to do with the generally poor quality of Japanese iron ore. When you've only got so much decent iron to go around a shield is a secondary priority. Again guessing that since the samurai started off as mounted archers and remained so for a big chunk of their history shields don't do you much good in a mounted archery duel. Also there's the interesting theory I read somewhere that Japanese sword styles evolved from spear fighting so a two-handed sword was considered to be a must have for cultural and traditional reasons. Or it could be a combination of all of the above. Still i'd appreciate it if a goon who knows what they're talking about can give you something more than my idle speculation.

Here is a video by a giant nerd on the topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2GcZWl1XGA

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

It's not being a Wheraboo to acknowledge they did some stuff well. They conquered a big chunk of the world and fought a losing war for years. The Wheraboo poo poo is the whitewashing of the Whermacht's role in the Holocaust, acting like Rommel was some upstanding guy, etc.

WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

spectralent posted:

:drat:

I read about how Polish "charges" on tanks were actually a defensive measure because most tanks had lovely turret traverse and if you could get behind the hull you were basically safe, but that sounds like one of those back-justifying things to explain myths.

Polish cavalry were essentially dragoons. Horses can go a lot of places cars can't, and very fast. The Poles were not charging tanks with cavalry as a strategy

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WoodrowSkillson
Feb 24, 2005

*Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Hazzard posted:

On a lighter note, we found RPG players in WW2.



3 MP40s and 2 MG42s. Is this souvenir collecting or were these getting picked so they could be used?

I would imagine they did not want MG42's firing and confusing people during an engagement, but I think the MP40s were used when captured unless I am misremembering something.

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