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Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye


In addition for using these for training, the Germans were so hard up for aerial transport that many captured B-17s/B-24s ended up serving as such, alongside Junkers Ju 252s and Ju 290s.

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Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Alchenar posted:

My recollection (and wikipedia's assertion) is that this actually became a big thing when the Soviets reverse-engineered the B29 into the Tu4, because the B29's materials were all measured in Imperial units and the Soviets used metric - they struggled to get a conversion that a factory could use.

It's interesting to consider how an essentially arbitrary way of thinking - how do we assign value to a unit of distance? - has fundamental implications like this in the real world.

The Smithsonian aviation magazine did an article on the creation of the Tu-4; by itself, successfully reverse engineering the world's most complex warplane was quite a engineering feat. Stalin initially wanted a totally accurate reproduction, but Tupelov gently pointed out that with all Soviet factories using metric, the Tu-4 was going to have to be built in metric as well - unless Stalin wanted to invest in completely bespoke imperial machine tools.

The Soviets had wanted a B-29 really, really badly before one landed at Vladivostok. At one point during Lend-lease, they gave the Americans their latest request for aircraft. Buried in the long list of P-39s and A-26s was a request for one (1) Boeing B-29 Superfortress.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

ArchangeI posted:

That makes me wonder: Can anyone talk about how Lend-Lease was actually handled at an organizational level? Did the US government decide what to send based on what they decided they didn't need but could be useful for others? Could other states just send in a wish list like it was Christmas and Uncle Sam might bring a nice country its very own Sherman 76mm? Was there a shopping catalogue? Was there a system of value, so that you could get B-25s OR Shermans, OR a few B-25s and a handful of M3 Stuarts? Who decided what went where?

It's a good question. Actually, another question about this, since you brought it up, is "was the poo poo sent to the Soviets actually lend-lease?" I know lend-lease to the UK was sent on a "here's the stuff; just pay us whenever" basis.

E:

P-Mack posted:

The strong post what they wish and the weak read what they must.

Nebakenezzer fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Aug 3, 2016

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

P-Mack posted:

The strong post what they wish and the weak read what they must.

“Those who want to post, let them fight, and those who do not want to post in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live.”

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Suspect Bucket posted:

Okay, tried to photograph grandpa's scrapbook, but it got put away somewhere. In the mean time, have a souvenir he made for himself of his service.




(click for big)

Looks like he just bought a model kit of a Balao in 1973 and modified it a bit and made a plaque, but still cool.

That's an old Revell kit, the USS Lionfish. It is still available today. It's a extremely odd scale (Revell made its old ship models to a certain box size rather than standard scales) and scorned by fancy modellists because it's not modern in its detailing, but you can still get it.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Suspect Bucket posted:

That is awesome to know! Thank you very much. Some of the parts are looking a bit tatty, it's great to know that they're replaceable. The paint is crackling and flaking in spots, and the diving planes are stuck in place, I was hoping to restore it.

No problem! You can always join us in the scale model thread if you need any help/hints/arguments as to the proper shade of grey used by the USN in 1944.

It's ~*Basalt*~ grey, BTW

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Jobbo_Fett posted:

I'm always up to talking about planes. May not have a lot on Japanese Air Force tactics, unfortunately.

OK, here's a question about planes. Namely, the Kawanishi H8K 'Emily' flying boat. I know little about the H8K, but for some reason whenever I see a blurb about it, it's described as "one of the best flying boats of the war." Do you know why this is? Because it looks like a Japanese Sunderland to me.

e: wow, the H8K's engines have like double the output of the Sunderland

e2: And it's a third faster, and it has more than double the range - WTF?

Nebakenezzer fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Aug 5, 2016

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

lenoon posted:

Inter-War British Foreign Policy Part 3: 1931-35
the ...urgh... "National Labour" Government

Thanks for this. I basically did a spit take when I learned that Britain's first labor prime minister 1) endorsed hardcore austerity and then 2) managed to stay prime minister by making a coalition government with everybody but his own party. Like certain recent events, it's like a surrealist is riffing on politicals.

lenoon posted:

By 1935, Ramsay is on the way out. His health is rapidly declining and his speeches in Parliament are becoming literally incomprehensible. Pressure, and age, have rendered him very vulnerable – but he's still pretty much ideologically pushing for demilitarisation. This is the absolute perfect time to go to Italy and try bring Mussolini on board.

Now I've heard that Ramsay had mental health problems; do you know what kind? I'm just curious, as before a certain era these problems are described extraordinary vaguely, if at all, and I think it's important to hear a diagnosis.

Jobbo_Fett posted:

The Kawanishi H8K "Emily"

And thank you for this! I now think that "best flying boat" claim has merit. Honestly, had it been remotely possible/feasible, the Germans should have been importing those things. I can add a little to your analysis: the Sunderland, while good in may ways, definitely had flaws. The first was that it wasn't as powerful as it should have been; Mk.I-III were modestly powered by "in the thick of it" WW2 standards. A bigger flaw was their lack of feather-able propellers, which made dead engines a danger. (The dead engines would cause huge drag, to the point that the engine might rip itself off of the wing, possibly hitting the tail on its way out and wrecking the plane.) The third flaw was its defensive armament: while it was better than many pre-war RAF aircraft, it still was not heavy enough. To schnoor in on the ballistic discussion for a second, the Sunderland used .303 brownings in its turrets, only using .50s in its 'waist' positions. Once it all kicked off, upgrading the guns to all .50 cals would have been a cheap and useful upgrade that of course didn't happen, so credit to the Japanese there for going in for cannon right off the bat. Oh, here's something: you've probably heard that German pilots nicknamed the Short Sunderland the flying Porcupine? That appears to be a myth. I have a AIRPLANE! or similar magazine that did a special issue just on the Short Sunderland, and it contents this was something said by British Propaganda in 1940; there's no actual evidence the Germans actually did this. Everybody's just been repeating the flying porcupine thing ever since.

The Mk. IV Sunderland managed to fix all these flaws - new engines, slingin' .50s - but by the time they first flew, Short had the V variant already on the way, and the IV was judged too little an improvement over the Mk. III. The Mk. V used the Twin Wasps the B-24s used, but didn't arrive until 1945, though they would see extensive post-war service. Lots of Mk. IIIs would later be upgraded to Mk. Vs.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

HEY GAL posted:

is that...good?

If you define "good" as having the heaviest armored vehicle ever deployed, hell yeah, eat poo poo Jadgtiger

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Didn't know about the non-featherable props, which is quite surprising considering, like you said, the increased drag. That flying porcupine bit is intriguing, do you have a link? I've never heard of it being a myth and it would be neat dispelling that.

Unfortunately, I don't. Have some images from where I got it from, though: Aeroplane: Icons: Short Sunderland





In the series they also cover the Fairey Swordfish :v:

Phanatic posted:

And what happened to the electrostatic armor? Outer plate charged up to some fuckoff voltage, a dielectric, and a grounded inner plate, when the HEAT jet bridges the gap you get a big current pulse through it that breaks it up. There've been live-fire tests where it appears to work pretty well, but I guess it never went anywah?

It's a good question; Gordon Freeman needs to know

HEY GAL posted:

you guys wanted to know what (middle class and up)(civilian)(dutch) beds would have looked like in the period, right?
http://www.sandragulland.com/a-treasury-of-information-on-daily-life-in-17th-century-holland/
of course you do

Not enough sleep! Ug, so unhealthy

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

It sounds a bit too neat too be true. Why would swarms of flies care that a stinky human was among them?

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

HEY GAL posted:

hello friends
tias, were you wondering about :stare: harmonious proportions?
there are extremely harmonious proportions behind this link, click here
[url]http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Mk-_nR7XtHAJ:https://www.asu.cas.cz/~had/val/val...2JKuPgAbMjLTQDQ[/url]

Thank god they don't depict Uranus :haw:

[quote]
"To which a snake-dragon is harnessed"
[/url]

So, if you have sculptures of classical gods/goddesses in your Estate, is that sorta like statues of superheroes or something? Really anally placed superheroes

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Trin Tragula posted:

Maximilian Mugge is now thinking he might as well be sent up the line, if his skill with languages isn't actually going to be used.

For a smart bloke he hasn't learned much

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Splode posted:

It's been awhile since I did the class at uni that briefly touched on it, but the exhaust pipe does have an impact on the performance of the engine. I'm not sure if they cared in 1916, but it's not completely impossible that putting on a reasonably long pipe would've reduced the tanks engine power when it was already fairly slow. Probably wrong on this, hopefully an AI regular can elaborate. Also an exhaust pipe is just begging for a grenade, perhaps the designers figured the soldiers wouldn't be in the tank too long and could cope rather than add a weak spot to the tank.

Exhaust back pressure robs you of some power, like having a muffler. It's why WW2 aircraft exhaust manifolds are just pipes that run from the cylinders to the outside :getin:

Still, I don't think that's a very good reason not to have an exhaust pipe; In a military application like this you just could have made the exhaust manifold a big straight pipe to the outside. If you are worried about grenades, as some kinks to said pipe, or have many small ones. When the engine is on and especially applying power, the exhaust pressure alone (let alone the immense heat) would make shoving a grenade up its exhaust pipe suicidal anyway. My reading of the whole thing is that the people building the Mk. I just didn't have enough experience to know what a inherently lovely idea "no exhaust pipe" was.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Ensign Expendable posted:

Frontline experience. The Ferdinand was expected to be a hell of a lot more common than it ended up being. I don't know when/if the GRU discovered that production was very limited, but the IS-4 was envisioned as an anti-Ferdinand tank.

OK, EE, please correct me if I'm wrong on this. The Ferdinand had a loony toons hybrid drive system (gasoline/electric for those that don't know) because Prof. Porsche was obsessed with the idea of very large tanks, and once you get so big you actually have to use the hybrid system? Porsche was right, BTW, the tracked vehicle thing that moves the space shuttle uses engines generating electricity to drive the treads, and those crazy huge coal miner things use the same system (though conveniently they don't need an engine; they just plug themselves in via a gigantic power cable.)

PS> I know I've already said it in this thread, but I love how people latched onto the idea of super-mega-tanks the instant they came up with the idea of tanks

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Ensign Expendable posted:

You don't *have* to, but it helps. The advantage of driving your tank with an electric motor is that you can simply adjust the value of a resistor to change how much current goes to the final drive. No clumsy gearboxes or discrete gears, only nice smooth continuous luxury. The downside of this is you have to use two tons of copper per tank, which is all sorts of unacceptable, especially at wartime when you can't even get enough nickel for your armour.

Oh yeah, no argument there. I'm asking was he doing these dumb, impractical things now in the hope of having useful experience when it came time to make the Maus, the Ratte, Ein Terrier (a even more super colossal war machine that I just made up) etc. Or did he do it because he thought the ideal drive train for a tank from a engineering perspective was the hybrid, as you didn't need a mashugana transmission anymore?

HEY GAL posted:

for the past few years i've been really into things that are less flashy/sexy, more workaday, utilitarian, or durable. dashing cavalry charge: no, digging a trench in the right place: yes. so this post pushed that button. tank good?

I might be able to help; what's less flashy: flying boats or Torpedo bomber biplanes?

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

This was just posted in the Cold War thread:

Captain von Trapp posted:



This is neither air power nor cold war, but when I happened to see it on the Wikipedia main page today I thought the thread would enjoy the history of the Swedish warship Vasa. She was a new kind of flagship, armed to the teeth and decorated decorated to the gills. Her maiden voyage was on 10 August 1628. A little over one kilometer into that voyage, she encountered a breeze, tipped over, and promptly sank. Wikipedia's description of the subsequent inquiry is the fun part:

quote:

The Council sent a letter to the king the day after the loss, telling him of the sinking, but it took over two weeks to reach him in Poland. "Imprudence and negligence" must have been the cause, he wrote angrily in his reply, demanding in no uncertain terms that the guilty parties be punished.[28] Captain Söfring Hansson, who survived the disaster, was immediately taken for questioning. Under initial interrogation, he swore that the guns had been properly secured and that the crew was sober. A full inquest before a tribunal of members of the Privy Council and Admiralty took place at the Royal Palace on 5 September 1628. Each of the surviving officers was questioned as was the supervising shipwright and a number of expert witnesses. Also present at the inquest was the Admiral of the Realm, Carl Carlsson Gyllenhielm. The object of the inquest was as much or more to find a scapegoat as to find out why the ship had sunk. Whoever the committee might find guilty for the fiasco would face a severe penalty.[28]

Surviving crew members were questioned one by one about the handling of the ship at the time of the disaster. Was it rigged properly for the wind? Was the crew sober? Was the ballast properly stowed? Were the guns properly secured? However, no one was prepared to take the blame. Crewmen and contractors formed two camps; each tried to blame the other, and everyone swore he had done his duty without fault and it was during the inquest that the details of the stability demonstration were revealed.[29]

Next, attention was directed to the shipbuilders. "Why did you build the ship so narrow, so badly and without enough bottom that it capsized?" the prosecutor asked the shipwright Jacobsson.[30] Jacobsson stated that he built the ship as directed by Henrik Hybertsson (long since dead and buried), who in turn had followed the specification approved by the king. Jacobsson had in fact widened the ship by 1 foot 5 inches (c. 42 cm) after taking over responsibility for the construction, but construction of the ship was too far advanced to allow further widening.[30]

In the end, no guilty party could be found. The answer Arendt de Groote gave when asked by the court why the ship sank was "Only God knows". Gustavus Adolphus had approved all measurements and armaments, and the ship was built according to the instructions and loaded with the number of guns specified. In the end, no one was punished or found guilty for negligence, and the blame effectively fell on Henrik Hybertsson.[31]

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Ensign Expendable posted:

Not just a box tank, a box tank with rivets. It took ages to get into production, but even in 1942 the British were already comfortable with casting and welding, so it's very weird why they'd put out such an archaic design.

I've heard some aspersions cast about that British heavy metal manufacturing was frequently hamstrung by union rules, to the point that the workers making the tanks thought that the very concepts of casting and welding was some sort of fiendish capitalist attempt to unemploy riveters. I'm not sure if this is more smack talk by conservative historians eager to poo poo on unions, but I've heard it in several places. That Canadian book on the battle of the Atlantic I just read mentioned that increasing ship production in Britain was more or less impossible, once again because of archaic union rules.

Arquinsiel posted:

I should probably effortpost on British tank designs sometime, you can see a lot of incremental improvements with some false starts along the way and a general trend between the Tank, Cruiser, Mk I (A9) and the Challenger II.

You definitely should! This is a subject I don't know much about.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

feedmegin posted:

Hmm. My granddad was a welder's mate in World War 2 (and manned AA guns in his free time), so it's certainly not like the concept was unknown. Granted, he was building ships not tanks. In general I'd be very surprised if 'union rules' would be an issue for something like that in wartime, both because patriotism on the part of the workers and because the government wouldn't gently caress around with unions disrupting the war effort.

I know, if WW2 America can employ black women in shipbuilding, you'd think some sort of British office could sort this out. I mention it just because I've come across little remarks like this for years now.

Maybe...some tanks had rivets because they needed production right now drat ye and decided not to bother with retooling? I don't know how plausible that is.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

What Mr. Owl Fancier said. My additional two cents would be I think the MBT was also the result of something else: having the goddamn time to perform the RnD on a tank that would remain useful for a decade at least. Once you get deep into World War 2, the planning horizon is "better than the other guy's".

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Ensign Expendable posted:

It could have been worse.




E100?

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye


What the gently caress is this? It looks like some sort of dual flintlock shotgun.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

LostCosmonaut posted:

People are horribly bad at understanding military history and equipment in general, the other day I had somebody online tell me that the Pak 44 was equivalent to the M256.

For those of you who aren't modern military equipment spergs, this is what an M256 is stuck on;



Hoooly poo poo, that's dumb. Hey guys, the Spitfire had eight guns while the F-15 has just one :jerkbag:

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

hogmartin posted:

I'm guessing "no, I do not like to pretend I am dead" was the correct answer in that case. I kind of wonder about who exactly that kind of test weeds out.

"I will do everything in my power to sell secrets and then drive a bus full of kindergarteners off a bridge"
- strongly agree
- agree
- neither agree nor disagree
- disagree
- strongly disagree

Is there someone who really wants to do treasonous and immoral poo poo but has a personal code that keeps him from lying about it on a Scantron form?

I'm not sure if this is the same ballpark, or even the same sport, but they give similar tests when applying for low-wage jobs with big organizations. The tests are not really there to catch people who plan to be lazy or devious; it's to catch the people who plan that and don't have the intelligence/social awareness to lie about it.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

bewbies posted:

Is there a useful measure of how much a medieval castle cost in modern terms? Cathedrals too, for that matter. They seem to me like they must've been projects on the order of the Hoover dam or the international space station or something

I don't think you're wrong, but medieval economies being what they were, I think these projects were way, way more expensive than either of those relative to the society that built them. Like "half these three counties' GDP went into constructing this castle" expensive.

So, did the Hungarian Castles pay off in the end? I know the Mongols got no further than Hungry...(I apologize if I start asking really basic questions about the Mongols, they've been on my mind for some reason lately.)

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

HEY GAL posted:

actually i think almost everyone i study was a better person than nixon and everyone who hung out with him

metternich, kemper boyd, any thoughts?

I HAVE THOUGHTS

Nixon was a strange dude. He had some pretty significant mental health problems while in office; like I think he thought more often than not that political opposition to his plans was not driven by, y'know, what people thought of his plans, but rather because they hated him, personally. For no reason other than he was Richard Nixon. I think he was actually a genius on one or two axies; namely his understanding of politics and international relations, but he seemed to only really understand the dark side of people. Without an understanding of the good side of people, he navigated the two aforementioned fields pretty well, but without the balance that comes from understanding the good side of people, he'd make decisions that would ultimately cause him to, er, resign in disgrace. He also was pathological about presenting an image to other people. Because he was paranoid and unable to really like himself, he put a lot of energy into keeping up a front of what he thought people wanted to see. This went both for his public image, and even managing immediate subordinates with talk he didn't really believe in. The result was that he was manipulative with pretty much everybody.

poo poo what was my point

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

SeanBeansShako posted:

Big armies equal bigger logistical headaches, invading huge land masses that are notorius for having stretches of barren steppes and wasteland does not help this. Insert that quote from Princess Bride here.

Y'know Douglas MacArthur told JFK and Johnson "never start a land war in Asia"?

I read it in a book by Lee Iaccoca TF it must be true

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Disinterested posted:

So, I said I would post about the book I was reading and have been quoting from here and there. The book is Operation Typhoon: Hitler’s March On Moscow, October 1941, written in 2013 by David Stahel. Stahel is an AUS/NZ Historian. He has also written about Barbarossa and the Campaign to take Ukraine in early 41, and he’s writing presently about Nov.-Dec. 1941. He’s a self-proclaimed Glantz follower, and Glantz appears to like his work.

This is a good post, thank you.

Disinterested posted:

Almost all the panzer and motorised units could not repair their own vehicles and frequently abandoned their vehicles to preserve their pool of fuel in order to continue offensive operations. By late October the 600,000 trucks that the Germans had for Typhoon was reduced to approximately 70,000, and the number of horses declined similarly.

Holy poo poo. I know you go on to talk about Panzer Divisions with 20 tanks remaining but the loss of all those trucks should have been a huge sign things were very bad

Disinterested posted:

There were other associated psychological phenomena, particularly this concept of ‘will’: people who complained too much about logistical issues or the need for their men to rest for coming fighting were regarded as defeatist (inasmuch as victory was assumed to be imminent) and also insufficiently lacking the will to victory: ‘will’ is taken to be capable of overcoming any obstacle or difficulty, and people who grumbled about difficulties or realities on the ground were regarded as lacking this crucial quality.

Strength of will being magically causal is I think a major factor as to why fascism went down in World War 2. Of course, it's still with us: when faced with questions on how to rebuild Iraq the free market became the magic word that bridged any and all difficulties.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

lenoon posted:

Why wouldn't war literature be appropriate? Views of war, cultural understandings of war etc etc are as much a part of military history as talking about the width of a bullet or the thickness of a tiger's glacis plate.

Gentlemen! Fighting in the military history thread? This is nether the time nor the place

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

HEY GAL posted:

is it as good as this thing?


Memento mori with death's head of Wallenstein, ivory, wood, and stones from his tomb, Science Museum, London
http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/broughttolife/objects/display?id=92948

The design is obviously superior (not a high bar) but yeah, that's something out of the Bradford Exchange

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Run from the Imperial Cavalry and you'll just die tired

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

HEY GAL posted:

justus lipsius if you want something more theoretical (it's not even about armies at all, it's about controlling your emotions in a time when the world sucks. and everyone read it.)

Is this the author or the title?

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

The thing about psychological problems in military history is how ignored a problem it was. When Twin Tringula is writing about dudes who are clearly shattered psychologically and some aristocrat officers walk by and are all "this is cowardice, I think, and malingering" my heart breaks a little.

I mean I know this is pretty much how it is today in the military, but still

Also: do you want to build a really mean* diorama?! I have the link for you: http://www.italeri.com/scheda.asp?idProdotto=2492

*IE "cruel and heartless", not "good", though I guess it could also be a mean diorama, IE a good one

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Polyakov posted:

This catastrophe for Germany greatly informed its policy after WW1, having lost the naval struggle with Britain it turned again to being a land power and its desire for Lebensraum in the East, they wanted the great grain producing plains of western Russia and Ukraine to give security in food, indeed in the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk you can see that the CP occupied the large grain fields of Ukraine.



Hitler was to write after the first world war that Germanys trade rivalry with Britain had provoked the war, it was foolish to contest Britain at sea and Germany should focus on a continental empire, any war against Britain would need Russian food and other supplies, and any war with Russia would need British neutrality in order to not impede German access to international markets for the very same supplies, this thinking would contribute to the Nazi ideology of Lebensraum and eventually the Second World War.

A good post, thanks.

I've a question: I've read that Nazi Germany actually did learn something from World War 1: that if wars were going to be fought successfully, then Germany was going to have to become self-sufficient in food. This proved a popular plank in the Nazi Platform for rural voters, who felt increasingly marginalized in industrial Germany - and the Nazis actually managed to achieve the self-sufficiency goal before World War 1 even started. As a result, even the worst times of food scarcity in WW2 [and after] in Germany where nowhere near as bad as it had been in World War 1. Is this true?

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

It taking forty tons of potatoes to make enough industrial alcohol for one V-2 wasn't much of a help, I bet

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

HEY GAL posted:

but that's not what you prepare for, you prepare for the worst-case scenario whether or not it'll actually happen

One thing I've learned about the Nazis (I suspect this applies to all fascist powers) is that they were cockeyed optimists, through and through. I know we've talked before about racial superiority or strength of will being a magical force that fills all gaps and solves all problems, and maybe when you are carrying around that in your intellectual toolkit you end up being very optimistic? Maybe if you think one Aryan soldier is literally worth 1000 Slavic untermenchen attacking the Soviet Union sorta makes sense. Another thing that burned up any caution the Nazis had was the astonishing succsess they had early war. Basically they had succeeded beyond even their wildest dreams, and that sorta thing goes to your head.

Later, the Nazis had problems facing reality, as to do that would be to admit that the war was in some sense unwinnable, or that mistakes had been made. I know Hitler, upon being told how many aircraft were going to be needed to defend Reich airspace given Allied production said

quote:

"It's absolute nonsense,” Hitler shouted. “If the figures of 5000 a month were right, you would be right too. In that case, I would have to withdraw from Eastern Front forthwith, and apply all resources to air defense. But they are not right! I will not stand for such nonsense.”

Basically the sunk costs fallacy.

Kemper Boyd posted:

Rommel's problem wasn't as much the lack of port capacity but this:

- His supply could be intercepted, which happened a lot
- He didn't have the logistics to actually get stuff to the front. The US could afford to burn (fictional example) ten gallons of gas for every gallon that gets to the front, but Rommel couldn't afford that.

Rommel was a excellent battlefield commander, but despite his repeated victories, he never had the forces necessary to actually take Egypt. I think he was allowed to do whatever he wanted because the Nazis liked victories?

It did lead to Hitler sending (and losing) 250K worth of troops in Tunisia in 1943, so at least it really hurt the Nazis in the long run.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

e: ^^ true dat

HEY GAL posted:

you just need to hire a guy to follow him around and go 'but what if you're wrong' every minute of every day. like a roman triumph.

Sadly, Yamamoto was a dude who understood the big strategic picture - that Japan was starting a fight it couldn't win in the long run - which is why he decided on high risk strategies in order to win. I don't really know about the views of Japanese admirals and generals aside from him, but essentially he was the only one with that nagging voice built in.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Jobbo_Fett posted:

As for Rommel, iirc, he became well known after "Ghost Division" made important gains in France. Coupled with his performance in World War 1, he was seen as a good propaganda tool. He would've probably been captured in Africa had he not been sick from stress/work.

Dude suffered from depression, didn't he? I think he might have been fighting the sadbrains when the second battle of El Alamein happened.

Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

Cythereal posted:

For all his faults, Yamamoto was very innovative and is one of the big men to think of for transforming the aircraft carrier from a curiosity into a serious weapon of war. Certainly it took the Americans with their mammoth industrial capacity and vastly superior (and less literally murderous) organization and leadership to fully mature the carrier division into its modern incarnation, but as long as someone's around to rein him in I think Yamamoto is one of the premier guys for carriers in history.

Yamamoto also was behind the invention of strategic submarines, which although have not fought in any wars, they are the cornerstone of nuclear deterrence today.

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Nebakenezzer
Sep 13, 2005

The Mote in God's Eye

HEY GAL posted:

Athena Lied Hector Died

Helen of Troy was a 8.5 at best, didn't even score one mega-Monroe!!
Click to SEE

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